On Stripe and PayPal

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On Stripe and PayPal

Andreas Neumann-3
Dear PSC,

Now that Stripe is in service already for a couple of weeks I would like to let you know about the difference between PayPal and Stripe.

First - again a big thanks to all who helped integrating Stripe (or recommending it in the first place) - thanks Richard, Tim, Jürgen and Strk (who also recommended using Stripe). Also, thanks for implementing the receipts by e-mail and integration with our donors list, Richard!

With respect to payment fees, Stripe is way better. They keep on average <= 3.5 % of the payments, all the way until it ends up in our bank account. With PayPal, this can be up to 10% of payment fees. Also, for some reasons, PayPal users sometimes prefer to change currency from Euro to their own currency, which would be yet another unnecessary currency conversion with fees involved.

I still have to get used to the Stripe portal, but altogether I am pretty happy with Stripe. It is also easy to manually create an invoice for sponsorships, should a sponsor from outside Europe prefer to pay with credit card.

The only slight drawback with the current stripe integration is that we don't have a free form to enter any amount, the user wants - or maybe better - any amount larger than 10 €. While this is, at one hand, a good thing (minimum amount is at 10 € and people are more unlikely to use such an amount for illegal testing of stolen credit cards), some people might want to donate a larger (or in between amount).

The other very minor usability issue I can see with the Stripe payment form inside https://www.qgis.org/en/site/getinvolved/donations.html#qgis-donations is that there is a frame (with rounded corners) around "Name", "E-Mail" and the amount combobox,but no frame around the credit card fields (Card number, expiry date and CVC). I think it would be nicer if those three credit card widgets would also have the same frame like the other fields.

What do people think about removing PayPal from our donations options (not closing the account, but just remove it from the options)? Would people miss it, or would we miss out on donations? We can also postpone this decision for a couple months, but more incentive for people to use Stripe instead of PayPal would be nice.

We already have this text: "You can use Paypal to donate using your own credit card (but we prefer to use Stripe for that). The payment is processed by PayPal but you don't need to have a PayPal account or sign-up for one if you are paying by credit card.", but still quite a few donors use PayPal, probably because it is more well-known than Stripe or more convenient for them to use.

Thoughts about Stripe/PayPal?

Thanks and greetings,
Andreas

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Andreas Neumann
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Re: On Stripe and PayPal

pcav
Il 21/06/2018 10:49, Andreas Neumann ha scritto:

> Thoughts about Stripe/PayPal?

Thanks Andreas for the report, and lots of thanks to Richard for the
integration.
I'd be in favour of removing Paypal, unless there are very strong
reasons to keep it.
All the best.
--
Paolo Cavallini - www.faunalia.eu
QGIS & PostGIS courses: http://www.faunalia.eu/training.html
https://www.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=IT&q=qgis,arcgis
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Re: On Stripe and PayPal

Yves Jacolin


Le 21/06/2018 à 10:53, Paolo Cavallini a écrit :
> I'd be in favour of removing Paypal, unless there are very strong
> reasons to keep it.
+1 also from me!

Y.

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Re: On Stripe and PayPal

Régis Haubourg
In reply to this post by pcav
Hi,
I just donated my 10 boxes to test the Stripe form.

Very nice and short, less than 1 minute.

I agree having the possibility to donate more would be nice . Why not use a link to another page with several embeded forms for with 20 - 50 - 100 euros available, and let the default 10 euros as is.

+1 for removing Paypal link

Very good job guys!

Régis



2018-06-21 10:53 GMT+02:00 Paolo Cavallini <[hidden email]>:
Il 21/06/2018 10:49, Andreas Neumann ha scritto:

> Thoughts about Stripe/PayPal?

Thanks Andreas for the report, and lots of thanks to Richard for the
integration.
I'd be in favour of removing Paypal, unless there are very strong
reasons to keep it.
All the best.
--
Paolo Cavallini - www.faunalia.eu
QGIS & PostGIS courses: http://www.faunalia.eu/training.html
https://www.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=IT&q=qgis,arcgis
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Re: On Stripe and PayPal

ginetto
+0 for removing Paypal link. I would leave it making it clear that it costs MORE. In general I'm in favoir to remove paypal but only if we trace the affect on the amount of donations => observe the trend verifying IF changing the platform can reduce income more that the cost we have using paypal.
I'm in general in favor to remove paypal as closed platform, but also I'm in favor to avoid unconfortable zones (less known platforms with less marketing) to user in the moment to do a donation.

thank to setup this alternative

Luigi Pirelli

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On Thu, 21 Jun 2018 at 11:08, Régis Haubourg <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,
I just donated my 10 boxes to test the Stripe form.

Very nice and short, less than 1 minute.

I agree having the possibility to donate more would be nice . Why not use a link to another page with several embeded forms for with 20 - 50 - 100 euros available, and let the default 10 euros as is.

+1 for removing Paypal link

Very good job guys!

Régis



2018-06-21 10:53 GMT+02:00 Paolo Cavallini <[hidden email]>:
Il 21/06/2018 10:49, Andreas Neumann ha scritto:

> Thoughts about Stripe/PayPal?

Thanks Andreas for the report, and lots of thanks to Richard for the
integration.
I'd be in favour of removing Paypal, unless there are very strong
reasons to keep it.
All the best.
--
Paolo Cavallini - www.faunalia.eu
QGIS & PostGIS courses: http://www.faunalia.eu/training.html
https://www.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=IT&q=qgis,arcgis
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Re: On Stripe and PayPal

Marco Bernasocchi-2
In reply to this post by Andreas Neumann-3


On 21.06.2018 10:49, Andreas Neumann wrote:
>
> We already have this text: "You can use Paypal to donate using your
> own credit card (but we prefer to use Stripe for that). The payment is
> processed by PayPal but you don't need to have a PayPal account or
> sign-up for one if you are paying by credit card.", but still quite a
> few donors use PayPal, probably because it is more well-known than
> Stripe or more convenient for them to use.
>
> Thoughts about Stripe/PayPal?
I think we should leave both to allow as many ways as possible to
donate, giving money needs to be something comfortable.

cheers
Marco

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QGIS.org Co-chair
http://berna.io

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Re: On Stripe and PayPal

Andreas Neumann-4

Hi all,

Thanks for the replies.

Perhaps, we should wait until the end of the year to see how things develop and leave PayPal until then.

Note that we would definitely keep PayPal alive (but not advertise it), should we run into troubles with Stripe (similar to the troubles we had with PayPal). Hopefully, at all times we can have at least one of the two options operational. I read from other companies who said, it is always good to have choice and not be dependent at one single credit card payment system.

BTW: Tim told me that the FOSS4G organizers also had their PayPal account limited or blocked for a while - very inconvenient if you are organizing such an event and are dependent on the income.

Greetings,

Andreas

On 2018-06-21 11:42, Marco Bernasocchi wrote:



On 21.06.2018 10:49, Andreas Neumann wrote:

We already have this text: "You can use Paypal to donate using your
own credit card (but we prefer to use Stripe for that). The payment is
processed by PayPal but you don't need to have a PayPal account or
sign-up for one if you are paying by credit card.", but still quite a
few donors use PayPal, probably because it is more well-known than
Stripe or more convenient for them to use.

Thoughts about Stripe/PayPal?
I think we should leave both to allow as many ways as possible to
donate, giving money needs to be something comfortable.

cheers
Marco



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Re: On Stripe and PayPal

Richard Duivenvoorde
In reply to this post by Andreas Neumann-3
Hi Andreas,

Inline some comments

On 21-06-18 10:49, Andreas Neumann wrote:

... snip
> First - again a big thanks to all who helped integrating Stripe (or
> recommending it in the first place) - thanks Richard, Tim, Jürgen and
> Strk (who also recommended using Stripe). Also, thanks for implementing
> the receipts by e-mail and integration with our donors list, Richard!

Well... automation.. to be done :-)
I'll try to reuse Juergen's script.

... snip> The only slight drawback with the current stripe integration
is that we
> don't have a free form to enter any amount, the user wants - or maybe
> better - any amount larger than 10 €. While this is, at one hand, a good
> thing (minimum amount is at 10 € and people are more unlikely to use
> such an amount for illegal testing of stolen credit cards), some people
> might want to donate a larger (or in between amount).

Well, it is a dropdown, so I can add as many currencies and values as
you want, see:

https://github.com/qgis/QGIS-Stripe/blob/master/striped/templates/stripeform.html#L50

One reason to decide for a dropdown, is that you have to add a number in
cents AND I have to know the currency...

So doing a freeform would have 2 inputs: a dropdown for currency and an
INPUT element for the numbers. And those numbers... well they give me
'Locale' headaches as some prefer to say 1.000 some do 1,000  and what
about 100.000... what is it
So the dropdown is just my laziness :-)
Wanted to add other currencies though (like Japanese or Chinese...), and
as said happy to add other values..
But also as we pay a percentage of the money as fee, I prefered to keep
250 as max (that is already 2-3 beers for Stripe). If people want bigger
amounts: let them pay by bank or become a sponsor.

But, just let me know how to proceed, or do a pull request I can test...

> The other very minor usability issue I can see with the Stripe payment
> form inside
> https://www.qgis.org/en/site/getinvolved/donations.html#qgis-donations
> is that there is a frame (with rounded corners) around "Name", "E-Mail"
> and the amount combobox,but no frame around the credit card fields (Card
> number, expiry date and CVC). I think it would be nicer if those three
> credit card widgets would also have the same frame like the other fields.

Yeah, that 'stripe' / line is the actual magic of Stripe, that flies in
automagically and is a little harder to style. But I will try harder.
Also note that these inputs are not 'normal' inputs, they change color
(aka changing style) if you try to add a non valid inputs (try 01/99 as
expiry, or a non valid Creditcard number. This is all Stripe
handling/checking these values.

> What do people think about removing PayPal from our donations options
> (not closing the account, but just remove it from the options)? Would
> people miss it, or would we miss out on donations? We can also postpone
> this decision for a couple months, but more incentive for people to use
> Stripe instead of PayPal would be nice.

I'm -1 to removing PayPal (though I really hate their services and
costs). When you do not have a Creditcard, it is just the easiest way to
transform some money internationally...

We can try to make it even more clear that we REALLY do not like
PayPal... just give me better wording or ideas, or a PR :-)

Currently our 'paypal' landing page looks like the one attached. We
could try to remove the 'Donate with a Debit or Credit Card' button? So
only PayPal -> PayPal is allowed?
We could also misuse the line 'Purpose' to let other know we really like
Strip payments for creditcards...

And another idea: I would be happy to be paid via PayPal in dollars for
some work I do (so no currency changes), maybe others are too? I use it
to buy small electronics in China :-)

Regards,

Richard Duivenvoorde


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Re: On Stripe and PayPal

Alexandre Neto
In reply to this post by Yves Jacolin
I agree with luigi, I would keep the paypal for a while and see if it is still attracting many donors.

For example, I refuse to provide my credit card information on "random" websites/services. For people that already have an account with Paypal, paying is very comfortable and you only need to provide your information to one entity that you (kinda) trust.

Yves Jacolin <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia quinta, 21/06/2018 às 12:21:


Le 21/06/2018 à 10:53, Paolo Cavallini a écrit :
> I'd be in favour of removing Paypal, unless there are very strong
> reasons to keep it.
+1 also from me!

Y.

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