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Re: ecw problems

Giovanni Manghi
Hi,

> May be that there is a problem with the ERDAS Website, because the 4.2 sdk
> installer specifies that is read Only (ECWJP2SDKSetup_RO_20110303.exe).

The ERDAS free (gratis) SDK *is* read only. If you want to read and
write ecws you need a commercial license.


> Please someone of you who has the right and tested 4.1 dll's, could you send
> them to me?

I tested the procedure with the 4.1 sdk many times, especially at
training courses. The SDK unfortunately is not redistributable
(regardless the name of the folder where the dlls are copied), so it
cannot be shared freely. You must download it from the ERDAS site.

Cheers

-- Giovanni --

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Re: ecw problems

Nathan Woodrow
>>The SDK unfortunately is not redistributable
>>(regardless the name of the folder where the dlls are copied), so it
>>cannot be shared freely. 

This is very strange as a lot of other open source GIS programs ship the ecw libs with each release, uDig; MapServer; etc.  Are they breaking the licences?  

- Nathan

On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 10:15 PM, Giovanni Manghi <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

> May be that there is a problem with the ERDAS Website, because the 4.2 sdk
> installer specifies that is read Only (ECWJP2SDKSetup_RO_20110303.exe).

The ERDAS free (gratis) SDK *is* read only. If you want to read and
write ecws you need a commercial license.


> Please someone of you who has the right and tested 4.1 dll's, could you send
> them to me?

I tested the procedure with the 4.1 sdk many times, especially at
training courses. The SDK unfortunately is not redistributable
(regardless the name of the folder where the dlls are copied), so it
cannot be shared freely. You must download it from the ERDAS site.

Cheers

-- Giovanni --

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Re: ecw problems

Pietro Rossin
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Giovanni Manghi
Ok but, as i wrote above, there must be some error on ERDAS website.

The link I followed is

http://www.erdas.com/products/ecw/ERDASECWJPEG2000SDK/Downloads.aspx 

Then

ERDAS ECW/JP2 SDK Desktop Read-Only, Version 4.1
Download now!

Then, after some email confirmation, I received a file that is called "ECWJP2SDKSetup_20100920.exe"

After installation I can't find the right dll, try by yourself if you don't trust..

See you
pietro
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Re: ecw problems

Noli Sicad
In reply to this post by Nathan Woodrow
>>>The SDK unfortunately is not redistributable
>>>(regardless the name of the folder where the dlls are copied), so it
>>>cannot be shared freely.
>
> This is very strange as a lot of other open source GIS programs ship
> ecw libs with each release, uDig; MapServer; etc.  Are they breaking
> the licences?

I guess this problem is only in Windows version.

QGIS Ubuntu and Mac OS X have ecw libraries available in packages, AFAIK.

Noli
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Re: ecw problems

Giovanni Manghi

> I guess this problem is only in Windows version.
>
> QGIS Ubuntu and Mac OS X have ecw libraries available in packages, AFAIK.

the libraries for Linux/OsX are the old ones, from ER-Mapper. That SDK
has a different license that should allow redistribution.

cheers

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Re: ecw problems

Nathan Woodrow
It seems we are allowed to ship the ecw read-only SDK on windows:

"For avoidance of doubt, this Agreement does not permit You to (a) use the ERDAS ECW/JP2 SDK
Desktop Read-Only to create or distribute Server Applications or SDKs; (b) use the ERDAS ECW/JP2
SDK Desktop Read-Only to create Libraries; or (c) distribute header files or .lib Library files included in
the ERDAS ECW/JP2 SDK Desktop Read-Only. You _may_ distribute with your End Application any
dynamically loadable object Libraries (.dll files) that are included in the “redistributables” directory of
the ERDAS ECW/JP2 SDK Desktop Read-Only, and are used by your End Application.
"
I suggest that we do this. ecw is a pretty popular format and it doesn't look good on us to tell people to go to the ERDAS site to download something that may or may not work if ERDAS change the version under us.

- Nathan


On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 10:33 PM, Giovanni Manghi <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I guess this problem is only in Windows version.
>
> QGIS Ubuntu and Mac OS X have ecw libraries available in packages, AFAIK.

the libraries for Linux/OsX are the old ones, from ER-Mapper. That SDK
has a different license that should allow redistribution.

cheers

-- Giovanni --



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Re: ecw problems

Giovanni Manghi
In reply to this post by Nathan Woodrow

> This is very strange as a lot of other open source GIS programs ship
> the ecw libs with each release, uDig; MapServer; etc.  Are they
> breaking the licences?  

I'm not sure if they break the license, on the other hand how they can
be open source if they include closed software?

cheers

-- Giovanni --

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Re: ecw problems

Alister Hood
In reply to this post by Ramon Andiñach
> Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2011 12:46:03 +0000

> From: Giovanni Manghi <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Qgis-user] Re: ecw problems
> To: Nathan Woodrow <[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Message-ID: <1322829963.3342.41.camel@sibirica>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
>
> > This is very strange as a lot of other open source GIS programs ship
> > the ecw libs with each release, uDig; MapServer; etc.  Are they
> > breaking the licences?  
>
> I'm not sure if they break the license, on the other hand how they can
> be open source if they include closed software?
>
> cheers
>
> -- Giovanni --
- Some of them (like uDig) are LGPL, not GPL.  Does this make a difference here?

- I'm guessing they probably don't "include" closed software, but are just _distributed_ with it.  They are probably linked against GDAL (which has an MIT license), and distributed along with a GDAL plugin which is linked against the main GDAL library and the ECW libs.  I don't think ECW support is normally built into the main GDAL library.  I'm not sure what aspects of this are relevant ;)

Alister

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Re: ecw problems

Jürgen E. Fischer
In reply to this post by Nathan Woodrow
Hi Nathan,

On Fri, 02. Dec 2011 at 22:23:07 +1000, Nathan Woodrow wrote:
>    This is very strange as a lot of other open source GIS programs ship the
>    ecw libs with each release, uDig; MapServer; etc.  Are they breaking
>    the licences?

The windows standalone installer also includes ECW (and MrSid) support.
OSGeo4W doesn't ship the ECW/MrSid dependencies - but the OSGeo4W wiki has
clues about it.

Jürgen

--
Jürgen E. Fischer         norBIT GmbH               Tel. +49-4931-918175-20
Dipl.-Inf. (FH)           Rheinstraße 13            Fax. +49-4931-918175-50
Software Engineer         D-26506 Norden               http://www.norbit.de

--
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Rheinstrasse 13, 26506 Norden
GF: Jelto Buurman, HR: Amtsgericht Emden, HRB 5502

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Re: [Qgis-developer] Re: [Qgis-user] Re: ecw problems

Jürgen E. Fischer
In reply to this post by Nathan Woodrow
Hi Nathan,

On Fri, 02. Dec 2011 at 22:42:22 +1000, Nathan Woodrow wrote:
>    It seems we are allowed to ship the ecw read-only SDK on windows:
>    "For avoidance of doubt, this Agreement does not permit You to (a) use the
>    ERDAS ECW/JP2 SDK
>    Desktop Read-Only to create or distribute Server Applications or SDKs;

Is GDAL a SDK?  Do we need to take care not to ship it's libraries and header
files?   And to ship QGIS mapserver in a separate package as it's a server
application - which isn't allowed to have ECW support?

> (b) use the ERDAS ECW/JP2 SDK Desktop Read-Only to create Libraries;

Is GDAL a library?

> I suggest that we do this. ecw is a pretty popular format and it doesn't look
> good on us to tell people to go to the ERDAS site to download something that
> may or may not work if ERDAS change the version under us.

Fortunately I can happily live without it.   So it's cheap for me to say, that
I wouldn't like to jump to some extra packaging hoops just for some non-free
format.


Jürgen

--
Jürgen E. Fischer         norBIT GmbH               Tel. +49-4931-918175-20
Dipl.-Inf. (FH)           Rheinstraße 13            Fax. +49-4931-918175-50
Software Engineer         D-26506 Norden               http://www.norbit.de

--
norBIT Gesellschaft fuer Unternehmensberatung und Informationssysteme mbH
Rheinstrasse 13, 26506 Norden
GF: Jelto Buurman, HR: Amtsgericht Emden, HRB 5502

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Re: [Qgis-developer] Re: [Qgis-user] Re: ecw problems

Pietro Rossin
Hello  Jürgen
which kind of compressed raster do you use instead of ECW (if you use any..??
Thanks
Pietro
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Re: ecw problems

Jean-Claude Repetto-3
In reply to this post by Giovanni Manghi
Le 02/12/2011 13:15, Giovanni Manghi a écrit :
> Hi,
>
>> May be that there is a problem with the ERDAS Website, because the 4.2 sdk
>> installer specifies that is read Only (ECWJP2SDKSetup_RO_20110303.exe).
>
> The ERDAS free (gratis) SDK *is* read only. If you want to read and
> write ecws you need a commercial license.

No, if you want to read and write ECWs, you just have to install the
version 3.3 of the SDK.

Jean-Claude
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Re: [Qgis-developer] Re: [Qgis-user] Re: ecw problems

Giovanni Manghi
In reply to this post by Pietro Rossin
On Mon, 2011-12-05 at 01:15 -0800, pieri70 wrote:
> Hello  Jürgen
> which kind of compressed raster do you use instead of ECW (if you use
> any..??

try

GeoTIFF TILED=YES COMPRESS=JPEG QUALITY=75 and overviews.

cheers

-- Giovanni --

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Re: [Qgis-developer] Re: [Qgis-user] Re: ecw problems

Micha Silver
On 05/12/2011 12:40, Giovanni Manghi wrote:
On Mon, 2011-12-05 at 01:15 -0800, pieri70 wrote:
Hello  Jürgen
which kind of compressed raster do you use instead of ECW (if you use
any..??
try

GeoTIFF TILED=YES COMPRESS=JPEG QUALITY=75 and overviews.

cheers

Has anyone worked with 12 bit jpeg compression for GeoTiffs ?

I did a quick test (i.e. un-professional, just by viewing the results...) and it looked very good. Almost indistinguishable from the original tif. And the size reduction is about 85-90%. Compared with ECW or MrSid (95% compression) that's pretty good. Much better than any of the regular compression options.
A specially compiled GDAL [1] can support reading and compressing GeoTiff to 12 bit jpeg, but the format is not well supported by other software, so this is a chicken and egg thing.


[1] http://trac.osgeo.org/gdal/wiki/TIFF12BitJPEG
-- Giovanni --

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Re: ecw problems

Alister Hood
In reply to this post by Ramon Andiñach
> Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2011 10:40:32 +0000
> From: Giovanni Manghi <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Qgis-developer] Re: [Qgis-user] Re: ecw problems
> To: pieri70 <[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Message-ID: <1323081632.2277.19.camel@sibirica>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> On Mon, 2011-12-05 at 01:15 -0800, pieri70 wrote:
> > Hello  Jürgen
> > which kind of compressed raster do you use instead of ECW (if you use
> > any..??

Personally I'd try JPEG2000 (using openjpeg).  But you might need to build openjpeg and gdal yourself :(
 
> try
>
> GeoTIFF TILED=YES COMPRESS=JPEG QUALITY=75 and overviews.

Do you use JPEG compression for maximum compatibility?  I would have thought you'd get much better results with something else.


Alister
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Re: ecw problems

Pietro Rossin
Ok, but in my case I face 2 problems:
1) In my region official aerophotos are in ECW format, so I have to use this extension.
2) I must upload images for the whole region onto a netbook, so they must be cheap in terms of Mb.

Do the jpeg 2000 compression have a performance similar to ecw in terms of quality/Mb?

And GeoTIFF tiled?

pietro
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Re: ecw problems

Nick Hopton
Hi Pietro,

If you are running QGIS under Win, this might help (it's from the forum):

http://forum.qgis.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9608&sid=7b6c70408b343342b8d68570002db2e1

Regards,
Nick.
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Re: ecw problems

Pietro Rossin
This post was updated on .
Hy Nick, Thanks!

I solved the problem using 4 dll distributed by ERDAS with SDK 4.1 READ ONLY

NCScnet4.dll
NCSEcw4_RO.dll
NCSUtil4.dll
tbb.dll

I put them in "\OSGeo4W\bin"


If I don't use NCSEcw4_RO.dll I get errors by gdalinfo --formats.

The problem is that by the ERDAS website they redirect you to an SDK 4.1 (they say read only) that is missing this dll.

So you have to find it in some other place..

See you
pietro
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Re: ecw problems

Rahkonen Jukka (Tike)
In reply to this post by Alister Hood
Alister Hood <alister.hood@...> writes:

>
> > Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2011 10:40:32 +0000
> > From: Giovanni Manghi <giovanni.manghi@...>
> > Subject: Re: [Qgis-developer] Re: [Qgis-user] Re: ecw problems
> > To: pieri70 <pietro.rossin@...>
> > Cc: qgis-user@...
> > Message-ID: <1323081632.2277.19.camel <at> sibirica>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >
> > On Mon, 2011-12-05 at 01:15 -0800, pieri70 wrote:
> > > Hello  Jürgen
> > > which kind of compressed raster do you use instead of ECW (if you use
> > > any..??
>
> Personally I'd try JPEG2000 (using openjpeg).  But you might need to build
openjpeg and gdal yourself :(
>
> > try
> >
> > GeoTIFF TILED=YES COMPRESS=JPEG QUALITY=75 and overviews.
>
> Do you use JPEG compression for maximum compatibility?  I would have thought
you'd get much better results
> with something else.

JPEG-in-TIFF is by no means maximally compatible but it suits very well for
GDAL based systems, especially Mapserver. The result is not a JPEG image,
it is a TIFF image but the image data inside TIFF is compressed with JPEG
algorithm. It
is not uncommon that tiff drivers cannot open such images but GDAL has no
problems.

It is essential to use JPEG compression with tiling. JPEG must be
decompressed totally but if tiff file is split into tiles GDAL can
pick just a correct set of tiles to be decompressed.

Jpeg compressed tiffs have about same file size as ECW and JPEG2000 with
about the same visual quality but the artifacts are different. GDAL is
handling jpeg-in-tiff images at least as fast as ECW images and much faster
than JPEG2000 images even with the fastest JPEG2000 driver which is usually
JP2KAK (Kakadu)or JP2ECW (ERDAS). They are not free. JP2MrSID a third
non-free driver but I have not used it. OpenJPEG driver JP2OpenJPEG is
much better than Jasper driver JPEG2000 at least with big images.

For a desktop use I would guess that JPEG2000 with OpenJPEG driver is fast
enough. For a busy WMS server it is not so good choice.

I do not mean that JPEG2000 is slow by the nature. If used, for example, with
native Kakadu tools it is flaming fast. The problem is that JPEG2000 is very
complicated format and open source libraries are not yet as good as the best
commercial ones.

-Jukka Rahkonen-



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Re: ecw problems

andreaerdna
In reply to this post by Pietro Rossin
pieri70 wrote
Ok but, as i wrote above, there must be some error on ERDAS website.
You are right, Pietro!

It seems that ERDAS has done a bit 'of confusion...

If you try to download the "ERDAS ECW/JP2 SDK Desktop Read-Only, Version 4.1" (that is needed to make the gdal-ecw 1.8.0 plugin work) from the ERDAS website, you will be redirect to the URL http://ftp.erdas.com/sdk/ECWJP2SDKSetup_20100920.exe.

But ECWJP2SDKSetup_20100920.exe is not the right file, because it's not the Read-Only version of the 4.1 ECW SDK.

ERDAS website should instead link http://ftp.erdas.com/sdk/ECWJP2SDKSetup_RO_20100920.exe that is the right file of the "ERDAS ECW/JP2 SDK Desktop Read-Only, Version 4.1"


Hope this might help.


Andrea Giudiceandrea
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