image space chipping operations with ground coords.

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image space chipping operations with ground coords.

David Burken
All,

We've had request to do image space chipping operations with ground
coords.  I added the "chip" --op mode to ossim-chipper (used to be
ossim-dem).

So you can do:

// Ortho:
ossim-chipper --op ortho --scale-to-8-bit --histogram-op auto-minmax
--cut-center-llwh -42.885574916144428 147.32550583428636 512 512
5V090205P0001912234B220000100152M_001508509.ntf outputs/ortho.png

// Image space "chip" mode with "up is up" turned on:
ossim-chipper --op chip -u --scale-to-8-bit --histogram-op auto-minmax
--cut-center-llwh -42.885574916144428 147.32550583428636 512 512
5V090205P0001912234B220000100152M_001508509.ntf outputs/chip-upisup.png

Results:

// Orho:
http://download.osgeo.org/ossim/screenshots/ortho.png

// Chip with rotation:
http://download.osgeo.org/ossim/screenshots/chip-upisup.png

Take care,
Dave


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Re: image space chipping operations with ground coords.

Peter Borissow
Hey Dave-
    Couple questions:

(1) Don't we already have this capability in ossim-orthoigen? In EarthWhere, we used orthoigen to chip images with vector data (e.g. shapefiles, GeoJSON, etc), or with a tiling template. Here's a presentation I created back in 2010 to help explain some of the chipping options:
http://trac.osgeo.org/ossim/raw-attachment/wiki/orthoigen/Chipping.pdf

What does the new "chipper" do that orthoigen doesn't do?


(2) Why overload and rename the ossim-dem tool? It would really be nice to have a command line tool specific for elevation data to generate shaded relief, color ramp, etc. In fact, I hoped to build upon the ossim-dem tool one day to add slope, aspect, impedance, etc. Is there any way to get the ossim-dem tool back?

Thanks!
Peter

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Re: image space chipping operations with ground coords.

David Burken
Hi Peter,

See below.

On 03/09/2013 03:41 PM, Peter Borissow wrote:
> Hey Dave-
>
>      Couple questions:
>
> (1) Don't we already have this capability in ossim-orthoigen? In EarthWhere, we used orthoigen to chip images with vector data (e.g. shapefiles, GeoJSON, etc), or with a tiling template. Here's a presentation I created back in 2010 to help explain some of the chipping options:
> http://trac.osgeo.org/ossim/raw-attachment/wiki/orthoigen/Chipping.pdf
>
> What does the new "chipper" do that orthoigen doesn't do?
orthoigen doesn't do raw image space operations on, e.g. an image with
an rpc sensor model.  Not that I know of anyway.  The request was for
raw image data, un-ortho'd.
>
> (2) Why overload and rename the ossim-dem tool? It would really be nice to have a command line tool specific for elevation data to generate shaded relief, color ramp, etc. In fact, I hoped to build upon the ossim-dem tool one day to add slope, aspect, impedance, etc. Is there any way to get the ossim-dem tool back?
By it's nature, ossim-dem became very similar to orthoigen, just calls
different code under the hood.  If you remember you wanted it to be a
new app so I wrote it from scratch.  ossim-dem is still there.  I never
liked that name though. It doesn't do just elevation specific stuff and
can do almost anything orthoigen can do.  In fact, I could roll all
ossim-icp functionality into ossim-chipper now very easily.

Anyway I didn't want to hack orthoigen to do the image space chipping.  
To dangerous and might break the EW test.  Since I wrote ossim-dem it
was easier for me to modify it for this.

Hope that makes sense,
Dave

>
> Thanks!
> Peter
>


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endpoint security space. For insight on selecting the right partner to
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Re: image space chipping operations with ground coords.

Peter Borissow
Interesting. So it sounds like you can take an unprojected, unrectified image, crop it in image space, and generate a unprojected,
unrectified output. For example, take a unrectified raw scene from a satellite and crop it without orthorectification.

The challenge with that is preserving all the metadata and sensor data. Are you preserving this information or are you just outputting "dumb" images. Assuming you are preserving this information:

 - What file formats are supported? Can you take a TIFF with external sensor information and generate a NITF with embedded RPCs?

 - What sensor models are supported. RPC only?

 - If the source data is in one directory and you generate a chip in another directory, do you copy all the support data into the output directory?

A wiki post to explain all this would be great!

If this capability is what I think it is, it would be a great addition to ossim.


As for renaming one of my favorite command line apps (formally ossim-dem), I guess I'll just have to live with it. Its just completely counter intuitive that you would find terrain processing and visualization in a tool called "ossim-chipper". Frankly, I think a better home for your new chipping capability would be ossim-icp. A distant second would be ossim-orthoigen with something like a "--no-ortho" command line option.


Hope you don't take all this the wrong way. Just my 2 cents for whatever its worth. Definitely appreciate all your hard work!


Take Care,
Peter



From: David Burken <[hidden email]>
To: Peter Borissow <[hidden email]>
Cc: Ossim users <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2013 6:25 PM
Subject: Re: [OSSIM] image space chipping operations with ground coords.

Hi Peter,

See below.

On 03/09/2013 03:41 PM, Peter Borissow wrote:
> Hey Dave-
>
>      Couple questions:
>
> (1) Don't we already have this capability in ossim-orthoigen? In EarthWhere, we used orthoigen to chip images with vector data (e.g. shapefiles, GeoJSON, etc), or with a tiling template. Here's a presentation I created back in 2010 to help explain some of the chipping options:
> http://trac.osgeo.org/ossim/raw-attachment/wiki/orthoigen/Chipping.pdf
>
> What does the new "chipper" do that orthoigen doesn't do?
orthoigen doesn't do raw image space operations on, e.g. an image with an rpc sensor model.  Not that I know of anyway.  The request was for raw image data, un-ortho'd.
>
> (2) Why overload and rename the ossim-dem tool? It would really be nice to have a command line tool specific for elevation data to generate shaded relief, color ramp, etc. In fact, I hoped to build upon the ossim-dem tool one day to add slope, aspect, impedance, etc. Is there any way to get the ossim-dem tool back?
By it's nature, ossim-dem became very similar to orthoigen, just calls different code under the hood.  If you remember you wanted it to be a new app so I wrote it from scratch.  ossim-dem is still there.  I never liked that name though. It doesn't do just elevation specific stuff and can do almost anything orthoigen can do.  In fact, I could roll all ossim-icp functionality into ossim-chipper now very easily.

Anyway I didn't want to hack orthoigen to do the image space chipping.  To dangerous and might break the EW test.  Since I wrote ossim-dem it was easier for me to modify it for this.

Hope that makes sense,
Dave

>
> Thanks!
> Peter
>




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Wave(TM): Endpoint Security, Q1 2013 and "remains a good choice" in the  
endpoint security space. For insight on selecting the right partner to
tackle endpoint security challenges, access the full report.
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Re: image space chipping operations with ground coords.

Garrett Potts-2
Hello Peter:


The chipper in it's current state is not a sub image preserving engine.  It's initial use is to satisfy cutting an image and allow choosing between "up-is-up", or "north".   These are typically done in image space so pixels are not warped and image analysis can still be done. 


Take care

Garrett
On Mar 10, 2013, at 7:50 AM, Peter Borissow <[hidden email]> wrote:

Interesting. So it sounds like you can take an unprojected, unrectified image, crop it in image space, and generate a unprojected,
unrectified output. For example, take a unrectified raw scene from a satellite and crop it without orthorectification.

The challenge with that is preserving all the metadata and sensor data. Are you preserving this information or are you just outputting "dumb" images. Assuming you are preserving this information:

 - What file formats are supported? Can you take a TIFF with external sensor information and generate a NITF with embedded RPCs?

 - What sensor models are supported. RPC only?

 - If the source data is in one directory and you generate a chip in another directory, do you copy all the support data into the output directory?

A wiki post to explain all this would be great!

If this capability is what I think it is, it would be a great addition to ossim.


As for renaming one of my favorite command line apps (formally ossim-dem), I guess I'll just have to live with it. Its just completely counter intuitive that you would find terrain processing and visualization in a tool called "ossim-chipper". Frankly, I think a better home for your new chipping capability would be ossim-icp. A distant second would be ossim-orthoigen with something like a "--no-ortho" command line option.


Hope you don't take all this the wrong way. Just my 2 cents for whatever its worth. Definitely appreciate all your hard work!


Take Care,
Peter



From: David Burken <[hidden email]>
To: Peter Borissow <[hidden email]>
Cc: Ossim users <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, March 9, 2013 6:25 PM
Subject: Re: [OSSIM] image space chipping operations with ground coords.

Hi Peter,

See below.

On 03/09/2013 03:41 PM, Peter Borissow wrote:
> Hey Dave-
>
>      Couple questions:
>
> (1) Don't we already have this capability in ossim-orthoigen? In EarthWhere, we used orthoigen to chip images with vector data (e.g. shapefiles, GeoJSON, etc), or with a tiling template. Here's a presentation I created back in 2010 to help explain some of the chipping options:
> http://trac.osgeo.org/ossim/raw-attachment/wiki/orthoigen/Chipping.pdf
>
> What does the new "chipper" do that orthoigen doesn't do?
orthoigen doesn't do raw image space operations on, e.g. an image with an rpc sensor model.  Not that I know of anyway.  The request was for raw image data, un-ortho'd.
>
> (2) Why overload and rename the ossim-dem tool? It would really be nice to have a command line tool specific for elevation data to generate shaded relief, color ramp, etc. In fact, I hoped to build upon the ossim-dem tool one day to add slope, aspect, impedance, etc. Is there any way to get the ossim-dem tool back?
By it's nature, ossim-dem became very similar to orthoigen, just calls different code under the hood.  If you remember you wanted it to be a new app so I wrote it from scratch.  ossim-dem is still there.  I never liked that name though. It doesn't do just elevation specific stuff and can do almost anything orthoigen can do.  In fact, I could roll all ossim-icp functionality into ossim-chipper now very easily.

Anyway I didn't want to hack orthoigen to do the image space chipping.  To dangerous and might break the EW test.  Since I wrote ossim-dem it was easier for me to modify it for this.

Hope that makes sense,
Dave

>
> Thanks!
> Peter
>



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Symantec Endpoint Protection 12 positioned as A LEADER in The Forrester  
Wave(TM): Endpoint Security, Q1 2013 and "remains a good choice" in the  
endpoint security space. For insight on selecting the right partner to
tackle endpoint security challenges, access the full report.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/symantec-dev2dev_______________________________________________
www.ossim.org
Ossim-developer mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ossim-developer


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Wave(TM): Endpoint Security, Q1 2013 and "remains a good choice" in the  
endpoint security space. For insight on selecting the right partner to
tackle endpoint security challenges, access the full report.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/symantec-dev2dev
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