[gdal-dev] spatialite on Debian: neither lwgeom nor rttopo

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[gdal-dev] spatialite on Debian: neither lwgeom nor rttopo

Tobias Wendorff
Hi there!

Did anyone recognize that stable and unstable Debian neither builds
lwgeom nor rttopo in libspatialite by default?

This means: no ST-functions using SQLite dialect.

For lwgeom it might be disabled due to licensing problems. spatialite's
support for rttopo might be unstable, so this is for homebrew only.
But nobody can test it, since it's also disabled by default.

If you manually enable lwgeom in the Debian sources and rebuild the
package, everything works as expected... Didn't try for rttopo, but
should behave equal.

Best regards,
Tobias

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Re: spatialite on Debian: neither lwgeom nor rttopo

Sebastiaan Couwenberg
On 02/18/2018 11:18 PM, Tobias Wendorff wrote:
> Did anyone recognize that stable and unstable Debian neither builds
> lwgeom nor rttopo in libspatialite by default?

lwgeom support was disabled to untangle the circular dependency as
documented in the spatialite changelog:

 - Drop build dependency on liblwgeom-dev to untangle
   spatialite->postgis->gdal->spatialite circular dependency.

rttopo support will be available in the next spatialite release, but
it's taking forever to get past 4.4.0-rc1.

There will most likely never be a 4.4.0 final release, and I've also
heard talk about skipping 4.5.0 in favor of going for 5.0.0 instead.

As long as there is no rttopo support in the released spatialite, the
Debian package will not enable the support.

The rttopo 1.1.0 final release also hasn't been published yet, this is
all still work in process in preparation of proper topo support in
spatialite.

> This means: no ST-functions using SQLite dialect.
>
> For lwgeom it might be disabled due to licensing problems. spatialite's
> support for rttopo might be unstable, so this is for homebrew only.
> But nobody can test it, since it's also disabled by default.

There is no license problem, there is a dependency problem.

> If you manually enable lwgeom in the Debian sources and rebuild the
> package, everything works as expected... Didn't try for rttopo, but
> should behave equal.

Your system will fail to do distribution upgrades to newer stable
releases. Even updating your systems to get the newer postgis or gdal
packages will fail (assuming your on testing/unstable).

You're very much on your own if you choose to re-instate the circular
dependency. As they say: when it breaks you get to keep the pieces.

Kind Regards,

Bas
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Re: spatialite on Debian: neither lwgeom nor rttopo

Tobias Wendorff
Hi Sebastiaan,

Am Mo, 19.02.2018, 07:40 schrieb Sebastiaan Couwenberg:
> lwgeom support was disabled to untangle the circular dependency as
> documented in the spatialite changelog:
>
>  - Drop build dependency on liblwgeom-dev to untangle
>    spatialite->postgis->gdal->spatialite circular dependency.

Please excuse my amateurism, but could you explain this in more detail?
I do have a certain understanding of the matter, but I've never had
anything to do with such circular dependencies.

> rttopo support will be available in the next spatialite release, but
> it's taking forever to get past 4.4.0-rc1.

Yes, I have already noticed this: the project has been stagnating
since 2015, but in the last few weeks there have been some bugfixes.

> As long as there is no rttopo support in the released spatialite, the
> Debian package will not enable the support.

I made a backport out of 4.4 RC0 from the experimental branch.
Here it works so far (in a chroot of course).

> You're very much on your own if you choose to re-instate the circular
> dependency. As they say: when it breaks you get to keep the pieces.

Okay, then I keep running my own backport in the chroot. I was just
surprised that so far there has been no major outcry, that it does
not work.

btw: The background was, by the way, that I wanted to run my scripts
coded under the use of OSGeo4W in Debian. I was constantly informed
about missing ST functions :)

Best,
Tobias

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Re: spatialite on Debian: neither lwgeom nor rttopo

Sebastiaan Couwenberg
On 2018-02-19 15:40, Tobias Wendorff wrote:

> Am Mo, 19.02.2018, 07:40 schrieb Sebastiaan Couwenberg:
>> lwgeom support was disabled to untangle the circular dependency as
>> documented in the spatialite changelog:
>>
>>  - Drop build dependency on liblwgeom-dev to untangle
>>    spatialite->postgis->gdal->spatialite circular dependency.
>
> Please excuse my amateurism, but could you explain this in more detail?
> I do have a certain understanding of the matter, but I've never had
> anything to do with such circular dependencies.

Packages involved in the circular dependency cannot be updated because
the old versions are kept around.

See:

  https://lists.debian.org/debian-gis/2016/02/msg00017.html
  https://lists.debian.org/debian-gis/2015/08/msg00061.html

When performing a distribution upgrade apt will need to update
libspatialite, which involves removing the old version and installing
the new.

This will not be possible because gdal requires libspatialite to be
installed.

Removing gdal before upgrading libspatialite is not possible because
postgis requires gdal to be installed.

Removing postgis before upgrading libspatialite and gdal is not possible
because libspatialite requires (liblwgeom from) postgis to be installed.

Kind Regards,

Bas
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Re: spatialite on Debian: neither lwgeom nor rttopo

Tobias Wendorff
Am Mo, 19.02.2018, 16:01 schrieb Bas Couwenberg:
> Packages involved in the circular dependency cannot be updated because
> the old versions are kept around.
>
> See:

[snip]

Thanks for your kind and detailed explanation. I will continue to
build and use it in a chroot :)

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