[gdal-dev] Support for S-100 and S-102

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[gdal-dev] Support for S-100 and S-102

Magee, Kelly

Hi,

I know GDAL/OGR supports S-57 format, but could not see where it supports S-100.

Is there a plan to support the latest IHO S-100 and S-102 standards in the near future?

Regards,

Kelly Magee


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phone: 401.847.4210
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Re: Support for S-100 and S-102

Even Rouault-2
Kelly,

>
> I know GDAL/OGR supports S-57 format, but could not see where it supports
> S-100.
>
> Is there a plan to support the latest IHO S-100 and S-102 standards in the
> near future?

I'm not aware of anyone working on that currently.

I had difficulties finding concrete documentation about those standards
(specification and test products). From my quick search, it looks like :
- S-100 is a conceptual model,
- S-101 is for ENC encoding, a successor of S-57. Apparently still using
ISO-8211 for low level encoding.
- S-102 is bathymetric grid encoding in GeoTIFF or in BAG. So should be
already handled by GDAL

Even

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Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Support for S-100 and S-102

Magee, Kelly
Evan,

Thanks for the reply, Do agree with you about the difficulty in finding concrete documentation.  There's plenty of enthusiasm and discussion regarding S-100, 101, 102 as the replacement for S-57 but that's about it.  Looking to see if there was a plan but it sounds like until things are well established this may be a ways off.  Do you know if there's a working group within the community that specifically monitors the IHO specs?

Thanks again,

- Kelly

On 07/05/2018 01:43 PM, Even Rouault wrote:
Kelly,

I know GDAL/OGR supports S-57 format, but could not see where it supports
S-100.

Is there a plan to support the latest IHO S-100 and S-102 standards in the
near future?
I'm not aware of anyone working on that currently.

I had difficulties finding concrete documentation about those standards 
(specification and test products). From my quick search, it looks like :
- S-100 is a conceptual model,
- S-101 is for ENC encoding, a successor of S-57. Apparently still using 
ISO-8211 for low level encoding.
- S-102 is bathymetric grid encoding in GeoTIFF or in BAG. So should be 
already handled by GDAL

Even


--

William Kelly Magee | Leidos

Senior Software Engineer | Maritime Solutions Division

phone: 401.847.4210
[hidden email][hidden email]| leidos.com/maritime


This email and any attachments to it are intended only for the identified recipients. It may contain proprietary or otherwise legally protected information of Leidos. Any unauthorized use or disclosure of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and delete or otherwise destroy the email and all attachments immediately.




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Re: Support for S-100 and S-102

Kurt Schwehr-2
In reply to this post by Even Rouault-2
I'd be happy to connect anyone with the folks at NOAA, CCOM-JHC, and elsewhere who have been participating in drafting S-10x.  I only sat in on a few of the meetings long ago.

Specs should eventually end up here...https://www.iho.int/iho_pubs/IHO_Download.htm#S-100

On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 10:43 AM, Even Rouault <[hidden email]> wrote:
Kelly,

>
> I know GDAL/OGR supports S-57 format, but could not see where it supports
> S-100.
>
> Is there a plan to support the latest IHO S-100 and S-102 standards in the
> near future?

I'm not aware of anyone working on that currently.

I had difficulties finding concrete documentation about those standards
(specification and test products). From my quick search, it looks like :
- S-100 is a conceptual model,
- S-101 is for ENC encoding, a successor of S-57. Apparently still using
ISO-8211 for low level encoding.
- S-102 is bathymetric grid encoding in GeoTIFF or in BAG. So should be
already handled by GDAL

Even

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Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Support for S-100 and S-102

kusala nine
In reply to this post by Magee, Kelly
Hi - I don’t post a lot to this group but I work extensively with the IHO and the group developing S-100. It’s a fairly broad framework standard with multiple product specifications emerging from it and its own GML profile included in the encodings. Iso8211 is another encoding included in the main standard and would be a great place to start with any interoperability effort. S-100 ed4 is just being drafted - if anyone’s interested in building any compatible tools please get in touch, we’d be really keen to work with developers on it as we use the Gdal drivers extensively in the community....

Cheers

Jonathan
IIC technologies.

Sent from my iPhone

On 5 Jul 2018, at 21:12, Magee, Kelly <[hidden email]> wrote:

Evan,

Thanks for the reply, Do agree with you about the difficulty in finding concrete documentation.  There's plenty of enthusiasm and discussion regarding S-100, 101, 102 as the replacement for S-57 but that's about it.  Looking to see if there was a plan but it sounds like until things are well established this may be a ways off.  Do you know if there's a working group within the community that specifically monitors the IHO specs?

Thanks again,

- Kelly

On 07/05/2018 01:43 PM, Even Rouault wrote:
Kelly,

I know GDAL/OGR supports S-57 format, but could not see where it supports
S-100.

Is there a plan to support the latest IHO S-100 and S-102 standards in the
near future?
I'm not aware of anyone working on that currently.

I had difficulties finding concrete documentation about those standards 
(specification and test products). From my quick search, it looks like :
- S-100 is a conceptual model,
- S-101 is for ENC encoding, a successor of S-57. Apparently still using 
ISO-8211 for low level encoding.
- S-102 is bathymetric grid encoding in GeoTIFF or in BAG. So should be 
already handled by GDAL

Even


--

William Kelly Magee | Leidos

Senior Software Engineer | Maritime Solutions Division

phone: 401.847.4210
[hidden email][hidden email]| leidos.com/maritime


<kmagee-signature_html_2d3ec5e1.gif>

This email and any attachments to it are intended only for the identified recipients. It may contain proprietary or otherwise legally protected information of Leidos. Any unauthorized use or disclosure of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and delete or otherwise destroy the email and all attachments immediately.



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Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Support for S-100 and S-102

sji367
Hi all,

I would be happy to connect anyone from GDAL development to CCOM-JHC as I
am a grad student there.

Thanks,
Sam



From: gdal-dev [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
kusala nine
Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2018 6:47 PM
To: Magee, Kelly <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [gdal-dev] EXTERNAL: Re: Support for S-100 and S-102

Hi - I don’t post a lot to this group but I work extensively with the IHO
and the group developing S-100. It’s a fairly broad framework standard
with multiple product specifications emerging from it and its own GML
profile included in the encodings. Iso8211 is another encoding included in
the main standard and would be a great place to start with any
interoperability effort. S-100 ed4 is just being drafted - if anyone’s
interested in building any compatible tools please get in touch, we’d be
really keen to work with developers on it as we use the Gdal drivers
extensively in the community....

Cheers

Jonathan
IIC technologies.
Sent from my iPhone

On 5 Jul 2018, at 21:12, Magee, Kelly <[hidden email]> wrote:
Evan,

Thanks for the reply, Do agree with you about the difficulty in finding
concrete documentation.  There's plenty of enthusiasm and discussion
regarding S-100, 101, 102 as the replacement for S-57 but that's about it.
 Looking to see if there was a plan but it sounds like until things are
well established this may be a ways off.  Do you know if there's a working
group within the community that specifically monitors the IHO specs?

Thanks again,

- Kelly

On 07/05/2018 01:43 PM, Even Rouault wrote:
Kelly,

I know GDAL/OGR supports S-57 format, but could not see where it supports
S-100.

Is there a plan to support the latest IHO S-100 and S-102 standards in the
near future?
I'm not aware of anyone working on that currently.

I had difficulties finding concrete documentation about those standards
(specification and test products). From my quick search, it looks like :
- S-100 is a conceptual model,
- S-101 is for ENC encoding, a successor of S-57. Apparently still using
ISO-8211 for low level encoding.
- S-102 is bathymetric grid encoding in GeoTIFF or in BAG. So should be
already handled by GDAL

Even


--
William Kelly Magee | Leidos
Senior Software Engineer | Maritime Solutions Division
phone: 401.847.4210
[hidden email] | leidos.com/maritime

<kmagee-signature_html_2d3ec5e1.gif>
This email and any attachments to it are intended only for the identified
recipients. It may contain proprietary or otherwise legally protected
information of Leidos. Any unauthorized use or disclosure of this
communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
communication in error, please notify the sender and delete or otherwise
destroy the email and all attachments immediately.

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Re: Support for S-100 and S-102

Even Rouault-2
In reply to this post by Kurt Schwehr-2
All,

I've committed in GDAL master various improvements in the BAG driver, around
two main directions:
- read support for variable resolution BAG, with resampling and interpolation
options
- creating of (single resolution) BAG files from other GDAL datasets

Updated documentation available at https://gdal.org/frmt_bag.html

This work has been made possible through NOAA funding.

Best regards,

Even


> I'd be happy to connect anyone with the folks at NOAA, CCOM-JHC, and
> elsewhere who have been participating in drafting S-10x.  I only sat in on
> a few of the meetings long ago.
>
> Specs should eventually end up here...
> https://www.iho.int/iho_pubs/IHO_Download.htm#S-100
>
> On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 10:43 AM, Even Rouault <[hidden email]>
>
> wrote:
> > Kelly,
> >
> > > I know GDAL/OGR supports S-57 format, but could not see where it
> > > supports
> > > S-100.
> > >
> > > Is there a plan to support the latest IHO S-100 and S-102 standards in
> >
> > the
> >
> > > near future?
> >
> > I'm not aware of anyone working on that currently.
> >
> > I had difficulties finding concrete documentation about those standards
> > (specification and test products). From my quick search, it looks like :
> > - S-100 is a conceptual model,
> > - S-101 is for ENC encoding, a successor of S-57. Apparently still using
> > ISO-8211 for low level encoding.
> > - S-102 is bathymetric grid encoding in GeoTIFF or in BAG. So should be
> > already handled by GDAL
> >
> > Even
> >
> > --
> > Spatialys - Geospatial professional services
> > http://www.spatialys.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > gdal-dev mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/gdal-dev


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Re: Support for S-100 and S-102

kusala nine
The biggest work item for S-100 compatibility would be an update to the GDAL/OGR drivers for iso8211 in order to parse the S-101 iso8211 encoding. S-101 is the candidate replacement for S-57 ENC data - so, at some point all of NOAA's S-57 marine data will be available as S-101 datasets too. There's various improvements in S-101 over the old S-57 standard including dynamic feature catalogues and complex attributes on features but the main issue is that the iso8211 encoding uses concatenated iso8211 data structures (where you can have repeated field/subfields concatenated with simple (i.e non-repeating ones)). The current GDAL I believe doesn't parse these correctly so can't be used to parse S-101 data. I am invovled with the IHO team developing the standard but the main data format/spec and encoding are all pretty much done and there are converters/datasets available if anyone is able to take on the work - not sure if there's NOAA funding for it? It would be a huge step forward in the rollout to have an open source parser for this data....

Jonathan.

On 29 August 2018 at 20:41, Even Rouault <[hidden email]> wrote:
All,

I've committed in GDAL master various improvements in the BAG driver, around
two main directions:
- read support for variable resolution BAG, with resampling and interpolation
options
- creating of (single resolution) BAG files from other GDAL datasets

Updated documentation available at https://gdal.org/frmt_bag.html

This work has been made possible through NOAA funding.

Best regards,

Even


> I'd be happy to connect anyone with the folks at NOAA, CCOM-JHC, and
> elsewhere who have been participating in drafting S-10x.  I only sat in on
> a few of the meetings long ago.
>
> Specs should eventually end up here...
> https://www.iho.int/iho_pubs/IHO_Download.htm#S-100
>
> On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 10:43 AM, Even Rouault <[hidden email]>
>
> wrote:
> > Kelly,
> >
> > > I know GDAL/OGR supports S-57 format, but could not see where it
> > > supports
> > > S-100.
> > >
> > > Is there a plan to support the latest IHO S-100 and S-102 standards in
> >
> > the
> >
> > > near future?
> >
> > I'm not aware of anyone working on that currently.
> >
> > I had difficulties finding concrete documentation about those standards
> > (specification and test products). From my quick search, it looks like :
> > - S-100 is a conceptual model,
> > - S-101 is for ENC encoding, a successor of S-57. Apparently still using
> > ISO-8211 for low level encoding.
> > - S-102 is bathymetric grid encoding in GeoTIFF or in BAG. So should be
> > already handled by GDAL
> >
> > Even
> >
> > --
> > Spatialys - Geospatial professional services
> > http://www.spatialys.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > gdal-dev mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/gdal-dev


--
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http://www.spatialys.com
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Re: Support for S-100 and S-102

Mike Swope
The multiple field/subfields - I think gdal already does this for S-57 on DSID. It just prefixes the subfields with the field name. 

However -side note:  it seems the DSID_ISDT (issue date) is incorrect, it just has the same value as DSID_UADT (update application date).  

On Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 4:27 AM kusala nine <[hidden email]> wrote:
The biggest work item for S-100 compatibility would be an update to the GDAL/OGR drivers for iso8211 in order to parse the S-101 iso8211 encoding. S-101 is the candidate replacement for S-57 ENC data - so, at some point all of NOAA's S-57 marine data will be available as S-101 datasets too. There's various improvements in S-101 over the old S-57 standard including dynamic feature catalogues and complex attributes on features but the main issue is that the iso8211 encoding uses concatenated iso8211 data structures (where you can have repeated field/subfields concatenated with simple (i.e non-repeating ones)). The current GDAL I believe doesn't parse these correctly so can't be used to parse S-101 data. I am invovled with the IHO team developing the standard but the main data format/spec and encoding are all pretty much done and there are converters/datasets available if anyone is able to take on the work - not sure if there's NOAA funding for it? It would be a huge step forward in the rollout to have an open source parser for this data....

Jonathan.

On 29 August 2018 at 20:41, Even Rouault <[hidden email]> wrote:
All,

I've committed in GDAL master various improvements in the BAG driver, around
two main directions:
- read support for variable resolution BAG, with resampling and interpolation
options
- creating of (single resolution) BAG files from other GDAL datasets

Updated documentation available at https://gdal.org/frmt_bag.html

This work has been made possible through NOAA funding.

Best regards,

Even


> I'd be happy to connect anyone with the folks at NOAA, CCOM-JHC, and
> elsewhere who have been participating in drafting S-10x.  I only sat in on
> a few of the meetings long ago.
>
> Specs should eventually end up here...
> https://www.iho.int/iho_pubs/IHO_Download.htm#S-100
>
> On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 10:43 AM, Even Rouault <[hidden email]>
>
> wrote:
> > Kelly,
> >
> > > I know GDAL/OGR supports S-57 format, but could not see where it
> > > supports
> > > S-100.
> > >
> > > Is there a plan to support the latest IHO S-100 and S-102 standards in
> >
> > the
> >
> > > near future?
> >
> > I'm not aware of anyone working on that currently.
> >
> > I had difficulties finding concrete documentation about those standards
> > (specification and test products). From my quick search, it looks like :
> > - S-100 is a conceptual model,
> > - S-101 is for ENC encoding, a successor of S-57. Apparently still using
> > ISO-8211 for low level encoding.
> > - S-102 is bathymetric grid encoding in GeoTIFF or in BAG. So should be
> > already handled by GDAL
> >
> > Even
> >
> > --
> > Spatialys - Geospatial professional services
> > http://www.spatialys.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > gdal-dev mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/gdal-dev


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Re: Support for S-100 and S-102

Even Rouault-2
On jeudi 30 août 2018 07:29:12 CEST Mike wrote:
> The multiple field/subfields - I think gdal already does this for S-57 on
> DSID. It just prefixes the subfields with the field name.
>
> However -side note:  it seems the DSID_ISDT (issue date) is incorrect, it
> just has the same value as DSID_UADT (update application date).

From a quick look at the driver code, I can't see an obvious copy&paste-like
error. If you believe there's a bug in the driver, and that's just not how the
dataset metadata is filled, please file an issue at
https://github.com/OSGeo/gdal/issues with an attached or linked dataset.

Even

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Re: Support for S-100 and S-102

kusala nine
In reply to this post by Mike Swope
ah - the situation you're describing is subtly different. That's when you have two 8211 fields concatenated together, so e.g the DSID/DSSI are concatenated into a single 8211 record at the head of a standard S-57 ENC.

What I'm talking about is when a single 8211 field has repeating subfield groups. So, for instance in an S-101 ENC the "Information Association field " (INAS) has the specifier (in the record DDR) 

RRNM!RRID!NIAC!NARC!IUIN\\*NATC!ATIX!PAIX!ATIN!ATVL

which represents a single set of RRNM,RRID,NIAC,NARC,IUIN subfields followed by a set of potentially repeating NATC,PAIX,ATIN,ATVL fields. These types of subfield specifiers simply don't exist in S-57 ENCs (although I believe there are isolated examples in the S-57 defence extension AML). And, of course fields are still concatenated togehter. The good news is that the whole iso8211 layer is much better documented in the S-101 spec and these specifiers make a lot more sense than the original S-57 document. the issue I was describing is that records with these repeating subfields aren't parsable with the current ogr based GDAL libraries (I think, at least they weren't the last time I tried it).  Hope that explains it better.... :-) 

J

On 30 August 2018 at 14:29, Mike <[hidden email]> wrote:
The multiple field/subfields - I think gdal already does this for S-57 on DSID. It just prefixes the subfields with the field name. 

However -side note:  it seems the DSID_ISDT (issue date) is incorrect, it just has the same value as DSID_UADT (update application date).  

On Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 4:27 AM kusala nine <[hidden email]> wrote:
The biggest work item for S-100 compatibility would be an update to the GDAL/OGR drivers for iso8211 in order to parse the S-101 iso8211 encoding. S-101 is the candidate replacement for S-57 ENC data - so, at some point all of NOAA's S-57 marine data will be available as S-101 datasets too. There's various improvements in S-101 over the old S-57 standard including dynamic feature catalogues and complex attributes on features but the main issue is that the iso8211 encoding uses concatenated iso8211 data structures (where you can have repeated field/subfields concatenated with simple (i.e non-repeating ones)). The current GDAL I believe doesn't parse these correctly so can't be used to parse S-101 data. I am invovled with the IHO team developing the standard but the main data format/spec and encoding are all pretty much done and there are converters/datasets available if anyone is able to take on the work - not sure if there's NOAA funding for it? It would be a huge step forward in the rollout to have an open source parser for this data....

Jonathan.

On 29 August 2018 at 20:41, Even Rouault <[hidden email]> wrote:
All,

I've committed in GDAL master various improvements in the BAG driver, around
two main directions:
- read support for variable resolution BAG, with resampling and interpolation
options
- creating of (single resolution) BAG files from other GDAL datasets

Updated documentation available at https://gdal.org/frmt_bag.html

This work has been made possible through NOAA funding.

Best regards,

Even


> I'd be happy to connect anyone with the folks at NOAA, CCOM-JHC, and
> elsewhere who have been participating in drafting S-10x.  I only sat in on
> a few of the meetings long ago.
>
> Specs should eventually end up here...
> https://www.iho.int/iho_pubs/IHO_Download.htm#S-100
>
> On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 10:43 AM, Even Rouault <[hidden email]>
>
> wrote:
> > Kelly,
> >
> > > I know GDAL/OGR supports S-57 format, but could not see where it
> > > supports
> > > S-100.
> > >
> > > Is there a plan to support the latest IHO S-100 and S-102 standards in
> >
> > the
> >
> > > near future?
> >
> > I'm not aware of anyone working on that currently.
> >
> > I had difficulties finding concrete documentation about those standards
> > (specification and test products). From my quick search, it looks like :
> > - S-100 is a conceptual model,
> > - S-101 is for ENC encoding, a successor of S-57. Apparently still using
> > ISO-8211 for low level encoding.
> > - S-102 is bathymetric grid encoding in GeoTIFF or in BAG. So should be
> > already handled by GDAL
> >
> > Even
> >
> > --
> > Spatialys - Geospatial professional services
> > http://www.spatialys.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > gdal-dev mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/gdal-dev


--
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http://www.spatialys.com
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Re: Support for S-100 and S-102

Mike Swope
In reply to this post by Even Rouault-2
I can't get to it right now, but the new date would be found in the update file. So this would only occur on cells with updates. If I open an update file (.001+) in a text editor, I see the date on the second line. 

I'm just using the first cell found @ www.charts.noaa.gov/ENCs/ENCsIndv.shtml (US1AK90M). That page also tells you the update application date and issue date.

I can try to submit an issue later today. 



On Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 8:54 AM Even Rouault <[hidden email]> wrote:
On jeudi 30 août 2018 07:29:12 CEST Mike wrote:
> The multiple field/subfields - I think gdal already does this for S-57 on
> DSID. It just prefixes the subfields with the field name.
>
> However -side note:  it seems the DSID_ISDT (issue date) is incorrect, it
> just has the same value as DSID_UADT (update application date).

From a quick look at the driver code, I can't see an obvious copy&paste-like
error. If you believe there's a bug in the driver, and that's just not how the
dataset metadata is filled, please file an issue at
https://github.com/OSGeo/gdal/issues with an attached or linked dataset.

Even

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