[postgis] ESRI client

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[postgis] ESRI client

vorelon
Hi
Can anybody help me. I need to use PostGis with ESRI products. Is it
posible?
 I convert same shp file into PostGis database, it's fine..... but.

I am looking for something like ArcSDE from ESRI, full compatible for
their clients, like ArcView and ArcIms.
 Is PostGis the right journey for me?


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Re: [postgis] ESRI client (ODBC issues)

David Graham
Dear vorelon:

It is possible to use PostGis with ESRI ArcView.  We are currently using
ArcView as a front end for our automated processing system.  We wrote a
little Avenue script to retrieve GEOMETRY from the PostGis table column
and then create a polygon theme.  You need to have the Database Access
extension loaded into AvcView and the Postgres ODBC driver installed oun
your machine and configured to point at your server. In theory it will
work with any GEOMETRY but currently we are only using Boxes.

The big problem with going this route is that there is a bug between the
Postges ODBC driver (built on the postges library) and Windows (Win32
kernal) that causes the maximum size of one single line of SQL to be
16K.  You can see that a complicated polygon will blow that away.  It
may be only an insert problem (have not tested it with retrieval). We
are manly trying to insert jobs into our database from ArcView although
we built the retrieval script to view the jobs that we have inserted.

The nature of the problem is that Windows C socket libraries function
differently than Unix C socket libraries.  To some extent the required
fix is understood, but the Postgres developer most suited to fix this
problem does not have Windows environements to test any kind of fix.  It
has been dropped to the bottom of the bug list (6/2001) until someone
with a windows environment has the initive to dig through the Postgres
library code and install and test a fix.  I have not been back reciently
to check if any progress has been made.

There may be a work around if you install a UnixODBC driver on the
PostGis database machine.  Something we are likely to look into.

As far as ArcIMS I have no experience.

David Graham
Information Integration and Imaging, LLC.
[hidden email]
http://www.i3.com

[hidden email] wrote:

> Hi
> Can anybody help me. I need to use PostGis with ESRI products. Is it
> posible?
>  I convert same shp file into PostGis database, it's fine..... but.
>
> I am looking for something like ArcSDE from ESRI, full compatible for
> their clients, like ArcView and ArcIms.
>  Is PostGis the right journey for me?
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [hidden email]
>
>  
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 



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Re: [postgis] ESRI client

Paul Ramsey-2
In reply to this post by vorelon
[hidden email] wrote:
> I am looking for something like ArcSDE from ESRI, full compatible for
> their clients, like ArcView and ArcIms.
>  Is PostGis the right journey for me?

If you're looking for "fully compatible" then take out your wallet and
give ESRI a call. ESRI products only give you all the great features
when used with ESRI servers (hmmm, this sounds familiar...). There are
some hacks to allow connectivity to things like PostGIS, but for a
seamless experience in the near term you will have to use SDE, because
that is the way ESRI wants it, and that is the way ESRI is going to keep
it.

I can only see one development path out of this quandry, and it is
phenomenally difficult: that is to build an "SDE interface" in front of
PostGIS which speaks the SDE wire protocol. It's phenomenally difficult
because the SDE wire protocol is proprietary, and would have to be
deduced from reading the packets off of the wire, in the same way the
SAMBA developers read the MicroSoft SMB file-sharing protocol. It should
be noted that the effort took them several years to get working
reasonably well.

For the moment, we'll have to be happy with hacks around ESRI-imposed
limitations, and hopefully will see some nice non-ESRI clients start to
spring up. We've heard several folks on the list express an interest in
these kinds of things in the past, so who knows what the future holds.

P.

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[postgis] Re: ESRI client

valentine

> For the moment, we'll have to be happy with hacks around
ESRI-imposed
> limitations, and hopefully will see some nice non-ESRI
clients start to
> spring up. We've heard several folks on the list express an
interest in
> these kinds of things in the past, so who knows what the
future holds.

The latest versions of SDE are actually built on the features
the DB provides (at least for DB2, Informix, and Oracle). This
means you need to just tel esri you want them to support PG
as a backend DB. File your feature request, and wait a couple
of years.

I might sugest a couple of hacks that would get around:
1) ArcIMS ArcAXL compatability. Support someone to write
middleware to emulate an ArcIMS datasource.
2) Write MapObects code to extract from PG DB, and expose
data as mapobject IMS server.
3) Use VB for apps/c interface to make the PG look like a data
layer.
4) WMS service layers, and non-esri clients.

Basically, all the steps involve programming. If you want out of
the box work with the esri investment, you are out of luck. You
need to go kiss jacks rear. Esri has not made it easy to
outside datasoruces. Just make it known to ESRI, that you are
not happy about it. They don't turn on a dime, but there are
people inside who do see the open point of view.


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Re: [postgis] Re: ESRI client

Frank Warmerdam

Folks,

The ArcGIS Service Pack 2 (hopefully released circa October) will include
support for adding an OLEDB data source to a project in much the same way you
can do with datasources from SDE.  If we implement an OLEDB interface to
PostGIS we would have a reasonable level of (readonly) PostGIS access.

I have implemented an OLE DB provider on top of OGR, and with some fine
tuning of the existing OGR/PostGIS binding we should be able to offer a fairly
efficient OLEDB provider built on PostGIS (with OGR as middleware).

The best would be if there was an OLE DB provider implemented for PostgreSQL
that we could hack in spatial support to.

As for ESRI flaming. I have had a love/hate relationship with ESRI for many
years (mostly hate), but they have been very cooperative working with me on
the OLE DB interface stuff.  While it has taken lots of pressure over the
years, I think ESRI is opening up data interfaces based on standards to
at least a limited degree.  Not much more can be said for the other big GIS
vendors.

Best regards,

--
---------------------------------------+--------------------------------------
I set the clouds in motion - turn up   | Frank Warmerdam, [hidden email]
light and sound - activate the windows | http://pobox.com/~warmerdam
and watch the world go round - Rush    | Geospatial Programmer for Rent


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Re: [postgis] Re: ESRI client

David Blasby-3
Frank Warmerdam wrote:
> The best would be if there was an OLE DB provider implemented for PostgreSQL
> that we could hack in spatial support to.

I think the postgresql ODBC driver is an old db provider.  I've been
playing with VB, and I can connect to postgresql/postgis via ODBC and
ADODB.  You have to set the ODBC driver so it doesnt chop data at 254
characters.

If you dont want to parse WKT at the client end, you could send the WKB
data as normal text by Base64 encoding it.  I havent looked at the ODBC
binary data columns yet.

dave
ps. Where can we get more ESRI info on all this?  I tried looking
through all their online documentation, but there's so much that says
absolutely nothing.

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