Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Board] RE : Re: OSGEO4W future

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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Board] RE : Re: OSGEO4W future

Tamas Szekeres
Frank,

The RFC looks pretty good, thanks for putting that together. Once the PSC is formed, I'm keen on writing a second one where we could start thinking about the primary objectives and requirements of the system we should realize, I think we all have quite some ideas, and experiences in creating windows builds (both positive and negative) which makes it possible to find out the right direction to follow.

I also think packaging on Windows is a different thing, other platforms may apply for a separate governance regarding to the binary distributions, there might be some common aspects, though.

Best regards,

Tamas



2013/9/25 Frank Warmerdam <[hidden email]>
Folks,

I have initiated an RFC for a project management committee for
OSGeo4W.  I'd encourage everyone interested in participating to joint
the osgeo4w-dev mailing list and to continue detailed discussion
there.

 http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/osgeo4w-dev

I think this list (osgeo-discuss) is a great place to discuss linkages
between different packaging efforts.

Best regards,
Frank


On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 2:06 AM, Jo Cook <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The newest version of Portable GIS doesn't require quite so many admin
> privileges, but I've also slimmed it down dramatically so it fits on a
> smaller USB stick, so it contains a lot less software (no gvsig, no mysql
> etc). It is used extensively for training courses in the UK, without too
> many problems, and the new version should be better again as I have a
> windows 8 VM to test on at last.
>
> I'd like to bring Portable GIS in line with OSGeo4W and OSGeo Live- I've
> spoken to both Alex and Cameron about this in the past- but I have some work
> to do before that's possible- namely around documenting exactly which files
> I change, and also the build process. It's all in a local mercurial
> repository at the moment, but I'd really like to get it online. To be
> honest, my big concern is that I don't always have time to focus on things
> outside of my core work (maybe that will change post FOSS4G) and I can't
> guarantee being able to pitch in at release time, or even respond to issues
> in a timely manner. That's the main reason why I've kept it as a little pet
> project- so I'm not letting anyone else down!
>
> Sorry, didn't mean to hijack this discussion!
>
> I think it makes sense to come up with an over-arching
> project/committee/whatever that covers both OSGeo4W and OSGeo-Live, and
> maybe PortableGIS at some point, rather than separate projects. It's always
> better to share work rather than replicate it. Does anyone have any
> objections to that idea? Personally, I'd then sketch out the workflows for
> each, and figure out what make-up of committee would be required to oversee
> that and go through incubation.
>
> Jo
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 2:04 AM, Alex Mandel <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> On 09/24/2013 12:50 AM, Johan Van de Wauw wrote:
>> > On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 2:08 AM, Angelos Tzotsos <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Hi Daniel,
>> >>
>> >> I am in favor of both OSGeoLive and OSGeo4W going through a few weeks
>> >> incubation process.
>> >>
>> >> Best,
>> >> Angelos
>> >>
>> > My own impression is that if we want to reach out to non-geek GIS
>> > users the ideal way would be a system like portable GIS with the great
>> > documentation of the live dvd, ie run and test the programs without
>> > needing to be admin or having to install different programs.
>>
>> I've researched this problem, talked with Jo (Current author of
>> PortableGIS http://www.archaeogeek.com/portable-gis.html)
>>
>> There is almost no way to make this work without Admin priveleges on a
>> windows machine. Some individual apps can be made to work by extensively
>> modifying how they look for libs but many require things like a jvm to
>> run on top of, or a mix of system an local libs (e.g. Visual C++ is
>> required for many OSGeo4W apps and requires an install, that's actually
>> about the only part that has to be installed vs just in the OSGeo4w
>> folder).
>>
>> This is actually why I settled on helping create OSGeo Live bootable
>> products and virtual machines. Of course this isn't perfect either as
>> figuring out how to boot a disk or usb seems beyond some users, and the
>> virtual machine still hits needing admin to install virtualization
>> software.
>>
>> I also agree there's no reason many of the documentation efforts can't
>> be shared.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Alex
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
>
>
>
> --
> Jo Cook
> Astun Technology Ltd, The Coach House, 17 West Street, Epsom, Surrey, KT18
> 7RL, UK
> t:<a href="tel:%2B44%207930%20524%20155" value="+447930524155">+44 7930 524 155
> iShare - Data integration and publishing platform
>
> *****************************************
>
> Company registration no. 5410695. Registered in England and Wales.
> Registered office: 120 Manor Green Road, Epsom, Surrey, KT19 8LN VAT no.
> 864201149.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss



--
---------------------------------------+--------------------------------------
I set the clouds in motion - turn up   | Frank Warmerdam, [hidden email]
light and sound - activate the windows | http://pobox.com/~warmerdam
and watch the world go round - Rush    | Geospatial Software Developer
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


_______________________________________________
osgeo4w-dev mailing list
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Board] RE : Re: OSGEO4W future

Frank Warmerdam

Tamas,

I agree with you, Daniel and Jurgen that we would be focused on windows though I am optimistic that OSGeo4W could also be a source for those trying to make custom windows installers (ie. Portable GIS, what I used to do with FWTools and possibly even Jeff with MS4W). 

Once we have a PSC, we need to discuss direction and then nail a plan down and agree to it. 

Best regards,
Frank


On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 3:34 PM, Tamas Szekeres <[hidden email]> wrote:
Frank,

The RFC looks pretty good, thanks for putting that together. Once the PSC is formed, I'm keen on writing a second one where we could start thinking about the primary objectives and requirements of the system we should realize, I think we all have quite some ideas, and experiences in creating windows builds (both positive and negative) which makes it possible to find out the right direction to follow.

I also think packaging on Windows is a different thing, other platforms may apply for a separate governance regarding to the binary distributions, there might be some common aspects, though.

Best regards,

Tamas



2013/9/25 Frank Warmerdam <[hidden email]>
Folks,

I have initiated an RFC for a project management committee for
OSGeo4W.  I'd encourage everyone interested in participating to joint
the osgeo4w-dev mailing list and to continue detailed discussion
there.

 http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/osgeo4w-dev

I think this list (osgeo-discuss) is a great place to discuss linkages
between different packaging efforts.

Best regards,
Frank


On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 2:06 AM, Jo Cook <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The newest version of Portable GIS doesn't require quite so many admin
> privileges, but I've also slimmed it down dramatically so it fits on a
> smaller USB stick, so it contains a lot less software (no gvsig, no mysql
> etc). It is used extensively for training courses in the UK, without too
> many problems, and the new version should be better again as I have a
> windows 8 VM to test on at last.
>
> I'd like to bring Portable GIS in line with OSGeo4W and OSGeo Live- I've
> spoken to both Alex and Cameron about this in the past- but I have some work
> to do before that's possible- namely around documenting exactly which files
> I change, and also the build process. It's all in a local mercurial
> repository at the moment, but I'd really like to get it online. To be
> honest, my big concern is that I don't always have time to focus on things
> outside of my core work (maybe that will change post FOSS4G) and I can't
> guarantee being able to pitch in at release time, or even respond to issues
> in a timely manner. That's the main reason why I've kept it as a little pet
> project- so I'm not letting anyone else down!
>
> Sorry, didn't mean to hijack this discussion!
>
> I think it makes sense to come up with an over-arching
> project/committee/whatever that covers both OSGeo4W and OSGeo-Live, and
> maybe PortableGIS at some point, rather than separate projects. It's always
> better to share work rather than replicate it. Does anyone have any
> objections to that idea? Personally, I'd then sketch out the workflows for
> each, and figure out what make-up of committee would be required to oversee
> that and go through incubation.
>
> Jo
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 2:04 AM, Alex Mandel <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> On 09/24/2013 12:50 AM, Johan Van de Wauw wrote:
>> > On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 2:08 AM, Angelos Tzotsos <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Hi Daniel,
>> >>
>> >> I am in favor of both OSGeoLive and OSGeo4W going through a few weeks
>> >> incubation process.
>> >>
>> >> Best,
>> >> Angelos
>> >>
>> > My own impression is that if we want to reach out to non-geek GIS
>> > users the ideal way would be a system like portable GIS with the great
>> > documentation of the live dvd, ie run and test the programs without
>> > needing to be admin or having to install different programs.
>>
>> I've researched this problem, talked with Jo (Current author of
>> PortableGIS http://www.archaeogeek.com/portable-gis.html)
>>
>> There is almost no way to make this work without Admin priveleges on a
>> windows machine. Some individual apps can be made to work by extensively
>> modifying how they look for libs but many require things like a jvm to
>> run on top of, or a mix of system an local libs (e.g. Visual C++ is
>> required for many OSGeo4W apps and requires an install, that's actually
>> about the only part that has to be installed vs just in the OSGeo4w
>> folder).
>>
>> This is actually why I settled on helping create OSGeo Live bootable
>> products and virtual machines. Of course this isn't perfect either as
>> figuring out how to boot a disk or usb seems beyond some users, and the
>> virtual machine still hits needing admin to install virtualization
>> software.
>>
>> I also agree there's no reason many of the documentation efforts can't
>> be shared.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Alex
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
>
>
>
> --
> Jo Cook
> Astun Technology Ltd, The Coach House, 17 West Street, Epsom, Surrey, KT18
> 7RL, UK
> t:<a href="tel:%2B44%207930%20524%20155" value="+447930524155" target="_blank">+44 7930 524 155
> iShare - Data integration and publishing platform
>
> *****************************************
>
> Company registration no. 5410695. Registered in England and Wales.
> Registered office: 120 Manor Green Road, Epsom, Surrey, KT19 8LN VAT no.
> 864201149.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss



--
---------------------------------------+--------------------------------------
I set the clouds in motion - turn up   | Frank Warmerdam, [hidden email]
light and sound - activate the windows | http://pobox.com/~warmerdam
and watch the world go round - Rush    | Geospatial Software Developer
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss




--
---------------------------------------+--------------------------------------
I set the clouds in motion - turn up   | Frank Warmerdam, [hidden email]
light and sound - activate the windows | http://pobox.com/~warmerdam
and watch the world go round - Rush    | Geospatial Software Developer

_______________________________________________
osgeo4w-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/osgeo4w-dev
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Board] RE : Re: OSGEO4W future

Jürgen E. Fischer
Hi,

On Wed, 25. Sep 2013 at 15:36:17 -0700, Frank Warmerdam wrote:
> I agree with you, Daniel and Jurgen that we would be focused on windows
> though I am optimistic that OSGeo4W could also be a source for those trying
> to make custom windows installers (ie. Portable GIS, what I used to do with
> FWTools and possibly even Jeff with MS4W).

We already do that for QGIS - the NSIS standalone/double-click installer is
created from OSGeo4W packages.

So for me that already works quite well and I'm not really tempted to throw it
all overboard and start from scratch.


Jürgen

--
Jürgen E. Fischer         norBIT GmbH               Tel. +49-4931-918175-31
Dipl.-Inf. (FH)           Rheinstraße 13            Fax. +49-4931-918175-50
Software Engineer         D-26506 Norden               http://www.norbit.de
QGIS PSC member (RM)                                   IRC: jef on FreeNode                        

--
norBIT Gesellschaft fuer Unternehmensberatung und Informationssysteme mbH
Rheinstrasse 13, 26506 Norden
GF: Jelto Buurman, HR: Amtsgericht Emden, HRB 5502

_______________________________________________
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Board] RE : Re: OSGEO4W future

Helmut Kudrnovsky

>We already do that for QGIS - the NSIS standalone/double-click installer is
>created from OSGeo4W packages.

the same for winGRASS-standalone/double-click installer, it's also based upon OSGeo4W

>So for me that already works quite well and I'm not really tempted to throw it
>all overboard and start from scratch.

the same for winGRASS


best regards
Helmut
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Board] RE : Re: OSGEO4W future

Landon Blake-2
In reply to this post by Tamas Szekeres
I do a lot of open source development on Windows. I'm interested in supporting this new direction for OSGeo4W. I especially like the idea of helping Windows programmers set-up build environments for open source GIS packages.

Landon


On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 3:34 PM, Tamas Szekeres <[hidden email]> wrote:
Frank,

The RFC looks pretty good, thanks for putting that together. Once the PSC is formed, I'm keen on writing a second one where we could start thinking about the primary objectives and requirements of the system we should realize, I think we all have quite some ideas, and experiences in creating windows builds (both positive and negative) which makes it possible to find out the right direction to follow.

I also think packaging on Windows is a different thing, other platforms may apply for a separate governance regarding to the binary distributions, there might be some common aspects, though.

Best regards,

Tamas



2013/9/25 Frank Warmerdam <[hidden email]>
Folks,

I have initiated an RFC for a project management committee for
OSGeo4W.  I'd encourage everyone interested in participating to joint
the osgeo4w-dev mailing list and to continue detailed discussion
there.

 http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/osgeo4w-dev

I think this list (osgeo-discuss) is a great place to discuss linkages
between different packaging efforts.

Best regards,
Frank


On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 2:06 AM, Jo Cook <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The newest version of Portable GIS doesn't require quite so many admin
> privileges, but I've also slimmed it down dramatically so it fits on a
> smaller USB stick, so it contains a lot less software (no gvsig, no mysql
> etc). It is used extensively for training courses in the UK, without too
> many problems, and the new version should be better again as I have a
> windows 8 VM to test on at last.
>
> I'd like to bring Portable GIS in line with OSGeo4W and OSGeo Live- I've
> spoken to both Alex and Cameron about this in the past- but I have some work
> to do before that's possible- namely around documenting exactly which files
> I change, and also the build process. It's all in a local mercurial
> repository at the moment, but I'd really like to get it online. To be
> honest, my big concern is that I don't always have time to focus on things
> outside of my core work (maybe that will change post FOSS4G) and I can't
> guarantee being able to pitch in at release time, or even respond to issues
> in a timely manner. That's the main reason why I've kept it as a little pet
> project- so I'm not letting anyone else down!
>
> Sorry, didn't mean to hijack this discussion!
>
> I think it makes sense to come up with an over-arching
> project/committee/whatever that covers both OSGeo4W and OSGeo-Live, and
> maybe PortableGIS at some point, rather than separate projects. It's always
> better to share work rather than replicate it. Does anyone have any
> objections to that idea? Personally, I'd then sketch out the workflows for
> each, and figure out what make-up of committee would be required to oversee
> that and go through incubation.
>
> Jo
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 2:04 AM, Alex Mandel <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> On 09/24/2013 12:50 AM, Johan Van de Wauw wrote:
>> > On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 2:08 AM, Angelos Tzotsos <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Hi Daniel,
>> >>
>> >> I am in favor of both OSGeoLive and OSGeo4W going through a few weeks
>> >> incubation process.
>> >>
>> >> Best,
>> >> Angelos
>> >>
>> > My own impression is that if we want to reach out to non-geek GIS
>> > users the ideal way would be a system like portable GIS with the great
>> > documentation of the live dvd, ie run and test the programs without
>> > needing to be admin or having to install different programs.
>>
>> I've researched this problem, talked with Jo (Current author of
>> PortableGIS http://www.archaeogeek.com/portable-gis.html)
>>
>> There is almost no way to make this work without Admin priveleges on a
>> windows machine. Some individual apps can be made to work by extensively
>> modifying how they look for libs but many require things like a jvm to
>> run on top of, or a mix of system an local libs (e.g. Visual C++ is
>> required for many OSGeo4W apps and requires an install, that's actually
>> about the only part that has to be installed vs just in the OSGeo4w
>> folder).
>>
>> This is actually why I settled on helping create OSGeo Live bootable
>> products and virtual machines. Of course this isn't perfect either as
>> figuring out how to boot a disk or usb seems beyond some users, and the
>> virtual machine still hits needing admin to install virtualization
>> software.
>>
>> I also agree there's no reason many of the documentation efforts can't
>> be shared.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Alex
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
>
>
>
> --
> Jo Cook
> Astun Technology Ltd, The Coach House, 17 West Street, Epsom, Surrey, KT18
> 7RL, UK
> t:<a href="tel:%2B44%207930%20524%20155" value="+447930524155" target="_blank">+44 7930 524 155
> iShare - Data integration and publishing platform
>
> *****************************************
>
> Company registration no. 5410695. Registered in England and Wales.
> Registered office: 120 Manor Green Road, Epsom, Surrey, KT19 8LN VAT no.
> 864201149.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss



--
---------------------------------------+--------------------------------------
I set the clouds in motion - turn up   | Frank Warmerdam, [hidden email]
light and sound - activate the windows | http://pobox.com/~warmerdam
and watch the world go round - Rush    | Geospatial Software Developer
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


_______________________________________________
osgeo4w-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/osgeo4w-dev
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Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Board] RE : Re: OSGEO4W future

mhw-at-yg
In reply to this post by Tamas Szekeres
The RFC looks good to me too. The process of introducing and passing proposals is straightforward, with a process for working through dispute, using methods that we've seen used successfully elsewhere.

I don't have anything to add, except perhaps a mention that adding/removing individual packages from the distribution doesn't necessarily need an RFC, but that it is good form to announce on the mailing list in advance of intention to do so.

cheers,
matt wilkie
--------------------------------------------
Geomatics Analyst
Information Management and Technology
Yukon Department of Environment
10 Burns Road * Whitehorse, Yukon * Y1A 4Y9
867-667-8133 Tel * 867-393-7003 Fax
http://environmentyukon.gov.yk.ca/geomatics/
-------------------------------------------- 
On 25/09/2013 3:34 PM, Tamas Szekeres wrote:
Frank,

The RFC looks pretty good, thanks for putting that together. Once the PSC is formed, I'm keen on writing a second one where we could start thinking about the primary objectives and requirements of the system we should realize, I think we all have quite some ideas, and experiences in creating windows builds (both positive and negative) which makes it possible to find out the right direction to follow.

I also think packaging on Windows is a different thing, other platforms may apply for a separate governance regarding to the binary distributions, there might be some common aspects, though.

Best regards,

Tamas



2013/9/25 Frank Warmerdam <[hidden email]>
Folks,

I have initiated an RFC for a project management committee for
OSGeo4W.  I'd encourage everyone interested in participating to joint
the osgeo4w-dev mailing list and to continue detailed discussion
there.

 http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/osgeo4w-dev

I think this list (osgeo-discuss) is a great place to discuss linkages
between different packaging efforts.

Best regards,
Frank


_______________________________________________
osgeo4w-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/osgeo4w-dev
-Matt