Re: Swiss CORINE: Bessel 1841 Hotine Oblique Mercator Azimuth Natural Origin?

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Re: Swiss CORINE: Bessel 1841 Hotine Oblique Mercator Azimuth Natural Origin?

Markus Neteler
Dear list members,

I was earlier sending this message to the gdal-dev list without
answer. trying here now:

On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Markus Neteler<[hidden email]> wrote:

> hi,
>
> I am trying to reproject the Swiss CORINE data CLC90 [1] into LAEA.
> The .prj file is attached. Unfortunately the transformation fails:
>
> ogr2ogr -t_srs eu_etrs89_laea.prj /tmp/clc90_eu_laea.shp /geodata/clcbn85p.shp
> ERROR 6: Failed to initialize PROJ.4 with `+proj=omerc
> +lat_0=46.95240555555556 +lonc=7.439583333333333 +alpha=90 +k=1
> +x_0=-9419820.590700001 +y_0=200000 +ellps=bessel +units=m +no_defs '.
> lat_0 = 0 or 90 or alpha = 90
> Failed to create coordinate transformation between the
> following coordinate systems.  This may be because they
> are not transformable, or because projection services
> (PROJ.4 DLL/.so) could not be loaded.
> Source:
> PROJCS["Bessel_1841_Hotine_Oblique_Mercator_Azimuth_Natural_Origin",
>    GEOGCS["GCS_Bessel_1841",
>        DATUM["Not_specified_based_on_Bessel_1841_ellipsoid",
>            SPHEROID["Bessel_1841",6377397.155,299.1528128]],
>        PRIMEM["Greenwich",0.0],
>        UNIT["Degree",0.0174532925199433]],
>    PROJECTION["Hotine_Oblique_Mercator"],
>    PARAMETER["False_Easting",-9419820.5907],
>    PARAMETER["False_Northing",200000.0],
>    PARAMETER["Scale_Factor",1.0],
>    PARAMETER["Azimuth",90.0],
>    PARAMETER["Longitude_Of_Center",7.439583333333333],
>    PARAMETER["Latitude_Of_Center",46.95240555555556],
>    UNIT["Meter",1.0]]
> Target:
> PROJCS["ETRS89 / ETRS-LAEA",
>    GEOGCS["ETRS89",
>        DATUM["European_Terrestrial_Reference_System_1989",
>            SPHEROID["GRS 1980",6378137,298.2572221010042,
>                AUTHORITY["EPSG","7019"]],
>            AUTHORITY["EPSG","6258"]],
>        PRIMEM["Greenwich",0],
>        UNIT["degree",0.0174532925199433],
>        AUTHORITY["EPSG","4258"]],
>    UNIT["metre",1,
>        AUTHORITY["EPSG","9001"]],
>    AUTHORITY["EPSG","3035"]]
>
> Suggestions welcome to reproject this data set...
>
> thanks
> Markus
>
> [1] http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/de/index/dienstleistungen/geostat/datenbeschreibung/corine_land_cover.html
>    Data: -> GIS-Daten CORINE Land Cover Schweiz 1990 (ZIP file)
>

Is there a way to enable PROJ4 to support this projection?

thank in advance,
Markus
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Re: Swiss CORINE: Bessel 1841 Hotine Oblique MercatorAzimuth Natural Origin?

Clifford J Mugnier
Re: [Proj] Swiss CORINE: Bessel 1841 Hotine Oblique MercatorAzimuth Natural Origin?
Switzerland dropped the Rosenmund Oblique in favor of the Hotine Oblique RSO?
 
Since when?
 
C. Mugnier
LOUISIANA STATE UNIVERSITY


From: [hidden email] on behalf of Markus Neteler
Sent: Fri 10-Jul-09 07:59
To: PROJ.4 and general Projections Discussions
Subject: Re: [Proj] Swiss CORINE: Bessel 1841 Hotine Oblique MercatorAzimuth Natural Origin?

Dear list members,

I was earlier sending this message to the gdal-dev list without
answer. trying here now:

On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Markus Neteler<[hidden email]> wrote:


> hi,
>
> I am trying to reproject the Swiss CORINE data CLC90 [1] into LAEA.
> The .prj file is attached. Unfortunately the transformation fails:
>
> ogr2ogr -t_srs eu_etrs89_laea.prj /tmp/clc90_eu_laea.shp /geodata/clcbn85p.shp
> ERROR 6: Failed to initialize PROJ.4 with `+proj=omerc
> +lat_0=46.95240555555556 +lonc=7.439583333333333 +alpha=90 +k=1
> +x_0=-9419820.590700001 +y_0=200000 +ellps=bessel +units=m +no_defs '.
> lat_0 = 0 or 90 or alpha = 90
> Failed to create coordinate transformation between the
> following coordinate systems.  This may be because they
> are not transformable, or because projection services
> (PROJ.4 DLL/.so) could not be loaded.
> Source:
> PROJCS["Bessel_1841_Hotine_Oblique_Mercator_Azimuth_Natural_Origin",
>    GEOGCS["GCS_Bessel_1841",
>        DATUM["Not_specified_based_on_Bessel_1841_ellipsoid",
>            SPHEROID["Bessel_1841",6377397.155,299.1528128]],
>        PRIMEM["Greenwich",0.0],
>        UNIT["Degree",0.0174532925199433]],
>    PROJECTION["Hotine_Oblique_Mercator"],
>    PARAMETER["False_Easting",-9419820.5907],
>    PARAMETER["False_Northing",200000.0],
>    PARAMETER["Scale_Factor",1.0],
>    PARAMETER["Azimuth",90.0],
>    PARAMETER["Longitude_Of_Center",7.439583333333333],
>    PARAMETER["Latitude_Of_Center",46.95240555555556],
>    UNIT["Meter",1.0]]
> Target:
> PROJCS["ETRS89 / ETRS-LAEA",
>    GEOGCS["ETRS89",
>        DATUM["European_Terrestrial_Reference_System_1989",
>            SPHEROID["GRS 1980",6378137,298.2572221010042,
>                AUTHORITY["EPSG","7019"]],
>            AUTHORITY["EPSG","6258"]],
>        PRIMEM["Greenwich",0],
>        UNIT["degree",0.0174532925199433],
>        AUTHORITY["EPSG","4258"]],
>    UNIT["metre",1,
>        AUTHORITY["EPSG","9001"]],
>    AUTHORITY["EPSG","3035"]]
>
> Suggestions welcome to reproject this data set...
>
> thanks
> Markus
>
> [1] http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/de/index/dienstleistungen/geostat/datenbeschreibung/corine_land_cover.html
>    Data: -> GIS-Daten CORINE Land Cover Schweiz 1990 (ZIP file)
>

Is there a way to enable PROJ4 to support this projection?

thank in advance,
Markus
_______________________________________________
Proj mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj


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Re: Swiss CORINE: Bessel 1841 Hotine Oblique Mercator Azimuth Natural Origin?

Ziegler Stefan
In reply to this post by Markus Neteler
Scalix message content
Hi Markus

try this:

ogr2ogr shp_dir/ -s_srs epsg:21781 -t_srs epsg:3035 clcbn85p.shp

epsg:21781 is forcing ogr2ogr to use the real swiss prj-definition. Forget the strange definition in the delivered prj-file.

regards
Stefan

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Markus Neteler [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Gesendet am: Freitag, 10. Juli 2009 14:59
> An: PROJ.4 and general Projections Discussions
> Betreff: Re: [Proj] Swiss CORINE: Bessel 1841 Hotine Oblique Mercator
> Azimuth Natural Origin?
>
> Dear list members,
>
> I was earlier sending this message to the gdal-dev list without
> answer. trying here now:
>
> On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Markus
> Neteler<[hidden email]> wrote:
> > hi,
> >
> > I am trying to reproject the Swiss CORINE data CLC90 [1] into LAEA.
> > The .prj file is attached. Unfortunately the transformation fails:
> >
> > ogr2ogr -t_srs eu_etrs89_laea.prj /tmp/clc90_eu_laea.shp
> /geodata/clcbn85p.shp
> > ERROR 6: Failed to initialize PROJ.4 with `+proj=omerc
> > +lat_0=46.95240555555556 +lonc=7.439583333333333 +alpha=90 +k=1
> > +x_0=-9419820.590700001 +y_0=200000 +ellps=bessel +units=m
> +no_defs '.
> > lat_0 = 0 or 90 or alpha = 90
> > Failed to create coordinate transformation between the
> > following coordinate systems.  This may be because they
> > are not transformable, or because projection services
> > (PROJ.4 DLL/.so) could not be loaded.
> > Source:
> > PROJCS["Bessel_1841_Hotine_Oblique_Mercator_Azimuth_Natural_Origin",
> >    GEOGCS["GCS_Bessel_1841",
> >        DATUM["Not_specified_based_on_Bessel_1841_ellipsoid",
> >            SPHEROID["Bessel_1841",6377397.155,299.1528128]],
> >        PRIMEM["Greenwich",0.0],
> >        UNIT["Degree",0.0174532925199433]],
> >    PROJECTION["Hotine_Oblique_Mercator"],
> >    PARAMETER["False_Easting",-9419820.5907],
> >    PARAMETER["False_Northing",200000.0],
> >    PARAMETER["Scale_Factor",1.0],
> >    PARAMETER["Azimuth",90.0],
> >    PARAMETER["Longitude_Of_Center",7.439583333333333],
> >    PARAMETER["Latitude_Of_Center",46.95240555555556],
> >    UNIT["Meter",1.0]]
> > Target:
> > PROJCS["ETRS89 / ETRS-LAEA",
> >    GEOGCS["ETRS89",
> >        DATUM["European_Terrestrial_Reference_System_1989",
> >            SPHEROID["GRS 1980",6378137,298.2572221010042,
> >                AUTHORITY["EPSG","7019"]],
> >            AUTHORITY["EPSG","6258"]],
> >        PRIMEM["Greenwich",0],
> >        UNIT["degree",0.0174532925199433],
> >        AUTHORITY["EPSG","4258"]],
> >    UNIT["metre",1,
> >        AUTHORITY["EPSG","9001"]],
> >    AUTHORITY["EPSG","3035"]]
> >
> > Suggestions welcome to reproject this data set...
> >
> > thanks
> > Markus
> >
> > [1]
> http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/de/index/dienstleistungen/g
eostat/datenbeschreibung/corine_land_cover.html
>    Data: -> GIS-Daten CORINE Land Cover Schweiz 1990 (ZIP file)
>

Is there a way to enable PROJ4 to support this projection?

thank in advance,
Markus
_______________________________________________
Proj mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj

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Re: Swiss CORINE: Bessel 1841 Hotine Oblique Mercator Azimuth Natural Origin?

Markus Neteler
Hi Stefan,

I should have asked earlier here :) Thanks a lot.
However, the map seems to be shifted for 200-300 meters.
If there any datum which I should specify? This reminds me
of
http://trac.osgeo.org/grass/ticket/35

Best regards
Markus Neteler

On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 4:07 PM, Ziegler Stefan<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Markus
> try this:
> ogr2ogr shp_dir/ -s_srs epsg:21781 -t_srs epsg:3035 clcbn85p.shp
> epsg:21781 is forcing ogr2ogr to use the real swiss prj-definition. Forget
> the strange definition in the delivered prj-file.
> regards
> Stefan
>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: Markus Neteler [mailto:[hidden email]]
>> Gesendet am: Freitag, 10. Juli 2009 14:59
>> An: PROJ.4 and general Projections Discussions
>> Betreff: Re: [Proj] Swiss CORINE: Bessel 1841 Hotine Oblique Mercator
>> Azimuth Natural Origin?
>>
>> Dear list members,
>>
>> I was earlier sending this message to the gdal-dev list without
>> answer. trying here now:
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Markus
>> Neteler<[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > hi,
>> >
>> > I am trying to reproject the Swiss CORINE data CLC90 [1] into LAEA.
>> > The .prj file is attached. Unfortunately the transformation fails:
>> >
>> > ogr2ogr -t_srs eu_etrs89_laea.prj /tmp/clc90_eu_laea.shp
>> /geodata/clcbn85p.shp
>> > ERROR 6: Failed to initialize PROJ.4 with `+proj=omerc
>> > +lat_0=46.95240555555556 +lonc=7.439583333333333 +alpha=90 +k=1
>> > +x_0=-9419820.590700001 +y_0=200000 +ellps=bessel +units=m
>> +no_defs '.
>> > lat_0 = 0 or 90 or alpha = 90
>> > Failed to create coordinate transformation between the
>> > following coordinate systems.  This may be because they
>> > are not transformable, or because projection services
>> > (PROJ.4 DLL/.so) could not be loaded.
>> > Source:
>> > PROJCS["Bessel_1841_Hotine_Oblique_Mercator_Azimuth_Natural_Origin",
>> >    GEOGCS["GCS_Bessel_1841",
>> >        DATUM["Not_specified_based_on_Bessel_1841_ellipsoid",
>> >            SPHEROID["Bessel_1841",6377397.155,299.1528128]],
>> >        PRIMEM["Greenwich",0.0],
>> >        UNIT["Degree",0.0174532925199433]],
>> >    PROJECTION["Hotine_Oblique_Mercator"],
>> >    PARAMETER["False_Easting",-9419820.5907],
>> >    PARAMETER["False_Northing",200000.0],
>> >    PARAMETER["Scale_Factor",1.0],
>> >    PARAMETER["Azimuth",90.0],
>> >    PARAMETER["Longitude_Of_Center",7.439583333333333],
>> >    PARAMETER["Latitude_Of_Center",46.95240555555556],
>> >    UNIT["Meter",1.0]]
>> > Target:
>> > PROJCS["ETRS89 / ETRS-LAEA",
>> >    GEOGCS["ETRS89",
>> >        DATUM["European_Terrestrial_Reference_System_1989",
>> >            SPHEROID["GRS 1980",6378137,298.2572221010042,
>> >                AUTHORITY["EPSG","7019"]],
>> >            AUTHORITY["EPSG","6258"]],
>> >        PRIMEM["Greenwich",0],
>> >        UNIT["degree",0.0174532925199433],
>> >        AUTHORITY["EPSG","4258"]],
>> >    UNIT["metre",1,
>> >        AUTHORITY["EPSG","9001"]],
>> >    AUTHORITY["EPSG","3035"]]
>> >
>> > Suggestions welcome to reproject this data set...
>> >
>> > thanks
>> > Markus
>> >
>> > [1]
>> http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/de/index/dienstleistungen/g
> eostat/datenbeschreibung/corine_land_cover.html
>>    Data: -> GIS-Daten CORINE Land Cover Schweiz 1990 (ZIP file)
>>
> Is there a way to enable PROJ4 to support this projection?
> thank in advance,
> Markus
> _______________________________________________
> Proj mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj
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Re: Swiss CORINE: Bessel 1841 Hotine Oblique MercatorAzimuth Natural Origin?

Gerald I. Evenden
In reply to this post by Clifford J Mugnier
On Friday 10 July 2009 9:35:59 am Clifford J Mugnier wrote:
> Switzerland dropped the Rosenmund Oblique in favor of the Hotine Oblique
> RSO?
>
> Since when?
>
> C. Mugnier
> LOUISIANA STATE UNIVERSITY

Except for the false easting and northing, the other factors look similar to
proj's proj=somerc projection parameters which brings up a point: I never saw
a name declared anywhere for this projection which is basically a Gauss
transformation to the sphere followed by coordinate shift on the shere.  In
the case of the Swiss usage the polar axis is shifted in the plane of the
central meridian until the equator is at the central point:

lon_0=7d26'22.50"
lat_0=46d57'08.66"

Hotine usage for Swiss projections keep comming up but I question that the
Swiss ever used Hotine for anything domestic.

>
> ________________________________
>
> From: [hidden email] on behalf of Markus Neteler
> Sent: Fri 10-Jul-09 07:59
> To: PROJ.4 and general Projections Discussions
> Subject: Re: [Proj] Swiss CORINE: Bessel 1841 Hotine Oblique
> MercatorAzimuth Natural Origin?
>
>
>
> Dear list members,
>
> I was earlier sending this message to the gdal-dev list without
> answer. trying here now:
>
> On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Markus Neteler<[hidden email]> wrote:
> > hi,
> >
> > I am trying to reproject the Swiss CORINE data CLC90 [1] into LAEA.
> > The .prj file is attached. Unfortunately the transformation fails:
> >
> > ogr2ogr -t_srs eu_etrs89_laea.prj /tmp/clc90_eu_laea.shp
> > /geodata/clcbn85p.shp ERROR 6: Failed to initialize PROJ.4 with
> > `+proj=omerc
> > +lat_0=46.95240555555556 +lonc=7.439583333333333 +alpha=90 +k=1
> > +x_0=-9419820.590700001 +y_0=200000 +ellps=bessel +units=m +no_defs '.
> > lat_0 = 0 or 90 or alpha = 90
> > Failed to create coordinate transformation between the
> > following coordinate systems.  This may be because they
> > are not transformable, or because projection services
> > (PROJ.4 DLL/.so) could not be loaded.
> > Source:
> > PROJCS["Bessel_1841_Hotine_Oblique_Mercator_Azimuth_Natural_Origin",
> >    GEOGCS["GCS_Bessel_1841",
> >        DATUM["Not_specified_based_on_Bessel_1841_ellipsoid",
> >            SPHEROID["Bessel_1841",6377397.155,299.1528128]],
> >        PRIMEM["Greenwich",0.0],
> >        UNIT["Degree",0.0174532925199433]],
> >    PROJECTION["Hotine_Oblique_Mercator"],
> >    PARAMETER["False_Easting",-9419820.5907],
> >    PARAMETER["False_Northing",200000.0],
> >    PARAMETER["Scale_Factor",1.0],
> >    PARAMETER["Azimuth",90.0],
> >    PARAMETER["Longitude_Of_Center",7.439583333333333],
> >    PARAMETER["Latitude_Of_Center",46.95240555555556],
> >    UNIT["Meter",1.0]]
> > Target:
> > PROJCS["ETRS89 / ETRS-LAEA",
> >    GEOGCS["ETRS89",
> >        DATUM["European_Terrestrial_Reference_System_1989",
> >            SPHEROID["GRS 1980",6378137,298.2572221010042,
> >                AUTHORITY["EPSG","7019"]],
> >            AUTHORITY["EPSG","6258"]],
> >        PRIMEM["Greenwich",0],
> >        UNIT["degree",0.0174532925199433],
> >        AUTHORITY["EPSG","4258"]],
> >    UNIT["metre",1,
> >        AUTHORITY["EPSG","9001"]],
> >    AUTHORITY["EPSG","3035"]]
> >
> > Suggestions welcome to reproject this data set...
> >
> > thanks
> > Markus
> >
> > [1]
> > http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/de/index/dienstleistungen/geostat/date
> >nbeschreibung/corine_land_cover.html Data: -> GIS-Daten CORINE Land Cover
> > Schweiz 1990 (ZIP file)
>
> Is there a way to enable PROJ4 to support this projection?
>
> thank in advance,
> Markus

--
The whole religious complexion of the modern world is due
to the absence from Jerusalem of a lunatic asylum.
-- Havelock Ellis (1859-1939) British psychologist
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Re: Swiss CORINE: Bessel 1841 Hotine Oblique MercatorAzimuthNatural Origin?

Clifford J Mugnier
Re: [Proj] Swiss CORINE: Bessel 1841 Hotine Oblique MercatorAzimuthNatural Origin?
Prof. Rosenmund cooked up his projection in 1910 for the national projection of Switzerland.  Brigadier Martin Hotine cooked up his in 1948 for Malaya and Borneo.
 
C. Mugnier


From: [hidden email] on behalf of Gerald I. Evenden
Sent: Fri 10-Jul-09 09:53
To: PROJ.4 and general Projections Discussions
Subject: Re: [Proj] Swiss CORINE: Bessel 1841 Hotine Oblique MercatorAzimuthNatural Origin?

On Friday 10 July 2009 9:35:59 am Clifford J Mugnier wrote:
> Switzerland dropped the Rosenmund Oblique in favor of the Hotine Oblique
> RSO?
>
> Since when?
>
> C. Mugnier
> LOUISIANA STATE UNIVERSITY

Except for the false easting and northing, the other factors look similar to
proj's proj=somerc projection parameters which brings up a point: I never saw
a name declared anywhere for this projection which is basically a Gauss
transformation to the sphere followed by coordinate shift on the shere.  In
the case of the Swiss usage the polar axis is shifted in the plane of the
central meridian until the equator is at the central point:

lon_0=7d26'22.50"
lat_0=46d57'08.66"

Hotine usage for Swiss projections keep comming up but I question that the
Swiss ever used Hotine for anything domestic.


>
> ________________________________
>
> From: [hidden email] on behalf of Markus Neteler
> Sent: Fri 10-Jul-09 07:59
> To: PROJ.4 and general Projections Discussions
> Subject: Re: [Proj] Swiss CORINE: Bessel 1841 Hotine Oblique
> MercatorAzimuth Natural Origin?
>
>
>
> Dear list members,
>
> I was earlier sending this message to the gdal-dev list without
> answer. trying here now:
>
> On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Markus Neteler<[hidden email]> wrote:
> > hi,
> >
> > I am trying to reproject the Swiss CORINE data CLC90 [1] into LAEA.
> > The .prj file is attached. Unfortunately the transformation fails:
> >
> > ogr2ogr -t_srs eu_etrs89_laea.prj /tmp/clc90_eu_laea.shp
> > /geodata/clcbn85p.shp ERROR 6: Failed to initialize PROJ.4 with
> > `+proj=omerc
> > +lat_0=46.95240555555556 +lonc=7.439583333333333 +alpha=90 +k=1
> > +x_0=-9419820.590700001 +y_0=200000 +ellps=bessel +units=m +no_defs '.
> > lat_0 = 0 or 90 or alpha = 90
> > Failed to create coordinate transformation between the
> > following coordinate systems.  This may be because they
> > are not transformable, or because projection services
> > (PROJ.4 DLL/.so) could not be loaded.
> > Source:
> > PROJCS["Bessel_1841_Hotine_Oblique_Mercator_Azimuth_Natural_Origin",
> >    GEOGCS["GCS_Bessel_1841",
> >        DATUM["Not_specified_based_on_Bessel_1841_ellipsoid",
> >            SPHEROID["Bessel_1841",6377397.155,299.1528128]],
> >        PRIMEM["Greenwich",0.0],
> >        UNIT["Degree",0.0174532925199433]],
> >    PROJECTION["Hotine_Oblique_Mercator"],
> >    PARAMETER["False_Easting",-9419820.5907],
> >    PARAMETER["False_Northing",200000.0],
> >    PARAMETER["Scale_Factor",1.0],
> >    PARAMETER["Azimuth",90.0],
> >    PARAMETER["Longitude_Of_Center",7.439583333333333],
> >    PARAMETER["Latitude_Of_Center",46.95240555555556],
> >    UNIT["Meter",1.0]]
> > Target:
> > PROJCS["ETRS89 / ETRS-LAEA",
> >    GEOGCS["ETRS89",
> >        DATUM["European_Terrestrial_Reference_System_1989",
> >            SPHEROID["GRS 1980",6378137,298.2572221010042,
> >                AUTHORITY["EPSG","7019"]],
> >            AUTHORITY["EPSG","6258"]],
> >        PRIMEM["Greenwich",0],
> >        UNIT["degree",0.0174532925199433],
> >        AUTHORITY["EPSG","4258"]],
> >    UNIT["metre",1,
> >        AUTHORITY["EPSG","9001"]],
> >    AUTHORITY["EPSG","3035"]]
> >
> > Suggestions welcome to reproject this data set...
> >
> > thanks
> > Markus
> >
> > [1]
> > http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/de/index/dienstleistungen/geostat/date
> >nbeschreibung/corine_land_cover.html Data: -> GIS-Daten CORINE Land Cover
> > Schweiz 1990 (ZIP file)
>
> Is there a way to enable PROJ4 to support this projection?
>
> thank in advance,
> Markus

--
The whole religious complexion of the modern world is due
to the absence from Jerusalem of a lunatic asylum.
-- Havelock Ellis (1859-1939) British psychologist
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Re: Swiss CORINE: Bessel 1841 Hotine Oblique MercatorAzimuth Natural Origin?

Clifford J Mugnier
In reply to this post by Markus Neteler
Re: [Proj] Swiss CORINE: Bessel 1841 Hotine Oblique MercatorAzimuth Natural Origin?
I believe the current datums are: "CH1903+" and "CHTRS95."
 
See my August 2001 column on Switzerland at: www.ASPRS.org/resources/grids .
 
C. Mugnier


From: [hidden email] on behalf of Markus Neteler
Sent: Fri 10-Jul-09 09:18
To: Ziegler Stefan
Cc: proj
Subject: Re: [Proj] Swiss CORINE: Bessel 1841 Hotine Oblique MercatorAzimuth Natural Origin?

Hi Stefan,

I should have asked earlier here :) Thanks a lot.
However, the map seems to be shifted for 200-300 meters.
If there any datum which I should specify? This reminds me
of
http://trac.osgeo.org/grass/ticket/35

Best regards
Markus Neteler

On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 4:07 PM, Ziegler Stefan<[hidden email]> wrote:


> Hi Markus
> try this:
> ogr2ogr shp_dir/ -s_srs epsg:21781 -t_srs epsg:3035 clcbn85p.shp
> epsg:21781 is forcing ogr2ogr to use the real swiss prj-definition. Forget
> the strange definition in the delivered prj-file.
> regards
> Stefan
>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: Markus Neteler [[hidden email]]
>> Gesendet am: Freitag, 10. Juli 2009 14:59
>> An: PROJ.4 and general Projections Discussions
>> Betreff: Re: [Proj] Swiss CORINE: Bessel 1841 Hotine Oblique Mercator
>> Azimuth Natural Origin?
>>
>> Dear list members,
>>
>> I was earlier sending this message to the gdal-dev list without
>> answer. trying here now:
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Markus
>> Neteler<[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > hi,
>> >
>> > I am trying to reproject the Swiss CORINE data CLC90 [1] into LAEA.
>> > The .prj file is attached. Unfortunately the transformation fails:
>> >
>> > ogr2ogr -t_srs eu_etrs89_laea.prj /tmp/clc90_eu_laea.shp
>> /geodata/clcbn85p.shp
>> > ERROR 6: Failed to initialize PROJ.4 with `+proj=omerc
>> > +lat_0=46.95240555555556 +lonc=7.439583333333333 +alpha=90 +k=1
>> > +x_0=-9419820.590700001 +y_0=200000 +ellps=bessel +units=m
>> +no_defs '.
>> > lat_0 = 0 or 90 or alpha = 90
>> > Failed to create coordinate transformation between the
>> > following coordinate systems.  This may be because they
>> > are not transformable, or because projection services
>> > (PROJ.4 DLL/.so) could not be loaded.
>> > Source:
>> > PROJCS["Bessel_1841_Hotine_Oblique_Mercator_Azimuth_Natural_Origin",
>> >    GEOGCS["GCS_Bessel_1841",
>> >        DATUM["Not_specified_based_on_Bessel_1841_ellipsoid",
>> >            SPHEROID["Bessel_1841",6377397.155,299.1528128]],
>> >        PRIMEM["Greenwich",0.0],
>> >        UNIT["Degree",0.0174532925199433]],
>> >    PROJECTION["Hotine_Oblique_Mercator"],
>> >    PARAMETER["False_Easting",-9419820.5907],
>> >    PARAMETER["False_Northing",200000.0],
>> >    PARAMETER["Scale_Factor",1.0],
>> >    PARAMETER["Azimuth",90.0],
>> >    PARAMETER["Longitude_Of_Center",7.439583333333333],
>> >    PARAMETER["Latitude_Of_Center",46.95240555555556],
>> >    UNIT["Meter",1.0]]
>> > Target:
>> > PROJCS["ETRS89 / ETRS-LAEA",
>> >    GEOGCS["ETRS89",
>> >        DATUM["European_Terrestrial_Reference_System_1989",
>> >            SPHEROID["GRS 1980",6378137,298.2572221010042,
>> >                AUTHORITY["EPSG","7019"]],
>> >            AUTHORITY["EPSG","6258"]],
>> >        PRIMEM["Greenwich",0],
>> >        UNIT["degree",0.0174532925199433],
>> >        AUTHORITY["EPSG","4258"]],
>> >    UNIT["metre",1,
>> >        AUTHORITY["EPSG","9001"]],
>> >    AUTHORITY["EPSG","3035"]]
>> >
>> > Suggestions welcome to reproject this data set...
>> >
>> > thanks
>> > Markus
>> >
>> > [1]
>> http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/de/index/dienstleistungen/g
> eostat/datenbeschreibung/corine_land_cover.html
>>    Data: -> GIS-Daten CORINE Land Cover Schweiz 1990 (ZIP file)
>>
> Is there a way to enable PROJ4 to support this projection?
> thank in advance,
> Markus
> _______________________________________________
> Proj mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj
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Re: Swiss CORINE: Bessel 1841 Hotine Oblique Mercator Azimuth Natural Origin?

Ziegler Stefan
In reply to this post by Markus Neteler
Scalix message content
Hi Markus

please check in the proj4 epsg-file the definition of 21781. It needs the +towgs84 parameter:

+proj=somerc +lat_0=46.95240555555556 +lon_0=7.439583333333333 +x_0=600000 +y_0=200000 +ellps=bessel +towgs84=674.374,15.056,405.346,0,0,0,0 +units=m +no_defs

The 200 meters shift sounds a bit like a forgotten towgs84 parameter but that's just a guess.
Does the Grass ticket still needs some clarification?

regards
Stefan

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Markus Neteler [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Gesendet am: Freitag, 10. Juli 2009 16:18
> An: Ziegler Stefan
> Cc: proj
> Betreff: Re: Re: [Proj] Swiss CORINE: Bessel 1841 Hotine Oblique
> Mercator Azimuth Natural Origin?
>
> Hi Stefan,
>
> I should have asked earlier here :) Thanks a lot.
> However, the map seems to be shifted for 200-300 meters.
> If there any datum which I should specify? This reminds me
> of
> http://trac.osgeo.org/grass/ticket/35
>
> Best regards
> Markus Neteler
>
> On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 4:07 PM, Ziegler
> Stefan<[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi Markus
> > try this:
> > ogr2ogr shp_dir/ -s_srs epsg:21781 -t_srs epsg:3035 clcbn85p.shp
> > epsg:21781 is forcing ogr2ogr to use the real swiss
> prj-definition. Forget
> > the strange definition in the delivered prj-file.
> > regards
> > Stefan
> >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> >> Von: Markus Neteler [mailto:[hidden email]]
> >> Gesendet am: Freitag, 10. Juli 2009 14:59
> >> An: PROJ.4 and general Projections Discussions
> >> Betreff: Re: [Proj] Swiss CORINE: Bessel 1841 Hotine
> Oblique Mercator
> >> Azimuth Natural Origin?
> >>
> >> Dear list members,
> >>
> >> I was earlier sending this message to the gdal-dev list without
> >> answer. trying here now:
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Markus
> >> Neteler<[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> > hi,
> >> >
> >> > I am trying to reproject the Swiss CORINE data CLC90 [1]
> into LAEA.
> >> > The .prj file is attached. Unfortunately the
> transformation fails:
> >> >
> >> > ogr2ogr -t_srs eu_etrs89_laea.prj /tmp/clc90_eu_laea.shp
> >> /geodata/clcbn85p.shp
> >> > ERROR 6: Failed to initialize PROJ.4 with `+proj=omerc
> >> > +lat_0=46.95240555555556 +lonc=7.439583333333333 +alpha=90 +k=1
> >> > +x_0=-9419820.590700001 +y_0=200000 +ellps=bessel +units=m
> >> +no_defs '.
> >> > lat_0 = 0 or 90 or alpha = 90
> >> > Failed to create coordinate transformation between the
> >> > following coordinate systems.  This may be because they
> >> > are not transformable, or because projection services
> >> > (PROJ.4 DLL/.so) could not be loaded.
> >> > Source:
> >> >
> PROJCS["Bessel_1841_Hotine_Oblique_Mercator_Azimuth_Natural_Origin",
> >> >    GEOGCS["GCS_Bessel_1841",
> >> >        DATUM["Not_specified_based_on_Bessel_1841_ellipsoid",
> >> >            SPHEROID["Bessel_1841",6377397.155,299.1528128]],
> >> >        PRIMEM["Greenwich",0.0],
> >> >        UNIT["Degree",0.0174532925199433]],
> >> >    PROJECTION["Hotine_Oblique_Mercator"],
> >> >    PARAMETER["False_Easting",-9419820.5907],
> >> >    PARAMETER["False_Northing",200000.0],
> >> >    PARAMETER["Scale_Factor",1.0],
> >> >    PARAMETER["Azimuth",90.0],
> >> >    PARAMETER["Longitude_Of_Center",7.439583333333333],
> >> >    PARAMETER["Latitude_Of_Center",46.95240555555556],
> >> >    UNIT["Meter",1.0]]
> >> > Target:
> >> > PROJCS["ETRS89 / ETRS-LAEA",
> >> >    GEOGCS["ETRS89",
> >> >        DATUM["European_Terrestrial_Reference_System_1989",
> >> >            SPHEROID["GRS 1980",6378137,298.2572221010042,
> >> >                AUTHORITY["EPSG","7019"]],
> >> >            AUTHORITY["EPSG","6258"]],
> >> >        PRIMEM["Greenwich",0],
> >> >        UNIT["degree",0.0174532925199433],
> >> >        AUTHORITY["EPSG","4258"]],
> >> >    UNIT["metre",1,
> >> >        AUTHORITY["EPSG","9001"]],
> >> >    AUTHORITY["EPSG","3035"]]
> >> >
> >> > Suggestions welcome to reproject this data set...
> >> >
> >> > thanks
> >> > Markus
> >> >
> >> > [1]
> >> http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/de/index/dienstleistungen/g
> > eostat/datenbeschreibung/corine_land_cover.html
> >>    Data: -> GIS-Daten CORINE Land Cover Schweiz 1990 (ZIP file)
> >>
> > Is there a way to enable PROJ4 to support this projection?
> > thank in advance,
> > Markus
> > _______________________________________________
> > Proj mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.maptools.org/mailman/listinfo/proj
>

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Re: Swiss CORINE: Bessel 1841 Hotine Oblique Mercator Azimuth Natural Origin?

Paul Kelly
On Sat, 11 Jul 2009, Ziegler Stefan wrote:

> Hi Markus
>
> please check in the proj4 epsg-file the definition of 21781. It needs
> the +towgs84 parameter:
>
> +proj=somerc +lat_0=46.95240555555556 +lon_0=7.439583333333333
> +x_0=600000 +y_0=200000 +ellps=bessel
> +towgs84=674.374,15.056,405.346,0,0,0,0 +units=m +no_defs
>
> The 200 meters shift sounds a bit like a forgotten towgs84 parameter but
> that's just a guess. Does the Grass ticket still needs some
> clarification?

What would be really interesting to understand would be the origins of the
parameters given in the August 2001 PE & RS Grids & Datums Column on
Switzerland (<http://www.asprs.org/resources/grids/08-2001-swiss.pdf>) as
they are what the parameters in GRASS were originally based on. The
article states:

"Transforming the CH1903+ Datum the to CHTRS95 Datum (WGS84 ellipsoid)
then is accomplished by dX = +674.253m, dY = +015.053m, dZ = +405.324m,
according to the Swiss Federal Office of Topography."

This is what GRASS has been using up to now. So why the subtle difference
in the parameters from the set previously given?

In addition the article goes on to state:

"According to the Swiss Federal Office of Topography, the seven-parameter
Datum shift from CH1903+ to WGS84 is: dX = +660.077m +/- 4.055m, dY =
+013.551m +/- 4.816m, dZ = +369.344m +/- 3.914m, alpha = 2.484 cc +/-
0.417cc, beta = 1.783 cc +/- 0.455cc, gamma = 2.939 cc +/- 0.411cc, and M
= 1.000000566 +/- 0.000000052."

What do these parameters relate to? I'm very confused.

The other point worth mentioning is that we won't be able to use the NTv2
grid file in GRASS since (as previously discussed on this list) it
transforms from CH1903 to CH1903+, rather than to WGS84 (or a closely
"WGS84-compatible" datum) as most gridshift files do.

Best regards

Paul
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