My feelings about board elections

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My feelings about board elections

Sanghee Shin

Dear All,

 

First of all I'd like to give my sincere congratulations to newly elected board members. Here I want to share some of my feelings around this board elections.

 

1. Needless to say all new board members are deserved to win the election. However as a whole, now we have all WHITE board of directors only from Europe and North America. We've talked about the importance of diversity and inclusiveness many times so far, however the reality is like this. Please don't get me wrong. I'm not writing this because of my failure in an election. Being nominated and encouragement to run the election was just great honour to me. For me as Asian, one of most shocking and disappointing moment in this election was Venka's failure in an election. Venka has contributed so much to Asian community over the last 2 years. His contributions and activities reached out not only to Japan but also to Thailand, Vietnam, India and sometimes to Korea as well. He also put so much efforts organizing FOSS4G Asia this year. And I know as a former board member how he restlessly carried out his duty as president of OSGeo. And finally he failed! I know he didn't answer to some of quesitons to nominees during the election period. Ok, its excuse however he and I was being tied up with handling a urgent issue in community. Anyway I and other Asian friends are so shocked that he was not elected! I bet other Asian members share the same feeling. The result gave the clear meaning to Asian community, "If Venka can't be a board member of OSGeo, nobody can be forever from Asia." I already saw many complaints and discouragement in Asian community. I believe regions other than Europe and NA have the rights to be reprensented failry. So, I'd like to ask new board members to fix this kind of wrong representation of board configuration by adopting new election rules.

 

2. I believe Jeff McKenna's ambiguous behaviours around election period made both him and OSGeo untrustworthy. I don't want to mention again here some of concerns over him in detail during the election. One thing I'd like to point out is his un-withdrwal from board election after disclosing the results. Nothing personal, Jeff. Actually I tried to accept and understand this situation so many times for a couple of days, but I failed to accept. We're not the children in the kindergarten! How can it be happened? The last thing I did as a former board member was approving the motion, "This board election is valid." I was able to block the motion however I approved the motion. Because I accepted his withdrawal as sincere one and trusted him. I'm feeling my good intention was being betrayed. I know I don't have any rights now to change my previous decision and I don't want to criticise someone here. New board, this case cleary has shown that there's big loophole in our election process. If OSGe can't fix it, OSGeo will lose trust and credibility. Board, you need to bear in mind that there's already bunch of sign of loosing trust from community.

 

Many mentioned that OSGeo is run by Do-ocracy. I believe the basis of Do-ocracy is recognizing of someone's work and trust. If someone's hardwork is not recognized and acknowledged fairy, who will want to jump into the matters to fix it? And if someone can't trust the organization, who wants to put their precious time and efforts to untrustworthy one?

 

If OSGeo lose the trust, it will lose everything. OSGeo is just shell.

 

Best regards,

신상희
---
Shin, Sanghee
Gaia3D, Inc. - The GeoSpatial Company
www.gaia3d.com

 


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Re: My feelings about board elections

Hogan, Patrick (ARC-PX)

Sanghee, +1

Thank you for your frank discussion.

Your sincere words are dearly needed to be heard.

The behavior leading to the chaos of recent events, apparently not unique, should not be ignored.

Even more difficult to address are the one-sided results in light of our larger body, as you have generously described. To add a bit of ‘jocular noire’, do consider the difficulty our poor planet is having with election results worldwide.

Thank you much for these beautifully expressed thoughts.

-Patrick

 

From: Discuss [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Sanghee Shin
Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2017 3:18 PM
To: OSGeo Discussions
Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] My feelings about board elections

 

Dear All,

 

First of all I'd like to give my sincere congratulations to newly elected board members. Here I want to share some of my feelings around this board elections.

 

1. Needless to say all new board members are deserved to win the election. However as a whole, now we have all WHITE board of directors only from Europe and North America. We've talked about the importance of diversity and inclusiveness many times so far, however the reality is like this. Please don't get me wrong. I'm not writing this because of my failure in an election. Being nominated and encouragement to run the election was just great honour to me. For me as Asian, one of most shocking and disappointing moment in this election was Venka's failure in an election. Venka has contributed so much to Asian community over the last 2 years. His contributions and activities reached out not only to Japan but also to Thailand, Vietnam, India and sometimes to Korea as well. He also put so much efforts organizing FOSS4G Asia this year. And I know as a former board member how he restlessly carried out his duty as president of OSGeo. And finally he failed! I know he didn't answer to some of quesitons to nominees during the election period. Ok, its excuse however he and I was being tied up with handling a urgent issue in community. Anyway I and other Asian friends are so shocked that he was not elected! I bet other Asian members share the same feeling. The result gave the clear meaning to Asian community, "If Venka can't be a board member of OSGeo, nobody can be forever from Asia." I already saw many complaints and discouragement in Asian community. I believe regions other than Europe and NA have the rights to be reprensented failry. So, I'd like to ask new board members to fix this kind of wrong representation of board configuration by adopting new election rules.

 

2. I believe Jeff McKenna's ambiguous behaviours around election period made both him and OSGeo untrustworthy. I don't want to mention again here some of concerns over him in detail during the election. One thing I'd like to point out is his un-withdrwal from board election after disclosing the results. Nothing personal, Jeff. Actually I tried to accept and understand this situation so many times for a couple of days, but I failed to accept. We're not the children in the kindergarten! How can it be happened? The last thing I did as a former board member was approving the motion, "This board election is valid." I was able to block the motion however I approved the motion. Because I accepted his withdrawal as sincere one and trusted him. I'm feeling my good intention was being betrayed. I know I don't have any rights now to change my previous decision and I don't want to criticise someone here. New board, this case cleary has shown that there's big loophole in our election process. If OSGe can't fix it, OSGeo will lose trust and credibility. Board, you need to bear in mind that there's already bunch of sign of loosing trust from community.

 

Many mentioned that OSGeo is run by Do-ocracy. I believe the basis of Do-ocracy is recognizing of someone's work and trust. If someone's hardwork is not recognized and acknowledged fairy, who will want to jump into the matters to fix it? And if someone can't trust the organization, who wants to put their precious time and efforts to untrustworthy one?

 

If OSGeo lose the trust, it will lose everything. OSGeo is just shell.

 

Best regards,

신상희
---
Shin, Sanghee
Gaia3D, Inc. - The GeoSpatial Company
www.gaia3d.com

 


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Re: My feelings about board elections

Maria Antonia Brovelli
In reply to this post by Sanghee Shin

Dear Sanghee

Many thanks for your frank email. I also want to congratulate the new friends elected but, at the same time, I share your same  considerations. I feel not confortable in a Board that is only, as you correctly pointed out, European and North American. That is not becasue I don't like the current Board Members. On the opposite, they are wonderful and I love them. But there is something wrong if we missed one part of the world which before was represented and we have not added any new one.

With respect to point 2 of your mail, I also agree with you. It seems me not serious to change ideas every other day. Also in this case, I have nothing against Jeff, whose activism, enthusiasm and help is so important for all of us, but I can simply say that I would not behave in this way. 

Writing this mail was a bit tough and I thank you, Sanghee, for starting this discussion (I imagine how difficult it was by you). Sometimes we need also to discuss about weak points in the life of the Foundation.

Best regards and love to all of you.

Maria



Pay attention to this Special Issue and see if it is of interest by you:

http://www.mdpi.com/journal/ijgi/special_issues/Geospatial_Big_Data_Urban_Studies



----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Remote Sensing
Politecnico di Milano

ISPRS WG IV/4 "Collaborative crowdsourced cloud mapping (C3M)" http://www2.isprs.org/commissions/comm4/wg4.htmlBoard of Directors of OSGeo; GeoForAll Advisory Board; NASA WorldWind Europa Challenge; SIFET Advisory Board


UN-GGIM Academic Network Deputy Chair, UN-GGIM Italy, UN OpenGIS Initiative (Chair of the Capacity Building WG)


Sol Katz Award 2015

 

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)

Tel. +39-02-23996242 - Mob. +39-328-0023867,  [hidden email][hidden email]





 




Da: Discuss <[hidden email]> per conto di Sanghee Shin <[hidden email]>
Inviato: domenica 29 ottobre 2017 15:17
A: OSGeo Discussions
Oggetto: [OSGeo-Discuss] My feelings about board elections
 

Dear All,

 

First of all I'd like to give my sincere congratulations to newly elected board members. Here I want to share some of my feelings around this board elections.

 

1. Needless to say all new board members are deserved to win the election. However as a whole, now we have all WHITE board of directors only from Europe and North America. We've talked about the importance of diversity and inclusiveness many times so far, however the reality is like this. Please don't get me wrong. I'm not writing this because of my failure in an election. Being nominated and encouragement to run the election was just great honour to me. For me as Asian, one of most shocking and disappointing moment in this election was Venka's failure in an election. Venka has contributed so much to Asian community over the last 2 years. His contributions and activities reached out not only to Japan but also to Thailand, Vietnam, India and sometimes to Korea as well. He also put so much efforts organizing FOSS4G Asia this year. And I know as a former board member how he restlessly carried out his duty as president of OSGeo. And finally he failed! I know he didn't answer to some of quesitons to nominees during the election period. Ok, its excuse however he and I was being tied up with handling a urgent issue in community. Anyway I and other Asian friends are so shocked that he was not elected! I bet other Asian members share the same feeling. The result gave the clear meaning to Asian community, "If Venka can't be a board member of OSGeo, nobody can be forever from Asia." I already saw many complaints and discouragement in Asian community. I believe regions other than Europe and NA have the rights to be reprensented failry. So, I'd like to ask new board members to fix this kind of wrong representation of board configuration by adopting new election rules.

 

2. I believe Jeff McKenna's ambiguous behaviours around election period made both him and OSGeo untrustworthy. I don't want to mention again here some of concerns over him in detail during the election. One thing I'd like to point out is his un-withdrwal from board election after disclosing the results. Nothing personal, Jeff. Actually I tried to accept and understand this situation so many times for a couple of days, but I failed to accept. We're not the children in the kindergarten! How can it be happened? The last thing I did as a former board member was approving the motion, "This board election is valid." I was able to block the motion however I approved the motion. Because I accepted his withdrawal as sincere one and trusted him. I'm feeling my good intention was being betrayed. I know I don't have any rights now to change my previous decision and I don't want to criticise someone here. New board, this case cleary has shown that there's big loophole in our election process. If OSGe can't fix it, OSGeo will lose trust and credibility. Board, you need to bear in mind that there's already bunch of sign of loosing trust from community.

 

Many mentioned that OSGeo is run by Do-ocracy. I believe the basis of Do-ocracy is recognizing of someone's work and trust. If someone's hardwork is not recognized and acknowledged fairy, who will want to jump into the matters to fix it? And if someone can't trust the organization, who wants to put their precious time and efforts to untrustworthy one?

 

If OSGeo lose the trust, it will lose everything. OSGeo is just shell.

 

Best regards,

신상희
---
Shin, Sanghee
Gaia3D, Inc. - The GeoSpatial Company
www.gaia3d.com

 


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Re: My feelings about board elections

Massimiliano Cannata
Dear all,
I think that this is democracy.

You were the board and should have thought when in power to change the election rules, but since you didn't, to me is not fare to rise concerns just the day after. Asian is just a part of the world, what about missing Africans, or south Americans or Oceanians in the past board? Was that more fare then now?

We are global and global is the election, we are just members: one member one vote. We have no closed doors. If you like, make a proposal and ask charter members to vote on that.

I regret that Venka, a dear friend, was not elected. Just because it's Venka, the history and wisdoms of OSGeo and foss4g, not because he's Asian.

Regarding Jeff I think it's time to stop spamming his reputation. Everybody should respect the person and the people that voted for him!
He also know much more of OSGeo community than you may think...

My 0.01 cent.

Long life to OSGeo.

Maxi







Il 29 ott 2017 3:55 PM, "Maria Antonia Brovelli" <[hidden email]> ha scritto:

Dear Sanghee

Many thanks for your frank email. I also want to congratulate the new friends elected but, at the same time, I share your same  considerations. I feel not confortable in a Board that is only, as you correctly pointed out, European and North American. That is not becasue I don't like the current Board Members. On the opposite, they are wonderful and I love them. But there is something wrong if we missed one part of the world which before was represented and we have not added any new one.

With respect to point 2 of your mail, I also agree with you. It seems me not serious to change ideas every other day. Also in this case, I have nothing against Jeff, whose activism, enthusiasm and help is so important for all of us, but I can simply say that I would not behave in this way. 

Writing this mail was a bit tough and I thank you, Sanghee, for starting this discussion (I imagine how difficult it was by you). Sometimes we need also to discuss about weak points in the life of the Foundation.

Best regards and love to all of you.

Maria



Pay attention to this Special Issue and see if it is of interest by you:

http://www.mdpi.com/journal/ijgi/special_issues/Geospatial_Big_Data_Urban_Studies



----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Remote Sensing
Politecnico di Milano

ISPRS WG IV/4 "Collaborative crowdsourced cloud mapping (C3M)" http://www2.isprs.org/commissions/comm4/wg4.htmlBoard of Directors of OSGeo; GeoForAll Advisory Board; NASA WorldWind Europa Challenge; SIFET Advisory Board


UN-GGIM Academic Network Deputy Chair, UN-GGIM Italy, UN OpenGIS Initiative (Chair of the Capacity Building WG)


Sol Katz Award 2015

 

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)

Tel. +39-02-23996242 - Mob. +39-328-0023867,  [hidden email][hidden email]





 




Da: Discuss <[hidden email]> per conto di Sanghee Shin <[hidden email]>
Inviato: domenica 29 ottobre 2017 15:17
A: OSGeo Discussions
Oggetto: [OSGeo-Discuss] My feelings about board elections
 

Dear All,

 

First of all I'd like to give my sincere congratulations to newly elected board members. Here I want to share some of my feelings around this board elections.

 

1. Needless to say all new board members are deserved to win the election. However as a whole, now we have all WHITE board of directors only from Europe and North America. We've talked about the importance of diversity and inclusiveness many times so far, however the reality is like this. Please don't get me wrong. I'm not writing this because of my failure in an election. Being nominated and encouragement to run the election was just great honour to me. For me as Asian, one of most shocking and disappointing moment in this election was Venka's failure in an election. Venka has contributed so much to Asian community over the last 2 years. His contributions and activities reached out not only to Japan but also to Thailand, Vietnam, India and sometimes to Korea as well. He also put so much efforts organizing FOSS4G Asia this year. And I know as a former board member how he restlessly carried out his duty as president of OSGeo. And finally he failed! I know he didn't answer to some of quesitons to nominees during the election period. Ok, its excuse however he and I was being tied up with handling a urgent issue in community. Anyway I and other Asian friends are so shocked that he was not elected! I bet other Asian members share the same feeling. The result gave the clear meaning to Asian community, "If Venka can't be a board member of OSGeo, nobody can be forever from Asia." I already saw many complaints and discouragement in Asian community. I believe regions other than Europe and NA have the rights to be reprensented failry. So, I'd like to ask new board members to fix this kind of wrong representation of board configuration by adopting new election rules.

 

2. I believe Jeff McKenna's ambiguous behaviours around election period made both him and OSGeo untrustworthy. I don't want to mention again here some of concerns over him in detail during the election. One thing I'd like to point out is his un-withdrwal from board election after disclosing the results. Nothing personal, Jeff. Actually I tried to accept and understand this situation so many times for a couple of days, but I failed to accept. We're not the children in the kindergarten! How can it be happened? The last thing I did as a former board member was approving the motion, "This board election is valid." I was able to block the motion however I approved the motion. Because I accepted his withdrawal as sincere one and trusted him. I'm feeling my good intention was being betrayed. I know I don't have any rights now to change my previous decision and I don't want to criticise someone here. New board, this case cleary has shown that there's big loophole in our election process. If OSGe can't fix it, OSGeo will lose trust and credibility. Board, you need to bear in mind that there's already bunch of sign of loosing trust from community.

 

Many mentioned that OSGeo is run by Do-ocracy. I believe the basis of Do-ocracy is recognizing of someone's work and trust. If someone's hardwork is not recognized and acknowledged fairy, who will want to jump into the matters to fix it? And if someone can't trust the organization, who wants to put their precious time and efforts to untrustworthy one?

 

If OSGeo lose the trust, it will lose everything. OSGeo is just shell.

 

Best regards,

신상희
---
Shin, Sanghee
Gaia3D, Inc. - The GeoSpatial Company
www.gaia3d.com

 


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Re: My feelings about board elections

Mark Iliffe-2
Hello All,

Democracy isn’t the only form of governance, just the one that works for us at times. 

Elections are just that, elections. The voice of the whole doesn’t not always recognise an individual’s views, but this doesn’t mean that the views of an individual aren’t important. Sanghee, you’ve raised some very interesting points and one’s that we need to consider long into the future and especially not make rash decisions as a community. 

Representation from across our community is really important and the centralisation of our committee members in two regions is not a positive one. I’d call on the board to consider what measures they could take to increase representation from across the wider community; potentially including regional representation to the board with voting limited to those from that region. This isn’t a perfect solution, but drastic times call for drastic measures.

Just my $0.02s. 

Best,

Mark

On 29 Oct 2017, at 19:36, Massimiliano Cannata <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear all,
I think that this is democracy.

You were the board and should have thought when in power to change the election rules, but since you didn't, to me is not fare to rise concerns just the day after. Asian is just a part of the world, what about missing Africans, or south Americans or Oceanians in the past board? Was that more fare then now?

We are global and global is the election, we are just members: one member one vote. We have no closed doors. If you like, make a proposal and ask charter members to vote on that.

I regret that Venka, a dear friend, was not elected. Just because it's Venka, the history and wisdoms of OSGeo and foss4g, not because he's Asian.

Regarding Jeff I think it's time to stop spamming his reputation. Everybody should respect the person and the people that voted for him!
He also know much more of OSGeo community than you may think...

My 0.01 cent.

Long life to OSGeo.

Maxi







Il 29 ott 2017 3:55 PM, "Maria Antonia Brovelli" <[hidden email]> ha scritto:

Dear Sanghee

Many thanks for your frank email. I also want to congratulate the new friends elected but, at the same time, I share your same  considerations. I feel not confortable in a Board that is only, as you correctly pointed out, European and North American. That is not becasue I don't like the current Board Members. On the opposite, they are wonderful and I love them. But there is something wrong if we missed one part of the world which before was represented and we have not added any new one.

With respect to point 2 of your mail, I also agree with you. It seems me not serious to change ideas every other day. Also in this case, I have nothing against Jeff, whose activism, enthusiasm and help is so important for all of us, but I can simply say that I would not behave in this way. 

Writing this mail was a bit tough and I thank you, Sanghee, for starting this discussion (I imagine how difficult it was by you). Sometimes we need also to discuss about weak points in the life of the Foundation.

Best regards and love to all of you.

Maria



Pay attention to this Special Issue and see if it is of interest by you:

http://www.mdpi.com/journal/ijgi/special_issues/Geospatial_Big_Data_Urban_Studies



----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Remote Sensing
Politecnico di Milano

ISPRS WG IV/4 "Collaborative crowdsourced cloud mapping (C3M)" http://www2.isprs.org/commissions/comm4/wg4.htmlBoard of Directors of OSGeo; GeoForAll Advisory Board; NASA WorldWind Europa Challenge; SIFET Advisory Board

UN-GGIM Academic Network Deputy Chair, UN-GGIM Italy, UN OpenGIS Initiative (Chair of the Capacity Building WG)

Sol Katz Award 2015

 

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)
Tel. +39-02-23996242 - Mob. +39-328-0023867,  [hidden email][hidden email]




 




Da: Discuss <[hidden email]> per conto di Sanghee Shin <[hidden email]>
Inviato: domenica 29 ottobre 2017 15:17
A: OSGeo Discussions
Oggetto: [OSGeo-Discuss] My feelings about board elections
 
Dear All,

 

First of all I'd like to give my sincere congratulations to newly elected board members. Here I want to share some of my feelings around this board elections.

 

1. Needless to say all new board members are deserved to win the election. However as a whole, now we have all WHITE board of directors only from Europe and North America. We've talked about the importance of diversity and inclusiveness many times so far, however the reality is like this. Please don't get me wrong. I'm not writing this because of my failure in an election. Being nominated and encouragement to run the election was just great honour to me. For me as Asian, one of most shocking and disappointing moment in this election was Venka's failure in an election. Venka has contributed so much to Asian community over the last 2 years. His contributions and activities reached out not only to Japan but also to Thailand, Vietnam, India and sometimes to Korea as well. He also put so much efforts organizing FOSS4G Asia this year. And I know as a former board member how he restlessly carried out his duty as president of OSGeo. And finally he failed! I know he didn't answer to some of quesitons to nominees during the election period. Ok, its excuse however he and I was being tied up with handling a urgent issue in community. Anyway I and other Asian friends are so shocked that he was not elected! I bet other Asian members share the same feeling. The result gave the clear meaning to Asian community, "If Venka can't be a board member of OSGeo, nobody can be forever from Asia." I already saw many complaints and discouragement in Asian community. I believe regions other than Europe and NA have the rights to be reprensented failry. So, I'd like to ask new board members to fix this kind of wrong representation of board configuration by adopting new election rules.

 

2. I believe Jeff McKenna's ambiguous behaviours around election period made both him and OSGeo untrustworthy. I don't want to mention again here some of concerns over him in detail during the election. One thing I'd like to point out is his un-withdrwal from board election after disclosing the results. Nothing personal, Jeff. Actually I tried to accept and understand this situation so many times for a couple of days, but I failed to accept. We're not the children in the kindergarten! How can it be happened? The last thing I did as a former board member was approving the motion, "This board election is valid." I was able to block the motion however I approved the motion. Because I accepted his withdrawal as sincere one and trusted him. I'm feeling my good intention was being betrayed. I know I don't have any rights now to change my previous decision and I don't want to criticise someone here. New board, this case cleary has shown that there's big loophole in our election process. If OSGe can't fix it, OSGeo will lose trust and credibility. Board, you need to bear in mind that there's already bunch of sign of loosing trust from community.

 

Many mentioned that OSGeo is run by Do-ocracy. I believe the basis of Do-ocracy is recognizing of someone's work and trust. If someone's hardwork is not recognized and acknowledged fairy, who will want to jump into the matters to fix it? And if someone can't trust the organization, who wants to put their precious time and efforts to untrustworthy one?

 

If OSGeo lose the trust, it will lose everything. OSGeo is just shell.

 

Best regards,
신상희
---
Shin, Sanghee
Gaia3D, Inc. - The GeoSpatial Company
www.gaia3d.com

 


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Re: My feelings about board elections

jody.garnett
In reply to this post by Sanghee Shin
Sanghee:

I have seen online some of the reaction to the lack of regional diversity, and I thank you for bringing that to the email list for discussion. 

During the candidate questions there were two related questions raised: 
- I felt, and still feel, that the board can be selected through our election process. However I admit I have underestimated the response, and am really unhappy if members of the the community from asia and other regions feels unrepresented. I view the board as representing our organization as a whole, not tied to specific regions. My understanding is the local chapter approach is used to represent regions (and in this I feel under represented in Canada where our own local chapters are dormant.) What I ask of myself, and all all the elected board members, is to listen to regional challenges and work with our members to pursue open source everywhere.
- The second idea was if we could make more use of our voting members. Tuning into the discussion list and voting in these elections is already a large commitment which has been agreed to. Seeing this discussion I finally have an answer for an issue which I would feel compelled to seek out approval for our voting members - namely if any change is proposed to our election process. While I can throw out some wild ideas (board candidates put forth from regional local chapters) I cannot think of a way to make them work - especially when to be effective many local chapters are incorporated in their region to better advocate for open source and influence regional governments.

I do understand, appreciate and celebrate all the qualities you list for Venka's service to our organization. I also hold your own service in high regard - especially when you are willing to work through difficult topics with no clear answer. I would ask that both you, venka and our osgeo community in asia take heart in the work that has been accomplished, work that is currently underway, and work that is ahead of us all.

With respect Jeff McKenna's ambiguous actions, withdrawing from the election, and then withdrawing his withdrawal after the votes were counted. I concur it paints our organization in an inconsistent light.

During the IRC meeting (prior to election results being announced ) the board went over several options for how to handle the election process; considering if it had been disrupted (it had) and if disruption made the election process invalid. The reasoning was that a candidate may not be in a position to serve, even if elected. In an extreme case voting in a candidate who has died. During the meeting we looked into how to handle an election which resulted in a vacancy. The net result is we would form a board that included a vacancy, and one of the first actions of the board would be to replace the vacancy (our bylaws permit this). We had a precedent with the board filled a vacancy by asking candidates from the election if they would be willing to serve out the remaining period that had opened up. This way it would be the board acting to fill a vacancy, rather than asking the CRO to make a special case.

But I admit we were most concerned about respecting Jeff's wishes to withdraw, and about respecting the work done by the CRO, than the possibility that Jeff would change his mind about serving.

I think our organization will need to work on trust. Jeff's email cites the "support of the community" as providing him strength. I hope that the strength of all the community members can can support the foundation in earning that trust.

--
Jody Garnett

On 29 October 2017 at 07:17, Sanghee Shin <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear All,

 

First of all I'd like to give my sincere congratulations to newly elected board members. Here I want to share some of my feelings around this board elections.

 

1. Needless to say all new board members are deserved to win the election. However as a whole, now we have all WHITE board of directors only from Europe and North America. We've talked about the importance of diversity and inclusiveness many times so far, however the reality is like this. Please don't get me wrong. I'm not writing this because of my failure in an election. Being nominated and encouragement to run the election was just great honour to me. For me as Asian, one of most shocking and disappointing moment in this election was Venka's failure in an election. Venka has contributed so much to Asian community over the last 2 years. His contributions and activities reached out not only to Japan but also to Thailand, Vietnam, India and sometimes to Korea as well. He also put so much efforts organizing FOSS4G Asia this year. And I know as a former board member how he restlessly carried out his duty as president of OSGeo. And finally he failed! I know he didn't answer to some of quesitons to nominees during the election period. Ok, its excuse however he and I was being tied up with handling a urgent issue in community. Anyway I and other Asian friends are so shocked that he was not elected! I bet other Asian members share the same feeling. The result gave the clear meaning to Asian community, "If Venka can't be a board member of OSGeo, nobody can be forever from Asia." I already saw many complaints and discouragement in Asian community. I believe regions other than Europe and NA have the rights to be reprensented failry. So, I'd like to ask new board members to fix this kind of wrong representation of board configuration by adopting new election rules.

 

2. I believe Jeff McKenna's ambiguous behaviours around election period made both him and OSGeo untrustworthy. I don't want to mention again here some of concerns over him in detail during the election. One thing I'd like to point out is his un-withdrwal from board election after disclosing the results. Nothing personal, Jeff. Actually I tried to accept and understand this situation so many times for a couple of days, but I failed to accept. We're not the children in the kindergarten! How can it be happened? The last thing I did as a former board member was approving the motion, "This board election is valid." I was able to block the motion however I approved the motion. Because I accepted his withdrawal as sincere one and trusted him. I'm feeling my good intention was being betrayed. I know I don't have any rights now to change my previous decision and I don't want to criticise someone here. New board, this case cleary has shown that there's big loophole in our election process. If OSGe can't fix it, OSGeo will lose trust and credibility. Board, you need to bear in mind that there's already bunch of sign of loosing trust from community.

 

Many mentioned that OSGeo is run by Do-ocracy. I believe the basis of Do-ocracy is recognizing of someone's work and trust. If someone's hardwork is not recognized and acknowledged fairy, who will want to jump into the matters to fix it? And if someone can't trust the organization, who wants to put their precious time and efforts to untrustworthy one?

 

If OSGeo lose the trust, it will lose everything. OSGeo is just shell.

 

Best regards,

신상희
---
Shin, Sanghee
Gaia3D, Inc. - The GeoSpatial Company
www.gaia3d.com

 


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Re: My feelings about board elections

ldesousa
In reply to this post by Sanghee Shin
Dear Sanghee,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. As an European I find it useful to get these "showers of reality" everyone once in a while; it is easy to forget how fortunate one may be for being born in this part of the world. I trust the elected board and the OSGeo community at large to find the right mechanisms to address the issue of regional representativeness. 

I have been an OSGeo member for little over an year, therefore my experience on board elections is limited. However, I do not feel this election compromises my trust on OSGeo or its executive organs. Both the CRO and board were able to deal with inordinate stress posed on the election process. That to me is a sign of maturity, neither OSGeo nor the election process are vulnerable to individual actions or moods.

Regards.

--
Luís Moreira de Sousa
Molenweg 4
6871 CW Renkum
The Netherlands
Phone: +351 92 653 57 23
RingID: ring:7ca91d83f4f9dec82fec9f1144b8e5c1ef2a110c


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] My feelings about board elections
Local Time: October 29, 2017 3:17 PM
UTC Time: October 29, 2017 2:17 PM
To: OSGeo Discussions <[hidden email]>

Dear All,

 

First of all I'd like to give my sincere congratulations to newly elected board members. Here I want to share some of my feelings around this board elections.

 

1. Needless to say all new board members are deserved to win the election. However as a whole, now we have all WHITE board of directors only from Europe and North America. We've talked about the importance of diversity and inclusiveness many times so far, however the reality is like this. Please don't get me wrong. I'm not writing this because of my failure in an election. Being nominated and encouragement to run the election was just great honour to me. For me as Asian, one of most shocking and disappointing moment in this election was Venka's failure in an election. Venka has contributed so much to Asian community over the last 2 years. His contributions and activities reached out not only to Japan but also to Thailand, Vietnam, India and sometimes to Korea as well. He also put so much efforts organizing FOSS4G Asia this year. And I know as a former board member how he restlessly carried out his duty as president of OSGeo. And finally he failed! I know he didn't answer to some of quesitons to nominees during the election period. Ok, its excuse however he and I was being tied up with handling a urgent issue in community. Anyway I and other Asian friends are so shocked that he was not elected! I bet other Asian members share the same feeling. The result gave the clear meaning to Asian community, "If Venka can't be a board member of OSGeo, nobody can be forever from Asia." I already saw many complaints and discouragement in Asian community. I believe regions other than Europe and NA have the rights to be reprensented failry. So, I'd like to ask new board members to fix this kind of wrong representation of board configuration by adopting new election rules.

 

2. I believe Jeff McKenna's ambiguous behaviours around election period made both him and OSGeo untrustworthy. I don't want to mention again here some of concerns over him in detail during the election. One thing I'd like to point out is his un-withdrwal from board election after disclosing the results. Nothing personal, Jeff. Actually I tried to accept and understand this situation so many times for a couple of days, but I failed to accept. We're not the children in the kindergarten! How can it be happened? The last thing I did as a former board member was approving the motion, "This board election is valid." I was able to block the motion however I approved the motion. Because I accepted his withdrawal as sincere one and trusted him. I'm feeling my good intention was being betrayed. I know I don't have any rights now to change my previous decision and I don't want to criticise someone here. New board, this case cleary has shown that there's big loophole in our election process. If OSGe can't fix it, OSGeo will lose trust and credibility. Board, you need to bear in mind that there's already bunch of sign of loosing trust from community.

 

Many mentioned that OSGeo is run by Do-ocracy. I believe the basis of Do-ocracy is recognizing of someone's work and trust. If someone's hardwork is not recognized and acknowledged fairy, who will want to jump into the matters to fix it? And if someone can't trust the organization, who wants to put their precious time and efforts to untrustworthy one?

 

If OSGeo lose the trust, it will lose everything. OSGeo is just shell.

 

Best regards,

신상희
---
Shin, Sanghee
Gaia3D, Inc. - The GeoSpatial Company
www.gaia3d.com

 



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Re: My feelings about board elections

margherita
In reply to this post by Sanghee Shin
Dear Shangee, All,

I'm sorry that some important parts of the world result under-represented. I highly value diversity and I'm sure we're loosing something here. I also recognize that there weren't many candidates from Asia, none from Africa and other parts of the world, and there weren't many candidates as an absolute number. I'm only suggesting that if you or others realize that their region is under represented, should propose more candidates to have higher possibilities of being represented. Truth is, that accepting to be candidate for the board is a great act of commitment to the community that not everyone is ready to take, and I believe this fact was under valued in some judgments that came towards Jeff. Besides the fact that the board already expressed the will to accept the result of the elections, before knowing the outcome, I think is disrespectful to continue on the line of undermining the election result. One proposal that I like from Jeff 's manifesto is to give more responsibilities to charter members, and maybe this will result in a lighter burden for the members of the board and attract more people willing to take this responsibility in the future.
I would like to thank all the candidates and to wish good luck to the new board.

Regards,

On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 3:17 PM, Sanghee Shin <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear All,

 

First of all I'd like to give my sincere congratulations to newly elected board members. Here I want to share some of my feelings around this board elections.

 

1. Needless to say all new board members are deserved to win the election. However as a whole, now we have all WHITE board of directors only from Europe and North America. We've talked about the importance of diversity and inclusiveness many times so far, however the reality is like this. Please don't get me wrong. I'm not writing this because of my failure in an election. Being nominated and encouragement to run the election was just great honour to me. For me as Asian, one of most shocking and disappointing moment in this election was Venka's failure in an election. Venka has contributed so much to Asian community over the last 2 years. His contributions and activities reached out not only to Japan but also to Thailand, Vietnam, India and sometimes to Korea as well. He also put so much efforts organizing FOSS4G Asia this year. And I know as a former board member how he restlessly carried out his duty as president of OSGeo. And finally he failed! I know he didn't answer to some of quesitons to nominees during the election period. Ok, its excuse however he and I was being tied up with handling a urgent issue in community. Anyway I and other Asian friends are so shocked that he was not elected! I bet other Asian members share the same feeling. The result gave the clear meaning to Asian community, "If Venka can't be a board member of OSGeo, nobody can be forever from Asia." I already saw many complaints and discouragement in Asian community. I believe regions other than Europe and NA have the rights to be reprensented failry. So, I'd like to ask new board members to fix this kind of wrong representation of board configuration by adopting new election rules.

 

2. I believe Jeff McKenna's ambiguous behaviours around election period made both him and OSGeo untrustworthy. I don't want to mention again here some of concerns over him in detail during the election. One thing I'd like to point out is his un-withdrwal from board election after disclosing the results. Nothing personal, Jeff. Actually I tried to accept and understand this situation so many times for a couple of days, but I failed to accept. We're not the children in the kindergarten! How can it be happened? The last thing I did as a former board member was approving the motion, "This board election is valid." I was able to block the motion however I approved the motion. Because I accepted his withdrawal as sincere one and trusted him. I'm feeling my good intention was being betrayed. I know I don't have any rights now to change my previous decision and I don't want to criticise someone here. New board, this case cleary has shown that there's big loophole in our election process. If OSGe can't fix it, OSGeo will lose trust and credibility. Board, you need to bear in mind that there's already bunch of sign of loosing trust from community.

 

Many mentioned that OSGeo is run by Do-ocracy. I believe the basis of Do-ocracy is recognizing of someone's work and trust. If someone's hardwork is not recognized and acknowledged fairy, who will want to jump into the matters to fix it? And if someone can't trust the organization, who wants to put their precious time and efforts to untrustworthy one?

 

If OSGeo lose the trust, it will lose everything. OSGeo is just shell.

 

Best regards,

신상희
---
Shin, Sanghee
Gaia3D, Inc. - The GeoSpatial Company
www.gaia3d.com

 


_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
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--
Margherita Di Leo

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Re: My feelings about board elections

Volker Mische
In reply to this post by Sanghee Shin
Hi all,

I've a question in regards to how important it is to be a board member
if you represent the OSGeo.

I've never represented the OSGeo outside a FOSS4G and not outside of the
western world. Hence I don't know how important it is to have some
official title if you talk to institutions/agencies/governments. Does it
make a difference?

Do you need to be a board member or could it also be a role in your
local chapter?

Cheers,
  Volker


On 10/29/2017 03:17 PM, Sanghee Shin wrote:

> Dear All,
>
>  
>
> First of all I'd like to give my sincere congratulations to newly
> elected board members. Here I want to share some of my feelings around
> this board elections.
>
>  
>
> 1. Needless to say all new board members are deserved to win the
> election. However as a whole, now we have all WHITE board of directors
> only from Europe and North America. We've talked about the importance of
> diversity and inclusiveness many times so far, however the reality is
> like this. Please don't get me wrong. I'm not writing this because of my
> failure in an election. Being nominated and encouragement to run the
> election was just great honour to me. For me as Asian, one of most
> shocking and disappointing moment in this election was Venka's failure
> in an election. Venka has contributed so much to Asian community over
> the last 2 years. His contributions and activities reached out not only
> to Japan but also to Thailand, Vietnam, India and sometimes to Korea as
> well. He also put so much efforts organizing FOSS4G Asia this year. And
> I know as a former board member how he restlessly carried out his duty
> as president of OSGeo. And finally he failed! I know he didn't answer to
> some of quesitons to nominees during the election period. Ok, it’s
> excuse however he and I was being tied up with handling a urgent issue
> in community. Anyway I and other Asian friends are so shocked that he
> was not elected! I bet other Asian members share the same feeling. The
> result gave the clear meaning to Asian community, "If Venka can't be a
> board member of OSGeo, nobody can be forever from Asia." I already saw
> many complaints and discouragement in Asian community. I believe regions
> other than Europe and NA have the rights to be reprensented failry. So,
> I'd like to ask new board members to fix this kind of wrong
> representation of board configuration by adopting new election rules.
>
>  
>
> 2. I believe Jeff McKenna's ambiguous behaviours around election period
> made both him and OSGeo untrustworthy. I don't want to mention again
> here some of concerns over him in detail during the election. One thing
> I'd like to point out is his un-withdrwal from board election after
> disclosing the results. Nothing personal, Jeff. Actually I tried to
> accept and understand this situation so many times for a couple of days,
> but I failed to accept. We're not the children in the kindergarten! How
> can it be happened? The last thing I did as a former board member was
> approving the motion, "This board election is valid." I was able to
> block the motion however I approved the motion. Because I accepted his
> withdrawal as sincere one and trusted him. I'm feeling my good intention
> was being betrayed. I know I don't have any rights now to change my
> previous decision and I don't want to criticise someone here. New board,
> this case cleary has shown that there's big loophole in our election
> process. If OSGe can't fix it, OSGeo will lose trust and credibility.
> Board, you need to bear in mind that there's already bunch of sign of
> loosing trust from community.
>
>  
>
> Many mentioned that OSGeo is run by Do-ocracy. I believe the basis of
> Do-ocracy is recognizing of someone's work and trust. If someone's
> hardwork is not recognized and acknowledged fairy, who will want to jump
> into the matters to fix it? And if someone can't trust the organization,
> who wants to put their precious time and efforts to untrustworthy one?
>
>  
>
> If OSGeo lose the trust, it will lose everything. OSGeo is just shell.
>
>  
>
> Best regards,
>
> 신상희
> ---
> Shin, Sanghee
> Gaia3D, Inc. - The GeoSpatial Company
> www.gaia3d.com
>
>  
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
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Re: My feelings about board elections

Jürgen E. Fischer
In reply to this post by Sanghee Shin
Hi Sanghee,

On Sun, 29. Oct 2017 at 23:17:53 +0900, Sanghee Shin wrote:
> One thing I'd like to point out is his un-withdrwal from board election after
> disclosing the results.

I also think the mid-election withdrawal was a very bad move.

But the un-withdrawal is only consequent.  We handled the withdrawal as it
never happened.  Otherwise the election would have needed to be restarted
without Jeff on the ballot.

Luckily there's no visible impact to the vote because of this and Jeff got
elected.  Otherwise people who voted for him would feel that their vote would
have been voided.  And that would also be the case, if Jeff wouldn't accept
the election now.

But the missing impact of the withdrawl to election raised the question how
much reach this list has - apparently a very low one.


Jürgen

--
Jürgen E. Fischer           norBIT GmbH             Tel. +49-4931-918175-31
Dipl.-Inf. (FH)             Rheinstraße 13          Fax. +49-4931-918175-50
Software Engineer           D-26506 Norden             http://www.norbit.de

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Re: My feelings about board elections

jmckenna
Administrator
In reply to this post by Sanghee Shin
Hi Sanghee,

Thanks for your well written and honest message.

To your first point, I fully agree with you.  We have worked so hard
early on to make sure that OSGeo is a representation of all members from
all around the world, and we now have a NA-Europe Board.  Venka's and
your efforts to represent OSGeo is hard to put into words, as it is so
important.  Venka is the glue that keeps us all together and motivated
to share.

I think we can use this election to learn from it, to make something
positive for the foundation.  We saw a lot of things happen, and a lot
of people volunteered to help make the elections happen - quite a
shocking amount of volunteer time was required this year.

Could this election be the driver we need to move to a Board that is
represented by Charter members from specific geographic regions?
Absolutely. I think we need a champion to drive that, put a formal
process proposal on the wiki, and bring that to the Charter members for
comments.

In the short term our goal could be to get the Charter members more
involved at the Board level, to put the difficult decisions to the
shoulders of the Charter members, and the OSGeo Board members just
manage this.  The election process is a good place to start, while it is
so fresh in everyone's minds.

To your second point: it is difficult to be put through such an
aggressive campaign against you, in public.  It is something that I
wouldn't wish on anyone, and I hope we can avoid putting another OSGeo
volunteer through that again.

I think we can use this whole election and all agree on a proper
process, to make sure that all of OSGeo is represented.  Now is a great
time to start working on this all together.  Let's learn from this.

-jeff






On 2017-10-29 11:17 AM, Sanghee Shin wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> First of all I'd like to give my sincere congratulations to newly
> elected board members. Here I want to share some of my feelings around
> this board elections.
>
> 1. Needless to say all new board members are deserved to win the
> election. However as a whole, now we have all WHITE board of directors
> only from Europe and North America. We've talked about the importance of
> diversity and inclusiveness many times so far, however the reality is
> like this. Please don't get me wrong. I'm not writing this because of my
> failure in an election. Being nominated and encouragement to run the
> election was just great honour to me. For me as Asian, one of most
> shocking and disappointing moment in this election was Venka's failure
> in an election. Venka has contributed so much to Asian community over
> the last 2 years. His contributions and activities reached out not only
> to Japan but also to Thailand, Vietnam, India and sometimes to Korea as
> well. He also put so much efforts organizing FOSS4G Asia this year. And
> I know as a former board member how he restlessly carried out his duty
> as president of OSGeo. And finally he failed! I know he didn't answer to
> some of quesitons to nominees during the election period. Ok, it’s
> excuse however he and I was being tied up with handling a urgent issue
> in community. Anyway I and other Asian friends are so shocked that he
> was not elected! I bet other Asian members share the same feeling. The
> result gave the clear meaning to Asian community, "If Venka can't be a
> board member of OSGeo, nobody can be forever from Asia." I already saw
> many complaints and discouragement in Asian community. I believe regions
> other than Europe and NA have the rights to be reprensented failry. So,
> I'd like to ask new board members to fix this kind of wrong
> representation of board configuration by adopting new election rules.
>
> 2. I believe Jeff McKenna's ambiguous behaviours around election period
> made both him and OSGeo untrustworthy. I don't want to mention again
> here some of concerns over him in detail during the election. One thing
> I'd like to point out is his un-withdrwal from board election after
> disclosing the results. Nothing personal, Jeff. Actually I tried to
> accept and understand this situation so many times for a couple of days,
> but I failed to accept. We're not the children in the kindergarten! How
> can it be happened? The last thing I did as a former board member was
> approving the motion, "This board election is valid." I was able to
> block the motion however I approved the motion. Because I accepted his
> withdrawal as sincere one and trusted him. I'm feeling my good intention
> was being betrayed. I know I don't have any rights now to change my
> previous decision and I don't want to criticise someone here. New board,
> this case cleary has shown that there's big loophole in our election
> process. If OSGe can't fix it, OSGeo will lose trust and credibility.
> Board, you need to bear in mind that there's already bunch of sign of
> loosing trust from community.
>
> Many mentioned that OSGeo is run by Do-ocracy. I believe the basis of
> Do-ocracy is recognizing of someone's work and trust. If someone's
> hardwork is not recognized and acknowledged fairy, who will want to jump
> into the matters to fix it? And if someone can't trust the organization,
> who wants to put their precious time and efforts to untrustworthy one?
>
> If OSGeo lose the trust, it will lose everything. OSGeo is just shell.
>
> Best regards,
>
> 신상희
> ---
> Shin, Sanghee
> Gaia3D, Inc. - The GeoSpatial Company
> www.gaia3d.com
>
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Re: My feelings about board elections

Sergio Acosta y Lara
+ 1 for Sanghee (mostly):

I will try to make my contribution because it is an issue that concerns me even before being elected as a charter member.

Personally I do not like that there are no representatives outside of Europe and the USA in the Board, but... it is a fact. And this happens for many reasons (not only inside OSGeo but in most international organizations). It is worth asking, for example, why I am the first (after 10 responses) that responds from outside these regions. And this proportion will probably be maintained, if the discussion advances. I think that this predominance of a "WHITE Directory only from Europe and North America" ​​will remain unless the members from "outside" begin to make their voice heard. And not by participation fees that are not supported by firm foundations. That is why we created the GeoForAll Iberoamerica group, as a space to start raising the voice of this part of the world (I feel more "GeoForAll" than "OSGeo" maybe for these reasons; hopefully we can get the idea to be copied by others). I even think that OSGeo has more reason to exist outside the regions most represented in this new Board (I mean Asia, Africa, Latin America) but to achieve a more equitable representation, much work must be done in several ways. And it is those of these regions who have to start raising their voices. Organize and claim for more spaces. It's not worth only complaining but acting. We need to understand why things are the way they are. For instance the great act of commitment to the community of being a member of the Board probably won't mean the same to an European or American (from USA ;-)) than to an African (from Malawi, for instance) because he or she will surely has other -bigger, more urgent- worries. How do we change this? It's not easy. But not impossible.

My 0.002 cents

Sergio Acosta y Lara
Departamento de Geomática
Dirección Nacional de Topografía
Ministerio de Transporte y Obras Públicas
URUGUAY
(598)29157933 ints. 20329/20330
http://geoportal.mtop.gub.uy/

________________________________________
De: Discuss <[hidden email]> en nombre de Jeff McKenna <[hidden email]>
Enviado: lunes, 30 de octubre de 2017 12:01
Para: [hidden email]
Asunto: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] My feelings about board elections

Hi Sanghee,

Thanks for your well written and honest message.

To your first point, I fully agree with you.  We have worked so hard
early on to make sure that OSGeo is a representation of all members from
all around the world, and we now have a NA-Europe Board.  Venka's and
your efforts to represent OSGeo is hard to put into words, as it is so
important.  Venka is the glue that keeps us all together and motivated
to share.

I think we can use this election to learn from it, to make something
positive for the foundation.  We saw a lot of things happen, and a lot
of people volunteered to help make the elections happen - quite a
shocking amount of volunteer time was required this year.

Could this election be the driver we need to move to a Board that is
represented by Charter members from specific geographic regions?
Absolutely. I think we need a champion to drive that, put a formal
process proposal on the wiki, and bring that to the Charter members for
comments.

In the short term our goal could be to get the Charter members more
involved at the Board level, to put the difficult decisions to the
shoulders of the Charter members, and the OSGeo Board members just
manage this.  The election process is a good place to start, while it is
so fresh in everyone's minds.

To your second point: it is difficult to be put through such an
aggressive campaign against you, in public.  It is something that I
wouldn't wish on anyone, and I hope we can avoid putting another OSGeo
volunteer through that again.

I think we can use this whole election and all agree on a proper
process, to make sure that all of OSGeo is represented.  Now is a great
time to start working on this all together.  Let's learn from this.

-jeff






On 2017-10-29 11:17 AM, Sanghee Shin wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> First of all I'd like to give my sincere congratulations to newly
> elected board members. Here I want to share some of my feelings around
> this board elections.
>
> 1. Needless to say all new board members are deserved to win the
> election. However as a whole, now we have all WHITE board of directors
> only from Europe and North America. We've talked about the importance of
> diversity and inclusiveness many times so far, however the reality is
> like this. Please don't get me wrong. I'm not writing this because of my
> failure in an election. Being nominated and encouragement to run the
> election was just great honour to me. For me as Asian, one of most
> shocking and disappointing moment in this election was Venka's failure
> in an election. Venka has contributed so much to Asian community over
> the last 2 years. His contributions and activities reached out not only
> to Japan but also to Thailand, Vietnam, India and sometimes to Korea as
> well. He also put so much efforts organizing FOSS4G Asia this year. And
> I know as a former board member how he restlessly carried out his duty
> as president of OSGeo. And finally he failed! I know he didn't answer to
> some of quesitons to nominees during the election period. Ok, it’s
> excuse however he and I was being tied up with handling a urgent issue
> in community. Anyway I and other Asian friends are so shocked that he
> was not elected! I bet other Asian members share the same feeling. The
> result gave the clear meaning to Asian community, "If Venka can't be a
> board member of OSGeo, nobody can be forever from Asia." I already saw
> many complaints and discouragement in Asian community. I believe regions
> other than Europe and NA have the rights to be reprensented failry. So,
> I'd like to ask new board members to fix this kind of wrong
> representation of board configuration by adopting new election rules.
>
> 2. I believe Jeff McKenna's ambiguous behaviours around election period
> made both him and OSGeo untrustworthy. I don't want to mention again
> here some of concerns over him in detail during the election. One thing
> I'd like to point out is his un-withdrwal from board election after
> disclosing the results. Nothing personal, Jeff. Actually I tried to
> accept and understand this situation so many times for a couple of days,
> but I failed to accept. We're not the children in the kindergarten! How
> can it be happened? The last thing I did as a former board member was
> approving the motion, "This board election is valid." I was able to
> block the motion however I approved the motion. Because I accepted his
> withdrawal as sincere one and trusted him. I'm feeling my good intention
> was being betrayed. I know I don't have any rights now to change my
> previous decision and I don't want to criticise someone here. New board,
> this case cleary has shown that there's big loophole in our election
> process. If OSGe can't fix it, OSGeo will lose trust and credibility.
> Board, you need to bear in mind that there's already bunch of sign of
> loosing trust from community.
>
> Many mentioned that OSGeo is run by Do-ocracy. I believe the basis of
> Do-ocracy is recognizing of someone's work and trust. If someone's
> hardwork is not recognized and acknowledged fairy, who will want to jump
> into the matters to fix it? And if someone can't trust the organization,
> who wants to put their precious time and efforts to untrustworthy one?
>
> If OSGeo lose the trust, it will lose everything. OSGeo is just shell.
>
> Best regards,
>
> 신상희
> ---
> Shin, Sanghee
> Gaia3D, Inc. - The GeoSpatial Company
> www.gaia3d.com
>
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Re: My feelings about board elections

Ian Turton
I've spent much of the day thinking that I will just let this thread pass me by as I don't have the physical or emotional energy to jump into this. But I'm going to fire off an email because I'm getting angry!

I would like everyone to stop denigrating our new board before they have done anything, or even had a chance to meet. I have to object to the assumption that a board member will only act in the interests of their region or that we the charter members make our choices on race, gender or regional preferences. I think this runs our organisation down. There is no reason that any region will not get a fair hearing from the board no matter how it is geographically distributed.

Now I would like to make it clear that I voted based on my knowledge of people (and personalities) and the **work** they do on open source projects or groups that I use. So if you would like my vote to go to your region please start building software or communities that are seen to be useful. 


I would really like this to be the year that we see a lot more building and a lot less whinging on this (and other) lists.

Ian 
(one of the Charter members who no one voted for)

PS - can people please observe some basic netiquette when replying to emails, trim the to list and delete the old parts of the message.
 
--
Ian Turton

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Re: My feelings about board elections

jmckenna
Administrator
In reply to this post by Volker Mische
Hi Volker,

I spoke with Vicky this afternoon and even just the nomination for the
Board is beginning to open doors for her locally, to help spread OSGeo
to more audiences.  Yes it can help, but I can see your point.  I think
the new formal OSGeo-Europe initiative is a good example to examine,
where a formal structure is in place now, to use for times when formal
support or representation must be shown, and yet not need the OSGeo
Board for its support.

-jeff



On 2017-10-30 7:22 AM, Volker Mische wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I've a question in regards to how important it is to be a board member
> if you represent the OSGeo.
>
> I've never represented the OSGeo outside a FOSS4G and not outside of the
> western world. Hence I don't know how important it is to have some
> official title if you talk to institutions/agencies/governments. Does it
> make a difference?
>
> Do you need to be a board member or could it also be a role in your
> local chapter?
>
> Cheers,
>    Volker
>
>
> On 10/29/2017 03:17 PM, Sanghee Shin wrote:
>> Dear All,
>>
>>  
>>
>> First of all I'd like to give my sincere congratulations to newly
>> elected board members. Here I want to share some of my feelings around
>> this board elections.
>>
>>  
>>
>> 1. Needless to say all new board members are deserved to win the
>> election. However as a whole, now we have all WHITE board of directors
>> only from Europe and North America. We've talked about the importance of
>> diversity and inclusiveness many times so far, however the reality is
>> like this. Please don't get me wrong. I'm not writing this because of my
>> failure in an election. Being nominated and encouragement to run the
>> election was just great honour to me. For me as Asian, one of most
>> shocking and disappointing moment in this election was Venka's failure
>> in an election. Venka has contributed so much to Asian community over
>> the last 2 years. His contributions and activities reached out not only
>> to Japan but also to Thailand, Vietnam, India and sometimes to Korea as
>> well. He also put so much efforts organizing FOSS4G Asia this year. And
>> I know as a former board member how he restlessly carried out his duty
>> as president of OSGeo. And finally he failed! I know he didn't answer to
>> some of quesitons to nominees during the election period. Ok, it’s
>> excuse however he and I was being tied up with handling a urgent issue
>> in community. Anyway I and other Asian friends are so shocked that he
>> was not elected! I bet other Asian members share the same feeling. The
>> result gave the clear meaning to Asian community, "If Venka can't be a
>> board member of OSGeo, nobody can be forever from Asia." I already saw
>> many complaints and discouragement in Asian community. I believe regions
>> other than Europe and NA have the rights to be reprensented failry. So,
>> I'd like to ask new board members to fix this kind of wrong
>> representation of board configuration by adopting new election rules.
>>
>>  
>>
>> 2. I believe Jeff McKenna's ambiguous behaviours around election period
>> made both him and OSGeo untrustworthy. I don't want to mention again
>> here some of concerns over him in detail during the election. One thing
>> I'd like to point out is his un-withdrwal from board election after
>> disclosing the results. Nothing personal, Jeff. Actually I tried to
>> accept and understand this situation so many times for a couple of days,
>> but I failed to accept. We're not the children in the kindergarten! How
>> can it be happened? The last thing I did as a former board member was
>> approving the motion, "This board election is valid." I was able to
>> block the motion however I approved the motion. Because I accepted his
>> withdrawal as sincere one and trusted him. I'm feeling my good intention
>> was being betrayed. I know I don't have any rights now to change my
>> previous decision and I don't want to criticise someone here. New board,
>> this case cleary has shown that there's big loophole in our election
>> process. If OSGe can't fix it, OSGeo will lose trust and credibility.
>> Board, you need to bear in mind that there's already bunch of sign of
>> loosing trust from community.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Many mentioned that OSGeo is run by Do-ocracy. I believe the basis of
>> Do-ocracy is recognizing of someone's work and trust. If someone's
>> hardwork is not recognized and acknowledged fairy, who will want to jump
>> into the matters to fix it? And if someone can't trust the organization,
>> who wants to put their precious time and efforts to untrustworthy one?
>>
>>  
>>
>> If OSGeo lose the trust, it will lose everything. OSGeo is just shell.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> 신상희
>> ---
>> Shin, Sanghee
>> Gaia3D, Inc. - The GeoSpatial Company
>> www.gaia3d.com
>>
>>  
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Re: My feelings about board elections

Sanghee Shin

Hello All,

 

Thanks for your comments and sharing your thoughts through private email and this list. At first I should admit that my tone was somewhat aggressive and tough. Sorry for that.

 

For the first point, I just wanted to have OSGeo better represent regional distributions. If new board members agree with this and can fix it, that’s ok. I believe I raised proper concern on this.

 

For the second point, I’m impressed with other’s tolerant and practical approach. Just like I’m asking you that there’s another region outside of Europe and NA, I should admit that there’s another culture different from mine. I still can’t understand the situation however there’s something I should accept without understanding. If board can set up new board election process, that will be great.

 

Unlike many other’s speculation, Jeff is one of my best friend in this community. So, it was so painful for me to have written down something against him.

 

Good luck to all.

 

Regards,

신상희
---
Shin, Sanghee
Gaia3D, Inc. - The GeoSpatial Company
www.gaia3d.com

 


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Re: My feelings about board elections

Ravi Kumar-3
In reply to this post by Sanghee Shin
Hi List and Board,

Sanghee's mail, is on the spot. +1 to Sanghee.

Let us all unitedly request the Board (new+Old) alike to discuss what lead to this situation.
On one hand am Happy that the most suitable people have filled the vacancies in the board. Bot on the other..
certain holes are exposed in OSGeo Armour.
You may correct it for future. But the past, you cannot set it aside.

It is only fair that, we might consider all that is possible to remove any glitches, let alone re-run the election If so desired.

Will be happy to see those who have let 'The Clouds In Motion'... and those 'Giving us a good harvest of GRASS'.. speak out too.

Or it will become part of Statistics.. 'Back in Nov 2017, it happened.. A CRO or Co-CRO was inadvertently ran for the Board.. Only to resign..
and Only to win.. as there was no rule, to make it right'..
Some thing with our collective wisdom has to be done to solve THIS SITUATION..

Ravi Kumar

On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 7:47 PM, Sanghee Shin <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear All,

 

First of all I'd like to give my sincere congratulations to newly elected board members. Here I want to share some of my feelings around this board elections.

 

1. Needless to say all new board members are deserved to win the election. However as a whole, now we have all WHITE board of directors only from Europe and North America. We've talked about the importance of diversity and inclusiveness many times so far, however the reality is like this. Please don't get me wrong. I'm not writing this because of my failure in an election. Being nominated and encouragement to run the election was just great honour to me. For me as Asian, one of most shocking and disappointing moment in this election was Venka's failure in an election. Venka has contributed so much to Asian community over the last 2 years. His contributions and activities reached out not only to Japan but also to Thailand, Vietnam, India and sometimes to Korea as well. He also put so much efforts organizing FOSS4G Asia this year. And I know as a former board member how he restlessly carried out his duty as president of OSGeo. And finally he failed! I know he didn't answer to some of quesitons to nominees during the election period. Ok, its excuse however he and I was being tied up with handling a urgent issue in community. Anyway I and other Asian friends are so shocked that he was not elected! I bet other Asian members share the same feeling. The result gave the clear meaning to Asian community, "If Venka can't be a board member of OSGeo, nobody can be forever from Asia." I already saw many complaints and discouragement in Asian community. I believe regions other than Europe and NA have the rights to be reprensented failry. So, I'd like to ask new board members to fix this kind of wrong representation of board configuration by adopting new election rules.

 

2. I believe Jeff McKenna's ambiguous behaviours around election period made both him and OSGeo untrustworthy. I don't want to mention again here some of concerns over him in detail during the election. One thing I'd like to point out is his un-withdrwal from board election after disclosing the results. Nothing personal, Jeff. Actually I tried to accept and understand this situation so many times for a couple of days, but I failed to accept. We're not the children in the kindergarten! How can it be happened? The last thing I did as a former board member was approving the motion, "This board election is valid." I was able to block the motion however I approved the motion. Because I accepted his withdrawal as sincere one and trusted him. I'm feeling my good intention was being betrayed. I know I don't have any rights now to change my previous decision and I don't want to criticise someone here. New board, this case cleary has shown that there's big loophole in our election process. If OSGe can't fix it, OSGeo will lose trust and credibility. Board, you need to bear in mind that there's already bunch of sign of loosing trust from community.

 

Many mentioned that OSGeo is run by Do-ocracy. I believe the basis of Do-ocracy is recognizing of someone's work and trust. If someone's hardwork is not recognized and acknowledged fairy, who will want to jump into the matters to fix it? And if someone can't trust the organization, who wants to put their precious time and efforts to untrustworthy one?

 

If OSGeo lose the trust, it will lose everything. OSGeo is just shell.

 

Best regards,

신상희
---
Shin, Sanghee
Gaia3D, Inc. - The GeoSpatial Company
www.gaia3d.com

 


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Re: My feelings about board elections

Vicky Vergara-2
Hi all, Frank:

I have being woman all my life and also Mexican, I fall in both categories, but personally I want to win in a fair game, not to fill a quota, and in this case is two quotas!!!. I don't feel that ever in my life I won something to fill a quota and I don't want to start to be used to fill a quota.

Storm is over and my baby elephant is eating fresh grass that is starting to grow.

Being on the board or not, there is work to be done.

Regards
Vicky

​PS. I will think of option(s) that are not filling quotas.








On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 1:40 AM, Frank Warmerdam <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 7:56 PM, Ravi Kumar
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Will be happy to see those who have let 'The Clouds In Motion'... and those
> 'Giving us a good harvest of GRASS'.. speak out too.

Ravi,

I am not sure, but in light of my signature perhaps 'the clouds in
motion' is a hint to me.

I don't see any need to rerun this election, nor am I particularly
concerned co-CRO who is nominated to run, etc.  Lets all give folks
the benefit of the doubt, and it isn't like the board has their
fingers on the button of nuclear weapons. :-)

Like Sanghee I am concerned that the board is less diverse than I
would have hoped by now.  I think it would be reasonable to adapt the
board selection criteria to ensure at least some diversity on axes we
want to see covered.  I could imagine a couple of special rules like:
 - If by normal voting no female would be elected, and if there is a
female running in the election the female with the most votes will
replace the otherwise lowest voted person who would have made the
board.
 - If by normal voting no two board members are selected who are
outside "north america + europe" and if there are such candidates
running then replace the otherwise lowest voted person who would have
made the board with the the candidates outside of NA+EUR with the most
votes.

Well some word smithing and algorithm clarification would be needed,
but you get the general idea, and a number of variations would be
helpful in moving us towards more diverse representation.

I would prefer to see a change in board voting rules of this nature
passed by a vote of the charter members rather than just put in place
by the board.

But most of all, I wish to encourage us all to recognise that we are
an organization of volunteers and that we have similar goals.  While
we fine tune things, I hope we try to avoid taking offense and ascribe
the best intentions to others in our community.

Best regards,
--
---------------------------------------+--------------------------------------
I set the clouds in motion - turn up   | Frank Warmerdam, [hidden email]
light and sound - activate the windows |
and watch the world go round - Rush    | Geospatial Software Developer
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
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--
Georepublic UG (haftungsbeschränkt)
Salzmannstraße 44, 
81739 München, Germany

Vicky Vergara
Operations Research

eMail: vicky@georepublic.de
Web: https://georepublic.info

Tel: +49 (089) 4161 7698-1
Fax: +49 (089) 4161 7698-9

Commercial register: Amtsgericht München, HRB 181428
CEO: Daniel Kastl


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Re: [Board] My feelings about board elections

Ravi Kumar
In reply to this post by Ravi Kumar-3

Hi Frank,
that is being Frank. +1 indeed about an equitable distribution of Board around the Globe/Regions (other than North America Europe and Australia).
The users are in greater numbers in the developing world, and the very welcome businesses are in the developed world.
Cheers
Ravi

On Tuesday 31 October 2017, 10:11:02 AM IST, Frank Warmerdam <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 7:56 PM, Ravi Kumar
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Will be happy to see those who have let 'The Clouds In Motion'... and those
> 'Giving us a good harvest of GRASS'.. speak out too.

Ravi,

I am not sure, but in light of my signature perhaps 'the clouds in
motion' is a hint to me.

I don't see any need to rerun this election, nor am I particularly
concerned co-CRO who is nominated to run, etc.  Lets all give folks
the benefit of the doubt, and it isn't like the board has their
fingers on the button of nuclear weapons. :-)

Like Sanghee I am concerned that the board is less diverse than I
would have hoped by now.  I think it would be reasonable to adapt the
board selection criteria to ensure at least some diversity on axes we
want to see covered.  I could imagine a couple of special rules like:
- If by normal voting no female would be elected, and if there is a
female running in the election the female with the most votes will
replace the otherwise lowest voted person who would have made the
board.
- If by normal voting no two board members are selected who are
outside "north america + europe" and if there are such candidates
running then replace the otherwise lowest voted person who would have
made the board with the the candidates outside of NA+EUR with the most
votes.

Well some word smithing and algorithm clarification would be needed,
but you get the general idea, and a number of variations would be
helpful in moving us towards more diverse representation.

I would prefer to see a change in board voting rules of this nature
passed by a vote of the charter members rather than just put in place
by the board.

But most of all, I wish to encourage us all to recognise that we are
an organization of volunteers and that we have similar goals.  While
we fine tune things, I hope we try to avoid taking offense and ascribe
the best intentions to others in our community.


Best regards,

--
---------------------------------------+--------------------------------------
I set the clouds in motion - turn up  | Frank Warmerdam, [hidden email]
light and sound - activate the windows |
and watch the world go round - Rush    | Geospatial Software Developer
_______________________________________________
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Re: My feelings about board elections

Ravi Kumar-3
In reply to this post by Vicky Vergara-2
Hi Vicky +1 indeed about your personal submission.
But think of cases other than yourself.. a change of perspective..
Cheers
Ravi

On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 11:34 AM, Vicky Vergara <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all, Frank:

I have being woman all my life and also Mexican, I fall in both categories, but personally I want to win in a fair game, not to fill a quota, and in this case is two quotas!!!. I don't feel that ever in my life I won something to fill a quota and I don't want to start to be used to fill a quota.

Storm is over and my baby elephant is eating fresh grass that is starting to grow.

Being on the board or not, there is work to be done.

Regards
Vicky

​PS. I will think of option(s) that are not filling quotas.








On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 1:40 AM, Frank Warmerdam <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 7:56 PM, Ravi Kumar
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Will be happy to see those who have let 'The Clouds In Motion'... and those
> 'Giving us a good harvest of GRASS'.. speak out too.

Ravi,

I am not sure, but in light of my signature perhaps 'the clouds in
motion' is a hint to me.

I don't see any need to rerun this election, nor am I particularly
concerned co-CRO who is nominated to run, etc.  Lets all give folks
the benefit of the doubt, and it isn't like the board has their
fingers on the button of nuclear weapons. :-)

Like Sanghee I am concerned that the board is less diverse than I
would have hoped by now.  I think it would be reasonable to adapt the
board selection criteria to ensure at least some diversity on axes we
want to see covered.  I could imagine a couple of special rules like:
 - If by normal voting no female would be elected, and if there is a
female running in the election the female with the most votes will
replace the otherwise lowest voted person who would have made the
board.
 - If by normal voting no two board members are selected who are
outside "north america + europe" and if there are such candidates
running then replace the otherwise lowest voted person who would have
made the board with the the candidates outside of NA+EUR with the most
votes.

Well some word smithing and algorithm clarification would be needed,
but you get the general idea, and a number of variations would be
helpful in moving us towards more diverse representation.

I would prefer to see a change in board voting rules of this nature
passed by a vote of the charter members rather than just put in place
by the board.

But most of all, I wish to encourage us all to recognise that we are
an organization of volunteers and that we have similar goals.  While
we fine tune things, I hope we try to avoid taking offense and ascribe
the best intentions to others in our community.

Best regards,
--
---------------------------------------+--------------------------------------
I set the clouds in motion - turn up   | Frank Warmerdam, [hidden email]
light and sound - activate the windows |
and watch the world go round - Rush    | Geospatial Software Developer
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss



--
Georepublic UG (haftungsbeschränkt)
Salzmannstraße 44, 
81739 München, Germany

Vicky Vergara
Operations Research

eMail: vicky@georepublic.de
Web: https://georepublic.info

Tel: +49 (089) 4161 7698-1
Fax: +49 (089) 4161 7698-9

Commercial register: Amtsgericht München, HRB 181428
CEO: Daniel Kastl



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Re: My feelings about board elections

María Arias de Reyna-4
In reply to this post by Sanghee Shin
Dear all,

Sorry for the late response. I was busy going back from different timezones and that is a killer for me (travelling, being sleepy, etc...).

I agree with Sanghee that we have gone one step backwards. We have lost Asia in the board. That's a step backwards we shouldn't have had. And I agree with 90% of opinions posted here that are sad about the European-NAmerica board. So I will just highlight what I don't agree with. And this is an optimistic email, I don't share the general pessimism. Wait for the end of it.

I don't agree that Venka has been punished somehow despite his good work. Do you really think that if someone is doing a good work that should warrantee his position on the board? I don't think so. I think the reward of doing a good job comes somewhere else: recognition, ¿fame?, trust, acknowledgement, even free beers! But even if you think a position on the board is a reward, then, maybe other people have been also rewarded with that for work outside the presidency of OSGeo but inside the community. Or maybe people just wanted a fresh view, not necessarily that meaning that his work (or your work!) was bad. There is a lot of reasons for voting someone and I personally think that a "reward" vote shouldn't be one. Having other candidates with more votes doesn't mean you did a bad job at all. 

Do I think that you both should be on the board? Yes, of course! But this has also been (at least for me) a very difficult voting. It was very hard to choose between the candidates. All had good reasons to be there, all had good work done inside the community. So, how to choose? I know what you have been doing because I have done an explicit effort to know about that. I have gone to international events, I have followed the mailing lists, I have followed many threads on twitter. Most people only know what people around them do. So it is possible (and very likely, in my opinion) that a lot of people just see OSGeo as an organization, but don't see the work of individuals. So for them, Venka is that person who does the "history of OSGeo" talk, but nothing special around him that other active members don't have. If we ask members who has been behind the new website, how many of them would know? And that is something that has had a lot of publicity recently. What about all the rest of work that has less exposure?

So when it comes to voting, they see candidates who are active in trying to show their views and other candidates that are not present. Not being present on the election process, that is what have drained votes, I would say. Not your fault, maybe, but how do we explain that to people who don't see individuals because they are already busy with local and regional stuff?

And now the optimistic part:On the other hand, we have gone two steps forward. Wait, what? Let me explain:

We are finally half male half female. Although this may not look like a step forward to some of you, to me it is a huge win. And we did that without the need for quotas. That't a double win. And it is a tendency that has been stable so I am optimistic here.

And the other step, but still an important step forward, we have recovered the long lost Iberoamerican community in the board. Since Jorge Sanz, we haven't had a spanish-speaking board member. I know I count as European, but I am as European as I am part of the large (huge!) community that culturally spreads also on north, central and south America. So yes, Vicky may have been a better representative of this community because she is not european, but still, I plan to work hard on getting latin americans closer to OSGeo. Remember that this community is the ¿largest? community in OSGeo and they are very silent because many reasons (low English level, no international FOSS4G being done close, middle income economy that can't afford to travel far or even organizing codesprints properly!,... etc...). Most of them work hard towards OSGeo and don't even know there is such a thing as a membership! They just work aligned with our goals and inside the community, but they see so far away the OSGeo "official" community that they don't even bother to get closer. To get what? What would be their motivation to get closer to a community that largely ignores them?

If you think OSGeo has less importance in South America, check the GeoInquietos. Different branding, same work. On the FOSS4G-BA, after María Brovelli's talk about OSGeo, many of them were surprised. They knew about FOSS4G just because the geoinquietos from Argentina placed it on their doorstep. But, OSGeo? What's that? Aaah, the same thing they have been doing but on an English-speaking community. 

We have lost Asia, but we have a window to South America. And that's very important.

And, wait, have we lost Asia? Does it mean that if there is no board member from Asia, Asia is going to disappear or something? 

If you think it will help, we can have something like one representative for each chapter as advisor or watcher of the board. Why not? Let each chapter decide who to "send", like embassadors. I think that would be a good approach to get closer to different communities.

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