What is "Discourage other labels from covering features in this layer" option in layer properties?

[DelazJ]

In QGIS master (524716f), Layer's Properties > Labels, where we use to select in a combobox the field to label, there is now a combobox with options like :

- No labels;

- Show labels for this layer;

- Discourage other labels from covering features in this layer.

I'd like to understand why this third option is there and what it does (since choosing it just deactivates labels properties - just like "No labels" option).

If it's supposed to set the layer features as obstacles for other layer's labels, shouldn't it be a checkbox in Labels > rendering > Obstacles?

Moreover, someone may want to show labels of a layer but discourage other layers to have their labels covering the features of the first layer. Is that possible with this configuration without duplicating the layer?

Thanks

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[Régis Haubourg]

Hi, same question here, it's not easy to understand the change, and add some overhead to classical labeling workflow.
Cheers
Régis

[Nyall Dawson]

On 2 September 2015 at 22:46, DelazJ <[hidden email]> wrote:

> In QGIS master (524716f), Layer's Properties > Labels, where we use to
> select in a combobox the field to label, there is now a combobox with
> options like :
> - No labels;
> - Show labels for this layer;
> - Discourage other labels from covering features in this layer.
> I'd like to understand why this third option is there and what it does
> (since choosing it just deactivates labels properties - just like "No
> labels" option).
> If it's supposed to set the layer features as obstacles for other layer's
> labels, shouldn't it be a checkbox in Labels > rendering > Obstacles?
> Moreover, someone may want to show labels of a layer but discourage other
> layers to have their labels covering the features of the first layer. Is
> that possible with this configuration without duplicating the layer?

There's a little more detail about the change here [1]. But basically,
in the past it was only possible for a layer to act as an obstacle for
labeling if the layer itself had labels. This isn't ideal - eg in my
current project I have a water bodies layer which isn't labelled, but
I still want to avoid labels for roads/features being placed over the
water features where possible.

So this change was made so that you can now have layers act as
obstacles without being labelled themselves. I agree that the UI for
this isn't ideal, but I couldn't come up with a better approach. This
setting needs to be grouped with the label properties, and it's also
important to make it clear that if you label a layer it can still act
as an obstacle layer.

I do have one followup change planned, which is to move the actual
widgets for configuring the obstacle behaviour (eg the obstacle
priority and polygon obstacle behaviour combobox) into a new
"obstacles" setting pane (placed under the existing
buffer/shadow/placement/... etc panes). Then this obstacle pane would
be set as the only visible pane when the mode is set to "discourage
other labels...", since the settings there apply also to obstacle-only
layers. Make sense?

I'm not tied to this approach, and am open to a better UX for this.
Mockups are welcome!

Nyall






[1] http://nyalldawson.net/2015/07/recent-labelling-improvements-in-qgis-master/


>
> Thanks
>
> _______________________________________________
> Qgis-developer mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
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[DelazJ]

Hi all,

Nyall, Thanks for the feedback and the work you've done. I read your article few weeks ago but didn't try the new functions till last day.

I agree that layer, regardless it is labelled or not, should offer the option of being an obstacle of any other layer's label. I suppose you mean that, as far as possible, labels from another layer shouldn't "touch" interior or boundary of the layer's features. I can easily figure it out for point and polyline layer but not that easy for polygon (except for boundaries). You didn't write about but would you mind explaining the expected behaviour of "Over the feature's interior" - for polygons - in "minimise placing labels" options. What can be its use case?

Sorry, I'm not an UI expert but what about adding a checkbox "Discourage other labels from covering features in this layer" in top of the old checkbox "Label this layer with" in Labels tab ? We then have two checkboxes:
- the first one manages the relation with the labels of other layers
- and the other one for labelling the layer as we use to (with its current sub-tabs).

Then the layer can be labelled and/or "obstacled" without interference. What may be difficult with this schema is that it doesn't handle the "minimise placing labels" options, unless adding a combobox after the first checkbox (available for polygons).

I think user should clearly identify whether the obstacle option is within the layer (in render tab) or against other layers (the top checkbox).

Regards,

DelazJ

2015-09-02 22:57 GMT+02:00 Nyall Dawson <[hidden email]>:

On 2 September 2015 at 22:46, DelazJ <[hidden email]> wrote:
> In QGIS master (524716f), Layer's Properties > Labels, where we use to
> select in a combobox the field to label, there is now a combobox with
> options like :
> - No labels;
> - Show labels for this layer;
> - Discourage other labels from covering features in this layer.
> I'd like to understand why this third option is there and what it does
> (since choosing it just deactivates labels properties - just like "No
> labels" option).
> If it's supposed to set the layer features as obstacles for other layer's
> labels, shouldn't it be a checkbox in Labels > rendering > Obstacles?
> Moreover, someone may want to show labels of a layer but discourage other
> layers to have their labels covering the features of the first layer. Is
> that possible with this configuration without duplicating the layer?

There's a little more detail about the change here [1]. But basically,
in the past it was only possible for a layer to act as an obstacle for
labeling if the layer itself had labels. This isn't ideal - eg in my
current project I have a water bodies layer which isn't labelled, but
I still want to avoid labels for roads/features being placed over the
water features where possible.

So this change was made so that you can now have layers act as
obstacles without being labelled themselves. I agree that the UI for
this isn't ideal, but I couldn't come up with a better approach. This
setting needs to be grouped with the label properties, and it's also
important to make it clear that if you label a layer it can still act
as an obstacle layer.

I do have one followup change planned, which is to move the actual
widgets for configuring the obstacle behaviour (eg the obstacle
priority and polygon obstacle behaviour combobox) into a new
"obstacles" setting pane (placed under the existing
buffer/shadow/placement/... etc panes). Then this obstacle pane would
be set as the only visible pane when the mode is set to "discourage
other labels...", since the settings there apply also to obstacle-only
layers. Make sense?

I'm not tied to this approach, and am open to a better UX for this.
Mockups are welcome!

Nyall






[1] http://nyalldawson.net/2015/07/recent-labelling-improvements-in-qgis-master/


>
> Thanks

>
> _______________________________________________
> Qgis-developer mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer

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[DelazJ]

hi,

I think this thread may also concern the UX list
http://osgeo-org.1560.x6.nabble.com/What-is-quot-Discourage-other-labels-from-covering-features-in-this-layer-quot-option-in-layer-prope-td5222293.html

Thanks

2015-09-10 16:38 GMT+02:00 DelazJ <[hidden email]>:

Hi all,

Nyall, Thanks for the feedback and the work you've done. I read your article few weeks ago but didn't try the new functions till last day.

I agree that layer, regardless it is labelled or not, should offer the option of being an obstacle of any other layer's label. I suppose you mean that, as far as possible, labels from another layer shouldn't "touch" interior or boundary of the layer's features. I can easily figure it out for point and polyline layer but not that easy for polygon (except for boundaries). You didn't write about but would you mind explaining the expected behaviour of "Over the feature's interior" - for polygons - in "minimise placing labels" options. What can be its use case?

Sorry, I'm not an UI expert but what about adding a checkbox "Discourage other labels from covering features in this layer" in top of the old checkbox "Label this layer with" in Labels tab ? We then have two checkboxes:
- the first one manages the relation with the labels of other layers
- and the other one for labelling the layer as we use to (with its current sub-tabs).

Then the layer can be labelled and/or "obstacled" without interference. What may be difficult with this schema is that it doesn't handle the "minimise placing labels" options, unless adding a combobox after the first checkbox (available for polygons).

I think user should clearly identify whether the obstacle option is within the layer (in render tab) or against other layers (the top checkbox).

Regards,

DelazJ

2015-09-02 22:57 GMT+02:00 Nyall Dawson <[hidden email]>:

On 2 September 2015 at 22:46, DelazJ <[hidden email]> wrote:
> In QGIS master (524716f), Layer's Properties > Labels, where we use to
> select in a combobox the field to label, there is now a combobox with
> options like :
> - No labels;
> - Show labels for this layer;
> - Discourage other labels from covering features in this layer.
> I'd like to understand why this third option is there and what it does
> (since choosing it just deactivates labels properties - just like "No
> labels" option).
> If it's supposed to set the layer features as obstacles for other layer's
> labels, shouldn't it be a checkbox in Labels > rendering > Obstacles?
> Moreover, someone may want to show labels of a layer but discourage other
> layers to have their labels covering the features of the first layer. Is
> that possible with this configuration without duplicating the layer?

There's a little more detail about the change here [1]. But basically,
in the past it was only possible for a layer to act as an obstacle for
labeling if the layer itself had labels. This isn't ideal - eg in my
current project I have a water bodies layer which isn't labelled, but
I still want to avoid labels for roads/features being placed over the
water features where possible.

So this change was made so that you can now have layers act as
obstacles without being labelled themselves. I agree that the UI for
this isn't ideal, but I couldn't come up with a better approach. This
setting needs to be grouped with the label properties, and it's also
important to make it clear that if you label a layer it can still act
as an obstacle layer.

I do have one followup change planned, which is to move the actual
widgets for configuring the obstacle behaviour (eg the obstacle
priority and polygon obstacle behaviour combobox) into a new
"obstacles" setting pane (placed under the existing
buffer/shadow/placement/... etc panes). Then this obstacle pane would
be set as the only visible pane when the mode is set to "discourage
other labels...", since the settings there apply also to obstacle-only
layers. Make sense?

I'm not tied to this approach, and am open to a better UX for this.
Mockups are welcome!

Nyall






[1] http://nyalldawson.net/2015/07/recent-labelling-improvements-in-qgis-master/


>
> Thanks

>
> _______________________________________________
> Qgis-developer mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer

_______________________________________________
Qgis-developer mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer

[Anita Graser]

Thanks for bringing this up again DelazJ!

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:26 PM, DelazJ <[hidden email]> wrote:

I think this thread may also concern the UX list
http://osgeo-org.1560.x6.nabble.com/What-is-quot-Discourage-other-labels-from-covering-features-in-this-layer-quot-option-in-layer-prope-td5222293.html

​Is there a ticket for this UX issue yet? We could work on some GUI mockups for after this feature freeze.

Best wishes,

Anita​

 

Thanks

2015-09-10 16:38 GMT+02:00 DelazJ <[hidden email]>:

Hi all,

Nyall, Thanks for the feedback and the work you've done. I read your article few weeks ago but didn't try the new functions till last day.

I agree that layer, regardless it is labelled or not, should offer the option of being an obstacle of any other layer's label. I suppose you mean that, as far as possible, labels from another layer shouldn't "touch" interior or boundary of the layer's features. I can easily figure it out for point and polyline layer but not that easy for polygon (except for boundaries). You didn't write about but would you mind explaining the expected behaviour of "Over the feature's interior" - for polygons - in "minimise placing labels" options. What can be its use case?

Sorry, I'm not an UI expert but what about adding a checkbox "Discourage other labels from covering features in this layer" in top of the old checkbox "Label this layer with" in Labels tab ? We then have two checkboxes:
- the first one manages the relation with the labels of other layers
- and the other one for labelling the layer as we use to (with its current sub-tabs).

Then the layer can be labelled and/or "obstacled" without interference. What may be difficult with this schema is that it doesn't handle the "minimise placing labels" options, unless adding a combobox after the first checkbox (available for polygons).

I think user should clearly identify whether the obstacle option is within the layer (in render tab) or against other layers (the top checkbox).

Regards,

DelazJ

2015-09-02 22:57 GMT+02:00 Nyall Dawson <[hidden email]>:

On 2 September 2015 at 22:46, DelazJ <[hidden email]> wrote:
> In QGIS master (524716f), Layer's Properties > Labels, where we use to
> select in a combobox the field to label, there is now a combobox with
> options like :
> - No labels;
> - Show labels for this layer;
> - Discourage other labels from covering features in this layer.
> I'd like to understand why this third option is there and what it does
> (since choosing it just deactivates labels properties - just like "No
> labels" option).
> If it's supposed to set the layer features as obstacles for other layer's
> labels, shouldn't it be a checkbox in Labels > rendering > Obstacles?
> Moreover, someone may want to show labels of a layer but discourage other
> layers to have their labels covering the features of the first layer. Is
> that possible with this configuration without duplicating the layer?

There's a little more detail about the change here [1]. But basically,
in the past it was only possible for a layer to act as an obstacle for
labeling if the layer itself had labels. This isn't ideal - eg in my
current project I have a water bodies layer which isn't labelled, but
I still want to avoid labels for roads/features being placed over the
water features where possible.

So this change was made so that you can now have layers act as
obstacles without being labelled themselves. I agree that the UI for
this isn't ideal, but I couldn't come up with a better approach. This
setting needs to be grouped with the label properties, and it's also
important to make it clear that if you label a layer it can still act
as an obstacle layer.

I do have one followup change planned, which is to move the actual
widgets for configuring the obstacle behaviour (eg the obstacle
priority and polygon obstacle behaviour combobox) into a new
"obstacles" setting pane (placed under the existing
buffer/shadow/placement/... etc panes). Then this obstacle pane would
be set as the only visible pane when the mode is set to "discourage
other labels...", since the settings there apply also to obstacle-only
layers. Make sense?

I'm not tied to this approach, and am open to a better UX for this.
Mockups are welcome!

Nyall






[1] http://nyalldawson.net/2015/07/recent-labelling-improvements-in-qgis-master/


>
> Thanks

>
> _______________________________________________
> Qgis-developer mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer

_______________________________________________
Qgis-developer mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer

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[hidden email]
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[DelazJ]

Hi,

I'd like to know what's the current state of this issue.

I've made a suggestion of design but it was before rule-based labeling support. Anita asked for a mockup but I'm not sure I can efficiently design one; so write some ideas

Currently, you can:

- label a layer and discourage labels from other layers to cover its features

- discourage labels from other features to cover features of a not labeled layer

But what if I want to label a layer and don't want to see labels from other layers cover its features? I suppose I need to add it twice (a labeled one and a "discouraged" one).

To improve the dialog and help fix the issue above, what about :

- adding at the top of the dialog a checkbox with "Discourage other labels from covering features in this layer".

- and keeping in the current listbox : 'No Labels', 'Show labels for this layer', 'Rule-based labeling'.

These two options will be independent from each other, meaning that you can choose to "discourage other labels from covering features" (or not) for either a labeled or not labeled layer.

(Thinking loudly)

Maybe the "Discourage other labels from covering features in this layer" could be a checkable group box with the obstacles parameters moved inside.

However, I am not able to see how Obstacles features will behave in case of rule-based labeling.

Harrissou

2015-10-11 17:22 GMT+02:00 Anita Graser <[hidden email]>:

Thanks for bringing this up again DelazJ!

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:26 PM, DelazJ <[hidden email]> wrote:

I think this thread may also concern the UX list
http://osgeo-org.1560.x6.nabble.com/What-is-quot-Discourage-other-labels-from-covering-features-in-this-layer-quot-option-in-layer-prope-td5222293.html

​Is there a ticket for this UX issue yet? We could work on some GUI mockups for after this feature freeze.

Best wishes,

Anita​

 

Thanks

2015-09-10 16:38 GMT+02:00 DelazJ <[hidden email]>:

Hi all,

Nyall, Thanks for the feedback and the work you've done. I read your article few weeks ago but didn't try the new functions till last day.

I agree that layer, regardless it is labelled or not, should offer the option of being an obstacle of any other layer's label. I suppose you mean that, as far as possible, labels from another layer shouldn't "touch" interior or boundary of the layer's features. I can easily figure it out for point and polyline layer but not that easy for polygon (except for boundaries). You didn't write about but would you mind explaining the expected behaviour of "Over the feature's interior" - for polygons - in "minimise placing labels" options. What can be its use case?

Sorry, I'm not an UI expert but what about adding a checkbox "Discourage other labels from covering features in this layer" in top of the old checkbox "Label this layer with" in Labels tab ? We then have two checkboxes:
- the first one manages the relation with the labels of other layers
- and the other one for labelling the layer as we use to (with its current sub-tabs).

Then the layer can be labelled and/or "obstacled" without interference. What may be difficult with this schema is that it doesn't handle the "minimise placing labels" options, unless adding a combobox after the first checkbox (available for polygons).

I think user should clearly identify whether the obstacle option is within the layer (in render tab) or against other layers (the top checkbox).

Regards,

DelazJ

2015-09-02 22:57 GMT+02:00 Nyall Dawson <[hidden email]>:

On 2 September 2015 at 22:46, DelazJ <[hidden email]> wrote:
> In QGIS master (524716f), Layer's Properties > Labels, where we use to
> select in a combobox the field to label, there is now a combobox with
> options like :
> - No labels;
> - Show labels for this layer;
> - Discourage other labels from covering features in this layer.
> I'd like to understand why this third option is there and what it does
> (since choosing it just deactivates labels properties - just like "No
> labels" option).
> If it's supposed to set the layer features as obstacles for other layer's
> labels, shouldn't it be a checkbox in Labels > rendering > Obstacles?
> Moreover, someone may want to show labels of a layer but discourage other
> layers to have their labels covering the features of the first layer. Is
> that possible with this configuration without duplicating the layer?

There's a little more detail about the change here [1]. But basically,
in the past it was only possible for a layer to act as an obstacle for
labeling if the layer itself had labels. This isn't ideal - eg in my
current project I have a water bodies layer which isn't labelled, but
I still want to avoid labels for roads/features being placed over the
water features where possible.

So this change was made so that you can now have layers act as
obstacles without being labelled themselves. I agree that the UI for
this isn't ideal, but I couldn't come up with a better approach. This
setting needs to be grouped with the label properties, and it's also
important to make it clear that if you label a layer it can still act
as an obstacle layer.

I do have one followup change planned, which is to move the actual
widgets for configuring the obstacle behaviour (eg the obstacle
priority and polygon obstacle behaviour combobox) into a new
"obstacles" setting pane (placed under the existing
buffer/shadow/placement/... etc panes). Then this obstacle pane would
be set as the only visible pane when the mode is set to "discourage
other labels...", since the settings there apply also to obstacle-only
layers. Make sense?

I'm not tied to this approach, and am open to a better UX for this.
Mockups are welcome!

Nyall






[1] http://nyalldawson.net/2015/07/recent-labelling-improvements-in-qgis-master/


>
> Thanks

>
> _______________________________________________
> Qgis-developer mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer

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[hidden email]
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[hidden email]
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[DelazJ]

Hi,

About rule-based labeling, it just needs to put the "Discourage other labels from covering features in this layer" frame inside the "Rule properties" dialog, so that obstacles is also applied at rule level.

I open an issue report at https://hub.qgis.org/issues/14089

2016-01-06 15:39 GMT+01:00 DelazJ <[hidden email]>:

Hi,

I'd like to know what's the current state of this issue.

I've made a suggestion of design but it was before rule-based labeling support. Anita asked for a mockup but I'm not sure I can efficiently design one; so write some ideas

Currently, you can:

- label a layer and discourage labels from other layers to cover its features

- discourage labels from other features to cover features of a not labeled layer

But what if I want to label a layer and don't want to see labels from other layers cover its features? I suppose I need to add it twice (a labeled one and a "discouraged" one).

To improve the dialog and help fix the issue above, what about :

- adding at the top of the dialog a checkbox with "Discourage other labels from covering features in this layer".

- and keeping in the current listbox : 'No Labels', 'Show labels for this layer', 'Rule-based labeling'.

These two options will be independent from each other, meaning that you can choose to "discourage other labels from covering features" (or not) for either a labeled or not labeled layer.

(Thinking loudly)

Maybe the "Discourage other labels from covering features in this layer" could be a checkable group box with the obstacles parameters moved inside.

However, I am not able to see how Obstacles features will behave in case of rule-based labeling.

Harrissou

2015-10-11 17:22 GMT+02:00 Anita Graser <[hidden email]>:

Thanks for bringing this up again DelazJ!

On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 3:26 PM, DelazJ <[hidden email]> wrote:

I think this thread may also concern the UX list
http://osgeo-org.1560.x6.nabble.com/What-is-quot-Discourage-other-labels-from-covering-features-in-this-layer-quot-option-in-layer-prope-td5222293.html

​Is there a ticket for this UX issue yet? We could work on some GUI mockups for after this feature freeze.

Best wishes,

Anita​

 

Thanks

2015-09-10 16:38 GMT+02:00 DelazJ <[hidden email]>:

Hi all,

Nyall, Thanks for the feedback and the work you've done. I read your article few weeks ago but didn't try the new functions till last day.

I agree that layer, regardless it is labelled or not, should offer the option of being an obstacle of any other layer's label. I suppose you mean that, as far as possible, labels from another layer shouldn't "touch" interior or boundary of the layer's features. I can easily figure it out for point and polyline layer but not that easy for polygon (except for boundaries). You didn't write about but would you mind explaining the expected behaviour of "Over the feature's interior" - for polygons - in "minimise placing labels" options. What can be its use case?

Sorry, I'm not an UI expert but what about adding a checkbox "Discourage other labels from covering features in this layer" in top of the old checkbox "Label this layer with" in Labels tab ? We then have two checkboxes:
- the first one manages the relation with the labels of other layers
- and the other one for labelling the layer as we use to (with its current sub-tabs).

Then the layer can be labelled and/or "obstacled" without interference. What may be difficult with this schema is that it doesn't handle the "minimise placing labels" options, unless adding a combobox after the first checkbox (available for polygons).

I think user should clearly identify whether the obstacle option is within the layer (in render tab) or against other layers (the top checkbox).

Regards,

DelazJ

2015-09-02 22:57 GMT+02:00 Nyall Dawson <[hidden email]>:

On 2 September 2015 at 22:46, DelazJ <[hidden email]> wrote:
> In QGIS master (524716f), Layer's Properties > Labels, where we use to
> select in a combobox the field to label, there is now a combobox with
> options like :
> - No labels;
> - Show labels for this layer;
> - Discourage other labels from covering features in this layer.
> I'd like to understand why this third option is there and what it does
> (since choosing it just deactivates labels properties - just like "No
> labels" option).
> If it's supposed to set the layer features as obstacles for other layer's
> labels, shouldn't it be a checkbox in Labels > rendering > Obstacles?
> Moreover, someone may want to show labels of a layer but discourage other
> layers to have their labels covering the features of the first layer. Is
> that possible with this configuration without duplicating the layer?

There's a little more detail about the change here [1]. But basically,
in the past it was only possible for a layer to act as an obstacle for
labeling if the layer itself had labels. This isn't ideal - eg in my
current project I have a water bodies layer which isn't labelled, but
I still want to avoid labels for roads/features being placed over the
water features where possible.

So this change was made so that you can now have layers act as
obstacles without being labelled themselves. I agree that the UI for
this isn't ideal, but I couldn't come up with a better approach. This
setting needs to be grouped with the label properties, and it's also
important to make it clear that if you label a layer it can still act
as an obstacle layer.

I do have one followup change planned, which is to move the actual
widgets for configuring the obstacle behaviour (eg the obstacle
priority and polygon obstacle behaviour combobox) into a new
"obstacles" setting pane (placed under the existing
buffer/shadow/placement/... etc panes). Then this obstacle pane would
be set as the only visible pane when the mode is set to "discourage
other labels...", since the settings there apply also to obstacle-only
layers. Make sense?

I'm not tied to this approach, and am open to a better UX for this.
Mockups are welcome!

Nyall






[1] http://nyalldawson.net/2015/07/recent-labelling-improvements-in-qgis-master/


>
> Thanks

>
> _______________________________________________
> Qgis-developer mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer

_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer

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[hidden email]
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