North arrow in QGIS

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North arrow in QGIS

Hugo Paul

Good day

 

I was wondering if there is a more efficient method for adding a north arrow to a map layout in QGIS than adding an image?

 

Something as simple as just clicking somewhere add -> north arrow, and then being able to choose various styles.

 

Is something like this available?

 

Thanks

Hugo

 

 



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Re: North arrow in QGIS

Phil Wyatt

Hi Hugo,

 

The current procedure is about that easy (in map composer) – if you only want a north arrow on the map window then try View, Decorations, North Arrow (plus any of the other decorations). If you are after just simple maps then this is the easy way and you can then export the map window as an image or PDF

 

Cheers - Phil

 

From: Qgis-user [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Hugo Paul
Sent: Wednesday, 13 February 2019 4:12 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Qgis-user] North arrow in QGIS

 

Good day

 

I was wondering if there is a more efficient method for adding a north arrow to a map layout in QGIS than adding an image?

 

Something as simple as just clicking somewhere add -> north arrow, and then being able to choose various styles.

 

Is something like this available?

 

Thanks

Hugo

 

 

 

Disclaimer

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Re: North arrow in QGIS

Andreas Neumann-4
In reply to this post by Hugo Paul

Hi Hugo,

I was initially also puzzled by the fact there is no "north-arrow" item for the layout. But if you think about it a bit longer, than you realize, that it is just as efficient adding an image and synchronize the rotation to one chosen map, than it is to add a north-arrow, choose an image and synchronize it with a chosen map.

Do you really think, having a separate item for north-arrow is more efficient? How many clicks do you save by having a separate item?

Greetings,

Andreas

Am 13.02.19 um 06:11 schrieb Hugo Paul:

Good day

 

I was wondering if there is a more efficient method for adding a north arrow to a map layout in QGIS than adding an image?

 

Something as simple as just clicking somewhere add -> north arrow, and then being able to choose various styles.

 

Is something like this available?

 

Thanks

Hugo

 

 



Disclaimer

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Re: North arrow in QGIS

Phil Wyatt
In reply to this post by Hugo Paul

PS – if you open Search Directories there a whole heap of north arrows to choose from

 

 

From: Qgis-user [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Hugo Paul
Sent: Wednesday, 13 February 2019 4:12 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Qgis-user] North arrow in QGIS

 

Good day

 

I was wondering if there is a more efficient method for adding a north arrow to a map layout in QGIS than adding an image?

 

Something as simple as just clicking somewhere add -> north arrow, and then being able to choose various styles.

 

Is something like this available?

 

Thanks

Hugo

 

 

 

Disclaimer

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Re: North arrow in QGIS

Frank Sokolic
In reply to this post by Andreas Neumann-4
Hi,

I think from a user point of view the north arrow is not considered to be an image so having a separate north-arrow item makes good sense. I find the current method of adding a north arrow confusing as it requires the user  to know the following:
(a) North arrows are not added by clicking "Add Arrow"
(b) North arrows are added by clicking "Add Picture"
(c) North arrows are in the "Search Directories" section of the image properties but this section is collapsed by default so the user has to know that they must open this section and then scroll to the north arrows

I don't find this very intuitive.

Regards, Frank.

On 2019/02/13 09:12, Andreas Neumann wrote:

Hi Hugo,

I was initially also puzzled by the fact there is no "north-arrow" item for the layout. But if you think about it a bit longer, than you realize, that it is just as efficient adding an image and synchronize the rotation to one chosen map, than it is to add a north-arrow, choose an image and synchronize it with a chosen map.

Do you really think, having a separate item for north-arrow is more efficient? How many clicks do you save by having a separate item?

Greetings,

Andreas

Am 13.02.19 um 06:11 schrieb Hugo Paul:

Good day

 

I was wondering if there is a more efficient method for adding a north arrow to a map layout in QGIS than adding an image?

 

Something as simple as just clicking somewhere add -> north arrow, and then being able to choose various styles.

 

Is something like this available?

 

Thanks

Hugo

 

 



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Re: North arrow in QGIS

macho
Hi,

while I see that a lot of "other" GIS Software has its own button for north arrows I am against adding a north-arrow button.

reasons:
While this is one of the few points which is not intuitive at a first glance the user has to learn how to add the north arrow (and learn that a north arrow is nothing else than an ordinary image).

During learning how to add the arrow I am sure the user will:
1. realize how easy this is done
2. realize that not only north arrows can be added this way but literally every image
3. realize how mighty and handy this function can be due to just not being specialized but rather be as open as possible

In the end while not being handy at the very first moment the user has gained much more insight than just clicking a button (and hoping that it adjusts correct to whatever map he wants).

This is the experience I've made with letting users play and search for north arrows for like 3min.

regards
Werner

On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 8:51 AM Frank Sokolic <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

I think from a user point of view the north arrow is not considered to be an image so having a separate north-arrow item makes good sense. I find the current method of adding a north arrow confusing as it requires the user  to know the following:
(a) North arrows are not added by clicking "Add Arrow"
(b) North arrows are added by clicking "Add Picture"
(c) North arrows are in the "Search Directories" section of the image properties but this section is collapsed by default so the user has to know that they must open this section and then scroll to the north arrows

I don't find this very intuitive.

Regards, Frank.

On 2019/02/13 09:12, Andreas Neumann wrote:

Hi Hugo,

I was initially also puzzled by the fact there is no "north-arrow" item for the layout. But if you think about it a bit longer, than you realize, that it is just as efficient adding an image and synchronize the rotation to one chosen map, than it is to add a north-arrow, choose an image and synchronize it with a chosen map.

Do you really think, having a separate item for north-arrow is more efficient? How many clicks do you save by having a separate item?

Greetings,

Andreas

Am 13.02.19 um 06:11 schrieb Hugo Paul:

Good day

 

I was wondering if there is a more efficient method for adding a north arrow to a map layout in QGIS than adding an image?

 

Something as simple as just clicking somewhere add -> north arrow, and then being able to choose various styles.

 

Is something like this available?

 

Thanks

Hugo

 

 



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Re: North arrow in QGIS

Micha Silver-2
In reply to this post by Frank Sokolic

On 2/13/19 9:41 AM, Frank Sokolic wrote:
Hi,

I think from a user point of view the north arrow is not considered to be an image so having a separate north-arrow item makes good sense. I find the current method of adding a north arrow confusing as it requires the user  to know the following:
(a) North arrows are not added by clicking "Add Arrow"
(b) North arrows are added by clicking "Add Picture"
(c) North arrows are in the "Search Directories" section of the image properties but this section is collapsed by default so the user has to know that they must open this section and then scroll to the north arrows


I have no problem with the "Add Picture" approach but it would be better to have the "Search Directories" displayed by default. It's not at all obvious (surely not to a new user) that you have to expand that panel in order to find the north arrow images.



I don't find this very intuitive.

Regards, Frank.

On 2019/02/13 09:12, Andreas Neumann wrote:

Hi Hugo,

I was initially also puzzled by the fact there is no "north-arrow" item for the layout. But if you think about it a bit longer, than you realize, that it is just as efficient adding an image and synchronize the rotation to one chosen map, than it is to add a north-arrow, choose an image and synchronize it with a chosen map.

Do you really think, having a separate item for north-arrow is more efficient? How many clicks do you save by having a separate item?

Greetings,

Andreas

Am 13.02.19 um 06:11 schrieb Hugo Paul:

Good day

 

I was wondering if there is a more efficient method for adding a north arrow to a map layout in QGIS than adding an image?

 

Something as simple as just clicking somewhere add -> north arrow, and then being able to choose various styles.

 

Is something like this available?

 

Thanks

Hugo

 

 



Disclaimer

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This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and automatically archived by Mimecast SA (Pty) Ltd, an innovator in Software as a Service (SaaS) for business. Mimecast Unified Email Management ™ (UEM) offers email continuity, security, archiving and compliance with all current legislation. To find out more, contact Mimecast.


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Re: North arrow in QGIS

Richard Duivenvoorde
In reply to this post by macho
On 2/13/19 9:30 AM, Werner Macho wrote:
> Hi,
>
> while I see that a lot of "other" GIS Software has its own button for
> north arrows I am against adding a north-arrow button.
>
> reasons:
> While this is one of the few points which is not intuitive at a first
> glance the user has to learn how to add the north arrow (and learn that
> a north arrow is nothing else than an ordinary image).

To be honest I'm not so much a user of the Layout-part of QGIS, but
shouldn't the a North arrow be an essential property of a map, AND
should the North-arrow not always point to the North of the given crs?

Trying out here in a layout, if I rotate the map 10 degrees, the arrow
image is fixed to top. Or do I miss something, like that you can 'fix an
image to the north' or so?

Another question that pops up: are all crs's always pointing to 0
degrees North? And if not is a crs aware of that?
If so I would opt for either some function to have an intelligent North
Arrow in layouts (which are aware of crs, so rotate with map), and which
can reuse the image dialogs?
Or add such intelligence to the already image props (besides a North
arrow I can think about images of a ground level which always have to be
horizontal or so)?

Sorry for popping up this questions...

Regards,

Richard Duivenvoorde





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Re: North arrow in QGIS

Benjamin Ducke-4
In reply to this post by Micha Silver-2
Hi,

On 13/02/2019 09:30, Micha Silver wrote:

>
> On 2/13/19 9:41 AM, Frank Sokolic wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I think from a user point of view the north arrow is not considered to
>> be an image so having a separate north-arrow item makes good sense. I
>> find the current method of adding a north arrow confusing as it
>> requires the user  to know the following:
>> (a) North arrows are not added by clicking "Add Arrow"
>> (b) North arrows are added by clicking "Add Picture"
>> (c) North arrows are in the "Search Directories" section of the image
>> properties but this section is collapsed by default so the user has to
>> know that they must open this section and then scroll to the north arrows
>
>
> I have no problem with the "Add Picture" approach but it would be better
> to have the "Search Directories" displayed by default. It's not at all
> obvious (surely not to a new user) that you have to expand that panel in
> order to find the north arrow images.

Some empirical remarks, from observing users
that understand cartography, but not technical
UI design decisions:

Out of the ~200 people that I have trained on
QGIS, ~100% did have trouble finding a way
to insert a north arrow into a map layout.
About ~75% of them clicked on "Add Arrow",
and some of those were quite satisfied with
the result; so in the future, expect to see many
maps created with QGIS that have ordinary arrows
adorning them, which more or less point
northwards!

There are various reasons why the current
method does not work in practice:

- people do not think of a north arrow
as an ordinary picture; they think of it
(and rightly so) as a cartographic element
with the same rank as a scale bar; after
all, like a scale bar, it has a dynamic
property (its orientation)

- some think of a "north arrow" as an
"arrow" (which leads to: see above)

- "ordinary images" are inserted into a
layout by using the "Add Picture" function;
that leaves people wondering where to find
north arrow pictures, and they wander of
to Google to find some...

So the complete mental chain here is:

north arrow -> picture -> built-in picture

... and that just leaves people totally
stranded (never mind the fact that the UI
element for browsing shipped images is
collapsed by default, so people will just
scroll past it; and that there is a lag
of sometimes several seconds between clicking
on the tiny triangle and getting to see
actual images; so people will scroll past
it again; and that "Search Directories" is
a UI label that most people don't associate
with anything useful...).

In my view, this is a part of the UI that is
conceptually broken in about half a dozen places,
and there should be a dedicated north arrow
tool "Add North Arrow", exactly where it should
be, i.e. right next to "Add Scalebar".

Best,

Benjamin

>
>
>>
>> I don't find this very intuitive.
>>
>> Regards, Frank.
>>
>> On 2019/02/13 09:12, Andreas Neumann wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Hugo,
>>>
>>> I was initially also puzzled by the fact there is no "north-arrow"
>>> item for the layout. But if you think about it a bit longer, than you
>>> realize, that it is just as efficient adding an image and synchronize
>>> the rotation to one chosen map, than it is to add a north-arrow,
>>> choose an image and synchronize it with a chosen map.
>>>
>>> Do you really think, having a separate item for north-arrow is more
>>> efficient? How many clicks do you save by having a separate item?
>>>
>>> Greetings,
>>>
>>> Andreas
>>>
>>> Am 13.02.19 um 06:11 schrieb Hugo Paul:
>>>>
>>>> Good day
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> I was wondering if there is a more efficient method for adding a
>>>> north arrow to a map layout in QGIS than adding an image?
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> Something as simple as just clicking somewhere add -> north arrow,
>>>> and then being able to choose various styles.
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> Is something like this available?
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> Hugo
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Disclaimer*
>>>>
>>>> The information contained in this communication from the sender is
>>>> confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and
>>>> others authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you
>>>> are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or
>>>> taking action in relation of the contents of this information is
>>>> strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.
>>>>
>>>> This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and
>>>> automatically archived by *Mimecast SA (Pty) Ltd*, an innovator in
>>>> Software as a Service (SaaS) for business. *Mimecast Unified Email
>>>> Management ™ (UEM)* offers email continuity, security, archiving and
>>>> compliance with all current legislation. To find out more, contact
>>>> Mimecast <http://www.mimecast.co.za/uem>.
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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>
> --
> Micha Silver
> Ben Gurion Univ.
> Sde Boker, Remote Sensing Lab
> cell: +972-523-665918
>
>
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--
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Zentrale Berlin, IT-Referat
* Projekt "Stunde Null" *
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Re: North arrow in QGIS

macho
In reply to this post by Richard Duivenvoorde
Hi Richard,

Thats exactly the thing users can easily learn.
You have to connect the image to a map.
Of course most of the time there will be only one map, but if there are more the computer does not know which map to connect to (Sync with map)
Once the connection is done (IIRC there is good documentation on this) the image rotates the same way you rotate the map.
Thats it .. 
Once you know how to do it - you'll never forget - and it is handy in a lot of different ways and helps to know this broad approach.

This is what a search gives me:

It's a life long learning isn't it?

regards
Werner

On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 9:49 AM Richard Duivenvoorde <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 2/13/19 9:30 AM, Werner Macho wrote:
> Hi,
>
> while I see that a lot of "other" GIS Software has its own button for
> north arrows I am against adding a north-arrow button.
>
> reasons:
> While this is one of the few points which is not intuitive at a first
> glance the user has to learn how to add the north arrow (and learn that
> a north arrow is nothing else than an ordinary image).

To be honest I'm not so much a user of the Layout-part of QGIS, but
shouldn't the a North arrow be an essential property of a map, AND
should the North-arrow not always point to the North of the given crs?

Trying out here in a layout, if I rotate the map 10 degrees, the arrow
image is fixed to top. Or do I miss something, like that you can 'fix an
image to the north' or so?

Another question that pops up: are all crs's always pointing to 0
degrees North? And if not is a crs aware of that?
If so I would opt for either some function to have an intelligent North
Arrow in layouts (which are aware of crs, so rotate with map), and which
can reuse the image dialogs?
Or add such intelligence to the already image props (besides a North
arrow I can think about images of a ground level which always have to be
horizontal or so)?

Sorry for popping up this questions...

Regards,

Richard Duivenvoorde





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Re: North arrow in QGIS

Bernhard Ströbl
In reply to this post by Richard Duivenvoorde
Hi,

Am 13.02.2019 um 09:49 schrieb Richard Duivenvoorde:

> On 2/13/19 9:30 AM, Werner Macho wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> while I see that a lot of "other" GIS Software has its own button for
>> north arrows I am against adding a north-arrow button.
>>
>> reasons:
>> While this is one of the few points which is not intuitive at a first
>> glance the user has to learn how to add the north arrow (and learn that
>> a north arrow is nothing else than an ordinary image).
>
> To be honest I'm not so much a user of the Layout-part of QGIS, but
> shouldn't the a North arrow be an essential property of a map,

IMHO not, if north is at the top of the map; yes if otherwise

> AND
> should the North-arrow not always point to the North of the given crs?

yes

>
> Trying out here in a layout, if I rotate the map 10 degrees, the arrow
> image is fixed to top. Or do I miss something, like that you can 'fix an
> image to the north' or so?


you have to connect the image with that map, so if the map is rotated so
is the image (aka north arrow)

>
> Another question that pops up: are all crs's always pointing to 0
> degrees North? And if not is a crs aware of that?

There exist three different north directions:
a) magnetic north (probably not of interest here)
b) geographic north, i.e. the North Pole
c) map or crs north

depending on the crs b and c may be identical

the north arrow should point to c, but depending on the crs c may differ
at different places in the map

> If so I would opt for either some function to have an intelligent North
> Arrow in layouts (which are aware of crs, so rotate with map), and which
> can reuse the image dialogs?
> Or add such intelligence to the already image props (besides a North
> arrow I can think about images of a ground level which always have to be
> horizontal or so)?
>
> Sorry for popping up this questions...
>
> Regards,
>
> Richard Duivenvoorde
>
>

coming back to the original question: I would not mind to have an
additional button for the north arrow, which would be a shortcut to
create the image, choose a default north-arrow svg and connect it with
the map.

Bernhard


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Re: North arrow in QGIS

b.j.kobben
In reply to this post by Benjamin Ducke-4

+1

 

 

--

Barend Köbben

 

 

On 13/02/2019, 10:03, "Qgis-user on behalf of Benjamin Ducke" <[hidden email] on behalf of [hidden email]> wrote:

 

Hi,

 

On 13/02/2019 09:30, Micha Silver wrote:

On 2/13/19 9:41 AM, Frank Sokolic wrote:

Hi,

 

I think from a user point of view the north arrow is not considered to

be an image so having a separate north-arrow item makes good sense. I

find the current method of adding a north arrow confusing as it

requires the user  to know the following:

(a) North arrows are not added by clicking "Add Arrow"

(b) North arrows are added by clicking "Add Picture"

(c) North arrows are in the "Search Directories" section of the image

properties but this section is collapsed by default so the user has to

know that they must open this section and then scroll to the north arrows

I have no problem with the "Add Picture" approach but it would be better

to have the "Search Directories" displayed by default. It's not at all

obvious (surely not to a new user) that you have to expand that panel in

order to find the north arrow images.

 

Some empirical remarks, from observing users

that understand cartography, but not technical

UI design decisions:

 

Out of the ~200 people that I have trained on

QGIS, ~100% did have trouble finding a way

to insert a north arrow into a map layout.

About ~75% of them clicked on "Add Arrow",

and some of those were quite satisfied with

the result; so in the future, expect to see many

maps created with QGIS that have ordinary arrows

adorning them, which more or less point

northwards!

 

There are various reasons why the current

method does not work in practice:

 

- people do not think of a north arrow

as an ordinary picture; they think of it

(and rightly so) as a cartographic element

with the same rank as a scale bar; after

all, like a scale bar, it has a dynamic

property (its orientation)

 

- some think of a "north arrow" as an

"arrow" (which leads to: see above)

 

- "ordinary images" are inserted into a

layout by using the "Add Picture" function;

that leaves people wondering where to find

north arrow pictures, and they wander of

to Google to find some...

 

So the complete mental chain here is:

 

north arrow -> picture -> built-in picture

 

... and that just leaves people totally

stranded (never mind the fact that the UI

element for browsing shipped images is

collapsed by default, so people will just

scroll past it; and that there is a lag

of sometimes several seconds between clicking

on the tiny triangle and getting to see

actual images; so people will scroll past

it again; and that "Search Directories" is

a UI label that most people don't associate

with anything useful...).

 

In my view, this is a part of the UI that is

conceptually broken in about half a dozen places,

and there should be a dedicated north arrow

tool "Add North Arrow", exactly where it should

be, i.e. right next to "Add Scalebar".

 

Best,

 

Benjamin

 

 

I don't find this very intuitive.

 

Regards, Frank.

 

On 2019/02/13 09:12, Andreas Neumann wrote:

 

Hi Hugo,

 

I was initially also puzzled by the fact there is no "north-arrow"

item for the layout. But if you think about it a bit longer, than you

realize, that it is just as efficient adding an image and synchronize

the rotation to one chosen map, than it is to add a north-arrow,

choose an image and synchronize it with a chosen map.

 

Do you really think, having a separate item for north-arrow is more

efficient? How many clicks do you save by having a separate item?

 

Greetings,

 

Andreas

 

Am 13.02.19 um 06:11 schrieb Hugo Paul:

 

Good day

 

 

 

I was wondering if there is a more efficient method for adding a

north arrow to a map layout in QGIS than adding an image?

 

 

 

Something as simple as just clicking somewhere add -> north arrow,

and then being able to choose various styles.

 

 

 

Is something like this available?

 

 

 

Thanks

 

Hugo

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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taking action in relation of the contents of this information is

strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.

 

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cell: +972-523-665918

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Deutsches Archäologisches Institut (DAI)

Zentrale Berlin, IT-Referat

* Projekt "Stunde Null" *

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Re: North arrow in QGIS

Nyall Dawson
In reply to this post by Bernhard Ströbl
On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 at 19:01, Bernhard Ströbl <[hidden email]> wrote:

> coming back to the original question: I would not mind to have an
> additional button for the north arrow, which would be a shortcut to
> create the image, choose a default north-arrow svg and connect it with
> the map.

This is entirely possible without major work -- e.g. the current "add
arrow" item tool is just a shortcut for drawing lines with an arrow
head automatically enabled. The end result is the same as if you'd
drawn a line then turned on the arrowhead.

We could easily do the same for north arrows, and have the action
insert a picture, link it to the largest map in the layout by default,
and default to a NICE north arrow picture.

Nyall

>
> Bernhard
>
>
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>
> The message was checked by ESET Mail Security.
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
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Re: North arrow in QGIS

Andreas Neumann-4
In reply to this post by Benjamin Ducke-4
Hi Benjamin,

While you may be right that the UI might be broken in some cases, please
don't open the "UI element for browsing shipped images". There is a
reason it is collapsed by default: The folders contain thousands of
images (depending on your configuration). The images may reside on
network drives and it slows down everything a lot. I'd rather have this
section collapsed than having it block my interface for 10 seconds while
it is browsing and opening these image folders.

If we add a new item for north-arrow, the image browser should then
display only the folder with north-arrows and not all the many thousand
images.

@Benjamin: have you (or some students of yours) thought about
contributing to improving the UI of QGIS? It is easy to complain -
especially people from Academia are fast to complain - but they often
take it for granted that everything is free and accessible (except maybe
the papers they produce (not saying that you do that)) - and of course
the stuff they use for free should also work without glitches ....

Academia (and other trainers) are welcome to use QGIS for free, but it
would be nice, if they run into issues, that they also contribute back
(some do - some (probably the majority) doesn't).

Greetings,

Andreas

Am 13.02.19 um 09:56 schrieb Benjamin Ducke:

> Hi,
>
> On 13/02/2019 09:30, Micha Silver wrote:
>> On 2/13/19 9:41 AM, Frank Sokolic wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I think from a user point of view the north arrow is not considered to
>>> be an image so having a separate north-arrow item makes good sense. I
>>> find the current method of adding a north arrow confusing as it
>>> requires the user  to know the following:
>>> (a) North arrows are not added by clicking "Add Arrow"
>>> (b) North arrows are added by clicking "Add Picture"
>>> (c) North arrows are in the "Search Directories" section of the image
>>> properties but this section is collapsed by default so the user has to
>>> know that they must open this section and then scroll to the north arrows
>>
>> I have no problem with the "Add Picture" approach but it would be better
>> to have the "Search Directories" displayed by default. It's not at all
>> obvious (surely not to a new user) that you have to expand that panel in
>> order to find the north arrow images.
> Some empirical remarks, from observing users
> that understand cartography, but not technical
> UI design decisions:
>
> Out of the ~200 people that I have trained on
> QGIS, ~100% did have trouble finding a way
> to insert a north arrow into a map layout.
> About ~75% of them clicked on "Add Arrow",
> and some of those were quite satisfied with
> the result; so in the future, expect to see many
> maps created with QGIS that have ordinary arrows
> adorning them, which more or less point
> northwards!
>
> There are various reasons why the current
> method does not work in practice:
>
> - people do not think of a north arrow
> as an ordinary picture; they think of it
> (and rightly so) as a cartographic element
> with the same rank as a scale bar; after
> all, like a scale bar, it has a dynamic
> property (its orientation)
>
> - some think of a "north arrow" as an
> "arrow" (which leads to: see above)
>
> - "ordinary images" are inserted into a
> layout by using the "Add Picture" function;
> that leaves people wondering where to find
> north arrow pictures, and they wander of
> to Google to find some...
>
> So the complete mental chain here is:
>
> north arrow -> picture -> built-in picture
>
> ... and that just leaves people totally
> stranded (never mind the fact that the UI
> element for browsing shipped images is
> collapsed by default, so people will just
> scroll past it; and that there is a lag
> of sometimes several seconds between clicking
> on the tiny triangle and getting to see
> actual images; so people will scroll past
> it again; and that "Search Directories" is
> a UI label that most people don't associate
> with anything useful...).
>
> In my view, this is a part of the UI that is
> conceptually broken in about half a dozen places,
> and there should be a dedicated north arrow
> tool "Add North Arrow", exactly where it should
> be, i.e. right next to "Add Scalebar".
>
> Best,
>
> Benjamin
>
>>
>>> I don't find this very intuitive.
>>>
>>> Regards, Frank.
>>>
>>> On 2019/02/13 09:12, Andreas Neumann wrote:
>>>> Hi Hugo,
>>>>
>>>> I was initially also puzzled by the fact there is no "north-arrow"
>>>> item for the layout. But if you think about it a bit longer, than you
>>>> realize, that it is just as efficient adding an image and synchronize
>>>> the rotation to one chosen map, than it is to add a north-arrow,
>>>> choose an image and synchronize it with a chosen map.
>>>>
>>>> Do you really think, having a separate item for north-arrow is more
>>>> efficient? How many clicks do you save by having a separate item?
>>>>
>>>> Greetings,
>>>>
>>>> Andreas
>>>>
>>>> Am 13.02.19 um 06:11 schrieb Hugo Paul:
>>>>> Good day
>>>>>
>>>>>  
>>>>>
>>>>> I was wondering if there is a more efficient method for adding a
>>>>> north arrow to a map layout in QGIS than adding an image?
>>>>>
>>>>>  
>>>>>
>>>>> Something as simple as just clicking somewhere add -> north arrow,
>>>>> and then being able to choose various styles.
>>>>>
>>>>>  
>>>>>
>>>>> Is something like this available?
>>>>>
>>>>>  
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>> Hugo
>>>>>
>>>>>  
>>>>>
>>>>>  
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Disclaimer*
>>>>>
>>>>> The information contained in this communication from the sender is
>>>>> confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and
>>>>> others authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you
>>>>> are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or
>>>>> taking action in relation of the contents of this information is
>>>>> strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.
>>>>>
>>>>> This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and
>>>>> automatically archived by *Mimecast SA (Pty) Ltd*, an innovator in
>>>>> Software as a Service (SaaS) for business. *Mimecast Unified Email
>>>>> Management ™ (UEM)* offers email continuity, security, archiving and
>>>>> compliance with all current legislation. To find out more, contact
>>>>> Mimecast <http://www.mimecast.co.za/uem>.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Qgis-user mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> List info: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
>>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Qgis-user mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> List info: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
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>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> [hidden email]
>>> List info: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
>> --
>> Micha Silver
>> Ben Gurion Univ.
>> Sde Boker, Remote Sensing Lab
>> cell: +972-523-665918
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Qgis-user mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> List info: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
>>
>
>
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Re: North arrow in QGIS

Phil Wyatt
In reply to this post by Benjamin Ducke-4
...and then you also have the users that have templates with built in North arrows who really don’t have to worry too much after initial template design.

I LOVE the fact that I have full control to do it any way I like!

Cheers - Phil

-----Original Message-----
From: Qgis-user [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Benjamin Ducke
Sent: Wednesday, 13 February 2019 7:56 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Qgis-user] North arrow in QGIS

Hi,

On 13/02/2019 09:30, Micha Silver wrote:

>
> On 2/13/19 9:41 AM, Frank Sokolic wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I think from a user point of view the north arrow is not considered to
>> be an image so having a separate north-arrow item makes good sense. I
>> find the current method of adding a north arrow confusing as it
>> requires the user  to know the following:
>> (a) North arrows are not added by clicking "Add Arrow"
>> (b) North arrows are added by clicking "Add Picture"
>> (c) North arrows are in the "Search Directories" section of the image
>> properties but this section is collapsed by default so the user has to
>> know that they must open this section and then scroll to the north arrows
>
>
> I have no problem with the "Add Picture" approach but it would be better
> to have the "Search Directories" displayed by default. It's not at all
> obvious (surely not to a new user) that you have to expand that panel in
> order to find the north arrow images.

Some empirical remarks, from observing users
that understand cartography, but not technical
UI design decisions:

Out of the ~200 people that I have trained on
QGIS, ~100% did have trouble finding a way
to insert a north arrow into a map layout.
About ~75% of them clicked on "Add Arrow",
and some of those were quite satisfied with
the result; so in the future, expect to see many
maps created with QGIS that have ordinary arrows
adorning them, which more or less point
northwards!

There are various reasons why the current
method does not work in practice:

- people do not think of a north arrow
as an ordinary picture; they think of it
(and rightly so) as a cartographic element
with the same rank as a scale bar; after
all, like a scale bar, it has a dynamic
property (its orientation)

- some think of a "north arrow" as an
"arrow" (which leads to: see above)

- "ordinary images" are inserted into a
layout by using the "Add Picture" function;
that leaves people wondering where to find
north arrow pictures, and they wander of
to Google to find some...

So the complete mental chain here is:

north arrow -> picture -> built-in picture

... and that just leaves people totally
stranded (never mind the fact that the UI
element for browsing shipped images is
collapsed by default, so people will just
scroll past it; and that there is a lag
of sometimes several seconds between clicking
on the tiny triangle and getting to see
actual images; so people will scroll past
it again; and that "Search Directories" is
a UI label that most people don't associate
with anything useful...).

In my view, this is a part of the UI that is
conceptually broken in about half a dozen places,
and there should be a dedicated north arrow
tool "Add North Arrow", exactly where it should
be, i.e. right next to "Add Scalebar".

Best,

Benjamin

>
>
>>
>> I don't find this very intuitive.
>>
>> Regards, Frank.
>>
>> On 2019/02/13 09:12, Andreas Neumann wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Hugo,
>>>
>>> I was initially also puzzled by the fact there is no "north-arrow"
>>> item for the layout. But if you think about it a bit longer, than you
>>> realize, that it is just as efficient adding an image and synchronize
>>> the rotation to one chosen map, than it is to add a north-arrow,
>>> choose an image and synchronize it with a chosen map.
>>>
>>> Do you really think, having a separate item for north-arrow is more
>>> efficient? How many clicks do you save by having a separate item?
>>>
>>> Greetings,
>>>
>>> Andreas
>>>
>>> Am 13.02.19 um 06:11 schrieb Hugo Paul:
>>>>
>>>> Good day
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> I was wondering if there is a more efficient method for adding a
>>>> north arrow to a map layout in QGIS than adding an image?
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> Something as simple as just clicking somewhere add -> north arrow,
>>>> and then being able to choose various styles.
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> Is something like this available?
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> Hugo
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Disclaimer*
>>>>
>>>> The information contained in this communication from the sender is
>>>> confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and
>>>> others authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you
>>>> are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or
>>>> taking action in relation of the contents of this information is
>>>> strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.
>>>>
>>>> This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and
>>>> automatically archived by *Mimecast SA (Pty) Ltd*, an innovator in
>>>> Software as a Service (SaaS) for business. *Mimecast Unified Email
>>>> Management ™ (UEM)* offers email continuity, security, archiving and
>>>> compliance with all current legislation. To find out more, contact
>>>> Mimecast <http://www.mimecast.co.za/uem>.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Qgis-user mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> List info: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Qgis-user mailing list
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>>> List info: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> List info: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
>
> --
> Micha Silver
> Ben Gurion Univ.
> Sde Boker, Remote Sensing Lab
> cell: +972-523-665918
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Qgis-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> List info: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
>



--
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Deutsches Archäologisches Institut (DAI)
Zentrale Berlin, IT-Referat
* Projekt "Stunde Null" *
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Re: North arrow in QGIS

Andreas Neumann-4
In reply to this post by Nyall Dawson
Hi Nyall,

If it is that easy to do (without a lot of duplication (in code and UI))
then I would also be in favor of adding a new separate item for
north-arrows.

It would then just point to the folder that contains the images of
north-arrows and could display the image browser of the available
north-arrows in a non-collapsed state.

Andreas

Am 13.02.19 um 10:17 schrieb Nyall Dawson:

> On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 at 19:01, Bernhard Ströbl <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> coming back to the original question: I would not mind to have an
>> additional button for the north arrow, which would be a shortcut to
>> create the image, choose a default north-arrow svg and connect it with
>> the map.
> This is entirely possible without major work -- e.g. the current "add
> arrow" item tool is just a shortcut for drawing lines with an arrow
> head automatically enabled. The end result is the same as if you'd
> drawn a line then turned on the arrowhead.
>
> We could easily do the same for north arrows, and have the action
> insert a picture, link it to the largest map in the layout by default,
> and default to a NICE north arrow picture.
>
> Nyall
>
>> Bernhard
>>
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET Mail Security, version of virus signature database 18866 (20190213) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET Mail Security.
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Qgis-user mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> List info: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
> _______________________________________________
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Re: North arrow in QGIS

Nyall Dawson
On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 at 20:12, Andreas Neumann <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi Nyall,
>
> If it is that easy to do (without a lot of duplication (in code and UI))
> then I would also be in favor of adding a new separate item for
> north-arrows.
>
> It would then just point to the folder that contains the images of
> north-arrows and could display the image browser of the available
> north-arrows in a non-collapsed state.
>

Right, I'll add it to the TODO list :)

> There is a  reason it is collapsed by default: The folders contain thousands of
> images (depending on your configuration). The images may reside on
> network drives and it slows down everything a lot. I'd rather have this
> section collapsed than having it block my interface for 10 seconds while
> it is browsing and opening these image folders.

This is actually avoidable, as the main SVG fill/marker picture
selector populates in the background. It's just that the layout
picture widget hasn't been reworked to use this same selector yet.

Nyall

> Andreas
>
> Am 13.02.19 um 10:17 schrieb Nyall Dawson:
> > On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 at 19:01, Bernhard Ströbl <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> coming back to the original question: I would not mind to have an
> >> additional button for the north arrow, which would be a shortcut to
> >> create the image, choose a default north-arrow svg and connect it with
> >> the map.
> > This is entirely possible without major work -- e.g. the current "add
> > arrow" item tool is just a shortcut for drawing lines with an arrow
> > head automatically enabled. The end result is the same as if you'd
> > drawn a line then turned on the arrowhead.
> >
> > We could easily do the same for north arrows, and have the action
> > insert a picture, link it to the largest map in the layout by default,
> > and default to a NICE north arrow picture.
> >
> > Nyall
> >
> >> Bernhard
> >>
> >>
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Re: North arrow in QGIS

Nyall Dawson
On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 at 20:28, Nyall Dawson <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 at 20:12, Andreas Neumann <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Nyall,
> >
> > If it is that easy to do (without a lot of duplication (in code and UI))
> > then I would also be in favor of adding a new separate item for
> > north-arrows.
> >
> > It would then just point to the folder that contains the images of
> > north-arrows and could display the image browser of the available
> > north-arrows in a non-collapsed state.
> >
>
> Right, I'll add it to the TODO list :)

Ok, done in https://github.com/qgis/QGIS/pull/30182

Feedback welcome!
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