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Re: OSGeoLive, Sourceforge, and South Africa

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Re: OSGeoLive, Sourceforge, and South Africa

Cameron Shorter
Alex, Angelos and other osgeo-live wizards,

Do you have any comments about making use of the sourceforge mirror for osgeo-live ISOs, as suggested by William.


On 29/02/12 17:11, Hamish wrote:
Subject:
RE: [Live-demo] OSGeo-Live 5.5 ready to distribute at international conferences
From:
William Walter Kinghorn [hidden email]
Date:
Wed, 29 Feb 2012 07:36:51 +0200
To:
[hidden email] [hidden email]

Hi Cameron,

Is it not possible to put the ISO on Sourceforge, as we will be able to download the ISO a lot faster from a closer site

Sourceforge is mirrored in South Africa, so for me it is a quick download

William



William, as you can see from the message below, there seems to be an issue with your emails going to the osgeo-live list. Possibly because you are not subscribed.
--- On Tue, 2/28/12, [hidden email] [hidden email] wrote:

> From: [hidden email] [hidden email]
> Subject: Uncaught bounce notification
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Tuesday, February 28, 2012, 9:43 PM
> The attached message was received as
> a bounce, but either the bounce
> format was not recognized, or no member addresses could be
> extracted
> from it.  This mailing list has been configured to send
> all
> unrecognized bounce messages to the list administrator(s).
> 
> For more information see:
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/admin/live-demo/bounce
> 
> 


-- 
Cameron Shorter
Geospatial Solutions Manager
Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050
Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254

Think Globally, Fix Locally
Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open Source
http://www.lisasoft.com

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Re: OSGeoLive, Sourceforge, and South Africa

Alex Mandel-2
Last time I read up on sourceforge policies dumping a big iso so it
would get mirrored was not an acceptable use of sourceforge resources.
We also have no way to guarantee which mirrors it ends up on. Not all
files go to every mirror, especially big files.
If someone could look up the policies again and check that would be
great (I'm not even sure sourceforge lets you upload files as big as the
ones we have via their interface or ftp).

As I've noted in the past, I would gladly do a torrent if we actually
had enough people to seed it reasonably. Testing on previous releases
has shown that we do not have that kind of demand.

The next option would be to host a South African mirror using our
current mirror system where users from the southern portion of the
continent would likely get the South African mirror auto-selected for
them based on Geo-ip lookup. If anyone volunteers I would be happy to
add them to the mirror database and do my best to keep their downloads
only to the region (throttling or filtering on their end is up to them).

William - using our current download links which mirror do you usually
get directed to and how long does the download take (min, max, or avg?)

Thanks,
Alex

On 02/29/2012 04:04 PM, Cameron Shorter wrote:

> Alex, Angelos and other osgeo-live wizards,
>
> Do you have any comments about making use of the sourceforge mirror for
> osgeo-live ISOs, as suggested by William.
>
>
> On 29/02/12 17:11, Hamish wrote:
>> Subject:
>> RE: [Live-demo] OSGeo-Live 5.5 ready to distribute at international
>> conferences
>> From:
>> William Walter Kinghorn <[hidden email]>
>> Date:
>> Wed, 29 Feb 2012 07:36:51 +0200
>>
>> To:
>> "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
>>
>>
>> Hi Cameron,
>>
>> Is it not possible to put the ISO on Sourceforge, as we will be able
>> to download the ISO a lot faster from a closer site
>>
>> Sourceforge is mirrored in South Africa, so for me it is a quick download
>>
>> William
>
>
>
> William, as you can see from the message below, there seems to be an
> issue with your emails going to the osgeo-live list. Possibly because
> you are not subscribed.
>
> --- On Tue, 2/28/12,[hidden email]
> <[hidden email]>  wrote:
>
>
>> >  From:[hidden email]
>> <[hidden email]>
>> >  Subject: Uncaught bounce notification
>> >  To:[hidden email]
>> >  Date: Tuesday, February 28, 2012, 9:43 PM
>> >  The attached message was received as
>> >  a bounce, but either the bounce
>> >  format was not recognized, or no member addresses could be
>> >  extracted
>> >  from it.  This mailing list has been configured to send
>> >  all
>> >  unrecognized bounce messages to the list administrator(s).
>> >  >  For more information see:
>> >  http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/admin/live-demo/bounce
>> >  >  
>
>

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Re: OSGeoLive, Sourceforge, and South Africa

edgar.soldin
On 01.03.2012 03:19, Alex Mandel wrote:
> If someone could look up the policies again and check that would be
> great (I'm not even sure sourceforge lets you upload files as big as the
> ones we have via their interface or ftp).

although it takes an hour or so until the upload appears, it worked perfectly (incl. mirrors) when i tried it some weeks ago. upload of 1.7GB was done via sftp.

http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/sourceforge/wiki/Release%20files%20for%20download
does not mention any size limitations.

regards ..ede
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Re: OSGeoLive, Sourceforge, and South Africa

edgar.soldin
On 01.03.2012 10:47, [hidden email] wrote:

> On 01.03.2012 03:19, Alex Mandel wrote:
>> If someone could look up the policies again and check that would be
>> great (I'm not even sure sourceforge lets you upload files as big as the
>> ones we have via their interface or ftp).
>
> although it takes an hour or so until the upload appears, it worked perfectly (incl. mirrors) when i tried it some weeks ago. upload of 1.7GB was done via sftp.
>
> http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/sourceforge/wiki/Release%20files%20for%20download
> does not mention any size limitations.
>

http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/sourceforge/wiki/Project%20web%20and%20developer%20web%20platform#Filesizelimits
suggests to use the FRS rather than the web space, no size limits mentioned

..ede
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Re: OSGeoLive, Sourceforge, and South Africa

hamish-2
In reply to this post by edgar.soldin
edgar wrote:
> http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/sourceforge/wiki/Release%20files%20for%20download
> does not mention any size limitations.


In the past there certainly were size limitations discussed in the "don't
abuse us" section of the project upload guidelines, although I don't know if
they were backed up by technical mechanisms. Also I don't know if they don't
mind as much anymore or if those instructions just got lost in one of their
many reinventions of the website UI.

so either we get a nasty-gram or we don't :o)


regards,
Hamish
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Re: OSGeoLive, Sourceforge, and South Africa

Angelos Tzotsos
In reply to this post by Alex Mandel-2
Hi,

I agree with Alex that Sourceforge might be difficult to manage.

Angelos

On 03/01/2012 04:19 AM, Alex Mandel wrote:

> Last time I read up on sourceforge policies dumping a big iso so it
> would get mirrored was not an acceptable use of sourceforge resources.
> We also have no way to guarantee which mirrors it ends up on. Not all
> files go to every mirror, especially big files.
> If someone could look up the policies again and check that would be
> great (I'm not even sure sourceforge lets you upload files as big as the
> ones we have via their interface or ftp).
>
> As I've noted in the past, I would gladly do a torrent if we actually
> had enough people to seed it reasonably. Testing on previous releases
> has shown that we do not have that kind of demand.
>
> The next option would be to host a South African mirror using our
> current mirror system where users from the southern portion of the
> continent would likely get the South African mirror auto-selected for
> them based on Geo-ip lookup. If anyone volunteers I would be happy to
> add them to the mirror database and do my best to keep their downloads
> only to the region (throttling or filtering on their end is up to them).
>
> William - using our current download links which mirror do you usually
> get directed to and how long does the download take (min, max, or avg?)
>
> Thanks,
> Alex
>
> On 02/29/2012 04:04 PM, Cameron Shorter wrote:
>> Alex, Angelos and other osgeo-live wizards,
>>
>> Do you have any comments about making use of the sourceforge mirror for
>> osgeo-live ISOs, as suggested by William.
>>
>>
>> On 29/02/12 17:11, Hamish wrote:
>>> Subject:
>>> RE: [Live-demo] OSGeo-Live 5.5 ready to distribute at international
>>> conferences
>>> From:
>>> William Walter Kinghorn<[hidden email]>
>>> Date:
>>> Wed, 29 Feb 2012 07:36:51 +0200
>>>
>>> To:
>>> "[hidden email]"<[hidden email]>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Cameron,
>>>
>>> Is it not possible to put the ISO on Sourceforge, as we will be able
>>> to download the ISO a lot faster from a closer site
>>>
>>> Sourceforge is mirrored in South Africa, so for me it is a quick download
>>>
>>> William
>>
>>
>> William, as you can see from the message below, there seems to be an
>> issue with your emails going to the osgeo-live list. Possibly because
>> you are not subscribed.
>>
>> --- On Tue, 2/28/12,[hidden email]
>> <[hidden email]>   wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>   From:[hidden email]
>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>>   Subject: Uncaught bounce notification
>>>>   To:[hidden email]
>>>>   Date: Tuesday, February 28, 2012, 9:43 PM
>>>>   The attached message was received as
>>>>   a bounce, but either the bounce
>>>>   format was not recognized, or no member addresses could be
>>>>   extracted
>>>>   from it.  This mailing list has been configured to send
>>>>   all
>>>>   unrecognized bounce messages to the list administrator(s).
>>>>   >   For more information see:
>>>>   http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/admin/live-demo/bounce
>>>>   >
>>
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/live-demo
> http://live.osgeo.org
> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_Disc
>


--
Angelos Tzotsos
Remote Sensing Laboratory
National Technical University of Athens
http://users.ntua.gr/tzotsos

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Re: OSGeoLive, Sourceforge, and South Africa

edgar.soldin
On 01.03.2012 12:28, Angelos Tzotsos wrote:
>
> I agree with Alex that Sourceforge might be difficult to manage.

what exact difficulty did he mention?

..ede
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Re: OSGeoLive, Sourceforge, and South Africa

Angelos Tzotsos
>>  Last time I read up on sourceforge policies dumping a big iso so it
>>  would get mirrored was not an acceptable use of sourceforge resources.
>>  We also have no way to guarantee which mirrors it ends up on. Not all
>>  files go to every mirror, especially big files.



On 03/01/2012 02:36 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> On 01.03.2012 12:28, Angelos Tzotsos wrote:
>> I agree with Alex that Sourceforge might be difficult to manage.
> what exact difficulty did he mention?
>
> ..ede
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
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> http://live.osgeo.org
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>


--
Angelos Tzotsos
Remote Sensing Laboratory
National Technical University of Athens
http://users.ntua.gr/tzotsos

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Re: OSGeoLive, Sourceforge, and South Africa

edgar.soldin
I claimed the opposite, now who is right :). I also took some minutes to browse sf.net docs and didn't find the faintest smell of restrictions like that.

sf.net autoselects mirrors via geoip as well to the best of my knowledge.

..ede

On 01.03.2012 14:02, Angelos Tzotsos wrote:

>>>  Last time I read up on sourceforge policies dumping a big iso so it
>>>  would get mirrored was not an acceptable use of sourceforge resources.
>>>  We also have no way to guarantee which mirrors it ends up on. Not all
>>>  files go to every mirror, especially big files.
>
>
>
> On 03/01/2012 02:36 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> On 01.03.2012 12:28, Angelos Tzotsos wrote:
>>> I agree with Alex that Sourceforge might be difficult to manage.
>> what exact difficulty did he mention?
>>
>> ..ede
>> _______________________________________________
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Re: OSGeoLive, Sourceforge, and South Africa

Angelos Tzotsos
Hi Ede,

I didn't say that this is not accepted from Sourceforge policy. Thank
you for looking this up.
I just want to see the technical part about bringing Sourceforge servers
up to date with such big files.

I understand and agree that having Sourceforge mirror our iso files
would be a great benefit, due to their capacity.

Lets see more details about this issue.

Regards,
Angelos

On 03/01/2012 03:02 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> I claimed the opposite, now who is right :). I also took some minutes to browse sf.net docs and didn't find the faintest smell of restrictions like that.
>
> sf.net autoselects mirrors via geoip as well to the best of my knowledge.
>
> ..ede
>
> On 01.03.2012 14:02, Angelos Tzotsos wrote:
>>>>   Last time I read up on sourceforge policies dumping a big iso so it
>>>>   would get mirrored was not an acceptable use of sourceforge resources.
>>>>   We also have no way to guarantee which mirrors it ends up on. Not all
>>>>   files go to every mirror, especially big files.
>>
>>
>> On 03/01/2012 02:36 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>> On 01.03.2012 12:28, Angelos Tzotsos wrote:
>>>> I agree with Alex that Sourceforge might be difficult to manage.
>>> what exact difficulty did he mention?
>>>
>>> ..ede
>>> _______________________________________________
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/live-demo
> http://live.osgeo.org
> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_Disc
>


--
Angelos Tzotsos
Remote Sensing Laboratory
National Technical University of Athens
http://users.ntua.gr/tzotsos

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Re: OSGeoLive, Sourceforge, and South Africa

Alex Mandel-2
In reply to this post by edgar.soldin
On 03/01/2012 01:52 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

> On 01.03.2012 10:47, [hidden email] wrote:
>> On 01.03.2012 03:19, Alex Mandel wrote:
>>> If someone could look up the policies again and check that would be
>>> great (I'm not even sure sourceforge lets you upload files as big as the
>>> ones we have via their interface or ftp).
>>
>> although it takes an hour or so until the upload appears, it worked perfectly (incl. mirrors) when i tried it some weeks ago. upload of 1.7GB was done via sftp.
>>
>> http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/sourceforge/wiki/Release%20files%20for%20download
>> does not mention any size limitations.
>>
>
> http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/sourceforge/wiki/Project%20web%20and%20developer%20web%20platform#Filesizelimits
> suggests to use the FRS rather than the web space, no size limits mentioned
>
> ..ede
> _______________________________________________

Thanks, that info seems new since the last time I poked around
sourceforge. It still isn't clear which mirrors the files will end up on
or how long it takes (might take a week?).

Next I'll look into what kind of download statistics they keep.

Thanks,
Alex
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Re: OSGeoLive, Sourceforge, and South Africa

Alex Mandel-2
On 03/01/2012 09:54 AM, Alex Mandel wrote:

> On 03/01/2012 01:52 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> On 01.03.2012 10:47, [hidden email] wrote:
>>> On 01.03.2012 03:19, Alex Mandel wrote:
>>>> If someone could look up the policies again and check that would be
>>>> great (I'm not even sure sourceforge lets you upload files as big as the
>>>> ones we have via their interface or ftp).
>>>
>>> although it takes an hour or so until the upload appears, it worked perfectly (incl. mirrors) when i tried it some weeks ago. upload of 1.7GB was done via sftp.
>>>
>>> http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/sourceforge/wiki/Release%20files%20for%20download
>>> does not mention any size limitations.
>>>
>>
>> http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/sourceforge/wiki/Project%20web%20and%20developer%20web%20platform#Filesizelimits
>> suggests to use the FRS rather than the web space, no size limits mentioned
>>
>> ..ede
>> _______________________________________________
>
> Thanks, that info seems new since the last time I poked around
> sourceforge. It still isn't clear which mirrors the files will end up on
> or how long it takes (might take a week?).
>
> Next I'll look into what kind of download statistics they keep.
>
> Thanks,
> Alex

So I'll add the one downside of not using our own mirrors, we will no
longer have access to the full download statistics of bytes per IP.
There may also be a Public Relations side to all of this.

Not a huge deal since I have plenty of backlogs for my research into who
is downloading where and how long it takes, but it would be hard for us
to track what countries were reaching in the future.

I'd prefer to continue pursuing volunteers/sponsors to host mirrors in
more places but have no outright objection to the consideration of
sourceforge.

Thanks,
Alex
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Re: OSGeoLive, Sourceforge, and South Africa

edgar.soldin
On 01.03.2012 19:41, Alex Mandel wrote:

> On 03/01/2012 09:54 AM, Alex Mandel wrote:
>> On 03/01/2012 01:52 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>> On 01.03.2012 10:47, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>> On 01.03.2012 03:19, Alex Mandel wrote:
>>>>> If someone could look up the policies again and check that would be
>>>>> great (I'm not even sure sourceforge lets you upload files as big as the
>>>>> ones we have via their interface or ftp).
>>>>
>>>> although it takes an hour or so until the upload appears, it worked perfectly (incl. mirrors) when i tried it some weeks ago. upload of 1.7GB was done via sftp.
>>>>
>>>> http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/sourceforge/wiki/Release%20files%20for%20download
>>>> does not mention any size limitations.
>>>>
>>>
>>> http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/sourceforge/wiki/Project%20web%20and%20developer%20web%20platform#Filesizelimits
>>> suggests to use the FRS rather than the web space, no size limits mentioned
>>>
>>> ..ede
>>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Thanks, that info seems new since the last time I poked around
>> sourceforge. It still isn't clear which mirrors the files will end up on
>> or how long it takes (might take a week?).
>>
>> Next I'll look into what kind of download statistics they keep.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Alex
>
> So I'll add the one downside of not using our own mirrors, we will no
> longer have access to the full download statistics of bytes per IP.
> There may also be a Public Relations side to all of this.
>
> Not a huge deal since I have plenty of backlogs for my research into who
> is downloading where and how long it takes, but it would be hard for us
> to track what countries were reaching in the future.
>
> I'd prefer to continue pursuing volunteers/sponsors to host mirrors in
> more places but have no outright objection to the consideration of
> sourceforge.
>

you have seen the download stats there with downloads by country section on sf.net right? doesn't that suit your purpose?

..ede
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Re: OSGeoLive, Sourceforge, and South Africa

Alex Mandel-2
On 03/01/2012 10:47 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

> On 01.03.2012 19:41, Alex Mandel wrote:
>> On 03/01/2012 09:54 AM, Alex Mandel wrote:
>>> On 03/01/2012 01:52 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>> On 01.03.2012 10:47, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>>> On 01.03.2012 03:19, Alex Mandel wrote:
>>>>>> If someone could look up the policies again and check that would be
>>>>>> great (I'm not even sure sourceforge lets you upload files as big as the
>>>>>> ones we have via their interface or ftp).
>>>>>
>>>>> although it takes an hour or so until the upload appears, it worked perfectly (incl. mirrors) when i tried it some weeks ago. upload of 1.7GB was done via sftp.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/sourceforge/wiki/Release%20files%20for%20download
>>>>> does not mention any size limitations.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/sourceforge/wiki/Project%20web%20and%20developer%20web%20platform#Filesizelimits
>>>> suggests to use the FRS rather than the web space, no size limits mentioned
>>>>
>>>> ..ede
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Thanks, that info seems new since the last time I poked around
>>> sourceforge. It still isn't clear which mirrors the files will end up on
>>> or how long it takes (might take a week?).
>>>
>>> Next I'll look into what kind of download statistics they keep.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Alex
>>
>> So I'll add the one downside of not using our own mirrors, we will no
>> longer have access to the full download statistics of bytes per IP.
>> There may also be a Public Relations side to all of this.
>>
>> Not a huge deal since I have plenty of backlogs for my research into who
>> is downloading where and how long it takes, but it would be hard for us
>> to track what countries were reaching in the future.
>>
>> I'd prefer to continue pursuing volunteers/sponsors to host mirrors in
>> more places but have no outright objection to the consideration of
>> sourceforge.
>>
>
> you have seen the download stats there with downloads by country section on sf.net right? doesn't that suit your purpose?
>
> ..ede
> _______________________________________________

I hadn't found that yet, but have now. It also has an api to get it as
json https://sourceforge.net/p/forge/documentation/Download%20Stats%20API/
That should work well. We could also add piwik style analytics to our
main website to capture clicks on the initial download buttons just in case.

So, yes I think this idea could work out. I'll look into it more and do
some tests.

Thanks,
Alex

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Re: OSGeoLive, Sourceforge, and South Africa

Alex Mandel-2
In reply to this post by Angelos Tzotsos
I've gone ahead and setup osgeo-live on sourceforge. Enabling just the
download tools and no other features. Initial test transfer of 5.5
release is in progress.

We will keep our current mirror setup for development and it will stay
up until the 6.0 release. If the sourceforge mirrors seems to be working
in a week or 2 we can update the website to redirect to sourceforge
download urls.

FYI, the only thing I think we'll run into, is that Xubuntu contains SSH
and might be subject to export restrictions, so some users in some
countries legally can probably only get downloads from the Greek mirror
where such restrictions don't exist.

Thanks,
Alex

PS: release team, tell me your sourceforge IDs so I can grant you
permissions.

On 03/01/2012 05:18 AM, Angelos Tzotsos wrote:

> Hi Ede,
>
> I didn't say that this is not accepted from Sourceforge policy. Thank
> you for looking this up.
> I just want to see the technical part about bringing Sourceforge servers
> up to date with such big files.
>
> I understand and agree that having Sourceforge mirror our iso files
> would be a great benefit, due to their capacity.
>
> Lets see more details about this issue.
>
> Regards,
> Angelos
>
> On 03/01/2012 03:02 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> I claimed the opposite, now who is right :). I also took some minutes
>> to browse sf.net docs and didn't find the faintest smell of
>> restrictions like that.
>>
>> sf.net autoselects mirrors via geoip as well to the best of my knowledge.
>>
>> ..ede
>>
>> On 01.03.2012 14:02, Angelos Tzotsos wrote:
>>>>>   Last time I read up on sourceforge policies dumping a big iso so it
>>>>>   would get mirrored was not an acceptable use of sourceforge
>>>>> resources.
>>>>>   We also have no way to guarantee which mirrors it ends up on. Not
>>>>> all
>>>>>   files go to every mirror, especially big files.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 03/01/2012 02:36 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>> On 01.03.2012 12:28, Angelos Tzotsos wrote:
>>>>> I agree with Alex that Sourceforge might be difficult to manage.
>>>> what exact difficulty did he mention?
>>>>
>>>> ..ede
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> http://live.osgeo.org
>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_Disc
>>
>
>

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Re: OSGeoLive, Sourceforge, and South Africa

edgar.soldin
On 02.03.2012 00:43, Alex Mandel wrote:
>
> FYI, the only thing I think we'll run into, is that Xubuntu contains SSH
> and might be subject to export restrictions, so some users in some
> countries legally can probably only get downloads from the Greek mirror
> where such restrictions don't exist.
>

as USA has some legal restrictions about exporting encryption sf.net as usamerican company has to honor these.

currently the regulation is
- enable encryption under ProjectAdmin/Settings/ExportControls
- the link there is dead, but this page explains what to do
http://www.bis.doc.gov/encryption/
alternatively a mail to [hidden email] might shed some light on it

..ede
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