Mailchimp

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Mailchimp

delawen
Dear Conference Committee,

We just had a meeting with the Calgary team to give us the credentials
of the shared accounts by all LOCs.

We have a question regarding MailChimp. We understand this is an
interesting tool that has been widely used in the past. Right now it
has a cost of 93€/month.

Considering we are not going to widely use it in the next few months,
we are going to export all the contacts to convert it to a free plan
for the time being and then decide at a later stage what to do with
it. Possibly reimport all the contacts and pay again, if there is no
better alternative.

Can the Conference Committee discuss to have some FOSS version of
this, like PHPList (https://github.com/phpList/phplist3 ), on OSGeo
servers that will allow us to do the same without depending on an
external provider?

Cheers,
María.
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Re: Mailchimp

stevenfeldman
You may be able to archive all or most of the contacts in your mailchimp account and this reduce down to the basic tier pricing until you start to ramp up for the event next year. Works well if the contracts are segmented in some way so you can archive and then unarchive a segment

See https://mailchimp.com/help/archive-unarchive-contacts/ for some guidance

Regards
Steven


+44 (0) 7958 924101
Sent from my iPhone

On 15 May 2020, at 17:15, María Arias de Reyna <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Conference Committee,

We just had a meeting with the Calgary team to give us the credentials
of the shared accounts by all LOCs.

We have a question regarding MailChimp. We understand this is an
interesting tool that has been widely used in the past. Right now it
has a cost of 93€/month.

Considering we are not going to widely use it in the next few months,
we are going to export all the contacts to convert it to a free plan
for the time being and then decide at a later stage what to do with
it. Possibly reimport all the contacts and pay again, if there is no
better alternative.

Can the Conference Committee discuss to have some FOSS version of
this, like PHPList (https://github.com/phpList/phplist3 ), on OSGeo
servers that will allow us to do the same without depending on an
external provider?

Cheers,
María.
_______________________________________________
Conference_dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev

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[hidden email]
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Re: Mailchimp

stevenfeldman
In reply to this post by delawen
Second thought. I think there are gdpr issues around exporting contacts and where you store them if any of those contacts are EU based.

Regards
Steven


+44 (0) 7958 924101
Sent from my iPhone

> On 15 May 2020, at 17:15, María Arias de Reyna <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Dear Conference Committee,
>
> We just had a meeting with the Calgary team to give us the credentials
> of the shared accounts by all LOCs.
>
> We have a question regarding MailChimp. We understand this is an
> interesting tool that has been widely used in the past. Right now it
> has a cost of 93€/month.
>
> Considering we are not going to widely use it in the next few months,
> we are going to export all the contacts to convert it to a free plan
> for the time being and then decide at a later stage what to do with
> it. Possibly reimport all the contacts and pay again, if there is no
> better alternative.
>
> Can the Conference Committee discuss to have some FOSS version of
> this, like PHPList (https://github.com/phpList/phplist3 ), on OSGeo
> servers that will allow us to do the same without depending on an
> external provider?
>
> Cheers,
> María.
> _______________________________________________
> Conference_dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
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Re: Mailchimp

Darrell Fuhriman
In reply to this post by delawen
My general feeling on these things is that it’s worth the money to not put any more burden on volunteers than is necessary — especially if that burden can be easily outsourced for what is frankly a pretty small charge in the grand scheme of things.

If you can revert to free and then upgrade as necessary, that seems like an excellent investment to me.

Darrell

> On May 15, 2020, at 08:52, María Arias de Reyna <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Dear Conference Committee,
>
> We just had a meeting with the Calgary team to give us the credentials
> of the shared accounts by all LOCs.
>
> We have a question regarding MailChimp. We understand this is an
> interesting tool that has been widely used in the past. Right now it
> has a cost of 93€/month.
>
> Considering we are not going to widely use it in the next few months,
> we are going to export all the contacts to convert it to a free plan
> for the time being and then decide at a later stage what to do with
> it. Possibly reimport all the contacts and pay again, if there is no
> better alternative.
>
> Can the Conference Committee discuss to have some FOSS version of
> this, like PHPList (https://github.com/phpList/phplist3 ), on OSGeo
> servers that will allow us to do the same without depending on an
> external provider?
>
> Cheers,
> María.
> _______________________________________________
> Conference_dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
_______________________________________________
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Re: Mailchimp

Mark Iliffe-2
Hi All,

I'd propose a contrarian view... with less than $100 a month, it should not be too prohibitive for either the Foundation or a LOC planning a $250k+ conference, especially given the logistical 'cost' and legal concerns associated with changing approaches... our community is rather diligent on personal information after all and directly downloading, as Steven points out, could in violation of certain regional laws. Moreover, on a personal level, I'm happy that my 'personal' details are shared with a company that has direct safeguards for personal information and data - downloading it to a personal computer, no matter what good intentions, makes me slightly uncomfortable.

Best,

Mark

On Fri, 15 May 2020 at 12:36, Darrell fuhriman <[hidden email]> wrote:
My general feeling on these things is that it’s worth the money to not put any more burden on volunteers than is necessary — especially if that burden can be easily outsourced for what is frankly a pretty small charge in the grand scheme of things.

If you can revert to free and then upgrade as necessary, that seems like an excellent investment to me.

Darrell

> On May 15, 2020, at 08:52, María Arias de Reyna <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Dear Conference Committee,
>
> We just had a meeting with the Calgary team to give us the credentials
> of the shared accounts by all LOCs.
>
> We have a question regarding MailChimp. We understand this is an
> interesting tool that has been widely used in the past. Right now it
> has a cost of 93€/month.
>
> Considering we are not going to widely use it in the next few months,
> we are going to export all the contacts to convert it to a free plan
> for the time being and then decide at a later stage what to do with
> it. Possibly reimport all the contacts and pay again, if there is no
> better alternative.
>
> Can the Conference Committee discuss to have some FOSS version of
> this, like PHPList (https://github.com/phpList/phplist3 ), on OSGeo
> servers that will allow us to do the same without depending on an
> external provider?
>
> Cheers,
> María.
> _______________________________________________
> Conference_dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
_______________________________________________
Conference_dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev

_______________________________________________
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Re: Mailchimp

Eli Adam
In reply to this post by Darrell Fuhriman
I have some hesitancy to ever be in the situation of "we can't send
emails to our list" which could happen if we plan to migrate later (or
even, unarchive  later).  If there is some reliable method to increase
and decrease expense that doesn't conflict with other uses of that
function, that might be worthwhile if some individual wants to
reliably take that on.  Do we know when FOSS4G 2021 wants to start
sending messages?

I'm also open to evaluating options like https://phplist.com/pricing
if it were found to be equivalent (or better) and would support open
source software while doing it.  Generally, I think there is some
value to stability in things like this and we shouldn't be changing
too frequently.  Any change should be done in coordination with a LOC
(or if it were to be part of a more centrally managed service by the
Conference Committee).

For straight cost, +1 to what Darrell and Mark said.  This cost is
minor in the big picture.  Generally sysadmin time is one of the more
scarce resources around OSGeo and I think that is best reserved for
other functions that can't easily be done otherwise/elsewhere.  We
would need to talk to SAC before shifting responsibility of FOSS4G
emails going through correctly on tight timelines to them.

More generally, evaluating which tasks are managed centrally by the
Conference Committee and which are shuffled from LOC to LOC might be
worth a larger conversation (maybe on some other thread).

Best regards, Eli

On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 9:34 AM Darrell fuhriman <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> My general feeling on these things is that it’s worth the money to not put any more burden on volunteers than is necessary — especially if that burden can be easily outsourced for what is frankly a pretty small charge in the grand scheme of things.
>
> If you can revert to free and then upgrade as necessary, that seems like an excellent investment to me.
>
> Darrell
>
> > On May 15, 2020, at 08:52, María Arias de Reyna <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Conference Committee,
> >
> > We just had a meeting with the Calgary team to give us the credentials
> > of the shared accounts by all LOCs.
> >
> > We have a question regarding MailChimp. We understand this is an
> > interesting tool that has been widely used in the past. Right now it
> > has a cost of 93€/month.
> >
> > Considering we are not going to widely use it in the next few months,
> > we are going to export all the contacts to convert it to a free plan
> > for the time being and then decide at a later stage what to do with
> > it. Possibly reimport all the contacts and pay again, if there is no
> > better alternative.
> >
> > Can the Conference Committee discuss to have some FOSS version of
> > this, like PHPList (https://github.com/phpList/phplist3 ), on OSGeo
> > servers that will allow us to do the same without depending on an
> > external provider?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > María.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Conference_dev mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
> _______________________________________________
> Conference_dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
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Re: Mailchimp

Malena Libman
Hi all,

For the FOSS4G BALOC, the issue right now is that we don't have the budget to support the mailchimp billing while we are not using it.

We are working on locking the exact dates, but as long as we don't launch the CFP or the ticket sales, we don't need the mailing platform and it's imperative we reduce expenses considering the pandemic situation world wide and the precarious future of the conference.

Thanks Steven for the suggestion on archive method, maybe that's the best way to change the billing plan without downloading information to avoid the concerns that Mark mentions or losing important data.

As Eli mentioned, it would be good for us (as LOC) to know exactly which tasks are managed by the committee and which we need to take care of.

Cheers

Malena

El vie., 15 may. 2020 a las 16:29, Eli Adam (<[hidden email]>) escribió:
I have some hesitancy to ever be in the situation of "we can't send
emails to our list" which could happen if we plan to migrate later (or
even, unarchive  later).  If there is some reliable method to increase
and decrease expense that doesn't conflict with other uses of that
function, that might be worthwhile if some individual wants to
reliably take that on.  Do we know when FOSS4G 2021 wants to start
sending messages?

I'm also open to evaluating options like https://phplist.com/pricing
if it were found to be equivalent (or better) and would support open
source software while doing it.  Generally, I think there is some
value to stability in things like this and we shouldn't be changing
too frequently.  Any change should be done in coordination with a LOC
(or if it were to be part of a more centrally managed service by the
Conference Committee).

For straight cost, +1 to what Darrell and Mark said.  This cost is
minor in the big picture.  Generally sysadmin time is one of the more
scarce resources around OSGeo and I think that is best reserved for
other functions that can't easily be done otherwise/elsewhere.  We
would need to talk to SAC before shifting responsibility of FOSS4G
emails going through correctly on tight timelines to them.

More generally, evaluating which tasks are managed centrally by the
Conference Committee and which are shuffled from LOC to LOC might be
worth a larger conversation (maybe on some other thread).

Best regards, Eli

On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 9:34 AM Darrell fuhriman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> My general feeling on these things is that it’s worth the money to not put any more burden on volunteers than is necessary — especially if that burden can be easily outsourced for what is frankly a pretty small charge in the grand scheme of things.
>
> If you can revert to free and then upgrade as necessary, that seems like an excellent investment to me.
>
> Darrell
>
> > On May 15, 2020, at 08:52, María Arias de Reyna <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Conference Committee,
> >
> > We just had a meeting with the Calgary team to give us the credentials
> > of the shared accounts by all LOCs.
> >
> > We have a question regarding MailChimp. We understand this is an
> > interesting tool that has been widely used in the past. Right now it
> > has a cost of 93€/month.
> >
> > Considering we are not going to widely use it in the next few months,
> > we are going to export all the contacts to convert it to a free plan
> > for the time being and then decide at a later stage what to do with
> > it. Possibly reimport all the contacts and pay again, if there is no
> > better alternative.
> >
> > Can the Conference Committee discuss to have some FOSS version of
> > this, like PHPList (https://github.com/phpList/phplist3 ), on OSGeo
> > servers that will allow us to do the same without depending on an
> > external provider?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > María.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Conference_dev mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
> _______________________________________________
> Conference_dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
_______________________________________________
Conference_dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev

_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
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Re: Mailchimp

Eli Adam
On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 12:48 PM Malena Libman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> For the FOSS4G BALOC, the issue right now is that we don't have the budget to support the mailchimp billing while we are not using it.

My question was more of, "When does BALOC want to send messages?"  And
not, "When does BALOC want to start paying for the service?"  Many
years, the next LOC is very ready to start sending messages the
day/week after the prior FOSS4G and sometimes (with careful
coordination) before the prior event.  If BALOC wants to start sending
messages in September (four months from now), we may want to just
leave it as is, even if BALOC doesn't yet take over payment of it.

>
> We are working on locking the exact dates, but as long as we don't launch the CFP or the ticket sales, we don't need the mailing platform and it's imperative we reduce expenses considering the pandemic situation world wide and the precarious future of the conference.
>
> Thanks Steven for the suggestion on archive method, maybe that's the best way to change the billing plan without downloading information to avoid the concerns that Mark mentions or losing important data.
>
> As Eli mentioned, it would be good for us (as LOC) to know exactly which tasks are managed by the committee and which we need to take care of.

I think the typical approach is that the LOC does almost 100% of
everything and the Conference Committee does very little beyond the
initial selection and being available for guidance or advice or if
issues need input.  My (not directly related to this thread) comment
was about whether we would ever want to reconsider that and establish
some long term continuity that does some of the routine conference
logistics.  That was mere commentary on my part.

Best regards, Eli

>
> Cheers
>
> Malena
>
> El vie., 15 may. 2020 a las 16:29, Eli Adam (<[hidden email]>) escribió:
>>
>> I have some hesitancy to ever be in the situation of "we can't send
>> emails to our list" which could happen if we plan to migrate later (or
>> even, unarchive  later).  If there is some reliable method to increase
>> and decrease expense that doesn't conflict with other uses of that
>> function, that might be worthwhile if some individual wants to
>> reliably take that on.  Do we know when FOSS4G 2021 wants to start
>> sending messages?
>>
>> I'm also open to evaluating options like https://phplist.com/pricing
>> if it were found to be equivalent (or better) and would support open
>> source software while doing it.  Generally, I think there is some
>> value to stability in things like this and we shouldn't be changing
>> too frequently.  Any change should be done in coordination with a LOC
>> (or if it were to be part of a more centrally managed service by the
>> Conference Committee).
>>
>> For straight cost, +1 to what Darrell and Mark said.  This cost is
>> minor in the big picture.  Generally sysadmin time is one of the more
>> scarce resources around OSGeo and I think that is best reserved for
>> other functions that can't easily be done otherwise/elsewhere.  We
>> would need to talk to SAC before shifting responsibility of FOSS4G
>> emails going through correctly on tight timelines to them.
>>
>> More generally, evaluating which tasks are managed centrally by the
>> Conference Committee and which are shuffled from LOC to LOC might be
>> worth a larger conversation (maybe on some other thread).
>>
>> Best regards, Eli
>>
>> On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 9:34 AM Darrell fuhriman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> > My general feeling on these things is that it’s worth the money to not put any more burden on volunteers than is necessary — especially if that burden can be easily outsourced for what is frankly a pretty small charge in the grand scheme of things.
>> >
>> > If you can revert to free and then upgrade as necessary, that seems like an excellent investment to me.
>> >
>> > Darrell
>> >
>> > > On May 15, 2020, at 08:52, María Arias de Reyna <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Dear Conference Committee,
>> > >
>> > > We just had a meeting with the Calgary team to give us the credentials
>> > > of the shared accounts by all LOCs.
>> > >
>> > > We have a question regarding MailChimp. We understand this is an
>> > > interesting tool that has been widely used in the past. Right now it
>> > > has a cost of 93€/month.
>> > >
>> > > Considering we are not going to widely use it in the next few months,
>> > > we are going to export all the contacts to convert it to a free plan
>> > > for the time being and then decide at a later stage what to do with
>> > > it. Possibly reimport all the contacts and pay again, if there is no
>> > > better alternative.
>> > >
>> > > Can the Conference Committee discuss to have some FOSS version of
>> > > this, like PHPList (https://github.com/phpList/phplist3 ), on OSGeo
>> > > servers that will allow us to do the same without depending on an
>> > > external provider?
>> > >
>> > > Cheers,
>> > > María.
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Conference_dev mailing list
>> > > [hidden email]
>> > > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Conference_dev mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
>> _______________________________________________
>> Conference_dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
_______________________________________________
Conference_dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
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Re: Mailchimp

Malena Libman
Thank for your answer Eli.

I think some of my answers are not as perfect in english as a thought they where.

I didn't mean we wanted to start to pay whenever we want, it's just that with no income for at least 4 months and the need to relieve the CLOC of the MailChimp expense now (the next charge is may 19th), we don't have the money yet to cover this.

As for the final comment, I also meant to agree with you, not to say that the CC should do any of our work. 

Malena



El vie., 15 may. 2020 a las 17:10, Eli Adam (<[hidden email]>) escribió:
On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 12:48 PM Malena Libman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> For the FOSS4G BALOC, the issue right now is that we don't have the budget to support the mailchimp billing while we are not using it.

My question was more of, "When does BALOC want to send messages?"  And
not, "When does BALOC want to start paying for the service?"  Many
years, the next LOC is very ready to start sending messages the
day/week after the prior FOSS4G and sometimes (with careful
coordination) before the prior event.  If BALOC wants to start sending
messages in September (four months from now), we may want to just
leave it as is, even if BALOC doesn't yet take over payment of it.

>
> We are working on locking the exact dates, but as long as we don't launch the CFP or the ticket sales, we don't need the mailing platform and it's imperative we reduce expenses considering the pandemic situation world wide and the precarious future of the conference.
>
> Thanks Steven for the suggestion on archive method, maybe that's the best way to change the billing plan without downloading information to avoid the concerns that Mark mentions or losing important data.
>
> As Eli mentioned, it would be good for us (as LOC) to know exactly which tasks are managed by the committee and which we need to take care of.

I think the typical approach is that the LOC does almost 100% of
everything and the Conference Committee does very little beyond the
initial selection and being available for guidance or advice or if
issues need input.  My (not directly related to this thread) comment
was about whether we would ever want to reconsider that and establish
some long term continuity that does some of the routine conference
logistics.  That was mere commentary on my part.

Best regards, Eli

>
> Cheers
>
> Malena
>
> El vie., 15 may. 2020 a las 16:29, Eli Adam (<[hidden email]>) escribió:
>>
>> I have some hesitancy to ever be in the situation of "we can't send
>> emails to our list" which could happen if we plan to migrate later (or
>> even, unarchive  later).  If there is some reliable method to increase
>> and decrease expense that doesn't conflict with other uses of that
>> function, that might be worthwhile if some individual wants to
>> reliably take that on.  Do we know when FOSS4G 2021 wants to start
>> sending messages?
>>
>> I'm also open to evaluating options like https://phplist.com/pricing
>> if it were found to be equivalent (or better) and would support open
>> source software while doing it.  Generally, I think there is some
>> value to stability in things like this and we shouldn't be changing
>> too frequently.  Any change should be done in coordination with a LOC
>> (or if it were to be part of a more centrally managed service by the
>> Conference Committee).
>>
>> For straight cost, +1 to what Darrell and Mark said.  This cost is
>> minor in the big picture.  Generally sysadmin time is one of the more
>> scarce resources around OSGeo and I think that is best reserved for
>> other functions that can't easily be done otherwise/elsewhere.  We
>> would need to talk to SAC before shifting responsibility of FOSS4G
>> emails going through correctly on tight timelines to them.
>>
>> More generally, evaluating which tasks are managed centrally by the
>> Conference Committee and which are shuffled from LOC to LOC might be
>> worth a larger conversation (maybe on some other thread).
>>
>> Best regards, Eli
>>
>> On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 9:34 AM Darrell fuhriman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> > My general feeling on these things is that it’s worth the money to not put any more burden on volunteers than is necessary — especially if that burden can be easily outsourced for what is frankly a pretty small charge in the grand scheme of things.
>> >
>> > If you can revert to free and then upgrade as necessary, that seems like an excellent investment to me.
>> >
>> > Darrell
>> >
>> > > On May 15, 2020, at 08:52, María Arias de Reyna <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Dear Conference Committee,
>> > >
>> > > We just had a meeting with the Calgary team to give us the credentials
>> > > of the shared accounts by all LOCs.
>> > >
>> > > We have a question regarding MailChimp. We understand this is an
>> > > interesting tool that has been widely used in the past. Right now it
>> > > has a cost of 93€/month.
>> > >
>> > > Considering we are not going to widely use it in the next few months,
>> > > we are going to export all the contacts to convert it to a free plan
>> > > for the time being and then decide at a later stage what to do with
>> > > it. Possibly reimport all the contacts and pay again, if there is no
>> > > better alternative.
>> > >
>> > > Can the Conference Committee discuss to have some FOSS version of
>> > > this, like PHPList (https://github.com/phpList/phplist3 ), on OSGeo
>> > > servers that will allow us to do the same without depending on an
>> > > external provider?
>> > >
>> > > Cheers,
>> > > María.
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Conference_dev mailing list
>> > > [hidden email]
>> > > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Conference_dev mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
>> _______________________________________________
>> Conference_dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev

_______________________________________________
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Re: Mailchimp

Bart van den Eijnden (OSGIS)-2

Stupid question maybe, but why does the LOC have to pay for this? Why is it not covered by OSGeo?

Best regards,

Bart

On 15-05-2020 22:17, Malena Libman wrote:
Thank for your answer Eli.

I think some of my answers are not as perfect in english as a thought they where.

I didn't mean we wanted to start to pay whenever we want, it's just that with no income for at least 4 months and the need to relieve the CLOC of the MailChimp expense now (the next charge is may 19th), we don't have the money yet to cover this.

As for the final comment, I also meant to agree with you, not to say that the CC should do any of our work. 

Malena



El vie., 15 may. 2020 a las 17:10, Eli Adam (<[hidden email]>) escribió:
On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 12:48 PM Malena Libman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> For the FOSS4G BALOC, the issue right now is that we don't have the budget to support the mailchimp billing while we are not using it.

My question was more of, "When does BALOC want to send messages?"  And
not, "When does BALOC want to start paying for the service?"  Many
years, the next LOC is very ready to start sending messages the
day/week after the prior FOSS4G and sometimes (with careful
coordination) before the prior event.  If BALOC wants to start sending
messages in September (four months from now), we may want to just
leave it as is, even if BALOC doesn't yet take over payment of it.

>
> We are working on locking the exact dates, but as long as we don't launch the CFP or the ticket sales, we don't need the mailing platform and it's imperative we reduce expenses considering the pandemic situation world wide and the precarious future of the conference.
>
> Thanks Steven for the suggestion on archive method, maybe that's the best way to change the billing plan without downloading information to avoid the concerns that Mark mentions or losing important data.
>
> As Eli mentioned, it would be good for us (as LOC) to know exactly which tasks are managed by the committee and which we need to take care of.

I think the typical approach is that the LOC does almost 100% of
everything and the Conference Committee does very little beyond the
initial selection and being available for guidance or advice or if
issues need input.  My (not directly related to this thread) comment
was about whether we would ever want to reconsider that and establish
some long term continuity that does some of the routine conference
logistics.  That was mere commentary on my part.

Best regards, Eli

>
> Cheers
>
> Malena
>
> El vie., 15 may. 2020 a las 16:29, Eli Adam (<[hidden email]>) escribió:
>>
>> I have some hesitancy to ever be in the situation of "we can't send
>> emails to our list" which could happen if we plan to migrate later (or
>> even, unarchive  later).  If there is some reliable method to increase
>> and decrease expense that doesn't conflict with other uses of that
>> function, that might be worthwhile if some individual wants to
>> reliably take that on.  Do we know when FOSS4G 2021 wants to start
>> sending messages?
>>
>> I'm also open to evaluating options like https://phplist.com/pricing
>> if it were found to be equivalent (or better) and would support open
>> source software while doing it.  Generally, I think there is some
>> value to stability in things like this and we shouldn't be changing
>> too frequently.  Any change should be done in coordination with a LOC
>> (or if it were to be part of a more centrally managed service by the
>> Conference Committee).
>>
>> For straight cost, +1 to what Darrell and Mark said.  This cost is
>> minor in the big picture.  Generally sysadmin time is one of the more
>> scarce resources around OSGeo and I think that is best reserved for
>> other functions that can't easily be done otherwise/elsewhere.  We
>> would need to talk to SAC before shifting responsibility of FOSS4G
>> emails going through correctly on tight timelines to them.
>>
>> More generally, evaluating which tasks are managed centrally by the
>> Conference Committee and which are shuffled from LOC to LOC might be
>> worth a larger conversation (maybe on some other thread).
>>
>> Best regards, Eli
>>
>> On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 9:34 AM Darrell fuhriman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> > My general feeling on these things is that it’s worth the money to not put any more burden on volunteers than is necessary — especially if that burden can be easily outsourced for what is frankly a pretty small charge in the grand scheme of things.
>> >
>> > If you can revert to free and then upgrade as necessary, that seems like an excellent investment to me.
>> >
>> > Darrell
>> >
>> > > On May 15, 2020, at 08:52, María Arias de Reyna <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Dear Conference Committee,
>> > >
>> > > We just had a meeting with the Calgary team to give us the credentials
>> > > of the shared accounts by all LOCs.
>> > >
>> > > We have a question regarding MailChimp. We understand this is an
>> > > interesting tool that has been widely used in the past. Right now it
>> > > has a cost of 93€/month.
>> > >
>> > > Considering we are not going to widely use it in the next few months,
>> > > we are going to export all the contacts to convert it to a free plan
>> > > for the time being and then decide at a later stage what to do with
>> > > it. Possibly reimport all the contacts and pay again, if there is no
>> > > better alternative.
>> > >
>> > > Can the Conference Committee discuss to have some FOSS version of
>> > > this, like PHPList (https://github.com/phpList/phplist3 ), on OSGeo
>> > > servers that will allow us to do the same without depending on an
>> > > external provider?
>> > >
>> > > Cheers,
>> > > María.
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Conference_dev mailing list
>> > > [hidden email]
>> > > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Conference_dev mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
>> _______________________________________________
>> Conference_dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev

_______________________________________________
Conference_dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev

_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
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Re: Mailchimp

Eli Adam
In reply to this post by Malena Libman
Hi Malena,

On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 1:18 PM Malena Libman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Thank for your answer Eli.
>
> I think some of my answers are not as perfect in english as a thought they where.

I'm not always the most careful reader (or writer) either.

>
> I didn't mean we wanted to start to pay whenever we want, it's just that with no income for at least 4 months and the need to relieve the CLOC of the MailChimp expense now (the next charge is may 19th), we don't have the money yet to cover this.
>

I'm suggesting that this might be a good idea.  Typically the next LOC
gets access to the twitter account, email list and other things
through the previous LOC, sometimes overlapping a bit.  And sometimes
the previous LOC pays for things for a few months until the next LOC
gets everything in order.  CLOC is wrapping up now and that isn't an
option this year.

So my question remains, "When does BALOC want to start sending
emails?"  I think that we should enable that to happen, even with
OSGeo/Conference Committee paying the bill.


> As for the final comment, I also meant to agree with you, not to say that the CC should do any of our work.

Sounds good.  It has been talked about for many years but not much has
been implemented.  I didn't want to mislead from my side comment so
tried clarifying.

Best regards, Eli

>
> Malena
>
>
>
> El vie., 15 may. 2020 a las 17:10, Eli Adam (<[hidden email]>) escribió:
>>
>> On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 12:48 PM Malena Libman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > For the FOSS4G BALOC, the issue right now is that we don't have the budget to support the mailchimp billing while we are not using it.
>>
>> My question was more of, "When does BALOC want to send messages?"  And
>> not, "When does BALOC want to start paying for the service?"  Many
>> years, the next LOC is very ready to start sending messages the
>> day/week after the prior FOSS4G and sometimes (with careful
>> coordination) before the prior event.  If BALOC wants to start sending
>> messages in September (four months from now), we may want to just
>> leave it as is, even if BALOC doesn't yet take over payment of it.
>>
>> >
>> > We are working on locking the exact dates, but as long as we don't launch the CFP or the ticket sales, we don't need the mailing platform and it's imperative we reduce expenses considering the pandemic situation world wide and the precarious future of the conference.
>> >
>> > Thanks Steven for the suggestion on archive method, maybe that's the best way to change the billing plan without downloading information to avoid the concerns that Mark mentions or losing important data.
>> >
>> > As Eli mentioned, it would be good for us (as LOC) to know exactly which tasks are managed by the committee and which we need to take care of.
>>
>> I think the typical approach is that the LOC does almost 100% of
>> everything and the Conference Committee does very little beyond the
>> initial selection and being available for guidance or advice or if
>> issues need input.  My (not directly related to this thread) comment
>> was about whether we would ever want to reconsider that and establish
>> some long term continuity that does some of the routine conference
>> logistics.  That was mere commentary on my part.
>>
>> Best regards, Eli
>>
>> >
>> > Cheers
>> >
>> > Malena
>> >
>> > El vie., 15 may. 2020 a las 16:29, Eli Adam (<[hidden email]>) escribió:
>> >>
>> >> I have some hesitancy to ever be in the situation of "we can't send
>> >> emails to our list" which could happen if we plan to migrate later (or
>> >> even, unarchive  later).  If there is some reliable method to increase
>> >> and decrease expense that doesn't conflict with other uses of that
>> >> function, that might be worthwhile if some individual wants to
>> >> reliably take that on.  Do we know when FOSS4G 2021 wants to start
>> >> sending messages?
>> >>
>> >> I'm also open to evaluating options like https://phplist.com/pricing
>> >> if it were found to be equivalent (or better) and would support open
>> >> source software while doing it.  Generally, I think there is some
>> >> value to stability in things like this and we shouldn't be changing
>> >> too frequently.  Any change should be done in coordination with a LOC
>> >> (or if it were to be part of a more centrally managed service by the
>> >> Conference Committee).
>> >>
>> >> For straight cost, +1 to what Darrell and Mark said.  This cost is
>> >> minor in the big picture.  Generally sysadmin time is one of the more
>> >> scarce resources around OSGeo and I think that is best reserved for
>> >> other functions that can't easily be done otherwise/elsewhere.  We
>> >> would need to talk to SAC before shifting responsibility of FOSS4G
>> >> emails going through correctly on tight timelines to them.
>> >>
>> >> More generally, evaluating which tasks are managed centrally by the
>> >> Conference Committee and which are shuffled from LOC to LOC might be
>> >> worth a larger conversation (maybe on some other thread).
>> >>
>> >> Best regards, Eli
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 9:34 AM Darrell fuhriman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > My general feeling on these things is that it’s worth the money to not put any more burden on volunteers than is necessary — especially if that burden can be easily outsourced for what is frankly a pretty small charge in the grand scheme of things.
>> >> >
>> >> > If you can revert to free and then upgrade as necessary, that seems like an excellent investment to me.
>> >> >
>> >> > Darrell
>> >> >
>> >> > > On May 15, 2020, at 08:52, María Arias de Reyna <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Dear Conference Committee,
>> >> > >
>> >> > > We just had a meeting with the Calgary team to give us the credentials
>> >> > > of the shared accounts by all LOCs.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > We have a question regarding MailChimp. We understand this is an
>> >> > > interesting tool that has been widely used in the past. Right now it
>> >> > > has a cost of 93€/month.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Considering we are not going to widely use it in the next few months,
>> >> > > we are going to export all the contacts to convert it to a free plan
>> >> > > for the time being and then decide at a later stage what to do with
>> >> > > it. Possibly reimport all the contacts and pay again, if there is no
>> >> > > better alternative.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Can the Conference Committee discuss to have some FOSS version of
>> >> > > this, like PHPList (https://github.com/phpList/phplist3 ), on OSGeo
>> >> > > servers that will allow us to do the same without depending on an
>> >> > > external provider?
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Cheers,
>> >> > > María.
>> >> > > _______________________________________________
>> >> > > Conference_dev mailing list
>> >> > > [hidden email]
>> >> > > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Conference_dev mailing list
>> >> > [hidden email]
>> >> > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Conference_dev mailing list
>> >> [hidden email]
>> >> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
_______________________________________________
Conference_dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
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|

Re: Mailchimp

Eli Adam
In reply to this post by Bart van den Eijnden (OSGIS)-2
On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 1:53 PM Bart van den Eijnden <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Stupid question maybe, but why does the LOC have to pay for this? Why is it not covered by OSGeo?

No good reason, just that's the way it has always been done.  My
initial side comment was questioning if we want to re-evaluate that
(which is probably a different thread rather than this thread about
what to do with Mailchimp for the next # months). It is not just
Mailchimp, the whole conference is more or less entirely completed
from scratch by the LOC with very little institutional continuity from
year to year.

I'll also point out that depending on how finances are configured,
sometimes OSGeo money and LOC money are the same thing and the
"difference" is mostly fictional.

Best regards, Eli

>
> Best regards,
>
> Bart
>
> On 15-05-2020 22:17, Malena Libman wrote:
>
> Thank for your answer Eli.
>
> I think some of my answers are not as perfect in english as a thought they where.
>
> I didn't mean we wanted to start to pay whenever we want, it's just that with no income for at least 4 months and the need to relieve the CLOC of the MailChimp expense now (the next charge is may 19th), we don't have the money yet to cover this.
>
> As for the final comment, I also meant to agree with you, not to say that the CC should do any of our work.
>
> Malena
>
>
>
> El vie., 15 may. 2020 a las 17:10, Eli Adam (<[hidden email]>) escribió:
>>
>> On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 12:48 PM Malena Libman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > For the FOSS4G BALOC, the issue right now is that we don't have the budget to support the mailchimp billing while we are not using it.
>>
>> My question was more of, "When does BALOC want to send messages?"  And
>> not, "When does BALOC want to start paying for the service?"  Many
>> years, the next LOC is very ready to start sending messages the
>> day/week after the prior FOSS4G and sometimes (with careful
>> coordination) before the prior event.  If BALOC wants to start sending
>> messages in September (four months from now), we may want to just
>> leave it as is, even if BALOC doesn't yet take over payment of it.
>>
>> >
>> > We are working on locking the exact dates, but as long as we don't launch the CFP or the ticket sales, we don't need the mailing platform and it's imperative we reduce expenses considering the pandemic situation world wide and the precarious future of the conference.
>> >
>> > Thanks Steven for the suggestion on archive method, maybe that's the best way to change the billing plan without downloading information to avoid the concerns that Mark mentions or losing important data.
>> >
>> > As Eli mentioned, it would be good for us (as LOC) to know exactly which tasks are managed by the committee and which we need to take care of.
>>
>> I think the typical approach is that the LOC does almost 100% of
>> everything and the Conference Committee does very little beyond the
>> initial selection and being available for guidance or advice or if
>> issues need input.  My (not directly related to this thread) comment
>> was about whether we would ever want to reconsider that and establish
>> some long term continuity that does some of the routine conference
>> logistics.  That was mere commentary on my part.
>>
>> Best regards, Eli
>>
>> >
>> > Cheers
>> >
>> > Malena
>> >
>> > El vie., 15 may. 2020 a las 16:29, Eli Adam (<[hidden email]>) escribió:
>> >>
>> >> I have some hesitancy to ever be in the situation of "we can't send
>> >> emails to our list" which could happen if we plan to migrate later (or
>> >> even, unarchive  later).  If there is some reliable method to increase
>> >> and decrease expense that doesn't conflict with other uses of that
>> >> function, that might be worthwhile if some individual wants to
>> >> reliably take that on.  Do we know when FOSS4G 2021 wants to start
>> >> sending messages?
>> >>
>> >> I'm also open to evaluating options like https://phplist.com/pricing
>> >> if it were found to be equivalent (or better) and would support open
>> >> source software while doing it.  Generally, I think there is some
>> >> value to stability in things like this and we shouldn't be changing
>> >> too frequently.  Any change should be done in coordination with a LOC
>> >> (or if it were to be part of a more centrally managed service by the
>> >> Conference Committee).
>> >>
>> >> For straight cost, +1 to what Darrell and Mark said.  This cost is
>> >> minor in the big picture.  Generally sysadmin time is one of the more
>> >> scarce resources around OSGeo and I think that is best reserved for
>> >> other functions that can't easily be done otherwise/elsewhere.  We
>> >> would need to talk to SAC before shifting responsibility of FOSS4G
>> >> emails going through correctly on tight timelines to them.
>> >>
>> >> More generally, evaluating which tasks are managed centrally by the
>> >> Conference Committee and which are shuffled from LOC to LOC might be
>> >> worth a larger conversation (maybe on some other thread).
>> >>
>> >> Best regards, Eli
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 9:34 AM Darrell fuhriman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > My general feeling on these things is that it’s worth the money to not put any more burden on volunteers than is necessary — especially if that burden can be easily outsourced for what is frankly a pretty small charge in the grand scheme of things.
>> >> >
>> >> > If you can revert to free and then upgrade as necessary, that seems like an excellent investment to me.
>> >> >
>> >> > Darrell
>> >> >
>> >> > > On May 15, 2020, at 08:52, María Arias de Reyna <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Dear Conference Committee,
>> >> > >
>> >> > > We just had a meeting with the Calgary team to give us the credentials
>> >> > > of the shared accounts by all LOCs.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > We have a question regarding MailChimp. We understand this is an
>> >> > > interesting tool that has been widely used in the past. Right now it
>> >> > > has a cost of 93€/month.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Considering we are not going to widely use it in the next few months,
>> >> > > we are going to export all the contacts to convert it to a free plan
>> >> > > for the time being and then decide at a later stage what to do with
>> >> > > it. Possibly reimport all the contacts and pay again, if there is no
>> >> > > better alternative.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Can the Conference Committee discuss to have some FOSS version of
>> >> > > this, like PHPList (https://github.com/phpList/phplist3 ), on OSGeo
>> >> > > servers that will allow us to do the same without depending on an
>> >> > > external provider?
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Cheers,
>> >> > > María.
>> >> > > _______________________________________________
>> >> > > Conference_dev mailing list
>> >> > > [hidden email]
>> >> > > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Conference_dev mailing list
>> >> > [hidden email]
>> >> > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Conference_dev mailing list
>> >> [hidden email]
>> >> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Conference_dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
>
> _______________________________________________
> Conference_dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
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Re: Mailchimp

stevenfeldman
The first thing we should do is pause our MailChimp account billing:

If you have a paid monthly plan and don't need to send campaigns for a while, you can pause billing on your account. You can keep your account paused as long as you need to, but you’re limited to two pauses each year.

When you pause your account, we immediately end the current billing cycle and suspend sending functionality. You can still use Mailchimp to create and edit campaigns and templates, view reports, and make changes to your audience. We’ll even continue to manage new signups for you.

When you're ready to send campaigns again, you’ll need to purchase a plan to unpause your account.

I have also checked and here is what MailChimp says about archiving:

When you archive a contact, you remove them from the contact table and add them to a separate archived contacts page. As long as a contact remains archived, you won’t be able to edit their profile or send them any marketing communications. However, you’ll retain all of their data, including identifiable information in campaign reports. Archived contacts don’t count toward your billing. 

You can unarchive a contact at any time, and they’ll appear back in your audience with the appropriate email marketing status. A contact can also unarchive themselves if they sign up through your Mailchimp signup form or interact with your connected online store.

Seems to me that we should archive all of the contacts (perhaps doing a bit of segmentation before archiving to make it easier to selectively unarchive when we want to reactivate mailing).

How many contacts do we have? We should check that we are on the best MailChimp tier for our needs. It would be much easier to stick with MailChimp and manage our costs than try to set up a new system, find volunteers to do the sysadmin work and then worry about GDPR compliance etc. 

I suggest that the cost of the MailChimp is paid for by the Conference Committee. We have the unused budget for the TGP for 2020, we should ask OSGeo Board to allow us to use some of that budget for this purpose. We should continue to hold this as a “central” cost in the future and provide access to the account to a FOSS4G LOC (could be used by regional events as well as global if well set up). The quick way to do this could be to set the payment method to come via the OSGeo PayPal account (hence I have copied Michael Smith inas OSGeo Treasurer)

I run a MailChimp list for a small local charity, so I know my way around MailChimp. I’d be happy to have a look at how we are set up if there is no one else with more advanced MailChimp experience.

Hope this is helpful

Cheers
______
Steven

Unusual maps in strange places -  mappery.org

Subscribe to my weekly “Maps in the Wild” newsletter

On 15 May 2020, at 21:59, Eli Adam <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 1:53 PM Bart van den Eijnden <[hidden email]> wrote:

Stupid question maybe, but why does the LOC have to pay for this? Why is it not covered by OSGeo?

No good reason, just that's the way it has always been done.  My
initial side comment was questioning if we want to re-evaluate that
(which is probably a different thread rather than this thread about
what to do with Mailchimp for the next # months). It is not just
Mailchimp, the whole conference is more or less entirely completed
from scratch by the LOC with very little institutional continuity from
year to year.

I'll also point out that depending on how finances are configured,
sometimes OSGeo money and LOC money are the same thing and the
"difference" is mostly fictional.

Best regards, Eli


Best regards,

Bart

On 15-05-2020 22:17, Malena Libman wrote:

Thank for your answer Eli.

I think some of my answers are not as perfect in english as a thought they where.

I didn't mean we wanted to start to pay whenever we want, it's just that with no income for at least 4 months and the need to relieve the CLOC of the MailChimp expense now (the next charge is may 19th), we don't have the money yet to cover this.

As for the final comment, I also meant to agree with you, not to say that the CC should do any of our work.

Malena



El vie., 15 may. 2020 a las 17:10, Eli Adam (<[hidden email]>) escribió:

On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 12:48 PM Malena Libman <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi all,

For the FOSS4G BALOC, the issue right now is that we don't have the budget to support the mailchimp billing while we are not using it.

My question was more of, "When does BALOC want to send messages?"  And
not, "When does BALOC want to start paying for the service?"  Many
years, the next LOC is very ready to start sending messages the
day/week after the prior FOSS4G and sometimes (with careful
coordination) before the prior event.  If BALOC wants to start sending
messages in September (four months from now), we may want to just
leave it as is, even if BALOC doesn't yet take over payment of it.


We are working on locking the exact dates, but as long as we don't launch the CFP or the ticket sales, we don't need the mailing platform and it's imperative we reduce expenses considering the pandemic situation world wide and the precarious future of the conference.

Thanks Steven for the suggestion on archive method, maybe that's the best way to change the billing plan without downloading information to avoid the concerns that Mark mentions or losing important data.

As Eli mentioned, it would be good for us (as LOC) to know exactly which tasks are managed by the committee and which we need to take care of.

I think the typical approach is that the LOC does almost 100% of
everything and the Conference Committee does very little beyond the
initial selection and being available for guidance or advice or if
issues need input.  My (not directly related to this thread) comment
was about whether we would ever want to reconsider that and establish
some long term continuity that does some of the routine conference
logistics.  That was mere commentary on my part.

Best regards, Eli


Cheers

Malena

El vie., 15 may. 2020 a las 16:29, Eli Adam (<[hidden email]>) escribió:

I have some hesitancy to ever be in the situation of "we can't send
emails to our list" which could happen if we plan to migrate later (or
even, unarchive  later).  If there is some reliable method to increase
and decrease expense that doesn't conflict with other uses of that
function, that might be worthwhile if some individual wants to
reliably take that on.  Do we know when FOSS4G 2021 wants to start
sending messages?

I'm also open to evaluating options like https://phplist.com/pricing
if it were found to be equivalent (or better) and would support open
source software while doing it.  Generally, I think there is some
value to stability in things like this and we shouldn't be changing
too frequently.  Any change should be done in coordination with a LOC
(or if it were to be part of a more centrally managed service by the
Conference Committee).

For straight cost, +1 to what Darrell and Mark said.  This cost is
minor in the big picture.  Generally sysadmin time is one of the more
scarce resources around OSGeo and I think that is best reserved for
other functions that can't easily be done otherwise/elsewhere.  We
would need to talk to SAC before shifting responsibility of FOSS4G
emails going through correctly on tight timelines to them.

More generally, evaluating which tasks are managed centrally by the
Conference Committee and which are shuffled from LOC to LOC might be
worth a larger conversation (maybe on some other thread).

Best regards, Eli

On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 9:34 AM Darrell fuhriman <[hidden email]> wrote:

My general feeling on these things is that it’s worth the money to not put any more burden on volunteers than is necessary — especially if that burden can be easily outsourced for what is frankly a pretty small charge in the grand scheme of things.

If you can revert to free and then upgrade as necessary, that seems like an excellent investment to me.

Darrell

On May 15, 2020, at 08:52, María Arias de Reyna <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Conference Committee,

We just had a meeting with the Calgary team to give us the credentials
of the shared accounts by all LOCs.

We have a question regarding MailChimp. We understand this is an
interesting tool that has been widely used in the past. Right now it
has a cost of 93€/month.

Considering we are not going to widely use it in the next few months,
we are going to export all the contacts to convert it to a free plan
for the time being and then decide at a later stage what to do with
it. Possibly reimport all the contacts and pay again, if there is no
better alternative.

Can the Conference Committee discuss to have some FOSS version of
this, like PHPList (https://github.com/phpList/phplist3 ), on OSGeo
servers that will allow us to do the same without depending on an
external provider?

Cheers,
María.
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Re: Mailchimp

JonathanNeufeld

Hi All,

 

>How many contacts do we have?

The CLOC did a “permissions campaign” at the start of our engagement and asked everyone to opt-in to different levels of communication. Thus the list should contain only active and relevant contacts.

 

Cheers,

Jon

 

 

From: Conference_dev <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Steven Feldman
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 4:18 PM
To: Eli Adam <[hidden email]>; Malena Libman <[hidden email]>; OSGeo-Conf <[hidden email]>; Smith, Michael ERDC-RDE-CRREL-NH Civ <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Conf] Mailchimp

 

The first thing we should do is pause our MailChimp account billing:

 

If you have a paid monthly plan and don't need to send campaigns for a while, you can pause billing on your account. You can keep your account paused as long as you need to, but you’re limited to two pauses each year.

 

When you pause your account, we immediately end the current billing cycle and suspend sending functionality. You can still use Mailchimp to create and edit campaigns and templates, view reports, and make changes to your audience. We’ll even continue to manage new signups for you.

 

When you're ready to send campaigns again, you’ll need to purchase a plan to unpause your account.

 

I have also checked and here is what MailChimp says about archiving:

 

When you archive a contact, you remove them from the contact table and add them to a separate archived contacts page. As long as a contact remains archived, you won’t be able to edit their profile or send them any marketing communications. However, you’ll retain all of their data, including identifiable information in campaign reports. Archived contacts don’t count toward your billing. 

 

You can unarchive a contact at any time, and they’ll appear back in your audience with the appropriate email marketing status. A contact can also unarchive themselves if they sign up through your Mailchimp signup form or interact with your connected online store.

 

Seems to me that we should archive all of the contacts (perhaps doing a bit of segmentation before archiving to make it easier to selectively unarchive when we want to reactivate mailing).

 

How many contacts do we have? We should check that we are on the best MailChimp tier for our needs. It would be much easier to stick with MailChimp and manage our costs than try to set up a new system, find volunteers to do the sysadmin work and then worry about GDPR compliance etc. 

 

I suggest that the cost of the MailChimp is paid for by the Conference Committee. We have the unused budget for the TGP for 2020, we should ask OSGeo Board to allow us to use some of that budget for this purpose. We should continue to hold this as a “central” cost in the future and provide access to the account to a FOSS4G LOC (could be used by regional events as well as global if well set up). The quick way to do this could be to set the payment method to come via the OSGeo PayPal account (hence I have copied Michael Smith inas OSGeo Treasurer)

 

I run a MailChimp list for a small local charity, so I know my way around MailChimp. I’d be happy to have a look at how we are set up if there is no one else with more advanced MailChimp experience.

 

Hope this is helpful

 

Cheers

______
Steven

Unusual maps in strange places -  mappery.org

 

Subscribe to my weekly “Maps in the Wild” newsletter



On 15 May 2020, at 21:59, Eli Adam <[hidden email]> wrote:

 

On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 1:53 PM Bart van den Eijnden <[hidden email]> wrote:


Stupid question maybe, but why does the LOC have to pay for this? Why is it not covered by OSGeo?


No good reason, just that's the way it has always been done.  My
initial side comment was questioning if we want to re-evaluate that
(which is probably a different thread rather than this thread about
what to do with Mailchimp for the next # months). It is not just
Mailchimp, the whole conference is more or less entirely completed
from scratch by the LOC with very little institutional continuity from
year to year.

I'll also point out that depending on how finances are configured,
sometimes OSGeo money and LOC money are the same thing and the
"difference" is mostly fictional.

Best regards, Eli



Best regards,

Bart

On 15-05-2020 22:17, Malena Libman wrote:

Thank for your answer Eli.

I think some of my answers are not as perfect in english as a thought they where.

I didn't mean we wanted to start to pay whenever we want, it's just that with no income for at least 4 months and the need to relieve the CLOC of the MailChimp expense now (the next charge is may 19th), we don't have the money yet to cover this.

As for the final comment, I also meant to agree with you, not to say that the CC should do any of our work.

Malena



El vie., 15 may. 2020 a las 17:10, Eli Adam (<[hidden email]>) escribió:


On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 12:48 PM Malena Libman <[hidden email]> wrote:


Hi all,

For the FOSS4G BALOC, the issue right now is that we don't have the budget to support the mailchimp billing while we are not using it.


My question was more of, "When does BALOC want to send messages?"  And
not, "When does BALOC want to start paying for the service?"  Many
years, the next LOC is very ready to start sending messages the
day/week after the prior FOSS4G and sometimes (with careful
coordination) before the prior event.  If BALOC wants to start sending
messages in September (four months from now), we may want to just
leave it as is, even if BALOC doesn't yet take over payment of it.



We are working on locking the exact dates, but as long as we don't launch the CFP or the ticket sales, we don't need the mailing platform and it's imperative we reduce expenses considering the pandemic situation world wide and the precarious future of the conference.

Thanks Steven for the suggestion on archive method, maybe that's the best way to change the billing plan without downloading information to avoid the concerns that Mark mentions or losing important data.

As Eli mentioned, it would be good for us (as LOC) to know exactly which tasks are managed by the committee and which we need to take care of.


I think the typical approach is that the LOC does almost 100% of
everything and the Conference Committee does very little beyond the
initial selection and being available for guidance or advice or if
issues need input.  My (not directly related to this thread) comment
was about whether we would ever want to reconsider that and establish
some long term continuity that does some of the routine conference
logistics.  That was mere commentary on my part.

Best regards, Eli



Cheers

Malena

El vie., 15 may. 2020 a las 16:29, Eli Adam (<[hidden email]>) escribió:


I have some hesitancy to ever be in the situation of "we can't send
emails to our list" which could happen if we plan to migrate later (or
even, unarchive  later).  If there is some reliable method to increase
and decrease expense that doesn't conflict with other uses of that
function, that might be worthwhile if some individual wants to
reliably take that on.  Do we know when FOSS4G 2021 wants to start
sending messages?

I'm also open to evaluating options like https://phplist.com/pricing
if it were found to be equivalent (or better) and would support open
source software while doing it.  Generally, I think there is some
value to stability in things like this and we shouldn't be changing
too frequently.  Any change should be done in coordination with a LOC
(or if it were to be part of a more centrally managed service by the
Conference Committee).

For straight cost, +1 to what Darrell and Mark said.  This cost is
minor in the big picture.  Generally sysadmin time is one of the more
scarce resources around OSGeo and I think that is best reserved for
other functions that can't easily be done otherwise/elsewhere.  We
would need to talk to SAC before shifting responsibility of FOSS4G
emails going through correctly on tight timelines to them.

More generally, evaluating which tasks are managed centrally by the
Conference Committee and which are shuffled from LOC to LOC might be
worth a larger conversation (maybe on some other thread).

Best regards, Eli

On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 9:34 AM Darrell fuhriman <[hidden email]> wrote:


My general feeling on these things is that it’s worth the money to not put any more burden on volunteers than is necessary — especially if that burden can be easily outsourced for what is frankly a pretty small charge in the grand scheme of things.

If you can revert to free and then upgrade as necessary, that seems like an excellent investment to me.

Darrell


On May 15, 2020, at 08:52, María Arias de Reyna <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Conference Committee,

We just had a meeting with the Calgary team to give us the credentials
of the shared accounts by all LOCs.

We have a question regarding MailChimp. We understand this is an
interesting tool that has been widely used in the past. Right now it
has a cost of 93€/month.

Considering we are not going to widely use it in the next few months,
we are going to export all the contacts to convert it to a free plan
for the time being and then decide at a later stage what to do with
it. Possibly reimport all the contacts and pay again, if there is no
better alternative.

Can the Conference Committee discuss to have some FOSS version of
this, like PHPList (https://github.com/phpList/phplist3 ), on OSGeo
servers that will allow us to do the same without depending on an
external provider?

Cheers,
María.
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Re: Mailchimp

delawen
> >How many contacts do we have?

Slightly above 8300 contacts right now. Once we reach 10.000 it looks
like the price goes up to 230€/month, if I understood it correctly.
It's my first time with mailchimp so maybe I didn't get it right.

I understand the hesitancy on hosting our own version of marketing
campaigns lists. But also depending on an external provider for this
means that in a couple of years (when we reach 10.000, which we will
sooner or later), we will have to take a bigger monthly cost. Or when
mailchimp simply decides his vendor lock-in is good enough to raise
prices.

I don't think Calgary should pay for this either, as they are not
going to get any income. That would be totally unfair.
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Re: Mailchimp

stevenfeldman
Just pause the account and then the billing will stop. Then we can decide what we want to do rather than making rushed decisions

Regards
Steven


+44 (0) 7958 924101
Sent from my iPhone

> On 16 May 2020, at 10:36, María Arias de Reyna <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> 
>>
>>> How many contacts do we have?
>
> Slightly above 8300 contacts right now. Once we reach 10.000 it looks
> like the price goes up to 230€/month, if I understood it correctly.
> It's my first time with mailchimp so maybe I didn't get it right.
>
> I understand the hesitancy on hosting our own version of marketing
> campaigns lists. But also depending on an external provider for this
> means that in a couple of years (when we reach 10.000, which we will
> sooner or later), we will have to take a bigger monthly cost. Or when
> mailchimp simply decides his vendor lock-in is good enough to raise
> prices.
>
> I don't think Calgary should pay for this either, as they are not
> going to get any income. That would be totally unfair.
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Re: Mailchimp

delawen
In reply to this post by delawen
On Sat, May 16, 2020 at 11:35 AM María Arias de Reyna <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > >How many contacts do we have?
>
> Slightly above 8300 contacts right now. Once we reach 10.000 it looks
> like the price goes up to 230€/month, if I understood it correctly.

Big fat fingers: it is 280€/month.

I think this also somehow links to the idea of having a software stack
for conferences that is shared not only among international FOSS4G but
also with regional and local events. We are already working on
adapting and deploying a  Pretix/Pretalx/Eventfahr/... which should
cover everything a FOSS4G needs for selling tickets, C4P, mobile app
and such.

Once we "own" it and know our way around it, the idea was to propose
to have OSGeo hosting it (with our LOC doing at least the initial
deployment) so it is a stable software stack to use:
https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/local-chapters/2019-September/000157.html

On this initial stack we didn't consider an alternative for mailchimp,
mostly because we weren't aware of how big it was become :)

About GDPR, all the software chosen is GDPR compliant. We just have to
take care of not migrating data from one country to another without
prior notice and not adding data without previous consent. Which is
something current SAC should be already doing with things like the
OSGeo LDAP accounts.
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Re: Mailchimp

delawen
In reply to this post by stevenfeldman
On Sat, May 16, 2020 at 11:47 AM Steven Feldman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Just pause the account and then the billing will stop. Then we can decide what we want to do rather than making rushed decisions

Yes, you are right. I am waiting for Malena to wake up to check on it.
My mention of Calgary was more thinking on the past payments.

>
> Regards
> Steven
>
>
> +44 (0) 7958 924101
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On 16 May 2020, at 10:36, María Arias de Reyna <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > 
> >>
> >>> How many contacts do we have?
> >
> > Slightly above 8300 contacts right now. Once we reach 10.000 it looks
> > like the price goes up to 230€/month, if I understood it correctly.
> > It's my first time with mailchimp so maybe I didn't get it right.
> >
> > I understand the hesitancy on hosting our own version of marketing
> > campaigns lists. But also depending on an external provider for this
> > means that in a couple of years (when we reach 10.000, which we will
> > sooner or later), we will have to take a bigger monthly cost. Or when
> > mailchimp simply decides his vendor lock-in is good enough to raise
> > prices.
> >
> > I don't think Calgary should pay for this either, as they are not
> > going to get any income. That would be totally unfair.
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Re: Mailchimp

Codrina
In reply to this post by Bart van den Eijnden (OSGIS)-2
Hi Malena, Maria,

In fact, the OSGeo board approved within this year's Conference
Committee budget the payment of the annual fee for Mailchimp [1].

I will put you, Malena, in contact with Mike, the OSGEeo Treasurer, to
set up the details for the payment.


Cheers,
Codrina

[1] https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSGeo_Budget_2020


On 15/05/2020 23:24, Bart van den Eijnden wrote:

> Stupid question maybe, but why does the LOC have to pay for this? Why is
> it not covered by OSGeo?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Bart
>
> On 15-05-2020 22:17, Malena Libman wrote:
>> Thank for your answer Eli.
>>
>> I think some of my answers are not as perfect in english as a thought
>> they where.
>>
>> I didn't mean we wanted to start to pay whenever we want, it's just
>> that with no income for at least 4 months and the need to relieve the
>> CLOC of the MailChimp expense now (the next charge is may 19th), we
>> don't have the money yet to cover this.
>>
>> As for the final comment, I also meant to agree with you, not to say
>> that the CC should do any of our work.
>>
>> Malena
>>
>>
>>
>> El vie., 15 may. 2020 a las 17:10, Eli Adam (<[hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>>) escribió:
>>
>>     On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 12:48 PM Malena Libman
>>     <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>     >
>>     > Hi all,
>>     >
>>     > For the FOSS4G BALOC, the issue right now is that we don't have
>>     the budget to support the mailchimp billing while we are not using it.
>>
>>     My question was more of, "When does BALOC want to send messages?"  And
>>     not, "When does BALOC want to start paying for the service?" Many
>>     years, the next LOC is very ready to start sending messages the
>>     day/week after the prior FOSS4G and sometimes (with careful
>>     coordination) before the prior event.  If BALOC wants to start sending
>>     messages in September (four months from now), we may want to just
>>     leave it as is, even if BALOC doesn't yet take over payment of it.
>>
>>     >
>>     > We are working on locking the exact dates, but as long as we
>>     don't launch the CFP or the ticket sales, we don't need the
>>     mailing platform and it's imperative we reduce expenses
>>     considering the pandemic situation world wide and the precarious
>>     future of the conference.
>>     >
>>     > Thanks Steven for the suggestion on archive method, maybe that's
>>     the best way to change the billing plan without downloading
>>     information to avoid the concerns that Mark mentions or losing
>>     important data.
>>     >
>>     > As Eli mentioned, it would be good for us (as LOC) to know
>>     exactly which tasks are managed by the committee and which we need
>>     to take care of.
>>
>>     I think the typical approach is that the LOC does almost 100% of
>>     everything and the Conference Committee does very little beyond the
>>     initial selection and being available for guidance or advice or if
>>     issues need input.  My (not directly related to this thread) comment
>>     was about whether we would ever want to reconsider that and establish
>>     some long term continuity that does some of the routine conference
>>     logistics.  That was mere commentary on my part.
>>
>>     Best regards, Eli
>>
>>     >
>>     > Cheers
>>     >
>>     > Malena
>>     >
>>     > El vie., 15 may. 2020 a las 16:29, Eli Adam
>>     (<[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>) escribió:
>>     >>
>>     >> I have some hesitancy to ever be in the situation of "we can't send
>>     >> emails to our list" which could happen if we plan to migrate
>>     later (or
>>     >> even, unarchive  later).  If there is some reliable method to
>>     increase
>>     >> and decrease expense that doesn't conflict with other uses of that
>>     >> function, that might be worthwhile if some individual wants to
>>     >> reliably take that on.  Do we know when FOSS4G 2021 wants to start
>>     >> sending messages?
>>     >>
>>     >> I'm also open to evaluating options like
>>     https://phplist.com/pricing
>>     >> if it were found to be equivalent (or better) and would support
>>     open
>>     >> source software while doing it.  Generally, I think there is some
>>     >> value to stability in things like this and we shouldn't be changing
>>     >> too frequently.  Any change should be done in coordination with
>>     a LOC
>>     >> (or if it were to be part of a more centrally managed service
>>     by the
>>     >> Conference Committee).
>>     >>
>>     >> For straight cost, +1 to what Darrell and Mark said. This cost is
>>     >> minor in the big picture.  Generally sysadmin time is one of
>>     the more
>>     >> scarce resources around OSGeo and I think that is best reserved for
>>     >> other functions that can't easily be done otherwise/elsewhere.  We
>>     >> would need to talk to SAC before shifting responsibility of FOSS4G
>>     >> emails going through correctly on tight timelines to them.
>>     >>
>>     >> More generally, evaluating which tasks are managed centrally by the
>>     >> Conference Committee and which are shuffled from LOC to LOC
>>     might be
>>     >> worth a larger conversation (maybe on some other thread).
>>     >>
>>     >> Best regards, Eli
>>     >>
>>     >> On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 9:34 AM Darrell fuhriman
>>     <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>     >> >
>>     >> > My general feeling on these things is that it’s worth the
>>     money to not put any more burden on volunteers than is necessary —
>>     especially if that burden can be easily outsourced for what is
>>     frankly a pretty small charge in the grand scheme of things.
>>     >> >
>>     >> > If you can revert to free and then upgrade as necessary, that
>>     seems like an excellent investment to me.
>>     >> >
>>     >> > Darrell
>>     >> >
>>     >> > > On May 15, 2020, at 08:52, María Arias de Reyna
>>     <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>     >> > >
>>     >> > > Dear Conference Committee,
>>     >> > >
>>     >> > > We just had a meeting with the Calgary team to give us the
>>     credentials
>>     >> > > of the shared accounts by all LOCs.
>>     >> > >
>>     >> > > We have a question regarding MailChimp. We understand this
>>     is an
>>     >> > > interesting tool that has been widely used in the past.
>>     Right now it
>>     >> > > has a cost of 93€/month.
>>     >> > >
>>     >> > > Considering we are not going to widely use it in the next
>>     few months,
>>     >> > > we are going to export all the contacts to convert it to a
>>     free plan
>>     >> > > for the time being and then decide at a later stage what to
>>     do with
>>     >> > > it. Possibly reimport all the contacts and pay again, if
>>     there is no
>>     >> > > better alternative.
>>     >> > >
>>     >> > > Can the Conference Committee discuss to have some FOSS
>>     version of
>>     >> > > this, like PHPList (https://github.com/phpList/phplist3 ),
>>     on OSGeo
>>     >> > > servers that will allow us to do the same without depending
>>     on an
>>     >> > > external provider?
>>     >> > >
>>     >> > > Cheers,
>>     >> > > María.
>>     >> > > _______________________________________________
>>     >> > > Conference_dev mailing list
>>     >> > > [hidden email]
>>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>     >> > > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
>>     >> > _______________________________________________
>>     >> > Conference_dev mailing list
>>     >> > [hidden email]
>>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>     >> > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
>>     >> _______________________________________________
>>     >> Conference_dev mailing list
>>     >> [hidden email]
>>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>     >> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> [hidden email]
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Re: Mailchimp

stevenfeldman
In reply to this post by delawen
I’m not sure where you are finding the costs? I looked at https://mailchimp.com/pricing/ and if we are on the Basic plan 10,000 contacts would cost $75 per month or 15,000 contacts would cost $129 per month - I wonder if we are on the their old pricing or have signed up for extra features that we may not need? I doubt we need more than the Basic level.

BTW if we archive contacts then they do not count towards our total for billing, so we could archive some segments when we are using the account to keep below the 10,000 contact limit 


If we have what MailChimp call a legacy account, i.e. on their old pricing plan for accounts created before 15 May 2019) then the instructions for pausing are at https://mailchimp.com/help/change-pause-legacy-plan/ 

If you want me to have a look at the account, the pricing and suggest the best way forward I am happy to do that.

Running our own mail campaign software is an option but it will require volunteer time to set up and to manage going forward and it becomes less sustainable if the knowledge is only with one or two volunteers and they are not available. Maintaining our list in MailChimp and pausing the account between events means that the cost could be as low as a few hundred dollars per year. Surely Conference Committee (or Marketing?) should pick up this cost and make available to all of our FOSS4G events who want to use it.

Stay safe

______
Steven

Unusual maps in strange places -  mappery.org

Subscribe to my weekly “Maps in the Wild” newsletter

On 16 May 2020, at 10:48, María Arias de Reyna <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Sat, May 16, 2020 at 11:35 AM María Arias de Reyna <[hidden email]> wrote:

How many contacts do we have?

Slightly above 8300 contacts right now. Once we reach 10.000 it looks
like the price goes up to 230€/month, if I understood it correctly.

Big fat fingers: it is 280€/month.

I think this also somehow links to the idea of having a software stack
for conferences that is shared not only among international FOSS4G but
also with regional and local events. We are already working on
adapting and deploying a  Pretix/Pretalx/Eventfahr/... which should
cover everything a FOSS4G needs for selling tickets, C4P, mobile app
and such.

Once we "own" it and know our way around it, the idea was to propose
to have OSGeo hosting it (with our LOC doing at least the initial
deployment) so it is a stable software stack to use:
https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/local-chapters/2019-September/000157.html

On this initial stack we didn't consider an alternative for mailchimp,
mostly because we weren't aware of how big it was become :)

About GDPR, all the software chosen is GDPR compliant. We just have to
take care of not migrating data from one country to another without
prior notice and not adding data without previous consent. Which is
something current SAC should be already doing with things like the
OSGeo LDAP accounts.


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12