LGBT in Tanzania

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LGBT in Tanzania

delawen
Hi,

I'm following this conversation on HOT:


Is this real? Do this year's organisation have a plan? Is it legacy deprecated laws or are they being applied? Do we have a problem with LGBT+ next FOSS4G? Should we warn the community? Can we do something about it?

Regards,
Maria.

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Re: LGBT in Tanzania

Mark Iliffe-2
Hi Maria,

Yes, it is partly. Our LOC is formalising a partnership with HOT currently, as per an earlier email to the list, and this is our first topic of discussion. With regard to the legislation, it is unfortunately a legacy from the colonial times, as someone who had lived there for 6 years in a vibrant international community, I am yet to see an instance where these laws have been applied - however, I stress, this is my personal view.

Our plan is to hold further consultations with the OSGEO LGBT+ community and I have personally reached out to those in a  position of responsibility within this intersection for further advice. I assisted HOT with drafting their initial response [1] to this concern also. 

As the FOSS4G 2018 co-chair, I would welcome that people share their concerns publicly, or if they wish, privately with myself. But on behalf of the LOC, I stress that our stated vision in both our proposal and now, through our website, is to the most inclusive FOSS4G that we can be. We, as a LOC, are firmly committed to equality, regardless of sexual orientation, gender, race, and creed. We want to provide the safest possible space at this year's FOSS4G, setting this out in both our vision and Code of Conduct [2].

We will be discussing this in our weekly LOC meeting tomorrow and I will, in due course, feedback to this list.

Best,

Mark Iliffe
2018 FOSS4G Co-Chair



On 19 February 2018 at 16:00, María Arias de Reyna <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

I'm following this conversation on HOT:


Is this real? Do this year's organisation have a plan? Is it legacy deprecated laws or are they being applied? Do we have a problem with LGBT+ next FOSS4G? Should we warn the community? Can we do something about it?

Regards,
Maria.

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https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev


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Re: LGBT in Tanzania

delawen
Thanks Mark, any further information will be very helpful :)

El 19 feb. 2018 10:45 p. m., "Mark Iliffe" <[hidden email]> escribió:
Hi Maria,

Yes, it is partly. Our LOC is formalising a partnership with HOT currently, as per an earlier email to the list, and this is our first topic of discussion. With regard to the legislation, it is unfortunately a legacy from the colonial times, as someone who had lived there for 6 years in a vibrant international community, I am yet to see an instance where these laws have been applied - however, I stress, this is my personal view.

Our plan is to hold further consultations with the OSGEO LGBT+ community and I have personally reached out to those in a  position of responsibility within this intersection for further advice. I assisted HOT with drafting their initial response [1] to this concern also. 

As the FOSS4G 2018 co-chair, I would welcome that people share their concerns publicly, or if they wish, privately with myself. But on behalf of the LOC, I stress that our stated vision in both our proposal and now, through our website, is to the most inclusive FOSS4G that we can be. We, as a LOC, are firmly committed to equality, regardless of sexual orientation, gender, race, and creed. We want to provide the safest possible space at this year's FOSS4G, setting this out in both our vision and Code of Conduct [2].

We will be discussing this in our weekly LOC meeting tomorrow and I will, in due course, feedback to this list.

Best,

Mark Iliffe
2018 FOSS4G Co-Chair



On 19 February 2018 at 16:00, María Arias de Reyna <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

I'm following this conversation on HOT:


Is this real? Do this year's organisation have a plan? Is it legacy deprecated laws or are they being applied? Do we have a problem with LGBT+ next FOSS4G? Should we warn the community? Can we do something about it?

Regards,
Maria.

_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev


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Re: LGBT in Tanzania

Bart van den Eijnden (OSGIS)-2

Shouldn't this be part of our selection criteria for the next conferences?

Best regards,

Bart


On 19-02-18 22:48, María Arias de Reyna wrote:
Thanks Mark, any further information will be very helpful :)

El 19 feb. 2018 10:45 p. m., "Mark Iliffe" <[hidden email]> escribió:
Hi Maria,

Yes, it is partly. Our LOC is formalising a partnership with HOT currently, as per an earlier email to the list, and this is our first topic of discussion. With regard to the legislation, it is unfortunately a legacy from the colonial times, as someone who had lived there for 6 years in a vibrant international community, I am yet to see an instance where these laws have been applied - however, I stress, this is my personal view.

Our plan is to hold further consultations with the OSGEO LGBT+ community and I have personally reached out to those in a  position of responsibility within this intersection for further advice. I assisted HOT with drafting their initial response [1] to this concern also. 

As the FOSS4G 2018 co-chair, I would welcome that people share their concerns publicly, or if they wish, privately with myself. But on behalf of the LOC, I stress that our stated vision in both our proposal and now, through our website, is to the most inclusive FOSS4G that we can be. We, as a LOC, are firmly committed to equality, regardless of sexual orientation, gender, race, and creed. We want to provide the safest possible space at this year's FOSS4G, setting this out in both our vision and Code of Conduct [2].

We will be discussing this in our weekly LOC meeting tomorrow and I will, in due course, feedback to this list.

Best,

Mark Iliffe
2018 FOSS4G Co-Chair



On 19 February 2018 at 16:00, María Arias de Reyna <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

I'm following this conversation on HOT:


Is this real? Do this year's organisation have a plan? Is it legacy deprecated laws or are they being applied? Do we have a problem with LGBT+ next FOSS4G? Should we warn the community? Can we do something about it?

Regards,
Maria.

_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev



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Re: LGBT in Tanzania

delawen
Hi,

At least, I would consider this as a factor: security.

I am used to not being able to travel freely everywhere, but maybe... Maybe I shouldn't have to skip conferences because of this. What is more important, getting the conference venue on sensitive places or having everybody allowed to travel freely?

At least for Tanzania I plan to go, but I already assumed I am not going to do any tourism or any walk around besides the hotel, airport and conference venue. It's just going to be the conference, which is not as bad as it may sound :) At least I "only" have to hide my body (as suggestions from https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/tanzania/local-laws-and-customs ), which is going to be more difficult than you think. I am not used to hiding arms and legs when there are hot temperatures :)

Anyway, this kind of advices are better if they are made by the conference organization than if they are made by some embassy. It is not the same travelling to a big city than travelling to a small town.


On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 9:03 AM, Bart van den Eijnden <[hidden email]> wrote:

Shouldn't this be part of our selection criteria for the next conferences?

Best regards,

Bart


On 19-02-18 22:48, María Arias de Reyna wrote:
Thanks Mark, any further information will be very helpful :)

El 19 feb. 2018 10:45 p. m., "Mark Iliffe" <[hidden email]> escribió:
Hi Maria,

Yes, it is partly. Our LOC is formalising a partnership with HOT currently, as per an earlier email to the list, and this is our first topic of discussion. With regard to the legislation, it is unfortunately a legacy from the colonial times, as someone who had lived there for 6 years in a vibrant international community, I am yet to see an instance where these laws have been applied - however, I stress, this is my personal view.

Our plan is to hold further consultations with the OSGEO LGBT+ community and I have personally reached out to those in a  position of responsibility within this intersection for further advice. I assisted HOT with drafting their initial response [1] to this concern also. 

As the FOSS4G 2018 co-chair, I would welcome that people share their concerns publicly, or if they wish, privately with myself. But on behalf of the LOC, I stress that our stated vision in both our proposal and now, through our website, is to the most inclusive FOSS4G that we can be. We, as a LOC, are firmly committed to equality, regardless of sexual orientation, gender, race, and creed. We want to provide the safest possible space at this year's FOSS4G, setting this out in both our vision and Code of Conduct [2].

We will be discussing this in our weekly LOC meeting tomorrow and I will, in due course, feedback to this list.

Best,

Mark Iliffe
2018 FOSS4G Co-Chair



On 19 February 2018 at 16:00, María Arias de Reyna <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

I'm following this conversation on HOT:


Is this real? Do this year's organisation have a plan? Is it legacy deprecated laws or are they being applied? Do we have a problem with LGBT+ next FOSS4G? Should we warn the community? Can we do something about it?

Regards,
Maria.

_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev



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https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev


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Re: LGBT in Tanzania

stevenfeldman
We have never thought about this in the selection process. Should we? I am not sure. 

There are so many countries that have legal and societal norms that are discriminatory against one group or another - think LGBTQ, religion, visa restrictions on entry - the list will be quite long.

Just on the LGBTQ legislation there are 73 countries that are shown at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory Should we be excluding these countries from hosting FOSS4G or should we be providing guidance to our community on the constraints of attending an event in these countries? We are committed to promoting diversity but it could be that in doing that we limit diversity.

No answers, just some questions.

For 2018 we can ask the LOC to provide security information to all delegates (ideally in advance of registration). For future years we need guidance from the Board as to how to proceed.
______
Steven


On 20 Feb 2018, at 08:36, María Arias de Reyna <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

At least, I would consider this as a factor: security.

I am used to not being able to travel freely everywhere, but maybe... Maybe I shouldn't have to skip conferences because of this. What is more important, getting the conference venue on sensitive places or having everybody allowed to travel freely?

At least for Tanzania I plan to go, but I already assumed I am not going to do any tourism or any walk around besides the hotel, airport and conference venue. It's just going to be the conference, which is not as bad as it may sound :) At least I "only" have to hide my body (as suggestions from https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/tanzania/local-laws-and-customs ), which is going to be more difficult than you think. I am not used to hiding arms and legs when there are hot temperatures :)

Anyway, this kind of advices are better if they are made by the conference organization than if they are made by some embassy. It is not the same travelling to a big city than travelling to a small town.


On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 9:03 AM, Bart van den Eijnden <[hidden email]> wrote:

Shouldn't this be part of our selection criteria for the next conferences?

Best regards,

Bart


On 19-02-18 22:48, María Arias de Reyna wrote:
Thanks Mark, any further information will be very helpful :)

El 19 feb. 2018 10:45 p. m., "Mark Iliffe" <[hidden email]> escribió:
Hi Maria,

Yes, it is partly. Our LOC is formalising a partnership with HOT currently, as per an earlier email to the list, and this is our first topic of discussion. With regard to the legislation, it is unfortunately a legacy from the colonial times, as someone who had lived there for 6 years in a vibrant international community, I am yet to see an instance where these laws have been applied - however, I stress, this is my personal view.

Our plan is to hold further consultations with the OSGEO LGBT+ community and I have personally reached out to those in a  position of responsibility within this intersection for further advice. I assisted HOT with drafting their initial response [1] to this concern also. 

As the FOSS4G 2018 co-chair, I would welcome that people share their concerns publicly, or if they wish, privately with myself. But on behalf of the LOC, I stress that our stated vision in both our proposal and now, through our website, is to the most inclusive FOSS4G that we can be. We, as a LOC, are firmly committed to equality, regardless of sexual orientation, gender, race, and creed. We want to provide the safest possible space at this year's FOSS4G, setting this out in both our vision and Code of Conduct [2].

We will be discussing this in our weekly LOC meeting tomorrow and I will, in due course, feedback to this list.

Best,

Mark Iliffe
2018 FOSS4G Co-Chair



On 19 February 2018 at 16:00, María Arias de Reyna <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

I'm following this conversation on HOT:


Is this real? Do this year's organisation have a plan? Is it legacy deprecated laws or are they being applied? Do we have a problem with LGBT+ next FOSS4G? Should we warn the community? Can we do something about it?

Regards,
Maria.

_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev



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Re: LGBT in Tanzania

delawen
Hi Steven,

This is a complex issue and there is no clear answer. There is no win-win here. Whatever we do is going to be a problem to someone.

In the WIT (women in tech) field we have discussed this several times and usually the topic ends with the following question: Should we ban racists/misogynist/... even when they are majority to allow discriminated people to participate? Or should we allow them to participate... making life more complicated for discriminated people? What is more important here?

I have a strong personal opinion in this matter, but sure, I am not objective here. There are countries I can't visit. And there are even more countries I can't visit and be fully myself, but I can visit if I risk and keep a low profile.

Getting FOSS4G to "close" countries may help them open. Or not. But what is sure is that if we organize FOSS4G in some specific countries, some of us can't go. Not Tanzania, not this year. But this is an issue we will have to face sooner or later. Or we may even want to avoid travelling to some countries because, you know, we don't want to be discriminated: https://qz.com/1166305/world-chess-champion-anna-muzychuks-stand-against-saudi-arabias-misogyny-will-cost-her-two-titles/

This is no minor issue and I am happy we are facing it.

Regards,
María.



On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 12:43 PM, Steven Feldman <[hidden email]> wrote:
We have never thought about this in the selection process. Should we? I am not sure. 

There are so many countries that have legal and societal norms that are discriminatory against one group or another - think LGBTQ, religion, visa restrictions on entry - the list will be quite long.

Just on the LGBTQ legislation there are 73 countries that are shown at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory Should we be excluding these countries from hosting FOSS4G or should we be providing guidance to our community on the constraints of attending an event in these countries? We are committed to promoting diversity but it could be that in doing that we limit diversity.

No answers, just some questions.

For 2018 we can ask the LOC to provide security information to all delegates (ideally in advance of registration). For future years we need guidance from the Board as to how to proceed.
______
Steven


On 20 Feb 2018, at 08:36, María Arias de Reyna <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

At least, I would consider this as a factor: security.

I am used to not being able to travel freely everywhere, but maybe... Maybe I shouldn't have to skip conferences because of this. What is more important, getting the conference venue on sensitive places or having everybody allowed to travel freely?

At least for Tanzania I plan to go, but I already assumed I am not going to do any tourism or any walk around besides the hotel, airport and conference venue. It's just going to be the conference, which is not as bad as it may sound :) At least I "only" have to hide my body (as suggestions from https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/tanzania/local-laws-and-customs ), which is going to be more difficult than you think. I am not used to hiding arms and legs when there are hot temperatures :)

Anyway, this kind of advices are better if they are made by the conference organization than if they are made by some embassy. It is not the same travelling to a big city than travelling to a small town.


On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 9:03 AM, Bart van den Eijnden <[hidden email]> wrote:

Shouldn't this be part of our selection criteria for the next conferences?

Best regards,

Bart


On 19-02-18 22:48, María Arias de Reyna wrote:
Thanks Mark, any further information will be very helpful :)

El 19 feb. 2018 10:45 p. m., "Mark Iliffe" <[hidden email]> escribió:
Hi Maria,

Yes, it is partly. Our LOC is formalising a partnership with HOT currently, as per an earlier email to the list, and this is our first topic of discussion. With regard to the legislation, it is unfortunately a legacy from the colonial times, as someone who had lived there for 6 years in a vibrant international community, I am yet to see an instance where these laws have been applied - however, I stress, this is my personal view.

Our plan is to hold further consultations with the OSGEO LGBT+ community and I have personally reached out to those in a  position of responsibility within this intersection for further advice. I assisted HOT with drafting their initial response [1] to this concern also. 

As the FOSS4G 2018 co-chair, I would welcome that people share their concerns publicly, or if they wish, privately with myself. But on behalf of the LOC, I stress that our stated vision in both our proposal and now, through our website, is to the most inclusive FOSS4G that we can be. We, as a LOC, are firmly committed to equality, regardless of sexual orientation, gender, race, and creed. We want to provide the safest possible space at this year's FOSS4G, setting this out in both our vision and Code of Conduct [2].

We will be discussing this in our weekly LOC meeting tomorrow and I will, in due course, feedback to this list.

Best,

Mark Iliffe
2018 FOSS4G Co-Chair



On 19 February 2018 at 16:00, María Arias de Reyna <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

I'm following this conversation on HOT:


Is this real? Do this year's organisation have a plan? Is it legacy deprecated laws or are they being applied? Do we have a problem with LGBT+ next FOSS4G? Should we warn the community? Can we do something about it?

Regards,
Maria.

_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev



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https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev


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Re: LGBT in Tanzania

Cameron Shorter

I'm of the opinion that international conferences such as FOSS4G have the potential to positively influence equality issues within countries around the world.

Tourism departments from within countries around the world vie with each other to attract tourists via conferences and other big events. I think that our FOSS4G selection criteria should include a statement along the lines of:

"The OSGeo Foundation is committed to equality as per our Code of Conduct. Please explain how the laws within your country ensure that ALL members of our OGeo community will be welcomed and safe within your country."

I suspect we could reach out to WIT and LGBT communities to help provide better wording and reference material.


On 20/2/18 11:02 pm, María Arias de Reyna wrote:
Hi Steven,

This is a complex issue and there is no clear answer. There is no win-win here. Whatever we do is going to be a problem to someone.

In the WIT (women in tech) field we have discussed this several times and usually the topic ends with the following question: Should we ban racists/misogynist/... even when they are majority to allow discriminated people to participate? Or should we allow them to participate... making life more complicated for discriminated people? What is more important here?

I have a strong personal opinion in this matter, but sure, I am not objective here. There are countries I can't visit. And there are even more countries I can't visit and be fully myself, but I can visit if I risk and keep a low profile.

Getting FOSS4G to "close" countries may help them open. Or not. But what is sure is that if we organize FOSS4G in some specific countries, some of us can't go. Not Tanzania, not this year. But this is an issue we will have to face sooner or later. Or we may even want to avoid travelling to some countries because, you know, we don't want to be discriminated: https://qz.com/1166305/world-chess-champion-anna-muzychuks-stand-against-saudi-arabias-misogyny-will-cost-her-two-titles/

This is no minor issue and I am happy we are facing it.

Regards,
María.



On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 12:43 PM, Steven Feldman <[hidden email]> wrote:
We have never thought about this in the selection process. Should we? I am not sure. 

There are so many countries that have legal and societal norms that are discriminatory against one group or another - think LGBTQ, religion, visa restrictions on entry - the list will be quite long.

Just on the LGBTQ legislation there are 73 countries that are shown at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory Should we be excluding these countries from hosting FOSS4G or should we be providing guidance to our community on the constraints of attending an event in these countries? We are committed to promoting diversity but it could be that in doing that we limit diversity.

No answers, just some questions.

For 2018 we can ask the LOC to provide security information to all delegates (ideally in advance of registration). For future years we need guidance from the Board as to how to proceed.
______
Steven


On 20 Feb 2018, at 08:36, María Arias de Reyna <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

At least, I would consider this as a factor: security.

I am used to not being able to travel freely everywhere, but maybe... Maybe I shouldn't have to skip conferences because of this. What is more important, getting the conference venue on sensitive places or having everybody allowed to travel freely?

At least for Tanzania I plan to go, but I already assumed I am not going to do any tourism or any walk around besides the hotel, airport and conference venue. It's just going to be the conference, which is not as bad as it may sound :) At least I "only" have to hide my body (as suggestions from https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/tanzania/local-laws-and-customs ), which is going to be more difficult than you think. I am not used to hiding arms and legs when there are hot temperatures :)

Anyway, this kind of advices are better if they are made by the conference organization than if they are made by some embassy. It is not the same travelling to a big city than travelling to a small town.


On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 9:03 AM, Bart van den Eijnden <[hidden email]> wrote:

Shouldn't this be part of our selection criteria for the next conferences?

Best regards,

Bart


On 19-02-18 22:48, María Arias de Reyna wrote:
Thanks Mark, any further information will be very helpful :)

El 19 feb. 2018 10:45 p. m., "Mark Iliffe" <[hidden email]> escribió:
Hi Maria,

Yes, it is partly. Our LOC is formalising a partnership with HOT currently, as per an earlier email to the list, and this is our first topic of discussion. With regard to the legislation, it is unfortunately a legacy from the colonial times, as someone who had lived there for 6 years in a vibrant international community, I am yet to see an instance where these laws have been applied - however, I stress, this is my personal view.

Our plan is to hold further consultations with the OSGEO LGBT+ community and I have personally reached out to those in a  position of responsibility within this intersection for further advice. I assisted HOT with drafting their initial response [1] to this concern also. 

As the FOSS4G 2018 co-chair, I would welcome that people share their concerns publicly, or if they wish, privately with myself. But on behalf of the LOC, I stress that our stated vision in both our proposal and now, through our website, is to the most inclusive FOSS4G that we can be. We, as a LOC, are firmly committed to equality, regardless of sexual orientation, gender, race, and creed. We want to provide the safest possible space at this year's FOSS4G, setting this out in both our vision and Code of Conduct [2].

We will be discussing this in our weekly LOC meeting tomorrow and I will, in due course, feedback to this list.

Best,

Mark Iliffe
2018 FOSS4G Co-Chair



On 19 February 2018 at 16:00, María Arias de Reyna <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

I'm following this conversation on HOT:


Is this real? Do this year's organisation have a plan? Is it legacy deprecated laws or are they being applied? Do we have a problem with LGBT+ next FOSS4G? Should we warn the community? Can we do something about it?

Regards,
Maria.

_______________________________________________
Conference_dev mailing list
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https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev



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-- 
Cameron Shorter
Technology Demystifier, Learnosity
Open Technologies Consultant

M +61 (0) 419 142 254

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Re: LGBT in Tanzania

Mark Iliffe-2
In reply to this post by delawen
Hello All, 

This is a dialogue that we, as the DLOC, will continue to have. And I agree with some of the comments made by both Steven and Maria and will we endeavor to provide as much guidance and information as possible. However, I would like to strike an optimistic line here, specifically with regard to the UK Foreign Office (FCO) policy that you've raised, but part of this is to understand the local cultural nuances and geography. 

The recommendation on the FCO is to dress modestly in Zanzibar, with a focus on the Northern Pemba Island. The Union of Tanzania, is composed of Tanganyika (on the mainland African continental mass) and Zanzibar (spice islands roughly 20 miles off the mainland coast). Our conference is occurring in Dar es Salaam on the mainland - to stress, there is a vast difference here. We are considering, in liaison with the QGIS community, to hold our code sprint in Zanzibar, we will update the list on this. We are currently working on producing information guides for FOSS4G 2018, review and comment when these are created is very welcome.

To help move forward on this, we will 1. Ensure that we provide guidance to those in our community on this issue; 2. Seek dialog within our community on this issue, I am personally contactable on this and fully welcome any and all people who wish to discuss this on a face-to-face (over VC) or any other medium that the community would feel better with; 3. Recommend that the board puts in place guidance for future OSGEO conferences other this issues; 4. Support the formation of an LGBT+ grouping within OSGEO to better support appropriate guidance on this issue.

Best,

Mark

On 20 February 2018 at 07:02, María Arias de Reyna <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Steven,

This is a complex issue and there is no clear answer. There is no win-win here. Whatever we do is going to be a problem to someone.

In the WIT (women in tech) field we have discussed this several times and usually the topic ends with the following question: Should we ban racists/misogynist/... even when they are majority to allow discriminated people to participate? Or should we allow them to participate... making life more complicated for discriminated people? What is more important here?

I have a strong personal opinion in this matter, but sure, I am not objective here. There are countries I can't visit. And there are even more countries I can't visit and be fully myself, but I can visit if I risk and keep a low profile.

Getting FOSS4G to "close" countries may help them open. Or not. But what is sure is that if we organize FOSS4G in some specific countries, some of us can't go. Not Tanzania, not this year. But this is an issue we will have to face sooner or later. Or we may even want to avoid travelling to some countries because, you know, we don't want to be discriminated: https://qz.com/1166305/world-chess-champion-anna-muzychuks-stand-against-saudi-arabias-misogyny-will-cost-her-two-titles/

This is no minor issue and I am happy we are facing it.

Regards,
María.



On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 12:43 PM, Steven Feldman <[hidden email]> wrote:
We have never thought about this in the selection process. Should we? I am not sure. 

There are so many countries that have legal and societal norms that are discriminatory against one group or another - think LGBTQ, religion, visa restrictions on entry - the list will be quite long.

Just on the LGBTQ legislation there are 73 countries that are shown at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory Should we be excluding these countries from hosting FOSS4G or should we be providing guidance to our community on the constraints of attending an event in these countries? We are committed to promoting diversity but it could be that in doing that we limit diversity.

No answers, just some questions.

For 2018 we can ask the LOC to provide security information to all delegates (ideally in advance of registration). For future years we need guidance from the Board as to how to proceed.
______
Steven


On 20 Feb 2018, at 08:36, María Arias de Reyna <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi,

At least, I would consider this as a factor: security.

I am used to not being able to travel freely everywhere, but maybe... Maybe I shouldn't have to skip conferences because of this. What is more important, getting the conference venue on sensitive places or having everybody allowed to travel freely?

At least for Tanzania I plan to go, but I already assumed I am not going to do any tourism or any walk around besides the hotel, airport and conference venue. It's just going to be the conference, which is not as bad as it may sound :) At least I "only" have to hide my body (as suggestions from https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/tanzania/local-laws-and-customs ), which is going to be more difficult than you think. I am not used to hiding arms and legs when there are hot temperatures :)

Anyway, this kind of advices are better if they are made by the conference organization than if they are made by some embassy. It is not the same travelling to a big city than travelling to a small town.


On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 9:03 AM, Bart van den Eijnden <[hidden email]> wrote:

Shouldn't this be part of our selection criteria for the next conferences?

Best regards,

Bart


On 19-02-18 22:48, María Arias de Reyna wrote:
Thanks Mark, any further information will be very helpful :)

El 19 feb. 2018 10:45 p. m., "Mark Iliffe" <[hidden email]> escribió:
Hi Maria,

Yes, it is partly. Our LOC is formalising a partnership with HOT currently, as per an earlier email to the list, and this is our first topic of discussion. With regard to the legislation, it is unfortunately a legacy from the colonial times, as someone who had lived there for 6 years in a vibrant international community, I am yet to see an instance where these laws have been applied - however, I stress, this is my personal view.

Our plan is to hold further consultations with the OSGEO LGBT+ community and I have personally reached out to those in a  position of responsibility within this intersection for further advice. I assisted HOT with drafting their initial response [1] to this concern also. 

As the FOSS4G 2018 co-chair, I would welcome that people share their concerns publicly, or if they wish, privately with myself. But on behalf of the LOC, I stress that our stated vision in both our proposal and now, through our website, is to the most inclusive FOSS4G that we can be. We, as a LOC, are firmly committed to equality, regardless of sexual orientation, gender, race, and creed. We want to provide the safest possible space at this year's FOSS4G, setting this out in both our vision and Code of Conduct [2].

We will be discussing this in our weekly LOC meeting tomorrow and I will, in due course, feedback to this list.

Best,

Mark Iliffe
2018 FOSS4G Co-Chair



On 19 February 2018 at 16:00, María Arias de Reyna <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

I'm following this conversation on HOT:


Is this real? Do this year's organisation have a plan? Is it legacy deprecated laws or are they being applied? Do we have a problem with LGBT+ next FOSS4G? Should we warn the community? Can we do something about it?

Regards,
Maria.

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Re: LGBT in Tanzania

Darrell Fuhriman
In reply to this post by stevenfeldman
There are some problematic US States, as well.

Indeed, but I think it’s important to weigh those against a commitment to inclusion. If we want OSGeo and FOSS4G to be reflective of the diversity of the community then we need to be willing to stand up for that —even if it means excluding some places. This is the so-called “paradox of tolerance.” The idea that preserving a tolerant society requires being intolerant of intolerance.

Frankly, I’m ashamed of myself for not having thought of making this part of the requirements until it was raised by María.

I should have, as this issue has been in the news here in the US recently. For instance, many organizations canceled events in North Carolina after the passage of HB 2, and it was a major concern for FOSS4G-NA in 2016, which had already chosen and made arrangements to have the conference in NC when HB 2 was passed.  (HB 2 has since been repealed, but…) See: https://2016.foss4g-na.org/ncga.html

I think it’s reasonable to include in  the RFP a question like the following:

"FOSS4G attracts a global, diverse community. Are there any laws, or social norms, in your proposed location that would make members of our community feel unsafe or unwelcome? That could include, but is not limited to, anti-LGBTQ+ policies, policies that would prevent the free exercise of religion, restrictions on certain activities based on gender or other factor, etc?”

So we’re not, ipso facto, excluding a location based on those that, but we’re making clear that it is a factor we will be considering.

Darrell








On Feb 20, 2018, at 03:43, Steven Feldman <[hidden email]> wrote:

We have never thought about this in the selection process. Should we? I am not sure. 

There are so many countries that have legal and societal norms that are discriminatory against one group or another - think LGBTQ, religion, visa restrictions on entry - the list will be quite long.

Just on the LGBTQ legislation there are 73 countries that are shown at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory Should we be excluding these countries from hosting FOSS4G or should we be providing guidance to our community on the constraints of attending an event in these countries? We are committed to promoting diversity but it could be that in doing that we limit diversity.

No answers, just some questions.

For 2018 we can ask the LOC to provide security information to all delegates (ideally in advance of registration). For future years we need guidance from the Board as to how to proceed.
______
Steven



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Re: LGBT in Tanzania

Till Adams-3
Darrell, @ohers,

thanks for the sum up, I agree in including such a question in the next
RfP. In order to preserve your proposal, I've added your questionTill here:

https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Rfp

I will add this to the next RfP-text.


Till



Am 20.02.2018 um 18:32 schrieb Darrell Fuhriman:
>
> "FOSS4G attracts a global, diverse community. Are there any laws, or
> social norms, in your proposed location that would make members of our
> community feel unsafe or unwelcome? That could include, but is not
> limited to, anti-LGBTQ+ policies, policies that would prevent the free
> exercise of religion, restrictions on certain activities based on
> gender or other factor, etc?”

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Re: LGBT in Tanzania

Jorge Samuel Mendes de Jesus

Hi to all

I was following the LGBT  in Tanzania discussion, and I am happy to see the question added to the next RfP.

The discussion on LGBT rights and safety requires a bit of common sense, I am LGBT it is one part of my live as being OsGEO member is another (one of many) part(s), normally these two don't intercept much, personally I think  this is  why the LGBT community is present in OsGEO but very invisible. What?? No LGBT birds of the feather in FOSS4G ???

Having a code of conduct that is non discriminatory, we must take  into consideration the rights of minorities and safety of ALL the participants of and a OsGEO conference, the LOC have to do their best for the safety.  LOC should also informed  participants on what  are the real  problems that participants may have to face, then is up to the participants to decide if they fell comfortable to to attend the conference.

Again, nice to see this topic discussed and remember these comments are my 2 cents

Enjoy your day
Jorge


On 21-02-18 10:30, Till Adams wrote:
Darrell, @ohers,

thanks for the sum up, I agree in including such a question in the next
RfP. In order to preserve your proposal, I've added your questionTill here:

https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Rfp

I will add this to the next RfP-text.


Till



Am 20.02.2018 um 18:32 schrieb Darrell Fuhriman:
"FOSS4G attracts a global, diverse community. Are there any laws, or
social norms, in your proposed location that would make members of our
community feel unsafe or unwelcome? That could include, but is not
limited to, anti-LGBTQ+ policies, policies that would prevent the free
exercise of religion, restrictions on certain activities based on
gender or other factor, etc?”
_______________________________________________
Conference_dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev


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Fwd: LGBT in OSGeo

Mark Iliffe-2
Dear OSGeo Board,

On the 20th of February I wrote in response to a concern raised on LGBT+ concerns in Dar es Salaam. To this, set out the following four action points:

To help move forward on this, we will 1. Ensure that we provide guidance to those in our community on this issue; 2. Seek dialog within our community on this issue, I am personally contactable on this and fully welcome any and all people who wish to discuss this on a face-to-face (over VC) or any other medium that the community would feel better with; 3. Recommend that the board puts in place guidance for future OSGEO conferences other this issues; 4. Support the formation of an LGBT+ grouping within OSGEO to better support appropriate guidance on this issue.

To update on this:

1. We are collaborating with Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team on this issue, to ensure that the response to our mutual communities are in lock-step on this issue. Guidance will be published for consultation for the conference shortly;
2. I have reached out to members of the LGBT+ community that I know personally on a bilateral basis. I would welcome further dialogue with the OSGeo LGBT+ community on a bilateral, private basis for people to voice their concerns in confidence;

Points 3 and 4 are of specific interest, in the view of the LOC of FOSS4G 2018, as we can set policy direction for our conference, but have no mandate nor mechanism to set policy across OSGeo. To this end, I would formally request, in my role of Chair of FOSS4G for the OSGeo Board to provide direction to future FOSS4G conferences and to further support and service this community within our wider community. 

Clearly, there is a desire for LGBT+ to be considered further in our community - as noted in the transcript of the previous board meeting [1], but I think this needs to be communicated to our wider community - I see the discussions on the OSGeo board mailing list, though this may not have the widest circulation. I am also available to have a video conference with the board, at their earliest possible convenience if such an invitation was extended.

Finally, I really want to stress this for our conference in Dar es Salaam this year to our community: We want to have the most inclusive conference that we can possibly have. In the same way that previous FOSS4G events in Boston and North Carolina have demonstrated, our conferences have dealt with challenges within the wider legislative framework of their host country, we as a community are welcoming to any and all with open arms. We will publish guidance for those travelling, and if you still wish to participate but cannot come to Dar es Salaam, get in touch with us - we will help you get involved! Our FOSS4G will only be successful due to ALL the people in our OSGeo community; we are a big and dynamic family - we will reflect and live that this year in Dar es Salaam, and I hope in the many years to come.

Best,

Mark



---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: jorge.dejesus <[hidden email]>
Date: 21 February 2018 at 08:26
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Conf] LGBT in Tanzania
To: [hidden email]


Hi to all

I was following the LGBT  in Tanzania discussion, and I am happy to see the question added to the next RfP.

The discussion on LGBT rights and safety requires a bit of common sense, I am LGBT it is one part of my live as being OsGEO member is another (one of many) part(s), normally these two don't intercept much, personally I think  this is  why the LGBT community is present in OsGEO but very invisible. What?? No LGBT birds of the feather in FOSS4G ???

Having a code of conduct that is non discriminatory, we must take  into consideration the rights of minorities and safety of ALL the participants of and a OsGEO conference, the LOC have to do their best for the safety.  LOC should also informed  participants on what  are the real  problems that participants may have to face, then is up to the participants to decide if they fell comfortable to to attend the conference.

Again, nice to see this topic discussed and remember these comments are my 2 cents

Enjoy your day
Jorge



On 21-02-18 10:30, Till Adams wrote:
Darrell, @ohers,

thanks for the sum up, I agree in including such a question in the next
RfP. In order to preserve your proposal, I've added your questionTill here:

https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Rfp

I will add this to the next RfP-text.


Till



Am 20.02.2018 um 18:32 schrieb Darrell Fuhriman:
"FOSS4G attracts a global, diverse community. Are there any laws, or
social norms, in your proposed location that would make members of our
community feel unsafe or unwelcome? That could include, but is not
limited to, anti-LGBTQ+ policies, policies that would prevent the free
exercise of religion, restrictions on certain activities based on
gender or other factor, etc?”
_______________________________________________
Conference_dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev


_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev


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Re: LGBT in OSGeo

delawen
Dear Mark,

Thank you very much for your email.

I agree we should continue the discussion in the open. Now we have a
clear view of the current situation from the board (and people
following that list). A reason why I personally haven't moved this
quicker more open is because I don't want OSGeo to be responsible of
people coming out of the closet on the community and then travelling
to Tanzania and having problems because of that. The risk is very low,
as you have confirmed, but this is a very sensitive issue in many
countries. Everyone should be aware of this before starting to point
personal experiences, especially people coming from privileged
countries where being LGBT+ is not only legal, but socially accepted.

We have an OSGeo meeting in Bonn very soon and I think that is a
proper place to discuss this, as it will be face to face and some
people will be able to discuss this without having to write their
names anywhere. I agree there should be an LGBT+ group inside OSGeo,
and maybe we should provide the tools to allow members from sensitive
countries/personal situations to participate anonymously. (How? I
don't know yet.) And we should promote also some kind of diversity
advice group, where all kind of discriminations can be addressed.
Maybe merge this idea with the CoC team? Maybe a separated dedicated
team? I don't know.

Thanks for this and if you need some immediate action from the board,
just let us know.

Regards,
María.




On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 12:11 AM, Mark Iliffe <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dear OSGeo Board,
>
> On the 20th of February I wrote in response to a concern raised on LGBT+
> concerns in Dar es Salaam. To this, set out the following four action
> points:
>
>> To help move forward on this, we will 1. Ensure that we provide guidance
>> to those in our community on this issue; 2. Seek dialog within our community
>> on this issue, I am personally contactable on this and fully welcome any and
>> all people who wish to discuss this on a face-to-face (over VC) or any other
>> medium that the community would feel better with; 3. Recommend that the
>> board puts in place guidance for future OSGEO conferences other this issues;
>> 4. Support the formation of an LGBT+ grouping within OSGEO to better support
>> appropriate guidance on this issue.
>
>
> To update on this:
>
> 1. We are collaborating with Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team on this issue,
> to ensure that the response to our mutual communities are in lock-step on
> this issue. Guidance will be published for consultation for the conference
> shortly;
> 2. I have reached out to members of the LGBT+ community that I know
> personally on a bilateral basis. I would welcome further dialogue with the
> OSGeo LGBT+ community on a bilateral, private basis for people to voice
> their concerns in confidence;
>
> Points 3 and 4 are of specific interest, in the view of the LOC of FOSS4G
> 2018, as we can set policy direction for our conference, but have no mandate
> nor mechanism to set policy across OSGeo. To this end, I would formally
> request, in my role of Chair of FOSS4G for the OSGeo Board to provide
> direction to future FOSS4G conferences and to further support and service
> this community within our wider community.
>
> Clearly, there is a desire for LGBT+ to be considered further in our
> community - as noted in the transcript of the previous board meeting [1],
> but I think this needs to be communicated to our wider community - I see the
> discussions on the OSGeo board mailing list, though this may not have the
> widest circulation. I am also available to have a video conference with the
> board, at their earliest possible convenience if such an invitation was
> extended.
>
> Finally, I really want to stress this for our conference in Dar es Salaam
> this year to our community: We want to have the most inclusive conference
> that we can possibly have. In the same way that previous FOSS4G events in
> Boston and North Carolina have demonstrated, our conferences have dealt with
> challenges within the wider legislative framework of their host country, we
> as a community are welcoming to any and all with open arms. We will publish
> guidance for those travelling, and if you still wish to participate but
> cannot come to Dar es Salaam, get in touch with us - we will help you get
> involved! Our FOSS4G will only be successful due to ALL the people in our
> OSGeo community; we are a big and dynamic family - we will reflect and live
> that this year in Dar es Salaam, and I hope in the many years to come.
>
> Best,
>
> Mark
>
> [1] https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_Meeting_2018-03-01
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: jorge.dejesus <[hidden email]>
> Date: 21 February 2018 at 08:26
> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Conf] LGBT in Tanzania
> To: [hidden email]
>
>
> Hi to all
>
> I was following the LGBT  in Tanzania discussion, and I am happy to see the
> question added to the next RfP.
>
> The discussion on LGBT rights and safety requires a bit of common sense, I
> am LGBT it is one part of my live as being OsGEO member is another (one of
> many) part(s), normally these two don't intercept much, personally I think
> this is  why the LGBT community is present in OsGEO but very invisible.
> What?? No LGBT birds of the feather in FOSS4G ???
>
> Having a code of conduct that is non discriminatory, we must take  into
> consideration the rights of minorities and safety of ALL the participants of
> and a OsGEO conference, the LOC have to do their best for the safety.  LOC
> should also informed  participants on what  are the real  problems that
> participants may have to face, then is up to the participants to decide if
> they fell comfortable to to attend the conference.
>
> Again, nice to see this topic discussed and remember these comments are my 2
> cents
>
> Enjoy your day
> Jorge
>
>
>
> On 21-02-18 10:30, Till Adams wrote:
>
> Darrell, @ohers,
>
> thanks for the sum up, I agree in including such a question in the next
> RfP. In order to preserve your proposal, I've added your questionTill here:
>
> https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Rfp
>
> I will add this to the next RfP-text.
>
>
> Till
>
>
>
> Am 20.02.2018 um 18:32 schrieb Darrell Fuhriman:
>
> "FOSS4G attracts a global, diverse community. Are there any laws, or
> social norms, in your proposed location that would make members of our
> community feel unsafe or unwelcome? That could include, but is not
> limited to, anti-LGBTQ+ policies, policies that would prevent the free
> exercise of religion, restrictions on certain activities based on
> gender or other factor, etc?”
>
> _______________________________________________
> Conference_dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Conference_dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
>
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R: LGBT in OSGeo

Maria Antonia Brovelli
Thanks Maria
I agree that F2F is a good occasion for this conversation.
Best
Maria 



Inviato dal mio dispositivo Samsung


-------- Messaggio originale --------
Da: María Arias de Reyna <[hidden email]>
Data: 07/03/18 08:38 (GMT+01:00)
A: Mark Iliffe <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Astrid Emde (OSGeo)" <[hidden email]>, Helena Mitasova <[hidden email]>, Jeff McKenna <[hidden email]>, Jody Garnett <[hidden email]>, Maria Antonia Brovelli <[hidden email]>, Michael Smith <[hidden email]>, Vasile Craciunescu <[hidden email]>, [hidden email], OSGeo Discussions <[hidden email]>, Conference Dev <[hidden email]>
Oggetto: Re: [OSGeo-Conf] LGBT in OSGeo

Dear Mark,

Thank you very much for your email.

I agree we should continue the discussion in the open. Now we have a
clear view of the current situation from the board (and people
following that list). A reason why I personally haven't moved this
quicker more open is because I don't want OSGeo to be responsible of
people coming out of the closet on the community and then travelling
to Tanzania and having problems because of that. The risk is very low,
as you have confirmed, but this is a very sensitive issue in many
countries. Everyone should be aware of this before starting to point
personal experiences, especially people coming from privileged
countries where being LGBT+ is not only legal, but socially accepted.

We have an OSGeo meeting in Bonn very soon and I think that is a
proper place to discuss this, as it will be face to face and some
people will be able to discuss this without having to write their
names anywhere. I agree there should be an LGBT+ group inside OSGeo,
and maybe we should provide the tools to allow members from sensitive
countries/personal situations to participate anonymously. (How? I
don't know yet.) And we should promote also some kind of diversity
advice group, where all kind of discriminations can be addressed.
Maybe merge this idea with the CoC team? Maybe a separated dedicated
team? I don't know.

Thanks for this and if you need some immediate action from the board,
just let us know.

Regards,
María.




On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 12:11 AM, Mark Iliffe <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Dear OSGeo Board,
>
> On the 20th of February I wrote in response to a concern raised on LGBT+
> concerns in Dar es Salaam. To this, set out the following four action
> points:
>
>> To help move forward on this, we will 1. Ensure that we provide guidance
>> to those in our community on this issue; 2. Seek dialog within our community
>> on this issue, I am personally contactable on this and fully welcome any and
>> all people who wish to discuss this on a face-to-face (over VC) or any other
>> medium that the community would feel better with; 3. Recommend that the
>> board puts in place guidance for future OSGEO conferences other this issues;
>> 4. Support the formation of an LGBT+ grouping within OSGEO to better support
>> appropriate guidance on this issue.
>
>
> To update on this:
>
> 1. We are collaborating with Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team on this issue,
> to ensure that the response to our mutual communities are in lock-step on
> this issue. Guidance will be published for consultation for the conference
> shortly;
> 2. I have reached out to members of the LGBT+ community that I know
> personally on a bilateral basis. I would welcome further dialogue with the
> OSGeo LGBT+ community on a bilateral, private basis for people to voice
> their concerns in confidence;
>
> Points 3 and 4 are of specific interest, in the view of the LOC of FOSS4G
> 2018, as we can set policy direction for our conference, but have no mandate
> nor mechanism to set policy across OSGeo. To this end, I would formally
> request, in my role of Chair of FOSS4G for the OSGeo Board to provide
> direction to future FOSS4G conferences and to further support and service
> this community within our wider community.
>
> Clearly, there is a desire for LGBT+ to be considered further in our
> community - as noted in the transcript of the previous board meeting [1],
> but I think this needs to be communicated to our wider community - I see the
> discussions on the OSGeo board mailing list, though this may not have the
> widest circulation. I am also available to have a video conference with the
> board, at their earliest possible convenience if such an invitation was
> extended.
>
> Finally, I really want to stress this for our conference in Dar es Salaam
> this year to our community: We want to have the most inclusive conference
> that we can possibly have. In the same way that previous FOSS4G events in
> Boston and North Carolina have demonstrated, our conferences have dealt with
> challenges within the wider legislative framework of their host country, we
> as a community are welcoming to any and all with open arms. We will publish
> guidance for those travelling, and if you still wish to participate but
> cannot come to Dar es Salaam, get in touch with us - we will help you get
> involved! Our FOSS4G will only be successful due to ALL the people in our
> OSGeo community; we are a big and dynamic family - we will reflect and live
> that this year in Dar es Salaam, and I hope in the many years to come.
>
> Best,
>
> Mark
>
> [1] https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_Meeting_2018-03-01
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: jorge.dejesus <[hidden email]>
> Date: 21 February 2018 at 08:26
> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Conf] LGBT in Tanzania
> To: [hidden email]
>
>
> Hi to all
>
> I was following the LGBT  in Tanzania discussion, and I am happy to see the
> question added to the next RfP.
>
> The discussion on LGBT rights and safety requires a bit of common sense, I
> am LGBT it is one part of my live as being OsGEO member is another (one of
> many) part(s), normally these two don't intercept much, personally I think
> this is  why the LGBT community is present in OsGEO but very invisible.
> What?? No LGBT birds of the feather in FOSS4G ???
>
> Having a code of conduct that is non discriminatory, we must take  into
> consideration the rights of minorities and safety of ALL the participants of
> and a OsGEO conference, the LOC have to do their best for the safety.  LOC
> should also informed  participants on what  are the real  problems that
> participants may have to face, then is up to the participants to decide if
> they fell comfortable to to attend the conference.
>
> Again, nice to see this topic discussed and remember these comments are my 2
> cents
>
> Enjoy your day
> Jorge
>
>
>
> On 21-02-18 10:30, Till Adams wrote:
>
> Darrell, @ohers,
>
> thanks for the sum up, I agree in including such a question in the next
> RfP. In order to preserve your proposal, I've added your questionTill here:
>
> https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Rfp
>
> I will add this to the next RfP-text.
>
>
> Till
>
>
>
> Am 20.02.2018 um 18:32 schrieb Darrell Fuhriman:
>
> "FOSS4G attracts a global, diverse community. Are there any laws, or
> social norms, in your proposed location that would make members of our
> community feel unsafe or unwelcome? That could include, but is not
> limited to, anti-LGBTQ+ policies, policies that would prevent the free
> exercise of religion, restrictions on certain activities based on
> gender or other factor, etc?”
>
> _______________________________________________
> Conference_dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Conference_dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
>

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Re: LGBT in OSGeo

Mark Iliffe-2
In reply to this post by delawen
Dear María,

Thanks for the update on this, we as FOSS4G DLOC will follow and further participate with interest.

With regard to holding this conversation slowly, may I kindly counsel that we proceed as quickly and as openly as possible - to be clear, I do not view this as a point of debate for Dar es Salaam, but for our community as a whole - the ripples of this conversation go far beyond FOSS4G this year. 

The views and their number expressed have reinforced my (personal) view that to our credit, we have a great appetite for discussion on this within our community regarding diversity and inclusion - to proceed slowly in limited forums may provide the signal that we are not taking this seriously - we know this is not the case!! - but there is a difference between fact and perception unfortunately. 

I am not asking for people to come out of the closet to engage in this discussion; Personally, I am not LGBT+, however, I have a direct interest in making our community to be as inclusive and representative of our world as much as possible, this includes those in our community in relative and/or absolute poverty (ie. those that utilise QGIS to digitise their communities), or from under-represented communities - I believe that we can participate in this discussion not based on our race, creed, gender, sexual orientation but on the basis as we as a community stand weaker if one of us is disadvantaged - can we not engage independently as a member of humanity working towards inclusivity and acceptance, instead of categorising ourselves? 

This maybe a tone deaf view - and if so, please accept my humble apologies - but we clearly have a challenge here and while we cannot change the laws of any nation that we are working on, we can send the message to the OSGeo community that we are listening and through the CoC/diversity statement/working groups on LGBT+ etc. that YOU ARE WELCOME IN THIS COMMUNITY!

This reinforces my personal view that we need to ensure that all are kept aware of these discussions - accordingly, I kindly request that we keep this in the OSGeo discuss board and make the F2F discussions in Bonn accessible for all and that the board takes appropriate action to ensure that this message is heard loud and clear throughout.

Many thanks,

Mark

On 7 Mar 2018, at 02:37, María Arias de Reyna <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Mark,

Thank you very much for your email.

I agree we should continue the discussion in the open. Now we have a
clear view of the current situation from the board (and people
following that list). A reason why I personally haven't moved this
quicker more open is because I don't want OSGeo to be responsible of
people coming out of the closet on the community and then travelling
to Tanzania and having problems because of that. The risk is very low,
as you have confirmed, but this is a very sensitive issue in many
countries. Everyone should be aware of this before starting to point
personal experiences, especially people coming from privileged
countries where being LGBT+ is not only legal, but socially accepted.

We have an OSGeo meeting in Bonn very soon and I think that is a
proper place to discuss this, as it will be face to face and some
people will be able to discuss this without having to write their
names anywhere. I agree there should be an LGBT+ group inside OSGeo,
and maybe we should provide the tools to allow members from sensitive
countries/personal situations to participate anonymously. (How? I
don't know yet.) And we should promote also some kind of diversity
advice group, where all kind of discriminations can be addressed.
Maybe merge this idea with the CoC team? Maybe a separated dedicated
team? I don't know.

Thanks for this and if you need some immediate action from the board,
just let us know.

Regards,
María.




On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 12:11 AM, Mark Iliffe <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dear OSGeo Board,

On the 20th of February I wrote in response to a concern raised on LGBT+
concerns in Dar es Salaam. To this, set out the following four action
points:

To help move forward on this, we will 1. Ensure that we provide guidance
to those in our community on this issue; 2. Seek dialog within our community
on this issue, I am personally contactable on this and fully welcome any and
all people who wish to discuss this on a face-to-face (over VC) or any other
medium that the community would feel better with; 3. Recommend that the
board puts in place guidance for future OSGEO conferences other this issues;
4. Support the formation of an LGBT+ grouping within OSGEO to better support
appropriate guidance on this issue.


To update on this:

1. We are collaborating with Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team on this issue,
to ensure that the response to our mutual communities are in lock-step on
this issue. Guidance will be published for consultation for the conference
shortly;
2. I have reached out to members of the LGBT+ community that I know
personally on a bilateral basis. I would welcome further dialogue with the
OSGeo LGBT+ community on a bilateral, private basis for people to voice
their concerns in confidence;

Points 3 and 4 are of specific interest, in the view of the LOC of FOSS4G
2018, as we can set policy direction for our conference, but have no mandate
nor mechanism to set policy across OSGeo. To this end, I would formally
request, in my role of Chair of FOSS4G for the OSGeo Board to provide
direction to future FOSS4G conferences and to further support and service
this community within our wider community.

Clearly, there is a desire for LGBT+ to be considered further in our
community - as noted in the transcript of the previous board meeting [1],
but I think this needs to be communicated to our wider community - I see the
discussions on the OSGeo board mailing list, though this may not have the
widest circulation. I am also available to have a video conference with the
board, at their earliest possible convenience if such an invitation was
extended.

Finally, I really want to stress this for our conference in Dar es Salaam
this year to our community: We want to have the most inclusive conference
that we can possibly have. In the same way that previous FOSS4G events in
Boston and North Carolina have demonstrated, our conferences have dealt with
challenges within the wider legislative framework of their host country, we
as a community are welcoming to any and all with open arms. We will publish
guidance for those travelling, and if you still wish to participate but
cannot come to Dar es Salaam, get in touch with us - we will help you get
involved! Our FOSS4G will only be successful due to ALL the people in our
OSGeo community; we are a big and dynamic family - we will reflect and live
that this year in Dar es Salaam, and I hope in the many years to come.

Best,

Mark

[1] https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_Meeting_2018-03-01


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: jorge.dejesus <[hidden email]>
Date: 21 February 2018 at 08:26
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Conf] LGBT in Tanzania
To: [hidden email]


Hi to all

I was following the LGBT  in Tanzania discussion, and I am happy to see the
question added to the next RfP.

The discussion on LGBT rights and safety requires a bit of common sense, I
am LGBT it is one part of my live as being OsGEO member is another (one of
many) part(s), normally these two don't intercept much, personally I think
this is  why the LGBT community is present in OsGEO but very invisible.
What?? No LGBT birds of the feather in FOSS4G ???

Having a code of conduct that is non discriminatory, we must take  into
consideration the rights of minorities and safety of ALL the participants of
and a OsGEO conference, the LOC have to do their best for the safety.  LOC
should also informed  participants on what  are the real  problems that
participants may have to face, then is up to the participants to decide if
they fell comfortable to to attend the conference.

Again, nice to see this topic discussed and remember these comments are my 2
cents

Enjoy your day
Jorge



On 21-02-18 10:30, Till Adams wrote:

Darrell, @ohers,

thanks for the sum up, I agree in including such a question in the next
RfP. In order to preserve your proposal, I've added your questionTill here:

https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Rfp

I will add this to the next RfP-text.


Till



Am 20.02.2018 um 18:32 schrieb Darrell Fuhriman:

"FOSS4G attracts a global, diverse community. Are there any laws, or
social norms, in your proposed location that would make members of our
community feel unsafe or unwelcome? That could include, but is not
limited to, anti-LGBTQ+ policies, policies that would prevent the free
exercise of religion, restrictions on certain activities based on
gender or other factor, etc?”

_______________________________________________
Conference_dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev



_______________________________________________
Conference_dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev



_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
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Re: LGBT in OSGeo

Cameron Shorter

Mark and others on this list,

I'm seeing significant agreement here in promoting diversity within OSGeo. I encourage anyone who feels strongly about this should consider starting to craft revised text for OSGeo policy documents. Until that happens, we are all talk, no action, no impact.

The process: Write draft changes to our policy documents, invite review, get rough consensus on wording, get the conference committee to vote to accept the proposed changes, update the official documents.

Documents that I think need reworking are:

https://svn.osgeo.org/osgeo/foss4g/rfp/

https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/FOSS4G_Handbook

Warm regards, Cameron


On 8/3/18 1:16 am, Mark Iliffe wrote:
Dear María,

Thanks for the update on this, we as FOSS4G DLOC will follow and further participate with interest.

With regard to holding this conversation slowly, may I kindly counsel that we proceed as quickly and as openly as possible - to be clear, I do not view this as a point of debate for Dar es Salaam, but for our community as a whole - the ripples of this conversation go far beyond FOSS4G this year. 

The views and their number expressed have reinforced my (personal) view that to our credit, we have a great appetite for discussion on this within our community regarding diversity and inclusion - to proceed slowly in limited forums may provide the signal that we are not taking this seriously - we know this is not the case!! - but there is a difference between fact and perception unfortunately. 

I am not asking for people to come out of the closet to engage in this discussion; Personally, I am not LGBT+, however, I have a direct interest in making our community to be as inclusive and representative of our world as much as possible, this includes those in our community in relative and/or absolute poverty (ie. those that utilise QGIS to digitise their communities), or from under-represented communities - I believe that we can participate in this discussion not based on our race, creed, gender, sexual orientation but on the basis as we as a community stand weaker if one of us is disadvantaged - can we not engage independently as a member of humanity working towards inclusivity and acceptance, instead of categorising ourselves? 

This maybe a tone deaf view - and if so, please accept my humble apologies - but we clearly have a challenge here and while we cannot change the laws of any nation that we are working on, we can send the message to the OSGeo community that we are listening and through the CoC/diversity statement/working groups on LGBT+ etc. that YOU ARE WELCOME IN THIS COMMUNITY!

This reinforces my personal view that we need to ensure that all are kept aware of these discussions - accordingly, I kindly request that we keep this in the OSGeo discuss board and make the F2F discussions in Bonn accessible for all and that the board takes appropriate action to ensure that this message is heard loud and clear throughout.

Many thanks,

Mark

On 7 Mar 2018, at 02:37, María Arias de Reyna <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Mark,

Thank you very much for your email.

I agree we should continue the discussion in the open. Now we have a
clear view of the current situation from the board (and people
following that list). A reason why I personally haven't moved this
quicker more open is because I don't want OSGeo to be responsible of
people coming out of the closet on the community and then travelling
to Tanzania and having problems because of that. The risk is very low,
as you have confirmed, but this is a very sensitive issue in many
countries. Everyone should be aware of this before starting to point
personal experiences, especially people coming from privileged
countries where being LGBT+ is not only legal, but socially accepted.

We have an OSGeo meeting in Bonn very soon and I think that is a
proper place to discuss this, as it will be face to face and some
people will be able to discuss this without having to write their
names anywhere. I agree there should be an LGBT+ group inside OSGeo,
and maybe we should provide the tools to allow members from sensitive
countries/personal situations to participate anonymously. (How? I
don't know yet.) And we should promote also some kind of diversity
advice group, where all kind of discriminations can be addressed.
Maybe merge this idea with the CoC team? Maybe a separated dedicated
team? I don't know.

Thanks for this and if you need some immediate action from the board,
just let us know.

Regards,
María.




On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 12:11 AM, Mark Iliffe <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dear OSGeo Board,

On the 20th of February I wrote in response to a concern raised on LGBT+
concerns in Dar es Salaam. To this, set out the following four action
points:

To help move forward on this, we will 1. Ensure that we provide guidance
to those in our community on this issue; 2. Seek dialog within our community
on this issue, I am personally contactable on this and fully welcome any and
all people who wish to discuss this on a face-to-face (over VC) or any other
medium that the community would feel better with; 3. Recommend that the
board puts in place guidance for future OSGEO conferences other this issues;
4. Support the formation of an LGBT+ grouping within OSGEO to better support
appropriate guidance on this issue.


To update on this:

1. We are collaborating with Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team on this issue,
to ensure that the response to our mutual communities are in lock-step on
this issue. Guidance will be published for consultation for the conference
shortly;
2. I have reached out to members of the LGBT+ community that I know
personally on a bilateral basis. I would welcome further dialogue with the
OSGeo LGBT+ community on a bilateral, private basis for people to voice
their concerns in confidence;

Points 3 and 4 are of specific interest, in the view of the LOC of FOSS4G
2018, as we can set policy direction for our conference, but have no mandate
nor mechanism to set policy across OSGeo. To this end, I would formally
request, in my role of Chair of FOSS4G for the OSGeo Board to provide
direction to future FOSS4G conferences and to further support and service
this community within our wider community.

Clearly, there is a desire for LGBT+ to be considered further in our
community - as noted in the transcript of the previous board meeting [1],
but I think this needs to be communicated to our wider community - I see the
discussions on the OSGeo board mailing list, though this may not have the
widest circulation. I am also available to have a video conference with the
board, at their earliest possible convenience if such an invitation was
extended.

Finally, I really want to stress this for our conference in Dar es Salaam
this year to our community: We want to have the most inclusive conference
that we can possibly have. In the same way that previous FOSS4G events in
Boston and North Carolina have demonstrated, our conferences have dealt with
challenges within the wider legislative framework of their host country, we
as a community are welcoming to any and all with open arms. We will publish
guidance for those travelling, and if you still wish to participate but
cannot come to Dar es Salaam, get in touch with us - we will help you get
involved! Our FOSS4G will only be successful due to ALL the people in our
OSGeo community; we are a big and dynamic family - we will reflect and live
that this year in Dar es Salaam, and I hope in the many years to come.

Best,

Mark

[1] https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_Meeting_2018-03-01


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: jorge.dejesus <[hidden email]>
Date: 21 February 2018 at 08:26
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Conf] LGBT in Tanzania
To: [hidden email]


Hi to all

I was following the LGBT  in Tanzania discussion, and I am happy to see the
question added to the next RfP.

The discussion on LGBT rights and safety requires a bit of common sense, I
am LGBT it is one part of my live as being OsGEO member is another (one of
many) part(s), normally these two don't intercept much, personally I think
this is  why the LGBT community is present in OsGEO but very invisible.
What?? No LGBT birds of the feather in FOSS4G ???

Having a code of conduct that is non discriminatory, we must take  into
consideration the rights of minorities and safety of ALL the participants of
and a OsGEO conference, the LOC have to do their best for the safety.  LOC
should also informed  participants on what  are the real  problems that
participants may have to face, then is up to the participants to decide if
they fell comfortable to to attend the conference.

Again, nice to see this topic discussed and remember these comments are my 2
cents

Enjoy your day
Jorge



On 21-02-18 10:30, Till Adams wrote:

Darrell, @ohers,

thanks for the sum up, I agree in including such a question in the next
RfP. In order to preserve your proposal, I've added your questionTill here:

https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Rfp

I will add this to the next RfP-text.


Till



Am 20.02.2018 um 18:32 schrieb Darrell Fuhriman:

"FOSS4G attracts a global, diverse community. Are there any laws, or
social norms, in your proposed location that would make members of our
community feel unsafe or unwelcome? That could include, but is not
limited to, anti-LGBTQ+ policies, policies that would prevent the free
exercise of religion, restrictions on certain activities based on
gender or other factor, etc?”

_______________________________________________
Conference_dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev



_______________________________________________
Conference_dev mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev




_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
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-- 
Cameron Shorter
Technology Demystifier, Learnosity
Open Technologies Consultant

M +61 (0) 419 142 254

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Travel Grant Programs - Call for help!

Till Adams-3
In reply to this post by Mark Iliffe-2
Dear CC-list!

As you know, the next FOSS4g events show up on our time map!

Steven Feldman, Mark Iliffe and I already started our discussions about
how to run the Travel Grant program for Dar Es Salaam.
See our first results here:
https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/FOSS4G_Travel_Grant_Programme_2018

Beside the global event, also FOSS4G NA is coming up, a Grant Program is
also wanted there.

Because we need people to manage the TGP's, this is a call for
volunteers, as both events need some helping hands in TGP. Last year we
reviewed 80 applications and every member of TGP brought them in his/her
order. Also the contact to the grantees and so forth takes some time. So
be prepared to spent some hours, but on the other hand, it's your chance
to to s.th. really meaningful. Bring people to a FOSS4G!

Call for Dar:
In general we think that at least 3 from CC and 3 locals for Dar are
needed. So if we could have one more helping hand from CC for TGP Dar
this is very appreciated (last year Eli joined us, perhaps you have time
to support TGP again this year?). If interested, please contact me,
Steven or Mark.

F4GNA
We need volunteers to run the full program for FOSS4G NA. Steven and me
are occupied with the Dar program, so we have no capacties to also
support the F4GNA program. If interested, please contact Jody.


Many thanks in advance!

Till


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Re: Travel Grant Programs - Call for help!

delawen
Hi,

So this is something I learned yesterday and is disturbing me a bit.
Why is the Travel Grant program only for the main conference (and now
also FOSS4GNA)? I think it would make sense to do it reverse: trying
to be more effective by using less money per participant.

I understand this year we should do a special push for FOSS4G as the
expected attendance is lower than in USA or Europe. But when donating,
advertising and encouraging people to the TGP I always assumed this
was for all events. Why is it not? If the TGP is trying to help
increase diversity, it would be more effective if we allow people to
travel also to smaller/closer events so more people can be moved with
less money.

If the issue is just the need of more hands, I think we can do a poll
on local chapters and events organizations to make sure it reaches
more people.


On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 1:32 PM, Till Adams <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dear CC-list!
>
> As you know, the next FOSS4g events show up on our time map!
>
> Steven Feldman, Mark Iliffe and I already started our discussions about
> how to run the Travel Grant program for Dar Es Salaam.
> See our first results here:
> https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/FOSS4G_Travel_Grant_Programme_2018
>
> Beside the global event, also FOSS4G NA is coming up, a Grant Program is
> also wanted there.
>
> Because we need people to manage the TGP's, this is a call for
> volunteers, as both events need some helping hands in TGP. Last year we
> reviewed 80 applications and every member of TGP brought them in his/her
> order. Also the contact to the grantees and so forth takes some time. So
> be prepared to spent some hours, but on the other hand, it's your chance
> to to s.th. really meaningful. Bring people to a FOSS4G!
>
> Call for Dar:
> In general we think that at least 3 from CC and 3 locals for Dar are
> needed. So if we could have one more helping hand from CC for TGP Dar
> this is very appreciated (last year Eli joined us, perhaps you have time
> to support TGP again this year?). If interested, please contact me,
> Steven or Mark.
>
> F4GNA
> We need volunteers to run the full program for FOSS4G NA. Steven and me
> are occupied with the Dar program, so we have no capacties to also
> support the F4GNA program. If interested, please contact Jody.
>
>
> Many thanks in advance!
>
> Till
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Conference_dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
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Re: Travel Grant Programs - Call for help!

Till Adams-3
Maria,

due to my understanding of the budget 2018 [1], there is a general
TGP-budget from OSGeo which is partwise dedicated for the global event
(10k) and partwise for regional events (5k) if the regional events apply
for it. Due to [1] this already happened for FOSS4G UK (see Approval and
Amendments).

In general and of course, TGP is not only for the global event. But you
need people to run the program for the single events and only this was
expressed in my email, nohing else.

As you might imagine, being member in a TGP-team causes a lot of work
and no one in the conference committee wil be able to support all
potential TGP's during the year, except someone does not have any other
plans for his/her time... ;-)


The need for operators for the TGP for NA came up to to a request that
Jody sent and a pre-discussion on this (by email) from only few people.
After FOSSGIS I can sum up the results of this discussion somewhere in
the WIKI. In my eyes, it makes sense to have a unique procedure on TGP's
among all our events. But not with always the same people ;-)

Till



[1] https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSGeo_Budget_2018



Am 19.03.2018 um 13:40 schrieb María Arias de Reyna:

> Hi,
>
> So this is something I learned yesterday and is disturbing me a bit.
> Why is the Travel Grant program only for the main conference (and now
> also FOSS4GNA)? I think it would make sense to do it reverse: trying
> to be more effective by using less money per participant.
>
> I understand this year we should do a special push for FOSS4G as the
> expected attendance is lower than in USA or Europe. But when donating,
> advertising and encouraging people to the TGP I always assumed this
> was for all events. Why is it not? If the TGP is trying to help
> increase diversity, it would be more effective if we allow people to
> travel also to smaller/closer events so more people can be moved with
> less money.
>
> If the issue is just the need of more hands, I think we can do a poll
> on local chapters and events organizations to make sure it reaches
> more people.
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 1:32 PM, Till Adams <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Dear CC-list!
>>
>> As you know, the next FOSS4g events show up on our time map!
>>
>> Steven Feldman, Mark Iliffe and I already started our discussions about
>> how to run the Travel Grant program for Dar Es Salaam.
>> See our first results here:
>> https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/FOSS4G_Travel_Grant_Programme_2018
>>
>> Beside the global event, also FOSS4G NA is coming up, a Grant Program is
>> also wanted there.
>>
>> Because we need people to manage the TGP's, this is a call for
>> volunteers, as both events need some helping hands in TGP. Last year we
>> reviewed 80 applications and every member of TGP brought them in his/her
>> order. Also the contact to the grantees and so forth takes some time. So
>> be prepared to spent some hours, but on the other hand, it's your chance
>> to to s.th. really meaningful. Bring people to a FOSS4G!
>>
>> Call for Dar:
>> In general we think that at least 3 from CC and 3 locals for Dar are
>> needed. So if we could have one more helping hand from CC for TGP Dar
>> this is very appreciated (last year Eli joined us, perhaps you have time
>> to support TGP again this year?). If interested, please contact me,
>> Steven or Mark.
>>
>> F4GNA
>> We need volunteers to run the full program for FOSS4G NA. Steven and me
>> are occupied with the Dar program, so we have no capacties to also
>> support the F4GNA program. If interested, please contact Jody.
>>
>>
>> Many thanks in advance!
>>
>> Till
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Conference_dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev

_______________________________________________
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12