Re: PSC Vote: Github or Gitea (OSGeo Git) or stay on SVN

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Re: PSC Vote: Github or Gitea (OSGeo Git) or stay on SVN

Regina Obe
Because there is no point of moving to github unless we move the whole thing that means trac too.
The main benefit of moving to GitHub would be lower maintenance which means getting rid of trac and any need for any other git mirror.

To Paul's point I'm more concerned about getting out of github than getting into it.
Though would be interesting to know how much effort they put into the migration of all their tickets to github.

Maintaining an OSGeo git and trac does take some maintenance.
 Is it worth keeping or not is the question in my mind absence of any emotional argument.

I would say probably still, but strk you are the one doing most of the work keeping things running so I don't know.




-----Original Message-----
From: postgis-devel [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Sandro Santilli
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2017 5:13 PM
To: PostGIS Development Discussion <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [postgis-devel] PSC Vote: Github or Gitea (OSGeo Git) or stay on SVN

On Tue, Aug 08, 2017 at 04:56:47PM -0400, Regina Obe wrote:

> That said my vote is for:
>
> Gitea (OSGeo Git) / OSGeo Trac / mirror GitHub - ditch SVN

This motion is a bit confusing, but assuming it is about moving the code repository from OSGeo/SVN to OSGeo/GIT my vote is a +1

> It also means tickets don't need moving (though having the seamless
> patch view would be gone and I'd have to settle for a link to a git pull).
> Until we get tracgit working.

I don't understand this statement: "patch view would be gone".
If we keep using trac for tickets why would you loose "patch view" ?

--strk;
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Re: PSC Vote: Github or Gitea (OSGeo Git) or stay on SVN

Paul Ramsey
Getting issues out of github is pretty straightforward, particularly compared to trac, 




P.

On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 2:34 PM, Regina Obe <[hidden email]> wrote:
Because there is no point of moving to github unless we move the whole thing that means trac too.
The main benefit of moving to GitHub would be lower maintenance which means getting rid of trac and any need for any other git mirror.

To Paul's point I'm more concerned about getting out of github than getting into it.
Though would be interesting to know how much effort they put into the migration of all their tickets to github.

Maintaining an OSGeo git and trac does take some maintenance.
 Is it worth keeping or not is the question in my mind absence of any emotional argument.

I would say probably still, but strk you are the one doing most of the work keeping things running so I don't know.




-----Original Message-----
From: postgis-devel [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Sandro Santilli
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2017 5:13 PM
To: PostGIS Development Discussion <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [postgis-devel] PSC Vote: Github or Gitea (OSGeo Git) or stay on SVN

On Tue, Aug 08, 2017 at 04:56:47PM -0400, Regina Obe wrote:

> That said my vote is for:
>
> Gitea (OSGeo Git) / OSGeo Trac / mirror GitHub - ditch SVN

This motion is a bit confusing, but assuming it is about moving the code repository from OSGeo/SVN to OSGeo/GIT my vote is a +1

> It also means tickets don't need moving (though having the seamless
> patch view would be gone and I'd have to settle for a link to a git pull).
> Until we get tracgit working.

I don't understand this statement: "patch view would be gone".
If we keep using trac for tickets why would you loose "patch view" ?

--strk;
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Re: PSC Vote: Github or Gitea (OSGeo Git) or stay on SVN

Sandro Santilli-4
In reply to this post by Regina Obe
On Tue, Aug 08, 2017 at 05:34:28PM -0400, Regina Obe wrote:

> Maintaining an OSGeo git and trac does take some maintenance.
>  Is it worth keeping or not is the question in my mind absence of any emotional argument.

OSGeo Gogs service currently has 103 users, 13 organizations and 90 repositories.
Most recent repository has been the one holding FOSS4G Europe presentations.

GEOS official repository is up there.

PostGIS being or not on it doesn't change its worth keeping.

Trac has ~20 instances

--strk;

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Re: PSC Vote: Github or Gitea (OSGeo Git) or stay on SVN

Sandro Santilli-4
In reply to this post by Paul Ramsey
On Tue, Aug 08, 2017 at 06:22:35PM -0400, Regina Obe wrote:
> But OSGEo trac is on postgresql now :)
> I'm sure if I am given a postgresql backup I can figure out how to get data out of it much easier than using a github api :)

An XSLT recipe ? :P

I'm speaking as the one who made `Trac -> Gogs` tool based on PostgreSQL queries.
See example results: https://git.osgeo.org/gogs/strk/geos-migration-test/issues
Code: http://strk.kbt.io/projects/go/trac2gogs/

--strk;

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Re: PSC Vote: Github or Gitea (OSGeo Git) or stay on SVN

Regina Obe
Nice.  

1) So gogs with the pull and the lazy editing feature (I can edit via the web interface which I have done) has everything github has and appeases my emotional side too
2) appeases my need to be able to know I can access via SQLif I really really wanted to which I got from this:
https://git.osgeo.org/gogs/postgis/postgis/pulls/9#issuecomment-3040

 :)

3) I'm okay with trac eventually moving to gogs.  It would be sweet if we change the r... to the actual git hash.  That seems like a simple r.. map to git hash UPDATE  statement if we have a table that maps svn revision numbers to git which I assume we might be able to generate via the mirror.

That's a minor thing for me though.

Thanks,
Regina




-----Original Message-----
From: postgis-devel [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Sandro Santilli
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2017 6:34 PM
To: PostGIS Development Discussion <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [postgis-devel] PSC Vote: Github or Gitea (OSGeo Git) or stay on SVN

On Tue, Aug 08, 2017 at 06:22:35PM -0400, Regina Obe wrote:
> But OSGEo trac is on postgresql now :) I'm sure if I am given a
> postgresql backup I can figure out how to get data out of it much
> easier than using a github api :)

An XSLT recipe ? :P

I'm speaking as the one who made `Trac -> Gogs` tool based on PostgreSQL queries.
See example results: https://git.osgeo.org/gogs/strk/geos-migration-test/issues
Code: http://strk.kbt.io/projects/go/trac2gogs/

--strk;

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Re: PSC Vote: Github or Gitea (OSGeo Git) or stay on SVN

Paul Ramsey
The point isn't features, it's developer density. I don't see any great advantage to gogs if we still have PRs and work managing the github mirror. Might as well continue on w/ trac/svn, since gogs shares the main drawback; forcing folks to get new accounts / logins before they can start engaging.

I'm sure gogs is technically wunderbar, but it's not where the persons are.

P.

On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 4:38 PM, Regina Obe <[hidden email]> wrote:
Nice.

1) So gogs with the pull and the lazy editing feature (I can edit via the web interface which I have done) has everything github has and appeases my emotional side too
2) appeases my need to be able to know I can access via SQLif I really really wanted to which I got from this:
https://git.osgeo.org/gogs/postgis/postgis/pulls/9#issuecomment-3040

 :)

3) I'm okay with trac eventually moving to gogs.  It would be sweet if we change the r... to the actual git hash.  That seems like a simple r.. map to git hash UPDATE  statement if we have a table that maps svn revision numbers to git which I assume we might be able to generate via the mirror.

That's a minor thing for me though.

Thanks,
Regina




-----Original Message-----
From: postgis-devel [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Sandro Santilli
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2017 6:34 PM
To: PostGIS Development Discussion <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [postgis-devel] PSC Vote: Github or Gitea (OSGeo Git) or stay on SVN

On Tue, Aug 08, 2017 at 06:22:35PM -0400, Regina Obe wrote:
> But OSGEo trac is on postgresql now :) I'm sure if I am given a
> postgresql backup I can figure out how to get data out of it much
> easier than using a github api :)

An XSLT recipe ? :P

I'm speaking as the one who made `Trac -> Gogs` tool based on PostgreSQL queries.
See example results: https://git.osgeo.org/gogs/strk/geos-migration-test/issues
Code: http://strk.kbt.io/projects/go/trac2gogs/

--strk;

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Re: PSC Vote: Github or Gitea (OSGeo Git) or stay on SVN

Vicky Vergara-2
Hi all
My 2 cents ...
In pgRouitng developing takes places outside the main Github repository. (except for GSoC development)
I like the idea to have the git on the osgeo git. and the mirror on github.
Making the main developing to take place on the osgeo git, and having the community make small commits like typos, small one liner bugs fixes (something little).
Moving from svn to git is the most important.  Most developers prefer git work flow more.

Vicky




On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 9:19 PM, Paragon Corporation <[hidden email]> wrote:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Paul Ramsey <[hidden email]>
Date: Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 8:47 PM
Subject: Re: [postgis-devel] PSC Vote: Github or Gitea (OSGeo Git) or stay on SVN
To: PostGIS Development Discussion <[hidden email]>


On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 5:38 PM, Regina Obe <[hidden email]> wrote:

I think you are overrating the discomfort of having to handle pull requests from github (as a mirror vs. being our official) if everything isn't there and forgetting that you are forcing people who don't have github accounts to create one.

 

There are 3 kinds of contributors I think are important

 

1)      End users reporting bugs – many of these don't have github accounts so forcing them to create an osgeo instead of github sounds better. You can argue creating a github account is easier these days.

Yes, I can.
 

2)      Developers who are on github – we take pull requests from them whether I do it from github/gogs/svn doesn't matter to me.  The conversation if changes need to be made is better on github or gogs.

This is almost all of them.

3)      Developers/users who don't have a github account or don't like committing to github for political reasons.  We lose all these people if they are forced to create a github accounts before they can exchange with us.


Who? Even this guy <https://github.com/strk> has a github account and it's active.



P.



 

So I'm still +1 for GIT OSGeo and okay with tickets moving from trac to gogs.

 

From: postgis-devel [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Paul Ramsey
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2017 7:46 PM


To: PostGIS Development Discussion <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [postgis-devel] PSC Vote: Github or Gitea (OSGeo Git) or stay on SVN

 

The point isn't features, it's developer density. I don't see any great advantage to gogs if we still have PRs and work managing the github mirror. Might as well continue on w/ trac/svn, since gogs shares the main drawback; forcing folks to get new accounts / logins before they can start engaging.

 

I'm sure gogs is technically wunderbar, but it's not where the persons are.


P.

 

On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 4:38 PM, Regina Obe <[hidden email]> wrote:

Nice.

1) So gogs with the pull and the lazy editing feature (I can edit via the web interface which I have done) has everything github has and appeases my emotional side too
2) appeases my need to be able to know I can access via SQLif I really really wanted to which I got from this:
https://git.osgeo.org/gogs/postgis/postgis/pulls/9#issuecomment-3040

 :)

3) I'm okay with trac eventually moving to gogs.  It would be sweet if we change the r... to the actual git hash.  That seems like a simple r.. map to git hash UPDATE  statement if we have a table that maps svn revision numbers to git which I assume we might be able to generate via the mirror.

That's a minor thing for me though.

Thanks,
Regina




-----Original Message-----
From: postgis-devel [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Sandro Santilli
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2017 6:34 PM
To: PostGIS Development Discussion <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [postgis-devel] PSC Vote: Github or Gitea (OSGeo Git) or stay on SVN

On Tue, Aug 08, 2017 at 06:22:35PM -0400, Regina Obe wrote:
> But OSGEo trac is on postgresql now :) I'm sure if I am given a
> postgresql backup I can figure out how to get data out of it much
> easier than using a github api :)

An XSLT recipe ? :P

I'm speaking as the one who made `Trac -> Gogs` tool based on PostgreSQL queries.
See example results: https://git.osgeo.org/gogs/strk/geos-migration-test/issues
Code: http://strk.kbt.io/projects/go/trac2gogs/

--strk;

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Re: PSC Vote: Github or Gitea (OSGeo Git) or stay on SVN

Mateusz Loskot
In reply to this post by Regina Obe
On 9 August 2017 at 15:09, Regina Obe <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>> On 8 August 2017 at 23:07, Paul Ramsey <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> The practical aspects of "going where the people are" leads me to
>>>  advocate for going all over to github. Code, tickets, etc.
>
>> I second Paul's vote,
>
> Paul has not voted.  He has advocated.  Advocation is NOT a vote.
> It's a way of saying I'm encouraging other people to move in the direction I feel is right. :)
>
> He has to say +1, -1, 0 for it to be considered a vote.

Then, I s/vote/voice/ :-)

> Mat,
>
> If you had a choice between doing noting (e.g. keep svn, trac)
>
> Or moving to
>
> Gogs (git.osgeo.org, gogs ticket system)
>
> Which would you choose?

If I pushed at least one commit a month to PostGIS repo,
then my preference might have been relevant, but I don't.
So, I don't feel like getting myself any deeper into the discussion
about important decisions for PostGIS.

I only reacted because my name was included in the "Most people want
Github" party .

Best regards,
--
Mateusz Loskot, http://mateusz.loskot.net
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Re: PSC Vote: Github or Gitea (OSGeo Git) or stay on SVN

Nathan Wagner
In reply to this post by Paul Ramsey
On Tue, Aug 08, 2017 at 05:47:43PM -0700, Paul Ramsey wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 5:38 PM, Regina Obe <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > 3) Developers/users who don't have a github account or don't like
> > committing to github for political reasons.  We lose all these
> > people if they are forced to create a github accounts before they
> > can exchange with us.

> Who? Even this guy <https://github.com/strk> has a github account and it's
> active.

Me for one.  Not that I'm a major contributor.  I can always use
format-patch though.

--
nw
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Re: PSC Vote: Github or Gitea (OSGeo Git) or stay on SVN

Sandro Santilli-4
In reply to this post by Paul Ramsey
On Wed, Aug 09, 2017 at 10:22:00AM +0200, Mateusz Loskot wrote:
> On 9 August 2017 at 01:46, Paul Ramsey <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > I'm sure gogs is technically wunderbar...
>
> feature-wise, it's long development months behind GitHub.
> It's worth to be aware, before getting too excited about gogs/gitea thing.

Confirmed, Gogs/Gitea are behind in terms of features.

But my understanding of the motion is that we'd basically be only using it as
a method to access the GIT repository, because tickets will remain in Trac.

So the only features we should be concerned about are:

 - Availability of service (needs to respond to pulls and pushes)
 - Possibility to control accesses (grant/revoke access to committers)

--strk;
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Re: PSC Vote: Github or Gitea (OSGeo Git) or stay on SVN

Regina Obe
In reply to this post by Paul Ramsey

Dan,

 

So it sounds like you too are indifferent if you commit to svn or git, but would prefer github/tickets there  over svn/trac and choose to do nothing.

 

I'm okay with nothing but everyone seems to be complaining about svn, but now I ask everyone is silent about git being better or  just jumping the github wagon.

 

 

> Just a note: Gitea development has recently been targetted by vandals using GitHub accounts (spam tickets).

 

> Yes, it takes some work to register an OSGeo account.

> Can that be of a value in this world of high noise/signal ratio ?

> strk

 

Yes it can.  I think it's a little too easy to create a github account.

If someone goes thru our "Vetting" process then I know they are more serious than a passerby dropping a pull request.

 

Take for example this guy yes he too has a github account and he has a mirror.  He doesn't accept pull requests at all from github.

 

https://github.com/torvalds/linux

 

One can think politics or just a matter of efficiency.

 

If you look at a lot of the pull requests they are spam.

https://github.com/torvalds/linux/pulls

 

 

Now luckily we are probably too small to attract spam but as github grows the more spam there will be.

 

So yes if someone passes our vetting process, I will look at their patch first and then look at the ones on github after.

 

Also as Nathan said, I don't want to lose people like Nathan and he doesn't care if it's svn or git cause he's just going to drop a patch.

 

I took strk's offer to become an approver of OSGeo requests and some are pretty hard to distinguish.

For example I had one person use a real bio from a GIS developer with one of their confirmed fake gmail accounts.

 

I was able to easily tell because the next item was a different good looking real bio with an email off by one letter from the previous bio.

 

I also hunt by IP addresses or if they have a github that has real activity or if they are on a mailing list to confirm who they are.

 

Thanks,

Regina

 

From: postgis-devel [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Daniel Baston
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2017 9:12 AM
To: PostGIS Development Discussion <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [postgis-devel] PSC Vote: Github or Gitea (OSGeo Git) or stay on SVN

 

End users reporting bugs – many of these don't have github accounts so forcing them to create an osgeo instead of github sounds better. You can argue creating a github account is easier these days.

 

I'm not sure about this.  Remember that the OSGeo account creation process, if you can find it, requires that you send an email or go on IRC and explain why you need to have an account, the null hypothesis being that you want to spam people or perform other mischief**.  If you decide to write a request, you may hear back after a few days, or it may fall through the cracks.  Meanwhile, you have moved on to other work and the information you wanted to paste into the ticket is no longer in front of you.  This is a pretty unwelcoming system, and one that I suspect most people never bother to deal with.

 

If GitHub is not an option, I'd prefer to stick with SVN and Trac.  At least they're stable, and the pull request process doesn't have do diverge into troubleshooting the hosting platform.

 

Dan

 

**Interestingly, when writing this request, users are advised to provide a link to a public profile such as GitHub to verify their identity.

 

On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 8:38 PM, Regina Obe <[hidden email]> wrote:

I think you are overrating the discomfort of having to handle pull requests from github (as a mirror vs. being our official) if everything isn't there and forgetting that you are forcing people who don't have github accounts to create one.

 

There are 3 kinds of contributors I think are important

 

1)      End users reporting bugs – many of these don't have github accounts so forcing them to create an osgeo instead of github sounds better. You can argue creating a github account is easier these days.

2)      Developers who are on github – we take pull requests from them whether I do it from github/gogs/svn doesn't matter to me.  The conversation if changes need to be made is better on github or gogs.

To me after it's committed that's all noise I don't really need in final commit or on ticket.

 

If a dev becomes a serious contributor e.g. Dan Baston or Björn Harrtell then I'd really like them to have an OSGeo account.

From what I presume from both, they just want to work with a git repo and less sensitive to where the official is.

Sandro is already struggling with svn so I know he prefers git.

 

So my reason for wanting the git move is to make it easier for those with commit access already and future.

 

3)      Developers/users who don't have a github account or don't like committing to github for political reasons.  We lose all these people if they are forced to create a github accounts before they can exchange with us.

 

So I'm still +1 for GIT OSGeo and okay with tickets moving from trac to gogs.

 

From: postgis-devel [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Paul Ramsey
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2017 7:46 PM


To: PostGIS Development Discussion <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [postgis-devel] PSC Vote: Github or Gitea (OSGeo Git) or stay on SVN

 

The point isn't features, it's developer density. I don't see any great advantage to gogs if we still have PRs and work managing the github mirror. Might as well continue on w/ trac/svn, since gogs shares the main drawback; forcing folks to get new accounts / logins before they can start engaging.

 

I'm sure gogs is technically wunderbar, but it's not where the persons are.


P.

 

On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 4:38 PM, Regina Obe <[hidden email]> wrote:

Nice.

1) So gogs with the pull and the lazy editing feature (I can edit via the web interface which I have done) has everything github has and appeases my emotional side too
2) appeases my need to be able to know I can access via SQLif I really really wanted to which I got from this:
https://git.osgeo.org/gogs/postgis/postgis/pulls/9#issuecomment-3040

 :)

3) I'm okay with trac eventually moving to gogs.  It would be sweet if we change the r... to the actual git hash.  That seems like a simple r.. map to git hash UPDATE  statement if we have a table that maps svn revision numbers to git which I assume we might be able to generate via the mirror.

That's a minor thing for me though.

Thanks,
Regina




-----Original Message-----
From: postgis-devel [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Sandro Santilli
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2017 6:34 PM
To: PostGIS Development Discussion <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [postgis-devel] PSC Vote: Github or Gitea (OSGeo Git) or stay on SVN

On Tue, Aug 08, 2017 at 06:22:35PM -0400, Regina Obe wrote:
> But OSGEo trac is on postgresql now :) I'm sure if I am given a
> postgresql backup I can figure out how to get data out of it much
> easier than using a github api :)

An XSLT recipe ? :P

I'm speaking as the one who made `Trac -> Gogs` tool based on PostgreSQL queries.
See example results: https://git.osgeo.org/gogs/strk/geos-migration-test/issues
Code: http://strk.kbt.io/projects/go/trac2gogs/

--strk;

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