Re: 2019 OSGeo UN Committee Educational Challenge

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Re: 2019 OSGeo UN Committee Educational Challenge

Jonathan Moules-4

I've just taken a look at this and noticed this line as one of the evaluation criteria:


> Proposer’s age (20 if <= 40 years old; 0 if >40 years old): 20 (max)

When did explicit age discrimination (i.e. ageism) become acceptable?


It seems to run counter to the OSGeo Goal of:
"be a welcoming and inclusive worldwide organization at all levels;"


Not to mention the Code of Conduct:

"OSGeo welcomes and encourages participation by everyone" - as long as you're young?




On 2019-05-18 17:33, Maria Antonia Brovelli wrote:
Dear All
it is the time for a new exciting OSGeo UN Challenge.

Proposals are invited for developing open geospatial educational material for two challenges:

Challenge 1: PostGIS training material update
Challenge 2: Open geospatial data and software for UN SDG 16, Peace justice and strong institutions

Prize money of USD 3,000 for each challenge is sponsored by OSGeo.

Deadline for submission is 9 July 2019 (with no extension).

Information is available here: 


Happy weekend!
Maria and Serena



----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)

https://orcid.org/0000-0003-3161-556





 


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R: 2019 OSGeo UN Committee Educational Challenge

Maria Antonia Brovelli
Thanks for your comment.  I have a different opinion. 
People with more than 40 years can apply. 
Moeover the scores will be compensated by their experience, as there are also scores for this:

  1. Proposer’s documented experience in education and training: 20 (max)
And I believe that, for a person with experience, it is easier to write a better proposal (40 scores).

In my opinion, on the opposite, our choice goes into the direction of being  inclusive with young people. 

Anyhow there is a Code of Conduct Committee. If they decided that the criteria as a whole are against inclusion, we would change as they propose.

Best regards
Maria 



Inviato dal mio dispositivo Samsung
-------- Messaggio originale --------
Da: Jonathan Moules <[hidden email]>
Data: 19/05/19 19:02 (GMT+01:00)
A: [hidden email]
Oggetto: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] 2019 OSGeo UN Committee Educational Challenge

I've just taken a look at this and noticed this line as one of the evaluation criteria:


> Proposer’s age (20 if <= 40 years old; 0 if >40 years old): 20 (max)

When did explicit age discrimination (i.e. ageism) become acceptable?


It seems to run counter to the OSGeo Goal of:
"be a welcoming and inclusive worldwide organization at all levels;"


Not to mention the Code of Conduct:

"OSGeo welcomes and encourages participation by everyone" - as long as you're young?




On 2019-05-18 17:33, Maria Antonia Brovelli wrote:
Dear All
it is the time for a new exciting OSGeo UN Challenge.

Proposals are invited for developing open geospatial educational material for two challenges:

Challenge 1: PostGIS training material update
Challenge 2: Open geospatial data and software for UN SDG 16, Peace justice and strong institutions

Prize money of USD 3,000 for each challenge is sponsored by OSGeo.

Deadline for submission is 9 July 2019 (with no extension).

Information is available here: 


Happy weekend!
Maria and Serena



----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)

https://orcid.org/0000-0003-3161-556





 


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Re: R: 2019 OSGeo UN Committee Educational Challenge

Jonathan Moules-4

Hi Maria,


> People with more than 40 years can apply.

Yes but they suffer a 20% penalty, that's a very significant penalty and is explicitly discriminatory against what is commonly considered a "protected attribute" (age), hence my raising the issue.


> Moeover the scores will be compensated by their experience,

The problem with this is that you are assuming that people >=40 have experience with both writing proposals and giving training. Statistically they're more likely to have such experience but it's by no means guaranteed, it depends entirely on their career path.


If you want experienced writers then evaluate for experienced writers. If you want inexperienced writers so you can teach them (which isn't the explicit goal of the Challenge as far as I can see, though it could be implied by the existence of mentors), then evaluate and pick inexperienced. Age should not be a factor, only experience.


Cheers,

Jonathan



On 2019-05-19 20:03, Maria Antonia Brovelli wrote:
Thanks for your comment.  I have a different opinion. 
People with more than 40 years can apply. 
Moeover the scores will be compensated by their experience, as there are also scores for this:

  1. Proposer’s documented experience in education and training: 20 (max)
And I believe that, for a person with experience, it is easier to write a better proposal (40 scores).

In my opinion, on the opposite, our choice goes into the direction of being  inclusive with young people. 

Anyhow there is a Code of Conduct Committee. If they decided that the criteria as a whole are against inclusion, we would change as they propose.

Best regards
Maria 



Inviato dal mio dispositivo Samsung
-------- Messaggio originale --------
Da: Jonathan Moules [hidden email]
Data: 19/05/19 19:02 (GMT+01:00)
A: [hidden email]
Oggetto: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] 2019 OSGeo UN Committee Educational Challenge

I've just taken a look at this and noticed this line as one of the evaluation criteria:


> Proposer’s age (20 if <= 40 years old; 0 if >40 years old): 20 (max)

When did explicit age discrimination (i.e. ageism) become acceptable?


It seems to run counter to the OSGeo Goal of:
"be a welcoming and inclusive worldwide organization at all levels;"


Not to mention the Code of Conduct:

"OSGeo welcomes and encourages participation by everyone" - as long as you're young?




On 2019-05-18 17:33, Maria Antonia Brovelli wrote:
Dear All
it is the time for a new exciting OSGeo UN Challenge.

Proposals are invited for developing open geospatial educational material for two challenges:

Challenge 1: PostGIS training material update
Challenge 2: Open geospatial data and software for UN SDG 16, Peace justice and strong institutions

Prize money of USD 3,000 for each challenge is sponsored by OSGeo.

Deadline for submission is 9 July 2019 (with no extension).

Information is available here: 


Happy weekend!
Maria and Serena



----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)

https://orcid.org/0000-0003-3161-556





 


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Re: R: 2019 OSGeo UN Committee Educational Challenge

Ben Caradoc-Davies-2
In reply to this post by Maria Antonia Brovelli
On 20/05/2019 07:03, Maria Antonia Brovelli wrote:
> Anyhow there is a Code of Conduct Committee. If they decided that the criteria as a whole are against inclusion, we would change as they propose.

My understanding of the Code of Conduct is that it was intended to apply
to the conduct of individuals, not policy decisions by OSGeo.

Kind regards,

--
Ben Caradoc-Davies <[hidden email]>
Director
Transient Software Limited <https://transient.nz/>
New Zealand
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Re: R: 2019 OSGeo UN Committee Educational Challenge

Ben Caradoc-Davies-2
In reply to this post by Jonathan Moules-4
On 20/05/2019 07:28, Jonathan Moules wrote:
>  > People with more than 40 years can apply.
> Yes but they suffer a 20% penalty, that's a very significant penalty and
> is explicitly discriminatory against what is commonly considered a
> "protected attribute" (age), hence my raising the issue.
>  > Moeover the scores will be compensated by their experience,
> The problem with this is that you are assuming that people >=40 have
> experience with both writing proposals and giving training.
> Statistically they're more likely to have such experience but it's by no
> means guaranteed, it depends entirely on their career path.

Discrimination against older people is a serious problem in the software
industry, especially new entrants or returning participants in junior
roles. I do not think that OSGeo should endorse this practice. We should
be inclusive.

The text also states that the gender of the proposer is a criterion. Why
only gender and not sexuality, ability, or other diversity criteria?
Will OSGeo accept self-reported gender identity?

I prefer to avoid these identity-related criteria because they are not
inclusive. The other criteria look good to me.

Kind regards,

--
Ben Caradoc-Davies <[hidden email]>
Director
Transient Software Limited <https://transient.nz/>
New Zealand
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