[release planning] GRASS GIS 7.8.0 with Python3 support

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[release planning] GRASS GIS 7.8.0 with Python3 support

Markus Neteler
Hi all,

the world is eagerly waiting to see the first GRASS GIS 7.8.0 with
Python3 support. In my view we need to focus on that and release
early.

I have drafted a roadmap [1]:

- Proposal of release: 7 Jan 2019
- Creation of release branch: 24 Jan 2019
- RC1: 1 Feb 2019
- RC2: 7 Feb 2019 - if needed
- Final release: ~14 Feb 2019

This may appear close but we have no other choice than publishing 7.8.0 asap.

Essential is the creation of the required release branch. Naturally as
much as possible needs to be tested _before_ that, please see
https://trac.osgeo.org/grass/wiki/Python3Support#Howtotest

Any comments?

Markus

[1] https://trac.osgeo.org/grass/milestone/7.8.0

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Re: [release planning] GRASS GIS 7.8.0 with Python3 support

Martin Landa
Hi,

po 7. 1. 2019 v 11:41 odesílatel Markus Neteler <[hidden email]> napsal:
> - Proposal of release: 7 Jan 2019
> - Creation of release branch: 24 Jan 2019
> - RC1: 1 Feb 2019
> - RC2: 7 Feb 2019 - if needed
> - Final release: ~14 Feb 2019

I am afraid that more realistic release date for 7.8 version is
~May/June 2019. Python3 support is not fully done (Anna will know
more). We don't have Windows builds for testing yet. It also doesn't
make sense to me to release 7.6 in January and 7.8 in February. If we
want to release Python3-ready GRASS version so early we could
integrate it to upcoming version 7.6.

Martin

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Re: [release planning] GRASS GIS 7.8.0 with Python3 support

Markus Neteler
On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 11:48 AM Martin Landa <[hidden email]> wrote:

> po 7. 1. 2019 v 11:41 odesílatel Markus Neteler <[hidden email]> napsal:
> > - Proposal of release: 7 Jan 2019
> > - Creation of release branch: 24 Jan 2019
> > - RC1: 1 Feb 2019
> > - RC2: 7 Feb 2019 - if needed
> > - Final release: ~14 Feb 2019
>
> I am afraid that more realistic release date for 7.8 version is
> ~May/June 2019. Python3 support is not fully done (Anna will know
> more). We don't have Windows builds for testing yet. It also doesn't
> make sense to me to release 7.6 in January and 7.8 in February.

Personally I would have rather skipped 7.6 but of course that is not possible.

> If we
> want to release Python3-ready GRASS version so early we could
> integrate it to upcoming version 7.6.

If that's doable, fine for me.

Markus
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Re: [release planning] GRASS GIS 7.8.0 with Python3 support

Maris Nartiss
pirmd., 2019. g. 7. janv., plkst. 12:51 — lietotājs Markus Neteler
(<[hidden email]>) rakstīja:
>
> On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 11:48 AM Martin Landa <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > po 7. 1. 2019 v 11:41 odesílatel Markus Neteler <[hidden email]> napsal:
> > > - Proposal of release: 7 Jan 2019
> > > - Creation of release branch: 24 Jan 2019
> > > - RC1: 1 Feb 2019
> > > - RC2: 7 Feb 2019 - if needed
> > > - Final release: ~14 Feb 2019
This really does not seem to be realistic.

> > I am afraid that more realistic release date for 7.8 version is
> > ~May/June 2019. Python3 support is not fully done (Anna will know
> > more). We don't have Windows builds for testing yet. It also doesn't
> > make sense to me to release 7.6 in January and 7.8 in February.
>
> Personally I would have rather skipped 7.6 but of course that is not possible.
I fail to see why. Is there any major distro dropping 2.7 support now?
If not, then lets better iron out all issues arising from transition
to 3.

> Markus
Māris.
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Re: [release planning] GRASS GIS 7.8.0 with Python3 support

Markus Neteler
On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 2:10 PM Maris Nartiss <[hidden email]> wrote:
> pirmd., 2019. g. 7. janv., plkst. 12:51 — lietotājs Markus Neteler
> > On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 11:48 AM Martin Landa <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > po 7. 1. 2019 v 11:41 odesílatel Markus Neteler <[hidden email]> napsal:
> > > > - Proposal of release: 7 Jan 2019
> > > > - Creation of release branch: 24 Jan 2019
> > > > - RC1: 1 Feb 2019
> > > > - RC2: 7 Feb 2019 - if needed
> > > > - Final release: ~14 Feb 2019
> This really does not seem to be realistic.

Agreed - it was meant to be a bit provocative :-)

> > > I am afraid that more realistic release date for 7.8 version is
> > > ~May/June 2019. Python3 support is not fully done (Anna will know
> > > more). We don't have Windows builds for testing yet. It also doesn't
> > > make sense to me to release 7.6 in January and 7.8 in February.
> >
> > Personally I would have rather skipped 7.6 but of course that is not possible.
>
> I fail to see why. Is there any major distro dropping 2.7 support now?

Yes, soon, e.g.

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Mass_Python_2_Package_Removal
.. at time scheduled for the next major release, F30.

Other distros I was not checking. Essentially it is a matter of
relatively short time since Python 2.7 will retire in... (as of now):
0Years 11Months 24Days 3Hours 34Minutes - https://pythonclock.org/

> If not, then lets better iron out all issues arising from transition to 3.

Yes, here in mundialis we start to switch. For sure it would be much
easier with a 7.8-release-branch.

Markus
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Re: [release planning] GRASS GIS 7.8.0 with Python3 support

Helmut Kudrnovsky
In reply to this post by Maris Nartiss
>If not, then lets better iron out all issues arising from transition
>to 3.

winGRASS7.7.svn (standalone and OSGeo4W) already switched to python3, see:

https://trac.osgeo.org/grass/ticket/3719

first issues already popped up, see:

https://trac.osgeo.org/grass/ticket/3723

more testing welcome.



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Re: [release planning] GRASS GIS 7.8.0 with Python3 support

Veronica Andreo
In reply to this post by Markus Neteler
El lun., 7 ene. 2019 a las 11:51, Markus Neteler (<[hidden email]>) escribió:
On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 11:48 AM Martin Landa <[hidden email]> wrote:
> po 7. 1. 2019 v 11:41 odesílatel Markus Neteler <[hidden email]> napsal:
> > - Proposal of release: 7 Jan 2019
> > - Creation of release branch: 24 Jan 2019
> > - RC1: 1 Feb 2019
> > - RC2: 7 Feb 2019 - if needed
> > - Final release: ~14 Feb 2019
>
> I am afraid that more realistic release date for 7.8 version is
> ~May/June 2019. Python3 support is not fully done (Anna will know
> more).
 
I've been mostly testing the temporal modules and many of them fail [0] as well as many of the temporal tests [1] (dunno if the latter is related to python3 though).
IMHO, this is one of the parts that might require more work and testing. I regret I do not know how to answer Anna here: https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/grass-dev/2019-January/090879.html
 
We don't have Windows builds for testing yet. It also doesn't
> make sense to me to release 7.6 in January and 7.8 in February.

Personally I would have rather skipped 7.6 but of course that is not possible.

> If we
> want to release Python3-ready GRASS version so early we could
> integrate it to upcoming version 7.6.

please don't break the temporal framework in 76

Vero


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Re: [release planning] GRASS GIS 7.8.0 with Python3 support

Helmut Kudrnovsky
Veronica Andreo wrote
>>
>> > If we
>> > want to release Python3-ready GRASS version so early we could
>> > integrate it to upcoming version 7.6.
>>
>
> please don't break the temporal framework in 76

I'm supportive to keep 76 in a productive state

Markus Neteler:
>> If not, then lets better iron out all issues arising from transition to
>> 3.
>
>Yes, here in mundialis we start to switch. For sure it would be much
>easier with a 7.8-release-branch.

+1





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Re: [release planning] GRASS GIS 7.8.0 with Python3 support

Laurent C.
In reply to this post by Veronica Andreo


Le mar. 8 janv. 2019 à 00:44, Veronica Andreo <[hidden email]> a écrit :
El lun., 7 ene. 2019 a las 11:51, Markus Neteler (<[hidden email]>) escribió:
On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 11:48 AM Martin Landa <[hidden email]> wrote:
> po 7. 1. 2019 v 11:41 odesílatel Markus Neteler <[hidden email]> napsal:
> > - Proposal of release: 7 Jan 2019
> > - Creation of release branch: 24 Jan 2019
> > - RC1: 1 Feb 2019
> > - RC2: 7 Feb 2019 - if needed
> > - Final release: ~14 Feb 2019
>
> I am afraid that more realistic release date for 7.8 version is
> ~May/June 2019. Python3 support is not fully done (Anna will know
> more).
 
I've been mostly testing the temporal modules and many of them fail [0] as well as many of the temporal tests [1] (dunno if the latter is related to python3 though).
IMHO, this is one of the parts that might require more work and testing. I regret I do not know how to answer Anna here: https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/grass-dev/2019-January/090879.html
 
We don't have Windows builds for testing yet. It also doesn't
> make sense to me to release 7.6 in January and 7.8 in February.

Personally I would have rather skipped 7.6 but of course that is not possible.

> If we
> want to release Python3-ready GRASS version so early we could
> integrate it to upcoming version 7.6.

please don't break the temporal framework in 76

Vero


I believe that only a major release could be allowed to break a previously working functionality. It would be very confusing to have a code that work on one version stops working after a minor version bump.
I my humble opinion it would be contrary to semver that GRASS mostly follows.

Laurent
 

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Re: [release planning] GRASS GIS 7.8.0 with Python3 support

Maris Nartiss
trešd., 2019. g. 9. janv., plkst. 14:18 — lietotājs Laurent C.
(<[hidden email]>) rakstīja:
>
> I believe that only a major release could be allowed to break a previously working functionality. It would be very confusing to have a code that work on one version stops working after a minor version bump.
> I my humble opinion it would be contrary to semver that GRASS mostly follows.
Too late. Python is already broken (I had to fix my scripts;
previously working tests are now broken). Do not expect your 7.2/7.4
Python scripts to work with 7.6/7.8 without modifications (depends on
functionality in use).

Still – it is not so bad – some Python parts never have been working
correctly anyway ;-)
> Laurent
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Re: [release planning] GRASS GIS 7.8.0 with Python3 support

wenzeslaus


On Wed, Jan 9, 2019 at 10:01 AM Maris Nartiss <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> trešd., 2019. g. 9. janv., plkst. 14:18 — lietotājs Laurent C.
> (<[hidden email]>) rakstīja:
> >
> > I believe that only a major release could be allowed to break a previously working functionality. It would be very confusing to have a code that work on one version stops working after a minor version bump.
> > I my humble opinion it would be contrary to semver that GRASS mostly follows.
> Too late. Python is already broken (I had to fix my scripts;
> previously working tests are now broken). Do not expect your 7.2/7.4
> Python scripts to work with 7.6/7.8 without modifications (depends on
> functionality in use).

What was broken? If really some migration is needed, please collect that at some wiki page (I'm not sure which wiki is more suitable here).
 

>
>
> Still – it is not so bad – some Python parts never have been working
> correctly anyway ;-)
> > Laurent
> Māris.
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Re: [release planning] GRASS GIS 7.8.0 with Python3 support

Markus Neteler
In reply to this post by Maris Nartiss
On Wed, Jan 9, 2019 at 4:01 PM Maris Nartiss <[hidden email]> wrote:
...
> Too late. Python is already broken (I had to fix my scripts;
> previously working tests are now broken). Do not expect your 7.2/7.4
> Python scripts to work with 7.6/7.8 without modifications (depends on
> functionality in use).

This is weird. Can you elaborate?

> Still – it is not so bad – some Python parts never have been working
> correctly anyway ;-)

Please open ticket(s) if you want to see it fixed.

Markus
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Re: [release planning] GRASS GIS 7.8.0 with Python3 support

Maris Nartiss
trešd., 2019. g. 9. janv., plkst. 18:47 — lietotājs Markus Neteler
(<[hidden email]>) rakstīja:
>
> On Wed, Jan 9, 2019 at 4:01 PM Maris Nartiss <[hidden email]> wrote:
> ...
> > Too late. Python is already broken (I had to fix my scripts;
> > previously working tests are now broken). Do not expect your 7.2/7.4
> > Python scripts to work with 7.6/7.8 without modifications (depends on
> > functionality in use).
>
> This is weird. Can you elaborate?
Unfortunately I just fixed my code and moved on (as transitioning to
Python 3 has to be done). But here are two examples from the top of my
head:
https://trac.osgeo.org/grass/ticket/3707
grass.script.parse now returns unicode strings, previously – byte
strings (too lazy to search for a specific revision when it was
introduced). Took a while to understand why calls to an external
library started to fail.

> > Still – it is not so bad – some Python parts never have been working
> > correctly anyway ;-)
>
> Please open ticket(s) if you want to see it fixed.
This is really tricky as for many aspects of GRASS Python code there
are no working examples in the GRASS source or add-ons and thus it is
hard to understand if it is broken or just "I'm holding it the wrong
way" ;-)
I'll try to come up with a test case for raster.history, as it is one
of things I can not get working at the moment.

> Markus
Māris.
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Re: [release planning] GRASS GIS 7.8.0 with Python3 support

Anna Petrášová


On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 7:08 AM Maris Nartiss <[hidden email]> wrote:
trešd., 2019. g. 9. janv., plkst. 18:47 — lietotājs Markus Neteler
(<[hidden email]>) rakstīja:
>
> On Wed, Jan 9, 2019 at 4:01 PM Maris Nartiss <[hidden email]> wrote:
> ...
> > Too late. Python is already broken (I had to fix my scripts;
> > previously working tests are now broken). Do not expect your 7.2/7.4
> > Python scripts to work with 7.6/7.8 without modifications (depends on
> > functionality in use).
>
> This is weird. Can you elaborate?
Unfortunately I just fixed my code and moved on (as transitioning to
Python 3 has to be done). But here are two examples from the top of my
head:
https://trac.osgeo.org/grass/ticket/3707
grass.script.parse now returns unicode strings, previously – byte
strings (too lazy to search for a specific revision when it was
introduced). Took a while to understand why calls to an external
library started to fail.

All the recent Python3 changes are in 7.8 only. Pietro did some Python 3 changes early on (not sure which version), unfortunately these were not clearly communicated. In general, all Python API functions should now (since 7.8) return unicode (for both Python 2 and 3), because that's what users would expect with python 3.

It's hard to know exactly how much work is still needed, because tests cover just part of the codebase. GUI is mostly working, some issues might come up for less used components, but these are mostly easy to fix, some of the issues are due to the switch to wxPython 4 (wxPython 3 doesn't support Python3). Python components with ctypes need more work. PyGRASS is getting there, tests should be mostly running (not doctests), but there is more work with temporal framework. Add-ons will probably need some small adjustments, but I haven't looked at that. Of course, I am testing only linux now.

Anna

> > Still – it is not so bad – some Python parts never have been working
> > correctly anyway ;-)
>
> Please open ticket(s) if you want to see it fixed.
This is really tricky as for many aspects of GRASS Python code there
are no working examples in the GRASS source or add-ons and thus it is
hard to understand if it is broken or just "I'm holding it the wrong
way" ;-)
I'll try to come up with a test case for raster.history, as it is one
of things I can not get working at the moment.

> Markus
Māris.
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Re: [release planning] GRASS GIS 7.8.0 with Python3 support

Markus Neteler
Hi devs,

currently sitting next to Martin, we updated our roadmap (also keeping
the QGIS releases in mind [1] and the next OSGeoLive release):

Time schedule:
https://trac.osgeo.org/grass/milestone/7.8.0

- Proposal of release: 4 Feb 2019 (OSGeo birthday, btw!)
- Creation of release branch: 11 Feb 2019
- RC1: 11 Mar 2019
- RC2: 24 Mar 2019
- RC3: if needed
- Final release: 1 Apr 2019 (tentatively)

For sure an "intensive" plan but we need to move forward. Time to
retire Python-2!
... and if bugs discovered, we can quickly release 7.8.1 etc.

[1] https://www.qgis.org/en/site/getinvolved/development/roadmap.html#release-schedule

Cheers
Markus and Martin
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Re: [release planning] GRASS GIS 7.8.0 with Python3 support

Helmut Kudrnovsky
>Time schedule:
>https://trac.osgeo.org/grass/milestone/7.8.0
>
>- Proposal of release: 4 Feb 2019 (OSGeo birthday, btw!)
>- Creation of release branch: 11 Feb 2019
>- RC1: 11 Mar 2019
>- RC2: 24 Mar 2019
>- RC3: if needed
>- Final release: 1 Apr 2019 (tentatively)
>
>For sure an "intensive" plan but we need to move forward. Time to
>retire Python-2!
>... and if bugs discovered, we can quickly release 7.8.1 etc.

looks as an ambitious timeplan, but looks good

+1



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Re: [release planning] GRASS GIS 7.8.0 with Python3 support

Markus Neteler
In reply to this post by Markus Neteler
On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 5:31 PM Markus Neteler <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi devs,
>
> currently sitting next to Martin, we updated our roadmap (also keeping
> the QGIS releases in mind [1] and the next OSGeoLive release):
>
> Time schedule:
> https://trac.osgeo.org/grass/milestone/7.8.0
>
> - Proposal of release: 4 Feb 2019 (OSGeo birthday, btw!)
> - Creation of release branch: 11 Feb 2019
> - RC1: 11 Mar 2019
> - RC2: 24 Mar 2019
> - RC3: if needed
> - Final release: 1 Apr 2019 (tentatively)

Here an update, trying to keep above release plan:

We (esp Carmen, Anika and me) are using trunk in a big project in
mundialis in which we have completely migrated to Python-3 only.
It is all running in the cloud, hence no wxGUI involved. We certainly
only use a fraction of all the commands but for sure important ones
along with several image processing related addons.
Summary: it works :-)

In order to ease wider testing, Carmen created a Python-3-only docker
image with PDAL included as a goodie (we use it as part of our
multi-layered docker images):

https://github.com/mundialis/grass-py3-pdal

I just added usage instructions there. You can install it in parallel
and use it for testing.
Please try it out for further testing of GRASS GIS with Python-3!

> [1] https://www.qgis.org/en/site/getinvolved/development/roadmap.html#release-schedule

Cheers
Markus

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Re: [release planning] GRASS GIS 7.8.0 with Python3 support

Martin Landa
Hi,

ne 3. 3. 2019 v 19:27 odesílatel Markus Neteler <[hidden email]> napsal:
> > - Creation of release branch: 11 Feb 2019
> Please try it out for further testing of GRASS GIS with Python-3!

my +1 for creating 7.8 releasebranch. It's a first step which can be
done ASAP. Ma

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Re: [release planning] GRASS GIS 7.8.0 with Python3 support

Martin Landa
Hi,

ne 3. 3. 2019 v 19:33 odesílatel Martin Landa <[hidden email]> napsal:
> my +1 for creating 7.8 releasebranch. It's a first step which can be
> done ASAP. Ma

based on original plan:

"""
* Proposal of release: 4 Feb 2019
* Soft freeze of release branch: 11 Feb 2019
* RC1: 11 Mar 2019
* RC2: 24 Mar 2019
* RC3: if needed
* Final release: 1 Apr 2019
"""

an updated plan below :-)

"""
* Proposal of release: 1 Apr 2019
* Soft freeze of release branch: 8 Apr 2019
* RC1: 6 May 2019
* RC2: 20 May 2019
* RC3: if needed
* Final release: 27 May 2019
"""

A new branch should be created between April 1 and 8. Make sense to you?

Thanks, Ma

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Re: [release planning] GRASS GIS 7.8.0 with Python3 support

Moritz Lennert
On 1/04/19 10:04, Martin Landa wrote:

> Hi,
>
> ne 3. 3. 2019 v 19:33 odesílatel Martin Landa <[hidden email]> napsal:
>> my +1 for creating 7.8 releasebranch. It's a first step which can be
>> done ASAP. Ma
>
> based on original plan:
>
> """
> * Proposal of release: 4 Feb 2019
> * Soft freeze of release branch: 11 Feb 2019
> * RC1: 11 Mar 2019
> * RC2: 24 Mar 2019
> * RC3: if needed
> * Final release: 1 Apr 2019
> """
>
> an updated plan below :-)
>
> """
> * Proposal of release: 1 Apr 2019
> * Soft freeze of release branch: 8 Apr 2019
> * RC1: 6 May 2019
> * RC2: 20 May 2019
> * RC3: if needed
> * Final release: 27 May 2019
> """
>
> A new branch should be created between April 1 and 8. Make sense to you?

How good is Python 3 support in trunk currently, especially for wxGui.
As would be expected, most errors I've seen in the past seem to be
linked either to wxGUI, or to lib/python.

Do you think it would be a good idea to create a 7.8 release branch
before having solved most of the Python 3 problems, or wouldn't it be
better to focus on that in trunk and create the realease branch only
once this has reached a reasonable state.

It's a big piece of work and would mean a lot of backporting if there is
still a significant amount to do.

Moritz
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