[gdal-dev] Closing remaining open Trac tickets ?

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[gdal-dev] Closing remaining open Trac tickets ?

Even Rouault-2
Hi,

As we have already more than 100 tickets open in github, I guess nobody no
longer looks at old Trac tickets.
I was wondering if we shouldn't mass close the remaining open tickets in Trac,
with a message indicating that if the issue is still current, it should be
filed on github, and assigning those tickets to a dedicated milestone "closed
due to migration to github"

Thoughts ?

Even

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Re: Closing remaining open Trac tickets ?

Kurt Schwehr-2
+1

On Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 3:28 PM Even Rouault <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

As we have already more than 100 tickets open in github, I guess nobody no
longer looks at old Trac tickets.
I was wondering if we shouldn't mass close the remaining open tickets in Trac,
with a message indicating that if the issue is still current, it should be
filed on github, and assigning those tickets to a dedicated milestone "closed
due to migration to github"

Thoughts ?

Even

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Re: Closing remaining open Trac tickets ?

jmckenna
Administrator
+1

But note that the Trac wiki pages are still used (and editable).  I
remember this situation for MapServer, and for that I spent much effort
to manually create all of the existing Trac wiki pages, onto Github, by
hand (and then we made the Trac wiki read-only).  This should be done
also for GDAL (but maybe now there is a more automated way).

-jeff



> On Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 3:28 PM Even Rouault <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     Hi,
>
>     As we have already more than 100 tickets open in github, I guess
>     nobody no
>     longer looks at old Trac tickets.
>     I was wondering if we shouldn't mass close the remaining open
>     tickets in Trac,
>     with a message indicating that if the issue is still current, it
>     should be
>     filed on github, and assigning those tickets to a dedicated
>     milestone "closed
>     due to migration to github"
>
>     Thoughts ?
>
>     Even
>
>     --
>     Spatialys - Geospatial professional services
>     http://www.spatialys.com
>     _______________________________________________
>     gdal-dev mailing list
>     [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/gdal-dev
>
>
>
> --
> --
> http://schwehr.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> gdal-dev mailing list
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Re: Closing remaining open Trac tickets ?

Even Rouault-2
On jeudi 21 mars 2019 08:45:35 CET Jeff McKenna wrote:
> +1
>
> But note that the Trac wiki pages are still used (and editable).

I only targetted tickets. Wiki pages will remain for now.
That said, with Howard during the next code sprint, we intend to experiment
moving GDAL documentation to Sphinx
( https://github.com/OSGeo/gdal/issues/1204 ) so the future of wiki pages will
have to be considered.

Even

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[gdal-dev] Trac Wiki (was: Closing remaining open Trac tickets ?)

Mateusz Loskot
In reply to this post by jmckenna
On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 at 12:45, Jeff McKenna
<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I spent much effort
> to manually create all of the existing Trac wiki pages, onto Github, by
> hand (and then we made the Trac wiki read-only).  This should be done
> also for GDAL (but maybe now there is a more automated way).

I have wondered what should be done about the Wiki pages too.
Do you think all pages qualify to be moved?

Perhaps those up to date and important should be marked
w/ "TODO: Move to GitHub" first, then it will be clear what to move.

Best regards,
--
Mateusz Loskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net
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Re: Trac Wiki (was: Closing remaining open Trac tickets ?)

Kurt Schwehr-2
If they are moved, can we put a redirect or at least leave a link to the new location?  I am sure there are a huge number of links on the interwebs to the wiki and it would be a major bummer to have those all go dead.

On Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 7:04 AM Mateusz Loskot <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 at 12:45, Jeff McKenna
<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I spent much effort
> to manually create all of the existing Trac wiki pages, onto Github, by
> hand (and then we made the Trac wiki read-only).  This should be done
> also for GDAL (but maybe now there is a more automated way).

I have wondered what should be done about the Wiki pages too.
Do you think all pages qualify to be moved?

Perhaps those up to date and important should be marked
w/ "TODO: Move to GitHub" first, then it will be clear what to move.

Best regards,
--
Mateusz Loskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net
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Re: Trac Wiki (was: Closing remaining open Trac tickets ?)

Mateusz Loskot
Surely, ant page moved can be updated with link to its new home. 
Bigger, IMHO, issue is to decide what's worth to be migrated. 
Similar issue was with zillion-page Trac wiki of Boost project, where many of pages where scratch notes, or incomplete/random garbage.

Mateusz Loskot, [hidden email]
(Sent from mobile)

On Thu, 21 Mar 2019, 15:39 Kurt Schwehr, <[hidden email]> wrote:
If they are moved, can we put a redirect or at least leave a link to the new location?  I am sure there are a huge number of links on the interwebs to the wiki and it would be a major bummer to have those all go dead.

On Thu, Mar 21, 2019, 7:04 AM Mateusz Loskot <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 at 12:45, Jeff McKenna
<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I spent much effort
> to manually create all of the existing Trac wiki pages, onto Github, by
> hand (and then we made the Trac wiki read-only).  This should be done
> also for GDAL (but maybe now there is a more automated way).

I have wondered what should be done about the Wiki pages too.
Do you think all pages qualify to be moved?

Perhaps those up to date and important should be marked
w/ "TODO: Move to GitHub" first, then it will be clear what to move.

Best regards,
--
Mateusz Loskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net
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Re: Closing remaining open Trac tickets ?

Even Rouault-2
In reply to this post by Even Rouault-2
On mercredi 20 mars 2019 23:27:49 CET Even Rouault wrote:
> Hi,
>
> As we have already more than 100 tickets open in github, I guess nobody no
> longer looks at old Trac tickets.
> I was wondering if we shouldn't mass close the remaining open tickets in
> Trac, with a message indicating that if the issue is still current, it
> should be filed on github, and assigning those tickets to a dedicated
> milestone "closed due to migration to github"
>

Mass closing just done according to above proposal.

Even

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Re: Trac Wiki (was: Closing remaining open Trac tickets ?)

Mateusz Loskot
In reply to this post by Mateusz Loskot
On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 at 14:04, Mateusz Loskot <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 at 12:45, Jeff McKenna <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > I spent much effort
> > to manually create all of the existing Trac wiki pages, onto Github, by
> > hand (and then we made the Trac wiki read-only).  This should be done
> > also for GDAL (but maybe now there is a more automated way).
>
> I have wondered what should be done about the Wiki pages too.
> Do you think all pages qualify to be moved?
> [...]

First, the Wiki on https://github.com/OSGeo/gdal would have to be enabled.

Is this OK to turn it on or it is off for a reason?

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--
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Re: Trac Wiki (was: Closing remaining open Trac tickets ?)

Even Rouault-2
On mardi 26 mars 2019 11:18:21 CET Mateusz Loskot wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 at 14:04, Mateusz Loskot <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 at 12:45, Jeff McKenna <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> > > I spent much effort
> > > to manually create all of the existing Trac wiki pages, onto Github, by
> > > hand (and then we made the Trac wiki read-only).  This should be done
> > > also for GDAL (but maybe now there is a more automated way).
> >
> > I have wondered what should be done about the Wiki pages too.
> > Do you think all pages qualify to be moved?
> > [...]
>
> First, the Wiki on https://github.com/OSGeo/gdal would have to be enabled.
>
> Is this OK to turn it on or it is off for a reason?

Yes GH wiki is off because we have the Trac wiki, and having two wikis would
be highly confusing.

The possible scenarios I see:
1) status quo with Trac wiki
2) migrate all or almost all content from Trac wiki to GitHub wiki, and kill
Trac wiki
3) migrate part of Trac wiki to the future official RST doc, abandon&kill
remaining non relevant info, and have no wiki at all. In the final state, the
whole doc is the RST doc (PROJ current situation)
4) migrate part of Trac wiki to the future official RST doc, migrate remaining
doc to gitub wiki, and kill Trac wiki.

3) or 4) would seem the most preferable outcome to me.

Even

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Re: Trac Wiki (was: Closing remaining open Trac tickets ?)

Mateusz Loskot
On Tue, 26 Mar 2019, 11:58 Even Rouault, <[hidden email]> wrote:
On mardi 26 mars 2019 11:18:21 CET Mateusz Loskot wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 at 14:04, Mateusz Loskot <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On Thu, 21 Mar 2019 at 12:45, Jeff McKenna <[hidden email]>
wrote:
> > > I spent much effort
> > > to manually create all of the existing Trac wiki pages, onto Github, by
> > > hand (and then we made the Trac wiki read-only).  This should be done
> > > also for GDAL (but maybe now there is a more automated way).
> >
> > I have wondered what should be done about the Wiki pages too.
> > Do you think all pages qualify to be moved?
> > [...]
>
> First, the Wiki on https://github.com/OSGeo/gdal would have to be enabled.
>
> Is this OK to turn it on or it is off for a reason?

Yes GH wiki is off because we have the Trac wiki, and having two wikis would
be highly confusing.

The possible scenarios I see:
1) status quo with Trac wiki
2) migrate all or almost all content from Trac wiki to GitHub wiki, and kill
Trac wiki
3) migrate part of Trac wiki to the future official RST doc, abandon&kill
remaining non relevant info, and have no wiki at all. In the final state, the
whole doc is the RST doc (PROJ current situation)
4) migrate part of Trac wiki to the future official RST doc, migrate remaining
doc to gitub wiki, and kill Trac wiki.

3) or 4) would seem the most preferable outcome to me.


I agree with your preference. 
I'll be helping out with the docs then,
as we've already discussed.
Then, we decide about rest of the wiki. 

Mateusz Loskot, [hidden email]
(Sent from mobile)


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Re: Trac Wiki

jmckenna
Administrator
In reply to this post by Even Rouault-2
On 2019-03-26 8:58 AM, Even Rouault wrote:

>
> The possible scenarios I see:
> 1) status quo with Trac wiki
> 2) migrate all or almost all content from Trac wiki to GitHub wiki, and kill
> Trac wiki
> 3) migrate part of Trac wiki to the future official RST doc, abandon&kill
> remaining non relevant info, and have no wiki at all. In the final state, the
> whole doc is the RST doc (PROJ current situation)
> 4) migrate part of Trac wiki to the future official RST doc, migrate remaining
> doc to gitub wiki, and kill Trac wiki.
>
> 3) or 4) would seem the most preferable outcome to me.
>

My feedback on the #3 option:   wikis allow anyone to share their steps,
tips, and prevent the 'funnel' happening where 1 or 2 people must
approve doc changes, to the more official public site.

I prefer #4, but leave the old wiki pages in place & set them to read-only.

-jeff



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Re: Trac Wiki

Howard Butler-3


On Mar 27, 2019, at 5:56 AM, Jeff McKenna <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 2019-03-26 8:58 AM, Even Rouault wrote:
The possible scenarios I see:
1) status quo with Trac wiki
2) migrate all or almost all content from Trac wiki to GitHub wiki, and kill
Trac wiki
3) migrate part of Trac wiki to the future official RST doc, abandon&kill
remaining non relevant info, and have no wiki at all. In the final state, the
whole doc is the RST doc (PROJ current situation)
4) migrate part of Trac wiki to the future official RST doc, migrate remaining
doc to gitub wiki, and kill Trac wiki.
3) or 4) would seem the most preferable outcome to me.

My feedback on the #3 option:   wikis allow anyone to share their steps, tips, and prevent the 'funnel' happening where 1 or 2 people must approve doc changes, to the more official public site.

I prefer #4, but leave the old wiki pages in place & set them to read-only.

I prefer #3, which is also the same situation that PROJ and MapServer have. The problem with wikis is rot and they compete for attention and search engine juice with official documentation channels. The challenge with GDAL site over the years has been the process to update has been quite onerous. A Sphinx-based site with github workflow is going to help alleviate that challenge quite a bit. It certainly did for the PROJ project, and it attracted a number of contributors who otherwise were not participating. 

My proposal is at https://github.com/OSGeo/gdal/issues/1204#issue-398700112 and I plan to have automated infrastructure similar to PROJ in place by the Minneapolis Sprint https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSGeo_Community_Sprint_2019 for participants to be able to help work the task of porting over and organizing the bulk of the materials. Once that job is done, we can do some refinement in preparation for the GDAL 2.5 release. A big part of the effort will be preserving old links with redirects, but those would be main site items, not wiki articles.

Howard

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Re: Trac Wiki

Mateusz Loskot
On Wed, 27 Mar 2019 at 17:01, Howard Butler <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mar 27, 2019, at 5:56 AM, Jeff McKenna <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 2019-03-26 8:58 AM, Even Rouault wrote:
>>>
>>> 3) migrate part of Trac wiki to the future official RST doc, abandon&kill
>>> remaining non relevant info, and have no wiki at all. In the final state, the
>>> whole doc is the RST doc (PROJ current situation)
>>> 4) migrate part of Trac wiki to the future official RST doc, migrate remaining
>>> doc to gitub wiki, and kill Trac wiki.
>>> 3) or 4) would seem the most preferable outcome to me.
>>
>>
>> I prefer #4, but leave the old wiki pages in place & set them to read-only.
>
> I prefer #3, which is also the same situation that PROJ and MapServer have. The problem with wikis is rot (...)

Good point. It is so easy to propose a change via PR that wiki's
particular advantage of being openly editable diminished.

Best regards,
--
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