load arcSDE raw data from database and convert to lat/long

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load arcSDE raw data from database and convert to lat/long

Vincenzo Ampolo
Hi all,

I'm new to proj.

I just have a set of X, Y coordinates. i dunno what they are or the
format they use. I suppose they are a raw export of arcgis point data
exported via csv from a database. I think that arcsde is used as a
gateway. Coordinates are:

X = 1550428 Y = 2447336 and should be a point closer to lat = 41,8905198
lng = 12,4942486
X = 2159820 Y = 1457635 and should be a point closer to lat = 45,463681
lng = 9,1881714

I need a way to convert them. i tried to decode them as UTM or
cartesians point in meters but it doesn't work.

Does anyone have a suggestion in how to solve this problem?

Thanks.

--
Vincenzo Ampolo
http://vincenzo-ampolo.net
http://goshawknest.wordpress.com

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Re: load arcSDE raw data from database and convert to lat/long

Clifford J Mugnier
[Proj] load arcSDE raw data from database and convert to lat/long
Vincenzo,
 
Since you did not mention where you are, I had to look up the coordinates to give you a clue.  Since your coordinates are near Rome, the local coordinate system is a Gauss-Boaga Transverse Mercator referenced to the Monte Mario Datum of 1940 on the International ellipsoid.  For further details, see my column on the Italian Republic in the August 2005 issue of Photogrammetric Engineering & Remote Sensing.  The pdf of that column may be downloaded from the society's website at www.ASPRS.org
 
Clifford J. Mugnier, C.P., C.M.S.
Chief of Geodesy,
Center for GeoInformatics
Department of Civil Engineering
Patrick F. Taylor Hall 3531
LOUISIANA STATE UNIVERSITY
Baton Rouge, LA  70803
Voice and Facsimile:  (225) 578-8536 [Academic]
Voice and Facsimile:  (225) 578-4578 [Research]
Cell: (225) 328-8975 [Academic & Research]
Honorary Life Member of the
Louisiana Society of Professional Surveyors
Fellow Emeritus of the ASPRS
Member of the Americas Petroleum Survey Group



From: [hidden email] on behalf of Vincenzo Ampolo
Sent: Wed 09-Nov-11 09:36
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Proj] load arcSDE raw data from database and convert to lat/long

Hi all,

I'm new to proj.

I just have a set of X, Y coordinates. i dunno what they are or the
format they use. I suppose they are a raw export of arcgis point data
exported via csv from a database. I think that arcsde is used as a
gateway. Coordinates are:

X = 1550428 Y = 2447336 and should be a point closer to lat = 41,8905198
lng = 12,4942486
X = 2159820 Y = 1457635 and should be a point closer to lat = 45,463681
lng = 9,1881714

I need a way to convert them. i tried to decode them as UTM or
cartesians point in meters but it doesn't work.

Does anyone have a suggestion in how to solve this problem?

Thanks.

--
Vincenzo Ampolo
http://vincenzo-ampolo.net
http://goshawknest.wordpress.com

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Re: load arcSDE raw data from database and convert to lat/long

Vincenzo Ampolo
On 11/09/2011 04:50 PM, Clifford J Mugnier wrote:
Vincenzo,
Dear Clifford,
 
Since you did not mention where you are, I had to look up the coordinates to give you a clue.  Since your coordinates are near Rome, the local coordinate system is a Gauss-Boaga Transverse Mercator referenced to the Monte Mario Datum of 1940 on the International ellipsoid.  For further details, see my column on the Italian Republic in the August 2005 issue of Photogrammetric Engineering & Remote Sensing.  The pdf of that column may be downloaded from the society's website at www.ASPRS.org
 
Clifford J. Mugnier, C.P., C.M.S.
based on your advice i surfed the web and found:

http://www.rigacci.org/wiki/doku.php/tecnica/gps_cartografia_gis/gauss_boaga_wgs84

So i tried to use pyproj to do the computation:

In [50]: p = Proj(proj="tmerc", lat_0="0", lon_0="9", k="0.9996", x_0="1500000", y_0="0", ellps="intl", units="m", towgs84="-104.1,-49.1,-9.9,0.971,-2.917,0.714,-11.68")

In [51]: x,y = p(45.463681, 9.1881714)

In [52]: print x,y
5790656.63279 1259107.51994

But it's still wrong, i should obtain something close to X=2159820 Y=1457635

Any other suggestion?

Thanks for all.
-- 
Vincenzo Ampolo
http://vincenzo-ampolo.net
http://goshawknest.wordpress.com

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Re: load arcSDE raw data from database and convert tolat/long

Noel Zinn (cc)
Vincenzo,
 
Here’s a radical suggestion for your consideration.  Approach the source of these coordinates and get projection, grid, ellipsoid and datum shift parameters.  Forensic sleuthing is great entertainment, but without definitive documentation it’s just an informed guess.
 
Noel
 
Noel Zinn, Principal, Hydrometronics LLC
+1-832-539-1472 (office), +1-281-221-0051 (cell)
[hidden email] (email)
http://www.hydrometronics.com (website)
 
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2011 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Proj] load arcSDE raw data from database and convert tolat/long
 
On 11/09/2011 04:50 PM, Clifford J Mugnier wrote:
Vincenzo,
Dear Clifford,
 
Since you did not mention where you are, I had to look up the coordinates to give you a clue.  Since your coordinates are near Rome, the local coordinate system is a Gauss-Boaga Transverse Mercator referenced to the Monte Mario Datum of 1940 on the International ellipsoid.  For further details, see my column on the Italian Republic in the August 2005 issue of Photogrammetric Engineering & Remote Sensing.  The pdf of that column may be downloaded from the society's website at www.ASPRS.org.
 
Clifford J. Mugnier, C.P., C.M.S.
based on your advice i surfed the web and found:

http://www.rigacci.org/wiki/doku.php/tecnica/gps_cartografia_gis/gauss_boaga_wgs84

So i tried to use pyproj to do the computation:

In [50]: p = Proj(proj="tmerc", lat_0="0", lon_0="9", k="0.9996", x_0="1500000", y_0="0", ellps="intl", units="m", towgs84="-104.1,-49.1,-9.9,0.971,-2.917,0.714,-11.68")

In [51]: x,y = p(45.463681, 9.1881714)

In [52]: print x,y
5790656.63279 1259107.51994

But it's still wrong, i should obtain something close to X=2159820 Y=1457635

Any other suggestion?

Thanks for all.
-- 
Vincenzo Ampolo
http://vincenzo-ampolo.net
http://goshawknest.wordpress.com


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Re: load arcSDE raw data from database and convert to lat/long

José Alberto Gonçalves
In reply to this post by Vincenzo Ampolo
Hi
There is something wrong with those coordinates. The second point has larger X but smaller longitude and smaller Y but larger latitude. Are X and Y changed in one of the points?
Regards
José Gonçalves



No dia 9 Nov 2011, às 15:36, Vincenzo Ampolo <[hidden email]> escreveu:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm new to proj.
>
> I just have a set of X, Y coordinates. i dunno what they are or the
> format they use. I suppose they are a raw export of arcgis point data
> exported via csv from a database. I think that arcsde is used as a
> gateway. Coordinates are:
>
> X = 1550428 Y = 2447336 and should be a point closer to lat = 41,8905198
> lng = 12,4942486
> X = 2159820 Y = 1457635 and should be a point closer to lat = 45,463681
> lng = 9,1881714
>
> I need a way to convert them. i tried to decode them as UTM or
> cartesians point in meters but it doesn't work.
>
> Does anyone have a suggestion in how to solve this problem?
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Vincenzo Ampolo
> http://vincenzo-ampolo.net
> http://goshawknest.wordpress.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Proj mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj
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Re: load arcSDE raw data from database and convert to lat/long

Vincenzo Ampolo
On 11/09/2011 06:32 PM, JAG wrote:
> Hi
> There is something wrong with those coordinates. The second point has larger X but smaller longitude and smaller Y but larger latitude. Are X and Y changed in one of the points?
> Regards
> José Gonçalves
No, i double checked and the points seem fine. They are stored in the
cvs file as X and Y as stated.

I just received a leak that they could be data gathered from navteq
software. Can it help?

Since all data is in a 20km^2 region i'm also thinking to detect a point
in lat/long, detect the same point in the unknow data X/Y and then write
a formula which does the conversion. It will not work worldwide but it
can work in that region. Do you think that it's feasible?


--
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http://vincenzo-ampolo.net
http://goshawknest.wordpress.com

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Re: load arcSDE raw data from database and convert to lat/long

José Alberto Gonçalves
Looking only to the geographic coordinates, the differences are 3.6 deg in latitude and 3.3 deg in longitude. That is approximately 400 km in latitude and 270 km in longitude, which does not agree with the area you refer.

Regards

José




No dia 11 Nov 2011, às 09:54, Vincenzo Ampolo <[hidden email]> escreveu:

> On 11/09/2011 06:32 PM, JAG wrote:
>> Hi
>> There is something wrong with those coordinates. The second point has larger X but smaller longitude and smaller Y but larger latitude. Are X and Y changed in one of the points?
>> Regards
>> José Gonçalves
> No, i double checked and the points seem fine. They are stored in the
> cvs file as X and Y as stated.
>
> I just received a leak that they could be data gathered from navteq
> software. Can it help?
>
> Since all data is in a 20km^2 region i'm also thinking to detect a point
> in lat/long, detect the same point in the unknow data X/Y and then write
> a formula which does the conversion. It will not work worldwide but it
> can work in that region. Do you think that it's feasible?
>
>
> --
> Vincenzo Ampolo
> http://vincenzo-ampolo.net
> http://goshawknest.wordpress.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Proj mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj
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Re: load arcSDE raw data from database and convert to lat/long

Vincenzo Ampolo
On 11/11/2011 11:28 AM, JAG wrote:
Looking only to the geographic coordinates, the differences are 3.6 deg in latitude and 3.3 deg in longitude. That is approximately 400 km in latitude and 270 km in longitude, which does not agree with the area you refer.

Regards

José
Sorry, i didn't mean that the two points are close together. They are from different datasets.

I've 40.000 points which are all close to
lat = 41,8905198 
lng = 12,4942486
Which is Rome (italy)

And other 40.000 points which are all close to
lat = 45,463681 
lng = 9,1881714
which is Milan (Italy)

This is some data i've for the first set of points (around Rome)

GeoX (M) GeoY (N) Colonna comune (B) Colonna indirizzo (D)
2447857 1069853 ROMA CIRCONVALLAZIONE GIANICOLENSE
2447336 1075588 ROMA CIRCONVALLAZIONE CLODIA
2447336 1075588 ROMA CIRCONVALLAZIONE CLODIA
2451643 1077238 ROMA VIALE SOMALIA
2447857 1069853 ROMA CIRCONVALLAZIONE GIANICOLENSE
2457129 1068315 ROMA CIRCONVALLAZIONE TUSCOLANA
2457129 1068315 ROMA CIRCONVALLAZIONE TUSCOLANA
2448230 1077592 ROMA CORSO DI FRANCIA
2448560 1069650 ROMA PIAZZA DELLA RADIO
2456036 1078472 ROMA VIA DIEGO FABBRI
2446575 1067372 ROMA VIALE ISACCO NEWTON
2448230 1077592 ROMA CORSO DI FRANCIA
2448230 1077592 ROMA CORSO DI FRANCIA
2448850 1072702 ROMA CORSO VITTORIO EMANUELE II
2451492 1068723 ROMA LARGO BENEDETTO BOMPIANI
2454671 1080064 ROMA VIA FRANCO SIMONGINI
2447642 1078350 ROMA VIA DI VIGNA STELLUTI
2447642 1078350 ROMA VIA DI VIGNA STELLUTI
2447642 1078350 ROMA VIA DI VIGNA STELLUTI
2447642 1078350 ROMA VIA DI VIGNA STELLUTI
2447642 1078350 ROMA VIA DI VIGNA STELLUTI
2450834 1067730 ROMA PIAZZALE DEL CARAVAGGIO
2447187 1074983 ROMA PIAZZALE CLODIO
2447187 1074983 ROMA PIAZZALE CLODIO
2446665 1073922 ROMA PIAZZALE DEGLI EROI
2448836 1074408 ROMA PIAZZALE FLAMINIO
2447369 1075612 ROMA PIAZZALE MARESCIALLO GIARDINO
2447369 1075612 ROMA PIAZZALE MARESCIALLO GIARDINO
2448234 1076254 ROMA PIAZZA APOLLODORO
2452382 1080020 ROMA PIAZZA DELL'ATENEO SALESIANO
2448494 1073731 ROMA PIAZZA CAVOUR
2456566 1070962 ROMA PIAZZA DELLE CAMELIE
2451500 1076660 ROMA PIAZZA DI PRISCILLA
2447346 1076534 ROMA PIAZZA LAURO DE BOSIS
2447584 1076916 ROMA PIAZZALE MARESCIALLO DIAZ
2447584 1076916 ROMA PIAZZALE MARESCIALLO DIAZ
2448307 1075184 ROMA PIAZZA MONTE GRAPPA
2445891 1072333 ROMA PIAZZA PIO XI
2447714 1078540 ROMA PIAZZA STEFANO JACINI

Thanks for all.
-- 
Vincenzo Ampolo
http://vincenzo-ampolo.net
http://goshawknest.wordpress.com

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Re: load arcSDE raw data from database and convert to lat/long

José Alberto Gonçalves
You should first look carefully at you data. In your first e-mail you said one of the points was:

"X = 1550428 Y = 2447336 and should be a point closer to lat = 41,8905198 lng = 12,4942486"

The geographic coordinates correspond in fact to a point in Rome. But now you give X,Y coordinates like

2447857 1069853

If coordinates are meters, this point is very far from Rome, even if you change the order in one of the points!...

Regards

José



2011/11/11 Vincenzo Ampolo <[hidden email]>
On 11/11/2011 11:28 AM, JAG wrote:
Looking only to the geographic coordinates, the differences are 3.6 deg in latitude and 3.3 deg in longitude. That is approximately 400 km in latitude and 270 km in longitude, which does not agree with the area you refer.

Regards

José
Sorry, i didn't mean that the two points are close together. They are from different datasets.

I've 40.000 points which are all close to
lat = 41,8905198 
lng = 12,4942486
Which is Rome (italy)

And other 40.000 points which are all close to

lat = 45,463681 
lng = 9,1881714
which is Milan (Italy)

This is some data i've for the first set of points (around Rome)

GeoX (M) GeoY (N) Colonna comune (B) Colonna indirizzo (D)
2447857 1069853 ROMA CIRCONVALLAZIONE GIANICOLENSE
2447336 1075588 ROMA CIRCONVALLAZIONE CLODIA
2447336 1075588 ROMA CIRCONVALLAZIONE CLODIA
2451643 1077238 ROMA VIALE SOMALIA
2447857 1069853 ROMA CIRCONVALLAZIONE GIANICOLENSE
2457129 1068315 ROMA CIRCONVALLAZIONE TUSCOLANA
2457129 1068315 ROMA CIRCONVALLAZIONE TUSCOLANA
2448230 1077592 ROMA CORSO DI FRANCIA
2448560 1069650 ROMA PIAZZA DELLA RADIO
2456036 1078472 ROMA VIA DIEGO FABBRI
2446575 1067372 ROMA VIALE ISACCO NEWTON
2448230 1077592 ROMA CORSO DI FRANCIA
2448230 1077592 ROMA CORSO DI FRANCIA
2448850 1072702 ROMA CORSO VITTORIO EMANUELE II
2451492 1068723 ROMA LARGO BENEDETTO BOMPIANI
2454671 1080064 ROMA VIA FRANCO SIMONGINI
2447642 1078350 ROMA VIA DI VIGNA STELLUTI
2447642 1078350 ROMA VIA DI VIGNA STELLUTI
2447642 1078350 ROMA VIA DI VIGNA STELLUTI
2447642 1078350 ROMA VIA DI VIGNA STELLUTI
2447642 1078350 ROMA VIA DI VIGNA STELLUTI
2450834 1067730 ROMA PIAZZALE DEL CARAVAGGIO
2447187 1074983 ROMA PIAZZALE CLODIO
2447187 1074983 ROMA PIAZZALE CLODIO
2446665 1073922 ROMA PIAZZALE DEGLI EROI
2448836 1074408 ROMA PIAZZALE FLAMINIO
2447369 1075612 ROMA PIAZZALE MARESCIALLO GIARDINO
2447369 1075612 ROMA PIAZZALE MARESCIALLO GIARDINO
2448234 1076254 ROMA PIAZZA APOLLODORO
2452382 1080020 ROMA PIAZZA DELL'ATENEO SALESIANO
2448494 1073731 ROMA PIAZZA CAVOUR
2456566 1070962 ROMA PIAZZA DELLE CAMELIE
2451500 1076660 ROMA PIAZZA DI PRISCILLA
2447346 1076534 ROMA PIAZZA LAURO DE BOSIS
2447584 1076916 ROMA PIAZZALE MARESCIALLO DIAZ
2447584 1076916 ROMA PIAZZALE MARESCIALLO DIAZ
2448307 1075184 ROMA PIAZZA MONTE GRAPPA
2445891 1072333 ROMA PIAZZA PIO XI
2447714 1078540 ROMA PIAZZA STEFANO JACINI

Thanks for all.

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Re: load arcSDE raw data from database and convert to lat/long

Mikael Rittri
Perhaps the two datasets use different coordinate reference systems?

Regards,

Mikael Rittri
Carmenta
Sweden

11 nov 2011 kl. 15:25 skrev "Jose Gonçalves" <[hidden email]>:

You should first look carefully at you data. In your first e-mail you said one of the points was:

"X = 1550428 Y = 2447336 and should be a point closer to lat = 41,8905198 lng = 12,4942486"

The geographic coordinates correspond in fact to a point in Rome. But now you give X,Y coordinates like

2447857 1069853

If coordinates are meters, this point is very far from Rome, even if you change the order in one of the points!...

Regards

José



2011/11/11 Vincenzo Ampolo <[hidden email]>
On 11/11/2011 11:28 AM, JAG wrote:
Looking only to the geographic coordinates, the differences are 3.6 deg in latitude and 3.3 deg in longitude. That is approximately 400 km in latitude and 270 km in longitude, which does not agree with the area you refer.

Regards

José
Sorry, i didn't mean that the two points are close together. They are from different datasets.

I've 40.000 points which are all close to
lat = 41,8905198 
lng = 12,4942486
Which is Rome (italy)

And other 40.000 points which are all close to

lat = 45,463681 
lng = 9,1881714
which is Milan (Italy)

This is some data i've for the first set of points (around Rome)

GeoX (M) GeoY (N) Colonna comune (B) Colonna indirizzo (D)
2447857 1069853 ROMA CIRCONVALLAZIONE GIANICOLENSE
2447336 1075588 ROMA CIRCONVALLAZIONE CLODIA
2447336 1075588 ROMA CIRCONVALLAZIONE CLODIA
2451643 1077238 ROMA VIALE SOMALIA
2447857 1069853 ROMA CIRCONVALLAZIONE GIANICOLENSE
2457129 1068315 ROMA CIRCONVALLAZIONE TUSCOLANA
2457129 1068315 ROMA CIRCONVALLAZIONE TUSCOLANA
2448230 1077592 ROMA CORSO DI FRANCIA
2448560 1069650 ROMA PIAZZA DELLA RADIO
2456036 1078472 ROMA VIA DIEGO FABBRI
2446575 1067372 ROMA VIALE ISACCO NEWTON
2448230 1077592 ROMA CORSO DI FRANCIA
2448230 1077592 ROMA CORSO DI FRANCIA
2448850 1072702 ROMA CORSO VITTORIO EMANUELE II
2451492 1068723 ROMA LARGO BENEDETTO BOMPIANI
2454671 1080064 ROMA VIA FRANCO SIMONGINI
2447642 1078350 ROMA VIA DI VIGNA STELLUTI
2447642 1078350 ROMA VIA DI VIGNA STELLUTI
2447642 1078350 ROMA VIA DI VIGNA STELLUTI
2447642 1078350 ROMA VIA DI VIGNA STELLUTI
2447642 1078350 ROMA VIA DI VIGNA STELLUTI
2450834 1067730 ROMA PIAZZALE DEL CARAVAGGIO
2447187 1074983 ROMA PIAZZALE CLODIO
2447187 1074983 ROMA PIAZZALE CLODIO
2446665 1073922 ROMA PIAZZALE DEGLI EROI
2448836 1074408 ROMA PIAZZALE FLAMINIO
2447369 1075612 ROMA PIAZZALE MARESCIALLO GIARDINO
2447369 1075612 ROMA PIAZZALE MARESCIALLO GIARDINO
2448234 1076254 ROMA PIAZZA APOLLODORO
2452382 1080020 ROMA PIAZZA DELL'ATENEO SALESIANO
2448494 1073731 ROMA PIAZZA CAVOUR
2456566 1070962 ROMA PIAZZA DELLE CAMELIE
2451500 1076660 ROMA PIAZZA DI PRISCILLA
2447346 1076534 ROMA PIAZZA LAURO DE BOSIS
2447584 1076916 ROMA PIAZZALE MARESCIALLO DIAZ
2447584 1076916 ROMA PIAZZALE MARESCIALLO DIAZ
2448307 1075184 ROMA PIAZZA MONTE GRAPPA
2445891 1072333 ROMA PIAZZA PIO XI
2447714 1078540 ROMA PIAZZA STEFANO JACINI

Thanks for all.

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