Open open source, reduce registration fees.

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Open open source, reduce registration fees.

stevenfeldman
Reposting this from the board list as it may interest the CC.

The current target in RfP is $650 including social activities but excluding workshops. The costs of travel and accommodation have equalled or, for out of region delegates, exceed the registration costs.

To my knowledge no proposal has been received for the last 5 years that was able to support 800+ delegates at ca $500

2019 will be a ‘European’ year, I am sure that the CC would welcome a $500 proposal from the Netherlands community

______
Steven

Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 09:38:47 +0000
From: <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Board] Open open source, reduce registration fees.
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Dear board,

Where is the cap on registration fees for FOSS4G? You have closed open source to me with these steep registration fees. You have to change this. A few years ago I could hardly convince my departmental management to pay for registration. Now it is impossible! Please open up the conference again. Open open source! Those who cannot organize a conference below $500 should not be allowed to organize. Scale down. No fancy stuff. Back to the basics! Back to the core!

With kind regards,

Luc Boerboom

Dr. Ir. Luc Boerboom
Assist. Prof Spatial Planning and Decision Support Systems and Infrastructures
Department of Urban and Regional Planning and Geo-information Management
Faculty of Geo-Information Science and Earth Observation (ITC), http://www.itc.nl/
University of Twente, http://www.utwente.nl/

E: [hidden email]<[hidden email]>
T: +31 (0)53 487 42 47 or +31 (0)53 487 44 44
Postal address
PO Box 217
7500 AE  Enschede
The Netherlands



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Re: Open open source, reduce registration fees.

Paul Ramsey
Regular reminder:
No doubt a $100 drop on registration would be determinative for a few, but it will not do much to change the equation for even a backpacking overseas traveller, who will pay (from Vancouver) $1000 to get there and $600+ in accommodation and meals, depending on how long they stay (doing workshops? doing code sprint?)
Using second-city sites (Victoria instead of Vancouver, Lausanne instead of Geneva) can shave registration dollars at the margins, but they'll get eaten up instead in travel costs. 
Local regional conferences (Foss4g.nl) should probably aim to go low and hyper-accessible, since they draw from a population that can economize on all aspects of the conference experience (stay at home, get up at 4am and walk to the venue from Haarlem, bring a bag lunch). Foss4g international is... international, there's going to be a minimum spend to get there and do it, no matter how few coffees are served, how spare the venue, or how much volunteers are used and abused.
P.

On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 7:54 AM, Steven Feldman <[hidden email]> wrote:
Reposting this from the board list as it may interest the CC.

The current target in RfP is $650 including social activities but excluding workshops. The costs of travel and accommodation have equalled or, for out of region delegates, exceed the registration costs.

To my knowledge no proposal has been received for the last 5 years that was able to support 800+ delegates at ca $500

2019 will be a ‘European’ year, I am sure that the CC would welcome a $500 proposal from the Netherlands community

______
Steven

Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 09:38:47 +0000
From: <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Board] Open open source, reduce registration fees.
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Dear board,

Where is the cap on registration fees for FOSS4G? You have closed open source to me with these steep registration fees. You have to change this. A few years ago I could hardly convince my departmental management to pay for registration. Now it is impossible! Please open up the conference again. Open open source! Those who cannot organize a conference below $500 should not be allowed to organize. Scale down. No fancy stuff. Back to the basics! Back to the core!

With kind regards,

Luc Boerboom

Dr. Ir. Luc Boerboom
Assist. Prof Spatial Planning and Decision Support Systems and Infrastructures
Department of Urban and Regional Planning and Geo-information Management
Faculty of Geo-Information Science and Earth Observation (ITC), http://www.itc.nl/
University of Twente, http://www.utwente.nl/

E: [hidden email]<[hidden email]>
T: +31 (0)53 487 42 47 or +31 (0)53 487 44 44
Postal address
PO Box 217
7500 AE  Enschede
The Netherlands



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Re: Open open source, reduce registration fees.

Darrell Fuhriman
100% agree. We played around with the numbers and determined that the amount that we could adjust the registration cost without putting at risk of losing money was dwarfed by the travel costs for all but local attendees.

It was also part of the reason we felt the travel grants were so important.

Darrell



> On Feb 6, 2017, at 09:15, Paul Ramsey <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Regular reminder:
> No doubt a $100 drop on registration would be determinative for a few, but it will not do much to change the equation for even a backpacking overseas traveller, who will pay (from Vancouver) $1000 to get there and $600+ in accommodation and meals, depending on how long they stay (doing workshops? doing code sprint?)
> Using second-city sites (Victoria instead of Vancouver, Lausanne instead of Geneva) can shave registration dollars at the margins, but they'll get eaten up instead in travel costs.
> Local regional conferences (Foss4g.nl) should probably aim to go low and hyper-accessible, since they draw from a population that can economize on all aspects of the conference experience (stay at home, get up at 4am and walk to the venue from Haarlem, bring a bag lunch). Foss4g international is... international, there's going to be a minimum spend to get there and do it, no matter how few coffees are served, how spare the venue, or how much volunteers are used and abused.
> P.
>

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Re: Open open source, reduce registration fees.

Eli Adam
In reply to this post by stevenfeldman
On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 7:54 AM, Steven Feldman <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Reposting this from the board list as it may interest the CC.
>
> The current target in RfP is $650 including social activities but excluding
> workshops. The costs of travel and accommodation have equalled or, for out
> of region delegates, exceed the registration costs.
>
> To my knowledge no proposal has been received for the last 5 years that was
> able to support 800+ delegates at ca $500
>
> 2019 will be a ‘European’ year, I am sure that the CC would welcome a $500
> proposal from the Netherlands community
>

That would be great!  From a more selfish perspective, even if it is
over $500 it would make it less expensive for those local people.


> ______
> Steven
>
> Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 09:38:47 +0000
> From: <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Board] Open open source, reduce registration fees.
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Dear board,
>
> Where is the cap on registration fees for FOSS4G? You have closed open
> source to me with these steep registration fees. You have to change this. A
> few years ago I could hardly convince my departmental management to pay for
> registration. Now it is impossible! Please open up the conference again.
> Open open source! Those who cannot organize a conference below $500 should
> not be allowed to organize. Scale down. No fancy stuff. Back to the basics!
> Back to the core!


I think that this also highlights the different roles of different
events.  In Portland, we spent ten years organizing small local OSGeo
events that were in the price range of no cost (and food and other
things were provided) to $20 to $150 (as part of other conferences
which included more than just the OSGeo event that we added to the
main event).  These continue to occur after the 2014 international
FOSS4G as well.  Other local chapters do the same thing in other areas
as well.

This is part of the beauty of OSGeo and FOSS4G, there are continually
more events in more areas.  Many are small local events with very
little financial barriers.  There is also a route by which interested
people can organize an event in their area and make it the type of
event that they want to see.  In one year, someone could attend
hundreds of incredible OSGeo and FOSS4G events around the world at
very low prices (excluding travel and accommodation costs) and not go
to the international FOSS4G.  In some ways FOSS4G now comes to you
rather than the old model in which attendees came to FOSS4G.

LOCs always need volunteers who commit and successfully complete a
substantial amount of work over the organizing duration.  Those
volunteers typically get complimentary registration which opens
another avenue to FOSS4G.

Jody is pursuing increasing OSGeo sponsorship which if successful
would open many different ways to run FOSS4G.  Increasing OSGeo
Foundation support is a great way for the Board (or anyone) to
potentially change the structure of FOSS4G.

Darrell made an excellent point about why travel grants are so important.

Best regards, Eli


>
> With kind regards,
>
> Luc Boerboom
>
> Dr. Ir. Luc Boerboom
> Assist. Prof Spatial Planning and Decision Support Systems and
> Infrastructures
> Department of Urban and Regional Planning and Geo-information Management
> Faculty of Geo-Information Science and Earth Observation (ITC),
> http://www.itc.nl/
> University of Twente, http://www.utwente.nl/
>
> E: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
> T: +31 (0)53 487 42 47 or +31 (0)53 487 44 44
> Postal address
> PO Box 217
> 7500 AE  Enschede
> The Netherlands
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Conference_dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
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Re: Open open source, reduce registration fees.

Till Adams-3
In reply to this post by Paul Ramsey
+1 - Paul hits 100% my opinion.

Am 06.02.2017 um 18:15 schrieb Paul Ramsey:
Regular reminder:
No doubt a $100 drop on registration would be determinative for a few, but it will not do much to change the equation for even a backpacking overseas traveller, who will pay (from Vancouver) $1000 to get there and $600+ in accommodation and meals, depending on how long they stay (doing workshops? doing code sprint?)
Using second-city sites (Victoria instead of Vancouver, Lausanne instead of Geneva) can shave registration dollars at the margins, but they'll get eaten up instead in travel costs. 
Local regional conferences (Foss4g.nl) should probably aim to go low and hyper-accessible, since they draw from a population that can economize on all aspects of the conference experience (stay at home, get up at 4am and walk to the venue from Haarlem, bring a bag lunch). Foss4g international is... international, there's going to be a minimum spend to get there and do it, no matter how few coffees are served, how spare the venue, or how much volunteers are used and abused.
P.

On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 7:54 AM, Steven Feldman <[hidden email]> wrote:
Reposting this from the board list as it may interest the CC.

The current target in RfP is $650 including social activities but excluding workshops. The costs of travel and accommodation have equalled or, for out of region delegates, exceed the registration costs.

To my knowledge no proposal has been received for the last 5 years that was able to support 800+ delegates at ca $500

2019 will be a ‘European’ year, I am sure that the CC would welcome a $500 proposal from the Netherlands community

______
Steven

Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 09:38:47 +0000
From: <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Board] Open open source, reduce registration fees.
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Dear board,

Where is the cap on registration fees for FOSS4G? You have closed open source to me with these steep registration fees. You have to change this. A few years ago I could hardly convince my departmental management to pay for registration. Now it is impossible! Please open up the conference again. Open open source! Those who cannot organize a conference below $500 should not be allowed to organize. Scale down. No fancy stuff. Back to the basics! Back to the core!

With kind regards,

Luc Boerboom

Dr. Ir. Luc Boerboom
Assist. Prof Spatial Planning and Decision Support Systems and Infrastructures
Department of Urban and Regional Planning and Geo-information Management
Faculty of Geo-Information Science and Earth Observation (ITC), http://www.itc.nl/
University of Twente, http://www.utwente.nl/

E: [hidden email]<[hidden email]>
T: +31 (0)53 487 42 47 or +31 (0)53 487 44 44
Postal address
PO Box 217
7500 AE  Enschede
The Netherlands



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Re: Open open source, reduce registration fees.

Venkatesh Raghavan-2
My trip to FOSS4G-Bonn cost me 1500USD for air-tickets, 630USD
(early bird Including gala dinner) for registration and 250USD
(for 7 nights) for sharing a nice little house with Gerald and
Nick.

All this was paid through my project budget. For example, had the
early registration been 180USD cheaper (450USD @150USD/day), I
could have sent three of my students to make FOSS4G related presentation
at local conferences.

So I do not understand the logic that high registration
fee is only a "small" fraction of the cost involved for
participants. Also, lower registration fee may attract
more participation and we may end-up generating same
amount as surplus and also have more new faces attending
the event. We do not know if that happen since we have not
tried lowering the conference prices recently.

Best

Venka

On 2/7/2017 4:49 PM, Till Adams wrote:

> +1 - Paul hits 100% my opinion.
>
> Am 06.02.2017 um 18:15 schrieb Paul Ramsey:
>> Regular reminder:
>> No doubt a $100 drop on registration would be determinative for a few,
>> but it will not do much to change the equation for even a backpacking
>> overseas traveller, who will pay (from Vancouver) $1000 to get there
>> and $600+ in accommodation and meals, depending on how long they stay
>> (doing workshops? doing code sprint?)
>> Using second-city sites (Victoria instead of Vancouver, Lausanne
>> instead of Geneva) can shave registration dollars at the margins, but
>> they'll get eaten up instead in travel costs.
>> Local regional conferences (Foss4g.nl) should probably aim to go low
>> and hyper-accessible, since they draw from a population that can
>> economize on all aspects of the conference experience (stay at home,
>> get up at 4am and walk to the venue from Haarlem, bring a bag lunch).
>> Foss4g international is... international, there's going to be a
>> minimum spend to get there and do it, no matter how few coffees are
>> served, how spare the venue, or how much volunteers are used and abused.
>> P.
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 7:54 AM, Steven Feldman <[hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>>     Reposting this from the board list as it may interest the CC.
>>
>>     The current target in RfP is $650 including social activities but
>>     excluding workshops. The costs of travel and accommodation have
>>     equalled or, for out of region delegates, exceed the registration
>>     costs.
>>
>>     To my knowledge no proposal has been received for the last 5 years
>>     that was able to support 800+ delegates at ca $500
>>
>>     2019 will be a ‘European’ year, I am sure that the CC would
>>     welcome a $500 proposal from the Netherlands community
>>
>>     ______
>>     Steven
>>
>>     Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 09:38:47 +0000
>>     From: <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>>     To: <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>>     Subject: [Board] Open open source, reduce registration fees.
>>     Message-ID:
>>     <[hidden email]
>>     <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>>     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>>     Dear board,
>>
>>     Where is the cap on registration fees for FOSS4G? You have closed
>>     open source to me with these steep registration fees. You have to
>>     change this. A few years ago I could hardly convince my
>>     departmental management to pay for registration. Now it is
>>     impossible! Please open up the conference again. Open open source!
>>     Those who cannot organize a conference below $500 should not be
>>     allowed to organize. Scale down. No fancy stuff. Back to the
>>     basics! Back to the core!
>>
>>     With kind regards,
>>
>>     Luc Boerboom
>>
>>     Dr. Ir. Luc Boerboom
>>     Assist. Prof Spatial Planning and Decision Support Systems and
>>     Infrastructures
>>     Department of Urban and Regional Planning and Geo-information
>>     Management
>>     Faculty of Geo-Information Science and Earth Observation
>>     (ITC), http://www.itc.nl/
>>     University of Twente, http://www.utwente.nl/
>>
>>     E: [hidden email]
>>     <mailto:[hidden email]><mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>>     T: +31 (0)53 487 42 47 or +31 (0)53 487 44 44
>>     Postal address
>>     PO Box 217
>>     7500 AE  Enschede
>>     The Netherlands
>>
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     Conference_dev mailing list
>>     [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>     https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
>>     <https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Conference_dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
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Re: Open open source, reduce registration fees.

Ian Turton


On 9 February 2017 at 14:29, Venkatesh Raghavan <[hidden email]> wrote:
My trip to FOSS4G-Bonn cost me 1500USD for air-tickets, 630USD
(early bird Including gala dinner) for registration and 250USD
(for 7 nights) for sharing a nice little house with Gerald and
Nick.


Your airfare was 3 x the conference fee - that is where you could of saved (maybe AreoFlot via Moscow and Havana? or similarly quality airline) if you can find local conferences that can be attended for $60 per person then great but it's irrelevant to the cost of the global meeting.

Ian


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Re: Open open source, reduce registration fees.

Till Adams-3
Hi,

many thanks Ian, I share your opinion. As long as we have affordable regional/local events, we can (and should) have one big event per year. That does not mean, that costs should raise and raise, but if we keep the costs for the conference in the frame of 600-850 $, I really do not see any problems. (And please compare our fees to any other 3-day conferences ... ;-))

If I seperate the fees we had in Bonn, I can state that we spent about 2/3 of the money for
- conference venue (where is the place to host 800 - 1000 people?? - Of course, an official conference venue)
- food (in our case, the caterer was fixed with the venue)

We could have saved 7-9% of the fees by not making the boat trip and replace it with any party, where people even had to pay for their food. Go there, be happy and forget it, because you joined hundreds of these parties in your life. I think the most impressive event for the participants (and also for those, just looking from outside) at FOSS4G in Bonn was the Social Event on the boat.
Impressive atmosphere.
Impressive pictures.
Personally, I will never forget this event and I am quite sure, that most of those, who joined us, won't also.


Even if you are able to lower the fees under 550$ does not influence the decision of 99% of the people whether to attend or not.

Having an international event with this size definitely costs money and if we as a community (including science, individuals, developers, but also business) don't want to go back to Stone Age, we need at least one representative event. If we do not host such an event, others will do.
For sure.


Till





Am 09.02.2017 um 16:24 schrieb Ian Turton:


On 9 February 2017 at 14:29, Venkatesh Raghavan <[hidden email]> wrote:
My trip to FOSS4G-Bonn cost me 1500USD for air-tickets, 630USD
(early bird Including gala dinner) for registration and 250USD
(for 7 nights) for sharing a nice little house with Gerald and
Nick.


Your airfare was 3 x the conference fee - that is where you could of saved (maybe AreoFlot via Moscow and Havana? or similarly quality airline) if you can find local conferences that can be attended for $60 per person then great but it's irrelevant to the cost of the global meeting.

Ian



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Re: Open open source, reduce registration fees.

Venkatesh Raghavan-2
In reply to this post by Ian Turton
On 2/10/2017 12:24 AM, Ian Turton wrote:
> On 9 February 2017 at 14:29, Venkatesh Raghavan <[hidden email]>
> wrote:


> if you can find local conferences that can be attended for $60 per person then
> great but it's irrelevant to the cost of the global meeting.

As a participant of the global meeting, it is relevant to me (and many
others I know) as I think the present registration costs are too high.

Venka
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Re: Open open source, reduce registration fees.

David William Bitner-3
Size matters.

While common sense would seem to say that as the number of participants go up, the cost per participant should go down. This is not the case as getting above the 600 participant and especially near the 1000 participant mark drastically limits the choice of venues and usually includes things like required food minimums with venue specific catering.

This is why it is soooo important for us to both keep our flagship large event going (even if it may put some folks off with the cost) as well as to encourage smaller regional events where we can keep registration AND travel costs down and approachable to more people.

On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Venkatesh Raghavan <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 2/10/2017 12:24 AM, Ian Turton wrote:
On 9 February 2017 at 14:29, Venkatesh Raghavan <[hidden email]>
wrote:


if you can find local conferences that can be attended for $60 per person then
great but it's irrelevant to the cost of the global meeting.

As a participant of the global meeting, it is relevant to me (and many others I know) as I think the present registration costs are too high.

Venka

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Re: Open open source, reduce registration fees.

stevenfeldman
In reply to this post by Venkatesh Raghavan-2
Venka

You and others often suggest that a lower fee would attract more participation - that will mainly apply to people travelling from within the region as based on your own numbers for an out of region delegate a saving of $180 represents a 7.5% reduction (in region it is likely to be about 15%)

We go round and round on this subject of delegate fees - we can decide to set the limit for an early bird for 2019 in Europe at $500 and then determine 
1) whether any acceptable bids are forthcoming and 
2) subsequently whether the lower registration fee results in higher attendance from those who had been unable to attend at £650.

Personally I doubt that we will get bids for anything that we would recognise as a FOSS4G Global at $500 registration unless the organisers can get a massive boost in sponsorship in advance of submitting a bid (as Dar es Salaam did with the World Bank sponsorship). 

The scope for an LOC to offer travel bursaries is likely to be reduced if they are working with smaller budgets due to lower delegate rates.

The RfP for 2019 will start in September of this year, just after FOSS4G closes. I look forward to the discussion on pricing and ultimately the vote in the CC before we issue a revised RfP.
______
Steven


On 9 Feb 2017, at 14:29, Venkatesh Raghavan <[hidden email]> wrote:

My trip to FOSS4G-Bonn cost me 1500USD for air-tickets, 630USD
(early bird Including gala dinner) for registration and 250USD
(for 7 nights) for sharing a nice little house with Gerald and
Nick.

All this was paid through my project budget. For example, had the
early registration been 180USD cheaper (450USD @150USD/day), I
could have sent three of my students to make FOSS4G related presentation at local conferences.

So I do not understand the logic that high registration
fee is only a "small" fraction of the cost involved for
participants. Also, lower registration fee may attract
more participation and we may end-up generating same
amount as surplus and also have more new faces attending
the event. We do not know if that happen since we have not
tried lowering the conference prices recently.

Best

Venka

On 2/7/2017 4:49 PM, Till Adams wrote:
+1 - Paul hits 100% my opinion.

Am 06.02.2017 um 18:15 schrieb Paul Ramsey:
Regular reminder:
No doubt a $100 drop on registration would be determinative for a few,
but it will not do much to change the equation for even a backpacking
overseas traveller, who will pay (from Vancouver) $1000 to get there
and $600+ in accommodation and meals, depending on how long they stay
(doing workshops? doing code sprint?)
Using second-city sites (Victoria instead of Vancouver, Lausanne
instead of Geneva) can shave registration dollars at the margins, but
they'll get eaten up instead in travel costs.
Local regional conferences (Foss4g.nl) should probably aim to go low
and hyper-accessible, since they draw from a population that can
economize on all aspects of the conference experience (stay at home,
get up at 4am and walk to the venue from Haarlem, bring a bag lunch).
Foss4g international is... international, there's going to be a
minimum spend to get there and do it, no matter how few coffees are
served, how spare the venue, or how much volunteers are used and abused.
P.

On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 7:54 AM, Steven Feldman <[hidden email]
<[hidden email]>> wrote:

   Reposting this from the board list as it may interest the CC.

   The current target in RfP is $650 including social activities but
   excluding workshops. The costs of travel and accommodation have
   equalled or, for out of region delegates, exceed the registration
   costs.

   To my knowledge no proposal has been received for the last 5 years
   that was able to support 800+ delegates at ca $500

   2019 will be a ‘European’ year, I am sure that the CC would
   welcome a $500 proposal from the Netherlands community

   ______
   Steven

   Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 09:38:47 +0000
   From: <[hidden email] <[hidden email]>>
   To: <[hidden email] <[hidden email]>>
   Subject: [Board] Open open source, reduce registration fees.
   Message-ID:
   <[hidden email]
   <[hidden email]>>
   Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

   Dear board,

   Where is the cap on registration fees for FOSS4G? You have closed
   open source to me with these steep registration fees. You have to
   change this. A few years ago I could hardly convince my
   departmental management to pay for registration. Now it is
   impossible! Please open up the conference again. Open open source!
   Those who cannot organize a conference below $500 should not be
   allowed to organize. Scale down. No fancy stuff. Back to the
   basics! Back to the core!

   With kind regards,

   Luc Boerboom

   Dr. Ir. Luc Boerboom
   Assist. Prof Spatial Planning and Decision Support Systems and
   Infrastructures
   Department of Urban and Regional Planning and Geo-information
   Management
   Faculty of Geo-Information Science and Earth Observation
   (ITC), http://www.itc.nl/
   University of Twente, http://www.utwente.nl/

   E: [hidden email]
   <[hidden email]><[hidden email] <[hidden email]>>
   T: +31 (0)53 487 42 47 or +31 (0)53 487 44 44
   Postal address
   PO Box 217
   7500 AE  Enschede
   The Netherlands



   _______________________________________________
   Conference_dev mailing list
   [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
   https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
   <https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev>




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Re: Open open source, reduce registration fees.

Darrell Fuhriman
> Personally I doubt that we will get bids for anything that we would recognise as a FOSS4G Global at $500 registration unless the organisers can get a massive boost in sponsorship in advance of submitting a bid (as Dar es Salaam did with the World Bank sponsorship).
>

Agreed. To touch on this and David’s point, at the rate we charged in 2014, the conference basically broke even. The money we were able to return to OSGeo was almost exactly the sponsorship amount.

Darrell


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Re: Open open source, reduce registration fees.

b.j.kobben
In reply to this post by stevenfeldman
One option not mentioned yet is to cap the conference attendance to max 500 or so, then you can find conference facilities in universities (and possibly even also accommodation there), making it possible to have very "accessible" conference fees.

 I am not saying I particularly favour this option, and there are many questions (eg. on how to cap -- first come first served?) but it is a possible way to bring costs down...

--
Barend Köbben
 

On 09/02/17 17:48, "Conference_dev on behalf of Steven Feldman" <[hidden email] on behalf of [hidden email]> wrote:

   
   
   
    Venka
   
   
    You and others often suggest that a lower fee would attract more participation - that will mainly apply to people travelling from within the region as based on your own numbers for an out of region delegate a saving of $180 represents a 7.5% reduction
     (in region it is likely to be about 15%)
   
   
    We go round and round on this subject of delegate fees - we can decide to set the limit for an early bird for 2019 in Europe at $500 and then determine
    1) whether any acceptable bids are forthcoming and
    2) subsequently whether the lower registration fee results in higher attendance from those who had been unable to attend at £650.
   
   
    Personally I doubt that we will get bids for anything that we would recognise as a FOSS4G Global at $500 registration unless the organisers can get a massive boost in sponsorship in advance of submitting a bid (as Dar es Salaam did with the World
     Bank sponsorship).
   
   
    The scope for an LOC to offer travel bursaries is likely to be reduced if they are working with smaller budgets due to lower delegate rates.
   
   
    The RfP for 2019 will start in September of this year, just after FOSS4G closes. I look forward to the discussion on pricing and ultimately the vote in the CC before we issue a revised RfP.
    ______
    Steven
   
   
   
   
    On 9 Feb 2017, at 14:29, Venkatesh Raghavan <[hidden email]> wrote:
   
    My
     trip to FOSS4G-Bonn cost me 1500USD for air-tickets, 630USD
    (early
     bird Including gala dinner) for registration and 250USD
    (for
     7 nights) for sharing a nice little house with Gerald and
    Nick.
   
    All
     this was paid through my project budget. For example, had the
    early
     registration been 180USD cheaper (450USD @150USD/day), I
    could
     have sent three of my students to make FOSS4G related presentation at local conferences.
   
    So
     I do not understand the logic that high registration
    fee
     is only a "small" fraction of the cost involved for
    participants.
     Also, lower registration fee may attract
    more
     participation and we may end-up generating same
    amount
     as surplus and also have more new faces attending
    the
     event. We do not know if that happen since we have not
    tried
     lowering the conference prices recently.
   
    Best
   
    Venka
   
    On
     2/7/2017 4:49 PM, Till Adams wrote:
   
    +1 - Paul hits 100% my opinion.
   
    Am 06.02.2017 um 18:15 schrieb Paul Ramsey:
    Regular reminder:
    No doubt a $100 drop on registration would be determinative for a few,
    but it will not do much to change the equation for even a backpacking
    overseas traveller, who will pay (from Vancouver) $1000 to get there
    and $600+ in accommodation and meals, depending on how long they stay
    (doing workshops? doing code sprint?)
    Using second-city sites (Victoria instead of Vancouver, Lausanne
    instead of Geneva) can shave registration dollars at the margins, but
    they'll get eaten up instead in travel costs.
    Local regional conferences (Foss4g.nl <http://Foss4g.nl>) should probably aim to go low
    and hyper-accessible, since they draw from a population that can
    economize on all aspects of the conference experience (stay at home,
    get up at 4am and walk to the venue from Haarlem, bring a bag lunch).
    Foss4g international is... international, there's going to be a
    minimum spend to get there and do it, no matter how few coffees are
    served, how spare the venue, or how much volunteers are used and abused.
    P.
   
    On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 7:54 AM, Steven Feldman <[hidden email]
    <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
   
       Reposting this from the board list as it may interest the CC.
   
       The current target in RfP is $650 including social activities but
       excluding workshops. The costs of travel and accommodation have
       equalled or, for out of region delegates, exceed the registration
       costs.
   
       To my knowledge no proposal has been received for the last 5 years
       that was able to support 800+ delegates at ca $500
   
       2019 will be a ‘European’ year, I am sure that the CC would
       welcome a $500 proposal from the Netherlands community
   
       ______
       Steven
   
       Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 09:38:47 +0000
       From: <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
       To: <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
       Subject: [Board] Open open source, reduce registration fees.
       Message-ID:
       <[hidden email]
       <mailto:[hidden email]>>
       Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
   
       Dear board,
   
       Where is the cap on registration fees for FOSS4G? You have closed
       open source to me with these steep registration fees. You have to
       change this. A few years ago I could hardly convince my
       departmental management to pay for registration. Now it is
       impossible! Please open up the conference again. Open open source!
       Those who cannot organize a conference below $500 should not be
       allowed to organize. Scale down. No fancy stuff. Back to the
       basics! Back to the core!
   
       With kind regards,
   
       Luc Boerboom
   
       Dr. Ir. Luc Boerboom
       Assist. Prof Spatial Planning and Decision Support Systems and
       Infrastructures
       Department of Urban and Regional Planning and Geo-information
       Management
       Faculty of Geo-Information Science and Earth Observation
       (ITC), http://www.itc.nl/
       University of Twente, http://www.utwente.nl/
   
       E: [hidden email]
       <mailto:[hidden email]><mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
       T: +31 (0)53 487 42 47 or +31 (0)53 487 44 44
       Postal address
       PO Box 217
       7500 AE  Enschede
       The Netherlands
   
   
   
       _______________________________________________
       Conference_dev mailing list
       [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
       https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
       <https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev>
   
   
   
   
    _______________________________________________
    Conference_dev mailing list
    [hidden email]
    https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
   
   
   
   
   
   
    _______________________________________________
    Conference_dev mailing list
    [hidden email]
    https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
   
   
   
   
    _______________________________________________
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     mailing list
    [hidden email]
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Re: Open open source, reduce registration fees.

Paul Ramsey
Small, low-frills events held at academic venues may indeed be more financially accessible,  but they also don't tend to throw off $100K in profits to fund the operations of their parent organizations. There is a whole other set of variables being ignore in this reductive discussion of admission fees.

P.

On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 8:58 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
One option not mentioned yet is to cap the conference attendance to max 500 or so, then you can find conference facilities in universities (and possibly even also accommodation there), making it possible to have very "accessible" conference fees.

 I am not saying I particularly favour this option, and there are many questions (eg. on how to cap -- first come first served?) but it is a possible way to bring costs down...

--
Barend Köbben


On 09/02/17 17:48, "Conference_dev on behalf of Steven Feldman" <[hidden email] on behalf of [hidden email]> wrote:




    Venka


    You and others often suggest that a lower fee would attract more participation - that will mainly apply to people travelling from within the region as based on your own numbers for an out of region delegate a saving of $180 represents a 7.5% reduction
     (in region it is likely to be about 15%)


    We go round and round on this subject of delegate fees - we can decide to set the limit for an early bird for 2019 in Europe at $500 and then determine
    1) whether any acceptable bids are forthcoming and
    2) subsequently whether the lower registration fee results in higher attendance from those who had been unable to attend at £650.


    Personally I doubt that we will get bids for anything that we would recognise as a FOSS4G Global at $500 registration unless the organisers can get a massive boost in sponsorship in advance of submitting a bid (as Dar es Salaam did with the World
     Bank sponsorship).


    The scope for an LOC to offer travel bursaries is likely to be reduced if they are working with smaller budgets due to lower delegate rates.


    The RfP for 2019 will start in September of this year, just after FOSS4G closes. I look forward to the discussion on pricing and ultimately the vote in the CC before we issue a revised RfP.
    ______
    Steven




    On 9 Feb 2017, at 14:29, Venkatesh Raghavan <[hidden email]> wrote:

    My
     trip to FOSS4G-Bonn cost me 1500USD for air-tickets, 630USD
    (early
     bird Including gala dinner) for registration and 250USD
    (for
     7 nights) for sharing a nice little house with Gerald and
    Nick.

    All
     this was paid through my project budget. For example, had the
    early
     registration been 180USD cheaper (450USD @150USD/day), I
    could
     have sent three of my students to make FOSS4G related presentation at local conferences.

    So
     I do not understand the logic that high registration
    fee
     is only a "small" fraction of the cost involved for
    participants.
     Also, lower registration fee may attract
    more
     participation and we may end-up generating same
    amount
     as surplus and also have more new faces attending
    the
     event. We do not know if that happen since we have not
    tried
     lowering the conference prices recently.

    Best

    Venka

    On
     2/7/2017 4:49 PM, Till Adams wrote:

    +1 - Paul hits 100% my opinion.

    Am 06.02.2017 um 18:15 schrieb Paul Ramsey:
    Regular reminder:
    No doubt a $100 drop on registration would be determinative for a few,
    but it will not do much to change the equation for even a backpacking
    overseas traveller, who will pay (from Vancouver) $1000 to get there
    and $600+ in accommodation and meals, depending on how long they stay
    (doing workshops? doing code sprint?)
    Using second-city sites (Victoria instead of Vancouver, Lausanne
    instead of Geneva) can shave registration dollars at the margins, but
    they'll get eaten up instead in travel costs.
    Local regional conferences (Foss4g.nl <http://Foss4g.nl>) should probably aim to go low
    and hyper-accessible, since they draw from a population that can
    economize on all aspects of the conference experience (stay at home,
    get up at 4am and walk to the venue from Haarlem, bring a bag lunch).
    Foss4g international is... international, there's going to be a
    minimum spend to get there and do it, no matter how few coffees are
    served, how spare the venue, or how much volunteers are used and abused.
    P.

    On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 7:54 AM, Steven Feldman <[hidden email]
    <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:

       Reposting this from the board list as it may interest the CC.

       The current target in RfP is $650 including social activities but
       excluding workshops. The costs of travel and accommodation have
       equalled or, for out of region delegates, exceed the registration
       costs.

       To my knowledge no proposal has been received for the last 5 years
       that was able to support 800+ delegates at ca $500

       2019 will be a ‘European’ year, I am sure that the CC would
       welcome a $500 proposal from the Netherlands community

       ______
       Steven

       Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 09:38:47 +0000
       From: <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
       To: <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
       Subject: [Board] Open open source, reduce registration fees.
       Message-ID:
       <[hidden email]
       <mailto:[hidden email]>>
       Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

       Dear board,

       Where is the cap on registration fees for FOSS4G? You have closed
       open source to me with these steep registration fees. You have to
       change this. A few years ago I could hardly convince my
       departmental management to pay for registration. Now it is
       impossible! Please open up the conference again. Open open source!
       Those who cannot organize a conference below $500 should not be
       allowed to organize. Scale down. No fancy stuff. Back to the
       basics! Back to the core!

       With kind regards,

       Luc Boerboom

       Dr. Ir. Luc Boerboom
       Assist. Prof Spatial Planning and Decision Support Systems and
       Infrastructures
       Department of Urban and Regional Planning and Geo-information
       Management
       Faculty of Geo-Information Science and Earth Observation
       (ITC), http://www.itc.nl/
       University of Twente, http://www.utwente.nl/

       E: [hidden email]
       <mailto:[hidden email]><mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
       T: <a href="tel:%2B31%20%280%2953%20487%2042%2047" value="+31534874247">+31 (0)53 487 42 47 or <a href="tel:%2B31%20%280%2953%20487%2044%2044" value="+31534874444">+31 (0)53 487 44 44
       Postal address
       PO Box 217
       7500 AE  Enschede
       The Netherlands



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       [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
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Is FOSS4G worth it?

Cameron Shorter

Here is something you probably wouldn't expect a past FOSS4G chair to say:

"Financially speaking, FOSS4G is not worth it."

Yes, that is what I believe.

For most people, the return-on-investment of attending an international conference such as FOSS4G doesn't justify attending.

There extensive tourism budgets promoting conferences. These add to our own secret desires to travel, meet and network. And it leads to an over-inflated value the public places on international conferences.

The majority of participants, (or their companies) are being duped.

Almost all information presented at conferences is readily accessible online. In fact, most FOSS4G events are recorded and the rest of the world can watch the recordings from home. A conference is a very expensive medium for one-to-many presentation styles.

For the presenters, yes it is prestigious to present at an international conference. But you can also present at a local event, get recorded, put your video on you-tube. If it is good, you will find people watch it. Paul Ramsey's presentation "The Unknowns: A Managers Guide to Open Source" [1] has been viewed close to 4000 times, which is more than any FOSS4G event he presented at.

* There is a stronger business case for workshops where there is a chance for one-on-one attention from a teacher. However, there are cost effective alternatives. It is more efficient to ship one trainer to a classroom of attendees rather than visa-versa. This can be made more efficient by grouping workshops into local  events. And for the more technically savvy, there are Massive Online Open Courses (MOOCs), presented over the web.

* Face-to-face meetings, small birds-of-a-feather meetings and code-sprints is what I think is most valuable at a conference. It is hard to replicate the effectiveness of such meetings on email, IRC or skype calls. But these face-to-face meetings are not essential. I haven't met most of you on this conference committee list, and yet I feel like I have a personal connection with each of you, through our email conversations. I've been one of the coordinators of the OSGeo-Live project since it started, and haven't met most of the core developers in person. In fact, I haven't even heard the voice of most. And yet we have a successful and sustainable project.

* On a different note: The environmental impact of an international flight is significant. An international return trip creates 2 to 3 tonnes of CO2 per traveler. (An average European creates ~ 10 tonnes of CO2 per year) [2]. As a geographic community we should be more aware than most of the impact of climate change, and as a community we should be considering ways to reduce international travel.

* But FOSS4G is an awesome, personally rewarding experience, where you get to meet many inspiring people in an exotic location, without being distracted by work or family. If OSGeo is your passion, you will personally love FOSS4G. If you measure it on a personal level, as you would measure the value of a holiday, then you can build a compelling reason to travel around the word to attend.

Lets consider these points when assessing the cost, value and price of a conference.

Cheers, Cameron

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUgiG6eaYtI
[2] http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/27/sunday-review/the-biggest-carbon-sin-air-travel.html


On 10/2/17 4:25 am, Paul Ramsey wrote:
Small, low-frills events held at academic venues may indeed be more financially accessible,  but they also don't tend to throw off $100K in profits to fund the operations of their parent organizations. There is a whole other set of variables being ignore in this reductive discussion of admission fees.

P.

On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 8:58 AM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
One option not mentioned yet is to cap the conference attendance to max 500 or so, then you can find conference facilities in universities (and possibly even also accommodation there), making it possible to have very "accessible" conference fees.

 I am not saying I particularly favour this option, and there are many questions (eg. on how to cap -- first come first served?) but it is a possible way to bring costs down...

--
Barend Köbben


On 09/02/17 17:48, "Conference_dev on behalf of Steven Feldman" <[hidden email] on behalf of [hidden email]> wrote:




    Venka


    You and others often suggest that a lower fee would attract more participation - that will mainly apply to people travelling from within the region as based on your own numbers for an out of region delegate a saving of $180 represents a 7.5% reduction
     (in region it is likely to be about 15%)


    We go round and round on this subject of delegate fees - we can decide to set the limit for an early bird for 2019 in Europe at $500 and then determine
    1) whether any acceptable bids are forthcoming and
    2) subsequently whether the lower registration fee results in higher attendance from those who had been unable to attend at £650.


    Personally I doubt that we will get bids for anything that we would recognise as a FOSS4G Global at $500 registration unless the organisers can get a massive boost in sponsorship in advance of submitting a bid (as Dar es Salaam did with the World
     Bank sponsorship).


    The scope for an LOC to offer travel bursaries is likely to be reduced if they are working with smaller budgets due to lower delegate rates.


    The RfP for 2019 will start in September of this year, just after FOSS4G closes. I look forward to the discussion on pricing and ultimately the vote in the CC before we issue a revised RfP.
    ______
    Steven




    On 9 Feb 2017, at 14:29, Venkatesh Raghavan <[hidden email]> wrote:

    My
     trip to FOSS4G-Bonn cost me 1500USD for air-tickets, 630USD
    (early
     bird Including gala dinner) for registration and 250USD
    (for
     7 nights) for sharing a nice little house with Gerald and
    Nick.

    All
     this was paid through my project budget. For example, had the
    early
     registration been 180USD cheaper (450USD @150USD/day), I
    could
     have sent three of my students to make FOSS4G related presentation at local conferences.

    So
     I do not understand the logic that high registration
    fee
     is only a "small" fraction of the cost involved for
    participants.
     Also, lower registration fee may attract
    more
     participation and we may end-up generating same
    amount
     as surplus and also have more new faces attending
    the
     event. We do not know if that happen since we have not
    tried
     lowering the conference prices recently.

    Best

    Venka

    On
     2/7/2017 4:49 PM, Till Adams wrote:

    +1 - Paul hits 100% my opinion.

    Am 06.02.2017 um 18:15 schrieb Paul Ramsey:
    Regular reminder:
    No doubt a $100 drop on registration would be determinative for a few,
    but it will not do much to change the equation for even a backpacking
    overseas traveller, who will pay (from Vancouver) $1000 to get there
    and $600+ in accommodation and meals, depending on how long they stay
    (doing workshops? doing code sprint?)
    Using second-city sites (Victoria instead of Vancouver, Lausanne
    instead of Geneva) can shave registration dollars at the margins, but
    they'll get eaten up instead in travel costs.
    Local regional conferences (Foss4g.nl <http://Foss4g.nl>) should probably aim to go low
    and hyper-accessible, since they draw from a population that can
    economize on all aspects of the conference experience (stay at home,
    get up at 4am and walk to the venue from Haarlem, bring a bag lunch).
    Foss4g international is... international, there's going to be a
    minimum spend to get there and do it, no matter how few coffees are
    served, how spare the venue, or how much volunteers are used and abused.
    P.

    On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 7:54 AM, Steven Feldman <[hidden email]
    <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:

       Reposting this from the board list as it may interest the CC.

       The current target in RfP is $650 including social activities but
       excluding workshops. The costs of travel and accommodation have
       equalled or, for out of region delegates, exceed the registration
       costs.

       To my knowledge no proposal has been received for the last 5 years
       that was able to support 800+ delegates at ca $500

       2019 will be a ‘European’ year, I am sure that the CC would
       welcome a $500 proposal from the Netherlands community

       ______
       Steven

       Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 09:38:47 +0000
       From: <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
       To: <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
       Subject: [Board] Open open source, reduce registration fees.
       Message-ID:
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       Dear board,

       Where is the cap on registration fees for FOSS4G? You have closed
       open source to me with these steep registration fees. You have to
       change this. A few years ago I could hardly convince my
       departmental management to pay for registration. Now it is
       impossible! Please open up the conference again. Open open source!
       Those who cannot organize a conference below $500 should not be
       allowed to organize. Scale down. No fancy stuff. Back to the
       basics! Back to the core!

       With kind regards,

       Luc Boerboom

       Dr. Ir. Luc Boerboom
       Assist. Prof Spatial Planning and Decision Support Systems and
       Infrastructures
       Department of Urban and Regional Planning and Geo-information
       Management
       Faculty of Geo-Information Science and Earth Observation
       (ITC), http://www.itc.nl/
       University of Twente, http://www.utwente.nl/

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Re: Open open source, reduce registration fees.

dirkf
In reply to this post by Till Adams-3
Till,

> I think the most impressive event for the
> participants (and also for those, just looking from outside) at FOSS4G
> in Bonn was the Social Event on the boat.
> Impressive atmosphere.
> Impressive pictures.
> Personally, I will never forget this event and I am quite sure, that
> most of those, who joined us, won't also.

I fully agree!

On 09-02-17 17:01, Till Adams wrote:

> Hi,
>
> many thanks Ian, I share your opinion. As long as we have affordable
> regional/local events, we can (and should) have one big event per year.
> That does not mean, that costs should raise and raise, but if we keep
> the costs for the conference in the frame of 600-850 $, I really do not
> see any problems. (And please compare our fees to any other 3-day
> conferences ... ;-))
>
> If I seperate the fees we had in Bonn, I can state that we spent about
> 2/3 of the money for
> - conference venue (where is the place to host 800 - 1000 people?? - Of
> course, an official conference venue)
> - food (in our case, the caterer was fixed with the venue)
>
> We could have saved 7-9% of the fees by not making the boat trip and
> replace it with any party, where people even had to pay for their food.
> Go there, be happy and forget it, because you joined hundreds of these
> parties in your life. I think the most impressive event for the
> participants (and also for those, just looking from outside) at FOSS4G
> in Bonn was the Social Event on the boat.
> Impressive atmosphere.
> Impressive pictures.
> Personally, I will never forget this event and I am quite sure, that
> most of those, who joined us, won't also.
>
>
> Even if you are able to lower the fees under 550$ does not influence the
> decision of 99% of the people whether to attend or not.
>
> Having an international event with this size definitely costs money and
> if we as a community (including science, individuals, developers, but
> also business) don't want to go back to Stone Age, we need at least one
> representative event. If we do not host such an event, others will do.
> For sure.
>
>
> Till
>
>
>
>
>
> Am 09.02.2017 um 16:24 schrieb Ian Turton:
>>
>>
>> On 9 February 2017 at 14:29, Venkatesh Raghavan
>> <<mailto:[hidden email]>[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>     My trip to FOSS4G-Bonn cost me 1500USD for air-tickets, 630USD
>>     (early bird Including gala dinner) for registration and 250USD
>>     (for 7 nights) for sharing a nice little house with Gerald and
>>     Nick.
>>
>>
>> Your airfare was 3 x the conference fee - that is where you could of
>> saved (maybe AreoFlot via Moscow and Havana? or similarly quality
>> airline) if you can find local conferences that can be attended for
>> $60 per person then great but it's irrelevant to the cost of the
>> global meeting.
>>
>> Ian
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Conference_dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Conference_dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
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--
Yours sincerely,


ir. Dirk Frigne
CEO @geosparc

Geosparc n.v.
Brugsesteenweg 587
B-9030 Ghent
Tel: +32 9 236 60 18
GSM: +32 495 508 799

http://www.geomajas.org
http://www.geosparc.com

@DFrigne
be.linkedin.com/in/frigne

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Re: Open open source, reduce registration fees.

Michael Terner
This is an extremely important exchange and one that Guido and I have been following closely and with great concern. We have also noticed that there has been a unanimous voice of support from people who have organized these conferences in the past (i.e., former chairs like Darrell/Eli, Til, Steven, Paul) that these costs are reasonable, and somewhat unavoidable when trying to house 800-1,000 people. Indeed, it is somewhat remarkable that the costs Boston is offering in 2017 are basically the same for early bird pricing as Portland in 2014. As Venka relays, of course cost is important; and all LOC's struggle mightily to provide a great event at the lowest possible cost. We hugely regret that cost will keep some people from attending, but as is pointed out, there are regional events to help fill that void. A couple of other key points are raised in this discussion:
  1. As David points out, this should be a showcase event for OSGeo. Not only does it deliver financial benefits, but also it helps put OSGeo and the FOSS4G ecosystem further on the map of people entrenched in only the commercial geo ecosystem. As we wrote in our proposal, we are looking for a loud and exciting event to draw in newcomers who are curious about FOSS4G and are ready for alternatives. If the Esri Conference can get 15,000 people, why shouldn't FOSS4G be the number #2 event and in time get 2,000 people?
  2. As Steven points out, this is really a discussion for the next competition. Our cost is not a mystery, we submitted the $650 early bird in our proposal to OSGeo almost 1.5 years ago; and the other two North American proposals had the same prices. If someone can do a show of this magnitude at a far lower price, and the committee/Board likes that proposal best, more power to them.
  3. We are sticking to our vision that FOSS4G Boston 2017 will show off the best parts of this ecosystem and the palpable excitement I felt in Bonn and Portland and the increasing viability and maturity of these tools. We want people to walk into the conference and go WOW! Geo open source is here to stay, and I want to get involved. Part of that happens when people are involved in memorable events, and I too will never forget the Bonn river boat party.
  4. We have been hugely encouraged in our recruitment of sponsors for Boston. We will keep our foot on the accelerator for that, and over time continued, significant sponsorship will help moderate/contain costs. And, help OSGeo maintain funding to support travel grants and regional events that help increase accessibility. Sponsors appreciate the showcase event and a larger and professionally managed conference.
I wish I had been at some of the smaller and more intimate early events. I experienced Esri shows in the late 1980's where there were <1,000 people (and my first had <500). And of course there's some nostalgia for the simpler, lower cost, early days. But just as Esri grew up, the FOSS4G ecosystem is maturing and evolving and changing and enlarging and from my perspective that is a good thing. We are working hard to support that maturation and exposing this community to more people in Boston while also, and absolutely respecting and supporting the roots and core of OSGeo's mission and the historic content of this conference.

Please help support our conference; please help us continue the long line of amazing FOSS4G events.

Most sincerely, MT

On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 9:52 AM, Dirk Frigne <[hidden email]> wrote:
Till,

> I think the most impressive event for the
> participants (and also for those, just looking from outside) at FOSS4G
> in Bonn was the Social Event on the boat.
> Impressive atmosphere.
> Impressive pictures.
> Personally, I will never forget this event and I am quite sure, that
> most of those, who joined us, won't also.

I fully agree!

On 09-02-17 17:01, Till Adams wrote:
> Hi,
>
> many thanks Ian, I share your opinion. As long as we have affordable
> regional/local events, we can (and should) have one big event per year.
> That does not mean, that costs should raise and raise, but if we keep
> the costs for the conference in the frame of 600-850 $, I really do not
> see any problems. (And please compare our fees to any other 3-day
> conferences ... ;-))
>
> If I seperate the fees we had in Bonn, I can state that we spent about
> 2/3 of the money for
> - conference venue (where is the place to host 800 - 1000 people?? - Of
> course, an official conference venue)
> - food (in our case, the caterer was fixed with the venue)
>
> We could have saved 7-9% of the fees by not making the boat trip and
> replace it with any party, where people even had to pay for their food.
> Go there, be happy and forget it, because you joined hundreds of these
> parties in your life. I think the most impressive event for the
> participants (and also for those, just looking from outside) at FOSS4G
> in Bonn was the Social Event on the boat.
> Impressive atmosphere.
> Impressive pictures.
> Personally, I will never forget this event and I am quite sure, that
> most of those, who joined us, won't also.
>
>
> Even if you are able to lower the fees under 550$ does not influence the
> decision of 99% of the people whether to attend or not.
>
> Having an international event with this size definitely costs money and
> if we as a community (including science, individuals, developers, but
> also business) don't want to go back to Stone Age, we need at least one
> representative event. If we do not host such an event, others will do.
> For sure.
>
>
> Till
>
>
>
>
>
> Am 09.02.2017 um 16:24 schrieb Ian Turton:
>>
>>
>> On 9 February 2017 at 14:29, Venkatesh Raghavan
>> <<mailto:[hidden email]>[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>     My trip to FOSS4G-Bonn cost me 1500USD for air-tickets, 630USD
>>     (early bird Including gala dinner) for registration and 250USD
>>     (for 7 nights) for sharing a nice little house with Gerald and
>>     Nick.
>>
>>
>> Your airfare was 3 x the conference fee - that is where you could of
>> saved (maybe AreoFlot via Moscow and Havana? or similarly quality
>> airline) if you can find local conferences that can be attended for
>> $60 per person then great but it's irrelevant to the cost of the
>> global meeting.
>>
>> Ian
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Conference_dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Conference_dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
>

--
Yours sincerely,


ir. Dirk Frigne
CEO @geosparc

Geosparc n.v.
Brugsesteenweg 587
B-9030 Ghent
Tel: <a href="tel:%2B32%209%20236%2060%2018" value="+3292366018">+32 9 236 60 18
GSM: <a href="tel:%2B32%20495%20508%20799" value="+32495508799">+32 495 508 799

http://www.geomajas.org
http://www.geosparc.com

@DFrigne
be.linkedin.com/in/frigne

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--
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Applied Geographics, Inc.
24 School Street, Suite 500
Boston, MA 02108

www.AppGeo.com
 

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