[pdal] Digitized building footprints

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[pdal] Digitized building footprints

Stephen V. Mather
Hi All,

I am processing a dataset for which I have a digitized building footprints. It'd be even cooler if I had vegetation, but beggers != choosers.

In principle, I could use filters.overlay, but this is a massive dataset, so I am curious if it makes more sense to rasterize, tile things up, and use filters.colorization.

Happy to test and report back on what is fastest, but in case someone has a hunch, or an alternative recommended approach, I thought I would ask.

Cheers,
Best,
Steve

http://sig.cmparks.net/cmp-ms-90x122.png Stephen V. Mather
GIS Manager
(216) 635-3243 (Work)
clevelandmetroparks.com





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Re: [pdal] Digitized building footprints

andrew.bell.ia@gmail.com


On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 11:25 AM Stephen V. Mather <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi All,

I am processing a dataset for which I have a digitized building footprints. It'd be even cooler if I had vegetation, but beggers != choosers.

In principle, I could use filters.overlay, but this is a massive dataset, so I am curious if it makes more sense to rasterize, tile things up, and use filters.colorization.

Happy to test and report back on what is fastest, but in case someone has a hunch, or an alternative recommended approach, I thought I would ask.

It's not clear to me what you're trying to do. Maybe you could state your goal?

--
Andrew Bell
[hidden email]

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Re: [pdal] Digitized building footprints

Howard Butler-3
In reply to this post by Stephen V. Mather


On Jun 29, 2020, at 10:18 AM, Stephen V. Mather <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi All,

I am processing a dataset for which I have a digitized building footprints. It'd be even cooler if I had vegetation, but beggers != choosers.

In principle, I could use filters.overlay, but this is a massive dataset, so I am curious if it makes more sense to rasterize, tile things up, and use filters.colorization.

Define massive ;)

I think your instinct to rasterize the footprints is the right one here. filters.overlay is going to do point-in-polygon for every point/poly combo. Most are quickly thrown out, but you're going to be checking every one. A raster mask is going to be much quicker, and you can control the resolution with gdal_rasterize.

Happy to test and report back on what is fastest, but in case someone has a hunch, or an alternative recommended approach, I thought I would ask.

I'm curious in how different things might be, but I suspect the approaches will separate quite quickly for significantly sized polygon and point cloud sets.

Howard


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Re: [pdal] Digitized building footprints

Stephen V. Mather
Ha! Ok, my gut was right. Rasters it is.

And by massive, I just mean 80k images worth of photogrammetric point clouds over 300km2. I know I estimated how many points that is at one point, but I don't recall now. 😄

http://sig.cmparks.net/cmp-ms-90x122.png Stephen V. Mather
GIS Manager
(216) 635-3243 (Work)
clevelandmetroparks.com





From: Howard Butler <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 12:50 PM
To: Stephen V. Mather <[hidden email]>
Cc: pdal <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [pdal] Digitized building footprints
 

WARNING: This email originated outside of Cleveland Metroparks. DO NOT CLICK links or attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.



On Jun 29, 2020, at 10:18 AM, Stephen V. Mather <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi All,

I am processing a dataset for which I have a digitized building footprints. It'd be even cooler if I had vegetation, but beggers != choosers.

In principle, I could use filters.overlay, but this is a massive dataset, so I am curious if it makes more sense to rasterize, tile things up, and use filters.colorization.

Define massive ;)

I think your instinct to rasterize the footprints is the right one here. filters.overlay is going to do point-in-polygon for every point/poly combo. Most are quickly thrown out, but you're going to be checking every one. A raster mask is going to be much quicker, and you can control the resolution with gdal_rasterize.

Happy to test and report back on what is fastest, but in case someone has a hunch, or an alternative recommended approach, I thought I would ask.

I'm curious in how different things might be, but I suspect the approaches will separate quite quickly for significantly sized polygon and point cloud sets.

Howard


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Re: [pdal] Digitized building footprints

Stephen V. Mather
In reply to this post by andrew.bell.ia@gmail.com
Hi Andrew,

The goal is to use the digitized footprints to filter the point cloud of the known buildings. With the buildings removed, I plan to then feed this in to SMRF to remove the vegetation points as best as possible. Something similar to this:

Thanks,
Best,
Steve


http://sig.cmparks.net/cmp-ms-90x122.png Stephen V. Mather
GIS Manager
(216) 635-3243 (Work)
clevelandmetroparks.com





From: Andrew Bell <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 12:43 PM
To: Stephen V. Mather <[hidden email]>
Cc: pdal <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [pdal] Digitized building footprints
 

WARNING: This email originated outside of Cleveland Metroparks. DO NOT CLICK links or attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.



On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 11:25 AM Stephen V. Mather <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi All,

I am processing a dataset for which I have a digitized building footprints. It'd be even cooler if I had vegetation, but beggers != choosers.

In principle, I could use filters.overlay, but this is a massive dataset, so I am curious if it makes more sense to rasterize, tile things up, and use filters.colorization.

Happy to test and report back on what is fastest, but in case someone has a hunch, or an alternative recommended approach, I thought I would ask.

It's not clear to me what you're trying to do. Maybe you could state your goal?

--
Andrew Bell
[hidden email]

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Re: [pdal] Digitized building footprints

andrew.bell.ia@gmail.com
In reply to this post by Stephen V. Mather


On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 1:20 PM Stephen V. Mather <[hidden email]> wrote:
Ha! Ok, my gut was right. Rasters it is.

And by massive, I just mean 80k images worth of photogrammetric point clouds over 300km2. I know I estimated how many points that is at one point, but I don't recall now. 😄

http://sig.cmparks.net/cmp-ms-90x122.png Stephen V. Mather
GIS Manager
(216) 635-3243 (Work)
clevelandmetroparks.com





From: Howard Butler <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 12:50 PM
To: Stephen V. Mather <[hidden email]>
Cc: pdal <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [pdal] Digitized building footprints
 

WARNING: This email originated outside of Cleveland Metroparks. DO NOT CLICK links or attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.



On Jun 29, 2020, at 10:18 AM, Stephen V. Mather <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi All,

I am processing a dataset for which I have a digitized building footprints. It'd be even cooler if I had vegetation, but beggers != choosers.

In principle, I could use filters.overlay, but this is a massive dataset, so I am curious if it makes more sense to rasterize, tile things up, and use filters.colorization.

Define massive ;)

I think your instinct to rasterize the footprints is the right one here. filters.overlay is going to do point-in-polygon for every point/poly combo. Most are quickly thrown out, but you're going to be checking every one. A raster mask is going to be much quicker, and you can control the resolution with gdal_rasterize.

I don't know why you wouldn't use the overlay/range option. I don't know any reason why this would be slow and it seems simple.

--
Andrew Bell
[hidden email]

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Re: [pdal] Digitized building footprints

adam steer-2
So your aim is to label building points? 

If yes, then overlay seems like the least resistance way (I haven't played with that enough, I'd implicitly trust Howard here though) :)

My maybe-useful addition is that it'll conceptually still work just fine if you have to tile things up, there's no neighbourhood usage going on. So no need to try and jam things all into one giant memory blob.

Cheers

Adam

On Tue, 30 Jun 2020 at 04:03, Andrew Bell <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 1:20 PM Stephen V. Mather <[hidden email]> wrote:
Ha! Ok, my gut was right. Rasters it is.

And by massive, I just mean 80k images worth of photogrammetric point clouds over 300km2. I know I estimated how many points that is at one point, but I don't recall now. 😄

http://sig.cmparks.net/cmp-ms-90x122.png Stephen V. Mather
GIS Manager
(216) 635-3243 (Work)
clevelandmetroparks.com





From: Howard Butler <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 12:50 PM
To: Stephen V. Mather <[hidden email]>
Cc: pdal <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [pdal] Digitized building footprints
 

WARNING: This email originated outside of Cleveland Metroparks. DO NOT CLICK links or attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.



On Jun 29, 2020, at 10:18 AM, Stephen V. Mather <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi All,

I am processing a dataset for which I have a digitized building footprints. It'd be even cooler if I had vegetation, but beggers != choosers.

In principle, I could use filters.overlay, but this is a massive dataset, so I am curious if it makes more sense to rasterize, tile things up, and use filters.colorization.

Define massive ;)

I think your instinct to rasterize the footprints is the right one here. filters.overlay is going to do point-in-polygon for every point/poly combo. Most are quickly thrown out, but you're going to be checking every one. A raster mask is going to be much quicker, and you can control the resolution with gdal_rasterize.

I don't know why you wouldn't use the overlay/range option. I don't know any reason why this would be slow and it seems simple.

--
Andrew Bell
[hidden email]
_______________________________________________
pdal mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/pdal


--

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Re: [pdal] Digitized building footprints

Stephen V. Mather
I do have 768GB of RAM, but I'm pretty sure I can still pass the ceiling. Tiling is mighty attractive here.

Cool. I will report back as things develop.

Thanks,
Best,
Steve

http://sig.cmparks.net/cmp-ms-90x122.png Stephen V. Mather
GIS Manager
(216) 635-3243 (Work)
clevelandmetroparks.com





From: adam steer <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 6:23 PM
To: Stephen V. Mather <[hidden email]>
Cc: pdal <[hidden email]>; Andrew Bell <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [pdal] Digitized building footprints
 

WARNING: This email originated outside of Cleveland Metroparks. DO NOT CLICK links or attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.

So your aim is to label building points? 

If yes, then overlay seems like the least resistance way (I haven't played with that enough, I'd implicitly trust Howard here though) :)

My maybe-useful addition is that it'll conceptually still work just fine if you have to tile things up, there's no neighbourhood usage going on. So no need to try and jam things all into one giant memory blob.

Cheers

Adam

On Tue, 30 Jun 2020 at 04:03, Andrew Bell <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 1:20 PM Stephen V. Mather <[hidden email]> wrote:
Ha! Ok, my gut was right. Rasters it is.

And by massive, I just mean 80k images worth of photogrammetric point clouds over 300km2. I know I estimated how many points that is at one point, but I don't recall now. 😄

http://sig.cmparks.net/cmp-ms-90x122.png Stephen V. Mather
GIS Manager
(216) 635-3243 (Work)
clevelandmetroparks.com





From: Howard Butler <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 12:50 PM
To: Stephen V. Mather <[hidden email]>
Cc: pdal <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [pdal] Digitized building footprints
 

WARNING: This email originated outside of Cleveland Metroparks. DO NOT CLICK links or attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.



On Jun 29, 2020, at 10:18 AM, Stephen V. Mather <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi All,

I am processing a dataset for which I have a digitized building footprints. It'd be even cooler if I had vegetation, but beggers != choosers.

In principle, I could use filters.overlay, but this is a massive dataset, so I am curious if it makes more sense to rasterize, tile things up, and use filters.colorization.

Define massive ;)

I think your instinct to rasterize the footprints is the right one here. filters.overlay is going to do point-in-polygon for every point/poly combo. Most are quickly thrown out, but you're going to be checking every one. A raster mask is going to be much quicker, and you can control the resolution with gdal_rasterize.

I don't know why you wouldn't use the overlay/range option. I don't know any reason why this would be slow and it seems simple.

--
Andrew Bell
[hidden email]
_______________________________________________
pdal mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/pdal


--

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Re: [pdal] Digitized building footprints

adam steer-2
In reply to this post by Stephen V. Mather
Hey Stephen

Also - do some testing with the CSF filter. I've found it to be the best method (so far) of getting ground from SfM datasets.

Cheers

Adam


On Tue, 30 Jun 2020 at 03:16, Stephen V. Mather <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Andrew,

The goal is to use the digitized footprints to filter the point cloud of the known buildings. With the buildings removed, I plan to then feed this in to SMRF to remove the vegetation points as best as possible. Something similar to this:

Thanks,
Best,
Steve


http://sig.cmparks.net/cmp-ms-90x122.png Stephen V. Mather
GIS Manager
(216) 635-3243 (Work)
clevelandmetroparks.com





From: Andrew Bell <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 12:43 PM
To: Stephen V. Mather <[hidden email]>
Cc: pdal <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [pdal] Digitized building footprints
 

WARNING: This email originated outside of Cleveland Metroparks. DO NOT CLICK links or attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.



On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 11:25 AM Stephen V. Mather <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi All,

I am processing a dataset for which I have a digitized building footprints. It'd be even cooler if I had vegetation, but beggers != choosers.

In principle, I could use filters.overlay, but this is a massive dataset, so I am curious if it makes more sense to rasterize, tile things up, and use filters.colorization.

Happy to test and report back on what is fastest, but in case someone has a hunch, or an alternative recommended approach, I thought I would ask.

It's not clear to me what you're trying to do. Maybe you could state your goal?

--
Andrew Bell
[hidden email]
_______________________________________________
pdal mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/pdal


--

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Re: [pdal] Digitized building footprints

ginetto
In reply to this post by Stephen V. Mather
hmmmm... did you check difference running MF with or without buildings? due to closing/opening process of the algorithm, the nearest points to building can be affected. In case of building, these points can be vegetations, especially in dry area with high thermal mass buildings (soil, mud, rock); vegetation grow better near this places where the water stress is reduced [1]

Luigi Pirelli

* Hire a team: http://www.qcooperative.net
**************************************************************************************************


On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 at 19:16, Stephen V. Mather <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Andrew,

The goal is to use the digitized footprints to filter the point cloud of the known buildings. With the buildings removed, I plan to then feed this in to SMRF to remove the vegetation points as best as possible. Something similar to this:

Thanks,
Best,
Steve


http://sig.cmparks.net/cmp-ms-90x122.png Stephen V. Mather
GIS Manager
(216) 635-3243 (Work)
clevelandmetroparks.com





From: Andrew Bell <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 12:43 PM
To: Stephen V. Mather <[hidden email]>
Cc: pdal <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [pdal] Digitized building footprints
 

WARNING: This email originated outside of Cleveland Metroparks. DO NOT CLICK links or attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.



On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 11:25 AM Stephen V. Mather <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi All,

I am processing a dataset for which I have a digitized building footprints. It'd be even cooler if I had vegetation, but beggers != choosers.

In principle, I could use filters.overlay, but this is a massive dataset, so I am curious if it makes more sense to rasterize, tile things up, and use filters.colorization.

Happy to test and report back on what is fastest, but in case someone has a hunch, or an alternative recommended approach, I thought I would ask.

It's not clear to me what you're trying to do. Maybe you could state your goal?

--
Andrew Bell
[hidden email]
_______________________________________________
pdal mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/pdal

_______________________________________________
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Re: [pdal] Digitized building footprints

Stephen V. Mather
Vegetation definitely shows up as a little spiked ring around the edges of where the buildings sit. I tend to buffer the buildings marginally anyway, and the remaining vegetation shows up as an unusually shaped spike that then the morphological filter addresses pretty well. We will see how it fares with CSF.

(now sent with the correct email address to access the list)

http://sig.cmparks.net/cmp-ms-90x122.png Stephen V. Mather
GIS Manager
(216) 635-3243 (Work)
clevelandmetroparks.com





From: Luigi Pirelli <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2020 2:33 AM
To: Stephen V. Mather <[hidden email]>
Cc: pdal <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [pdal] Digitized building footprints
 

WARNING: This email originated outside of Cleveland Metroparks. DO NOT CLICK links or attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.

hmmmm... did you check difference running MF with or without buildings? due to closing/opening process of the algorithm, the nearest points to building can be affected. In case of building, these points can be vegetations, especially in dry area with high thermal mass buildings (soil, mud, rock); vegetation grow better near this places where the water stress is reduced [1]

Luigi Pirelli

[1] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SXR66YG/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

**************************************************************************************************
* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/luigipirelli
* Stackexchange: http://gis.stackexchange.com/users/19667/luigi-pirelli
* GitHub: https://github.com/luipir
* Book: Mastering QGIS3 - 3rd Edition
* Hire a team: http://www.qcooperative.net
**************************************************************************************************


On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 at 19:16, Stephen V. Mather <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Andrew,

The goal is to use the digitized footprints to filter the point cloud of the known buildings. With the buildings removed, I plan to then feed this in to SMRF to remove the vegetation points as best as possible. Something similar to this:

Thanks,
Best,
Steve


http://sig.cmparks.net/cmp-ms-90x122.png Stephen V. Mather
GIS Manager
(216) 635-3243 (Work)
clevelandmetroparks.com





From: Andrew Bell <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 12:43 PM
To: Stephen V. Mather <[hidden email]>
Cc: pdal <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [pdal] Digitized building footprints
 

WARNING: This email originated outside of Cleveland Metroparks. DO NOT CLICK links or attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.



On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 11:25 AM Stephen V. Mather <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi All,

I am processing a dataset for which I have a digitized building footprints. It'd be even cooler if I had vegetation, but beggers != choosers.

In principle, I could use filters.overlay, but this is a massive dataset, so I am curious if it makes more sense to rasterize, tile things up, and use filters.colorization.

Happy to test and report back on what is fastest, but in case someone has a hunch, or an alternative recommended approach, I thought I would ask.

It's not clear to me what you're trying to do. Maybe you could state your goal?

--
Andrew Bell
[hidden email]
_______________________________________________
pdal mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/pdal

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Re: [pdal] Digitized building footprints

Stephen V. Mather
Back to Howard’s question about the deinitition of massive: we’re looking at something north of 15 billion points.

More as I dive into testing this week.

Cheers,
Best,
Steve

On Jul 2, 2020, at 06:09, Stephen V. Mather <[hidden email]> wrote:


Vegetation definitely shows up as a little spiked ring around the edges of where the buildings sit. I tend to buffer the buildings marginally anyway, and the remaining vegetation shows up as an unusually shaped spike that then the morphological filter addresses pretty well. We will see how it fares with CSF.

(now sent with the correct email address to access the list)

http://sig.cmparks.net/cmp-ms-90x122.png Stephen V. Mather
GIS Manager
(216) 635-3243 (Work)
clevelandmetroparks.com





From: Luigi Pirelli <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2020 2:33 AM
To: Stephen V. Mather <[hidden email]>
Cc: pdal <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [pdal] Digitized building footprints
 

WARNING: This email originated outside of Cleveland Metroparks. DO NOT CLICK links or attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.

hmmmm... did you check difference running MF with or without buildings? due to closing/opening process of the algorithm, the nearest points to building can be affected. In case of building, these points can be vegetations, especially in dry area with high thermal mass buildings (soil, mud, rock); vegetation grow better near this places where the water stress is reduced [1]

Luigi Pirelli

[1] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SXR66YG/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

**************************************************************************************************
* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/luigipirelli
* Stackexchange: http://gis.stackexchange.com/users/19667/luigi-pirelli
* GitHub: https://github.com/luipir
* Book: Mastering QGIS3 - 3rd Edition
* Hire a team: http://www.qcooperative.net
**************************************************************************************************


On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 at 19:16, Stephen V. Mather <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Andrew,

The goal is to use the digitized footprints to filter the point cloud of the known buildings. With the buildings removed, I plan to then feed this in to SMRF to remove the vegetation points as best as possible. Something similar to this:

Thanks,
Best,
Steve


http://sig.cmparks.net/cmp-ms-90x122.png Stephen V. Mather
GIS Manager
(216) 635-3243 (Work)
clevelandmetroparks.com





From: Andrew Bell <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 12:43 PM
To: Stephen V. Mather <[hidden email]>
Cc: pdal <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [pdal] Digitized building footprints
 

WARNING: This email originated outside of Cleveland Metroparks. DO NOT CLICK links or attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.



On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 11:25 AM Stephen V. Mather <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi All,

I am processing a dataset for which I have a digitized building footprints. It'd be even cooler if I had vegetation, but beggers != choosers.

In principle, I could use filters.overlay, but this is a massive dataset, so I am curious if it makes more sense to rasterize, tile things up, and use filters.colorization.

Happy to test and report back on what is fastest, but in case someone has a hunch, or an alternative recommended approach, I thought I would ask.

It's not clear to me what you're trying to do. Maybe you could state your goal?

--
Andrew Bell
[hidden email]
_______________________________________________
pdal mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/pdal

_______________________________________________
pdal mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/pdal