Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

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Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

Nyall Dawson
Hi list!

One common road block which I find I am encountering when
organisations are wanting to transition to open source software is
that they are dependant on the set of ESRI map symbology fonts. While
there is a large number of quality open-licensed map icon sets
available, there are currently none which are "drop-in" replacements
for these ESRI font symbol sets.

Has anyone else run into this issue? Any suggestions for approaches to
overcome this? Would there be any interest in OSGEO funding creation
of openly licensed alternatives to these fonts?

Cheers,
Nyall
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Re: Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

jody.garnett
I think that is a good idea, and something our marketing committee could very carefully do.

On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 11:39 PM Nyall Dawson <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi list!

One common road block which I find I am encountering when
organisations are wanting to transition to open source software is
that they are dependant on the set of ESRI map symbology fonts. While
there is a large number of quality open-licensed map icon sets
available, there are currently none which are "drop-in" replacements
for these ESRI font symbol sets.

Has anyone else run into this issue? Any suggestions for approaches to
overcome this? Would there be any interest in OSGEO funding creation
of openly licensed alternatives to these fonts?

Cheers,
Nyall
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Re: Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

Even Rouault-2
In reply to this post by Nyall Dawson

Nyall,

 

for my understanding, and hopefully help others, I assume the issue is that you have a style definition where there are tuples of (font_identifier, symbol_identifier_in_the_font) to define the styling of layers with point geometries, right ?

Or possibly some dataset layers whose fields also are characters which are the symbol_identifier_in_the_font (that is each feature points to a different symbol), but the whole layer field uses a single font ?

 

If that's only the former, then assuming there would be N open fonts already covering the whole set of ESRI symbology fonts (unlikely), one could possibly create a mapping between each tuple of (ESRI_font_id, ESRI_symbol_id) to (OPEN_font_id, OPEN_symbol_id). If the later, then you need a complete replacement for each proprietary font.

 

How many symbols / fonts are we discussing about ?

 

Even

 

>

> One common road block which I find I am encountering when

> organisations are wanting to transition to open source software is

> that they are dependant on the set of ESRI map symbology fonts. While

> there is a large number of quality open-licensed map icon sets

> available, there are currently none which are "drop-in" replacements

> for these ESRI font symbol sets.

>

> Has anyone else run into this issue? Any suggestions for approaches to

> overcome this? Would there be any interest in OSGEO funding creation

> of openly licensed alternatives to these fonts?

>

> Cheers,

> Nyall

> _______________________________________________

> Discuss mailing list

> [hidden email]

> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

 

 

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http://www.spatialys.com


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Re: Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

Nyall Dawson
On Wed, 6 May 2020 at 01:13, Even Rouault <[hidden email]> wrote:

> for my understanding, and hopefully help others, I assume the issue is that you have a style definition where there are tuples of (font_identifier, symbol_identifier_in_the_font) to define the styling of layers with point geometries, right ?

Partially, but the "bigger picture" is that there's just no
alternative freely available version of many of these symbol graphics
themselves. That's the blocker that I've encountered.

> If that's only the former, then assuming there would be N open fonts already covering the whole set of ESRI symbology fonts (unlikely), one could possibly create a mapping between each tuple of (ESRI_font_id, ESRI_symbol_id) to (OPEN_font_id, OPEN_symbol_id). If the later, then you need a complete replacement for each proprietary font.

It's the later.

> How many symbols / fonts are we discussing about ?

There's about 73 fonts total (see list below, may not be complete),
which average about 100 icons apiece.

ESRI AMFM Electric
ESRI AMFM Gas
ESRI AMFM Sewer
ESRI AMFM Water
ESRI ArcPad
ESRI Arrowhead
ESRI Business
ESRI Cartography
ESRI Caves 1
ESRI Caves 2
ESRI Caves 3
ESRI Climate & Precipitation
ESRI Commodities
ESRI Conservation
ESRI Crime Analysis
ESRI Default Marker
ESRI Dimensioning
ESRI Elements
ESRI Enviro Hazard Analysis
ESRI Enviro Hazard Incident
ESRI Enviro Hazard Sites
ESRI Environmental & Icons
ESRI ERS Infrastructures S1
ESRI ERS Operations S1
ESRI Fire Incident NFPA
ESRI Geology AGSO 1
ESRI Geology
ESRI Geology USGS 95-525
ESRI Geometric Symbols
ESRI Hazardous Materials
ESRI Hydrants
ESRI IGL Font16
ESRI IGL Font20
ESRI IGL Font21
ESRI IGL Font22
ESRI IGL Font23
ESRI IGL Font24
ESRI IGL Font25
ESRI Meteorological 01
ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers
ESRI MilMod 01
ESRI MilMod 02
ESRI MilRed 01
ESRI MilSym 01
ESRI MilSym 02
ESRI MilSym 03
ESRI MilSym 04
ESRI MilSym 05
ESRI NIMA City Graphic LN
ESRI NIMA City Graphic PT
ESRI NIMA DNC LN
ESRI NIMA DNC PT
ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 LN
ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 PT
ESRI North
ESRI Oil, Gas, & Water
ESRI Ordnance Survey
ESRI Pipeline US 1
ESRI Public1
ESRI SDS 1.95 1
ESRI SDS 1.95 2
ESRI SDS 2.00 1
ESRI SDS 2.00 2
ESRI Shields
ESRI Surveyor
ESRI Telecom
ESRI Transportation & Civic
ESRI US Forestry 1
ESRI US Forestry 2
ESRI US MUTCD 1
ESRI US MUTCD 2
ESRI US MUTCD 3
ESRI Weather
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Re: Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

jody.garnett
Note this is quite the legal trap, many governments have contributed to these fonts, and then are not in a position to use the result with open source software such as GeoServer (even though we have TTF symbol support).

Specifically for the US fonts above it may be possible to source the original marks directly from the departments involved via public domain, and then as a citizen contribute marks. You can see gvsig working on this kind of issue here.

--
Jody Garnett


On Mon, 11 May 2020 at 22:46, Nyall Dawson <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Wed, 6 May 2020 at 01:13, Even Rouault <[hidden email]> wrote:

> for my understanding, and hopefully help others, I assume the issue is that you have a style definition where there are tuples of (font_identifier, symbol_identifier_in_the_font) to define the styling of layers with point geometries, right ?

Partially, but the "bigger picture" is that there's just no
alternative freely available version of many of these symbol graphics
themselves. That's the blocker that I've encountered.

> If that's only the former, then assuming there would be N open fonts already covering the whole set of ESRI symbology fonts (unlikely), one could possibly create a mapping between each tuple of (ESRI_font_id, ESRI_symbol_id) to (OPEN_font_id, OPEN_symbol_id). If the later, then you need a complete replacement for each proprietary font.

It's the later.

> How many symbols / fonts are we discussing about ?

There's about 73 fonts total (see list below, may not be complete),
which average about 100 icons apiece.

ESRI AMFM Electric
ESRI AMFM Gas
ESRI AMFM Sewer
ESRI AMFM Water
ESRI ArcPad
ESRI Arrowhead
ESRI Business
ESRI Cartography
ESRI Caves 1
ESRI Caves 2
ESRI Caves 3
ESRI Climate & Precipitation
ESRI Commodities
ESRI Conservation
ESRI Crime Analysis
ESRI Default Marker
ESRI Dimensioning
ESRI Elements
ESRI Enviro Hazard Analysis
ESRI Enviro Hazard Incident
ESRI Enviro Hazard Sites
ESRI Environmental & Icons
ESRI ERS Infrastructures S1
ESRI ERS Operations S1
ESRI Fire Incident NFPA
ESRI Geology AGSO 1
ESRI Geology
ESRI Geology USGS 95-525
ESRI Geometric Symbols
ESRI Hazardous Materials
ESRI Hydrants
ESRI IGL Font16
ESRI IGL Font20
ESRI IGL Font21
ESRI IGL Font22
ESRI IGL Font23
ESRI IGL Font24
ESRI IGL Font25
ESRI Meteorological 01
ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers
ESRI MilMod 01
ESRI MilMod 02
ESRI MilRed 01
ESRI MilSym 01
ESRI MilSym 02
ESRI MilSym 03
ESRI MilSym 04
ESRI MilSym 05
ESRI NIMA City Graphic LN
ESRI NIMA City Graphic PT
ESRI NIMA DNC LN
ESRI NIMA DNC PT
ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 LN
ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 PT
ESRI North
ESRI Oil, Gas, & Water
ESRI Ordnance Survey
ESRI Pipeline US 1
ESRI Public1
ESRI SDS 1.95 1
ESRI SDS 1.95 2
ESRI SDS 2.00 1
ESRI SDS 2.00 2
ESRI Shields
ESRI Surveyor
ESRI Telecom
ESRI Transportation & Civic
ESRI US Forestry 1
ESRI US Forestry 2
ESRI US MUTCD 1
ESRI US MUTCD 2
ESRI US MUTCD 3
ESRI Weather
_______________________________________________
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Re: Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

Brad Hards
In reply to this post by Nyall Dawson
I have no idea what is in the map fonts (or even what an ESRI map font is), but if you're looking for the symbology for DNC and VMAP, (which sound vaguely like: ESRI NIMA DNC LN, ESRI NIMA DNC PT, ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 LN, ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 PT) its probably based on some variant of the NGA GeoSym stuff - MIL-HDBK-857A and MIL-DTL-89045/A

If you're prepared to deal with converting CGM to whatever that font thing is, you can download the definitions from the NGA GWG Portrayal Working Group at https://gwg.nga.mil/pfg_documents.php (expect a cert warning)

The ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers and some of those MilSym / MilMod things might be MIL-STD-2525 (aka STANAG APP-6) symbology. Not usually treated as a font though....

Brad

-----Original Message-----
From: Discuss <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Nyall Dawson
Sent: Tuesday, 12 May 2020 3:46 PM
To: Even Rouault <[hidden email]>
Cc: OSGeo Discussions <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

On Wed, 6 May 2020 at 01:13, Even Rouault <[hidden email]> wrote:

> for my understanding, and hopefully help others, I assume the issue is that you have a style definition where there are tuples of (font_identifier, symbol_identifier_in_the_font) to define the styling of layers with point geometries, right ?

Partially, but the "bigger picture" is that there's just no alternative freely available version of many of these symbol graphics themselves. That's the blocker that I've encountered.

> If that's only the former, then assuming there would be N open fonts already covering the whole set of ESRI symbology fonts (unlikely), one could possibly create a mapping between each tuple of (ESRI_font_id, ESRI_symbol_id) to (OPEN_font_id, OPEN_symbol_id). If the later, then you need a complete replacement for each proprietary font.

It's the later.

> How many symbols / fonts are we discussing about ?

There's about 73 fonts total (see list below, may not be complete), which average about 100 icons apiece.

ESRI AMFM Electric
ESRI AMFM Gas
ESRI AMFM Sewer
ESRI AMFM Water
ESRI ArcPad
ESRI Arrowhead
ESRI Business
ESRI Cartography
ESRI Caves 1
ESRI Caves 2
ESRI Caves 3
ESRI Climate & Precipitation
ESRI Commodities
ESRI Conservation
ESRI Crime Analysis
ESRI Default Marker
ESRI Dimensioning
ESRI Elements
ESRI Enviro Hazard Analysis
ESRI Enviro Hazard Incident
ESRI Enviro Hazard Sites
ESRI Environmental & Icons
ESRI ERS Infrastructures S1
ESRI ERS Operations S1
ESRI Fire Incident NFPA
ESRI Geology AGSO 1
ESRI Geology
ESRI Geology USGS 95-525
ESRI Geometric Symbols
ESRI Hazardous Materials
ESRI Hydrants
ESRI IGL Font16
ESRI IGL Font20
ESRI IGL Font21
ESRI IGL Font22
ESRI IGL Font23
ESRI IGL Font24
ESRI IGL Font25
ESRI Meteorological 01
ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers
ESRI MilMod 01
ESRI MilMod 02
ESRI MilRed 01
ESRI MilSym 01
ESRI MilSym 02
ESRI MilSym 03
ESRI MilSym 04
ESRI MilSym 05
ESRI NIMA City Graphic LN
ESRI NIMA City Graphic PT
ESRI NIMA DNC LN
ESRI NIMA DNC PT
ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 LN
ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 PT
ESRI North
ESRI Oil, Gas, & Water
ESRI Ordnance Survey
ESRI Pipeline US 1
ESRI Public1
ESRI SDS 1.95 1
ESRI SDS 1.95 2
ESRI SDS 2.00 1
ESRI SDS 2.00 2
ESRI Shields
ESRI Surveyor
ESRI Telecom
ESRI Transportation & Civic
ESRI US Forestry 1
ESRI US Forestry 2
ESRI US MUTCD 1
ESRI US MUTCD 2
ESRI US MUTCD 3
ESRI Weather
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

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Re: Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

jody.garnett
This discussion starts to get into the value, it is a lot of work to gather up these original or alternate sources ... both for end users migrating to open source, and for OSGeo projects to do on their own. 

I think this would be a great group project.  

On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 3:44 AM Brad Hards <[hidden email]> wrote:
I have no idea what is in the map fonts (or even what an ESRI map font is), but if you're looking for the symbology for DNC and VMAP, (which sound vaguely like: ESRI NIMA DNC LN, ESRI NIMA DNC PT, ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 LN, ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 PT) its probably based on some variant of the NGA GeoSym stuff - MIL-HDBK-857A and MIL-DTL-89045/A

If you're prepared to deal with converting CGM to whatever that font thing is, you can download the definitions from the NGA GWG Portrayal Working Group at https://gwg.nga.mil/pfg_documents.php (expect a cert warning)

The ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers and some of those MilSym / MilMod things might be MIL-STD-2525 (aka STANAG APP-6) symbology. Not usually treated as a font though....

Brad

-----Original Message-----
From: Discuss <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Nyall Dawson
Sent: Tuesday, 12 May 2020 3:46 PM
To: Even Rouault <[hidden email]>
Cc: OSGeo Discussions <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

On Wed, 6 May 2020 at 01:13, Even Rouault <[hidden email]> wrote:

> for my understanding, and hopefully help others, I assume the issue is that you have a style definition where there are tuples of (font_identifier, symbol_identifier_in_the_font) to define the styling of layers with point geometries, right ?

Partially, but the "bigger picture" is that there's just no alternative freely available version of many of these symbol graphics themselves. That's the blocker that I've encountered.

> If that's only the former, then assuming there would be N open fonts already covering the whole set of ESRI symbology fonts (unlikely), one could possibly create a mapping between each tuple of (ESRI_font_id, ESRI_symbol_id) to (OPEN_font_id, OPEN_symbol_id). If the later, then you need a complete replacement for each proprietary font.

It's the later.

> How many symbols / fonts are we discussing about ?

There's about 73 fonts total (see list below, may not be complete), which average about 100 icons apiece.

ESRI AMFM Electric
ESRI AMFM Gas
ESRI AMFM Sewer
ESRI AMFM Water
ESRI ArcPad
ESRI Arrowhead
ESRI Business
ESRI Cartography
ESRI Caves 1
ESRI Caves 2
ESRI Caves 3
ESRI Climate & Precipitation
ESRI Commodities
ESRI Conservation
ESRI Crime Analysis
ESRI Default Marker
ESRI Dimensioning
ESRI Elements
ESRI Enviro Hazard Analysis
ESRI Enviro Hazard Incident
ESRI Enviro Hazard Sites
ESRI Environmental & Icons
ESRI ERS Infrastructures S1
ESRI ERS Operations S1
ESRI Fire Incident NFPA
ESRI Geology AGSO 1
ESRI Geology
ESRI Geology USGS 95-525
ESRI Geometric Symbols
ESRI Hazardous Materials
ESRI Hydrants
ESRI IGL Font16
ESRI IGL Font20
ESRI IGL Font21
ESRI IGL Font22
ESRI IGL Font23
ESRI IGL Font24
ESRI IGL Font25
ESRI Meteorological 01
ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers
ESRI MilMod 01
ESRI MilMod 02
ESRI MilRed 01
ESRI MilSym 01
ESRI MilSym 02
ESRI MilSym 03
ESRI MilSym 04
ESRI MilSym 05
ESRI NIMA City Graphic LN
ESRI NIMA City Graphic PT
ESRI NIMA DNC LN
ESRI NIMA DNC PT
ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 LN
ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 PT
ESRI North
ESRI Oil, Gas, & Water
ESRI Ordnance Survey
ESRI Pipeline US 1
ESRI Public1
ESRI SDS 1.95 1
ESRI SDS 1.95 2
ESRI SDS 2.00 1
ESRI SDS 2.00 2
ESRI Shields
ESRI Surveyor
ESRI Telecom
ESRI Transportation & Civic
ESRI US Forestry 1
ESRI US Forestry 2
ESRI US MUTCD 1
ESRI US MUTCD 2
ESRI US MUTCD 3
ESRI Weather
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
--
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Re: Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

Alexandre Neto
Regarding the mil2525 symbols there's this boundless plugin where there we a bunch of svg symbols


But that's only the tip of the iceberg...

Best regards,
Alexandre Neto

A quarta, 13/05/2020, 14:40, Jody Garnett <[hidden email]> escreveu:
This discussion starts to get into the value, it is a lot of work to gather up these original or alternate sources ... both for end users migrating to open source, and for OSGeo projects to do on their own. 

I think this would be a great group project.  

On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 3:44 AM Brad Hards <[hidden email]> wrote:
I have no idea what is in the map fonts (or even what an ESRI map font is), but if you're looking for the symbology for DNC and VMAP, (which sound vaguely like: ESRI NIMA DNC LN, ESRI NIMA DNC PT, ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 LN, ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 PT) its probably based on some variant of the NGA GeoSym stuff - MIL-HDBK-857A and MIL-DTL-89045/A

If you're prepared to deal with converting CGM to whatever that font thing is, you can download the definitions from the NGA GWG Portrayal Working Group at https://gwg.nga.mil/pfg_documents.php (expect a cert warning)

The ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers and some of those MilSym / MilMod things might be MIL-STD-2525 (aka STANAG APP-6) symbology. Not usually treated as a font though....

Brad

-----Original Message-----
From: Discuss <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Nyall Dawson
Sent: Tuesday, 12 May 2020 3:46 PM
To: Even Rouault <[hidden email]>
Cc: OSGeo Discussions <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

On Wed, 6 May 2020 at 01:13, Even Rouault <[hidden email]> wrote:

> for my understanding, and hopefully help others, I assume the issue is that you have a style definition where there are tuples of (font_identifier, symbol_identifier_in_the_font) to define the styling of layers with point geometries, right ?

Partially, but the "bigger picture" is that there's just no alternative freely available version of many of these symbol graphics themselves. That's the blocker that I've encountered.

> If that's only the former, then assuming there would be N open fonts already covering the whole set of ESRI symbology fonts (unlikely), one could possibly create a mapping between each tuple of (ESRI_font_id, ESRI_symbol_id) to (OPEN_font_id, OPEN_symbol_id). If the later, then you need a complete replacement for each proprietary font.

It's the later.

> How many symbols / fonts are we discussing about ?

There's about 73 fonts total (see list below, may not be complete), which average about 100 icons apiece.

ESRI AMFM Electric
ESRI AMFM Gas
ESRI AMFM Sewer
ESRI AMFM Water
ESRI ArcPad
ESRI Arrowhead
ESRI Business
ESRI Cartography
ESRI Caves 1
ESRI Caves 2
ESRI Caves 3
ESRI Climate & Precipitation
ESRI Commodities
ESRI Conservation
ESRI Crime Analysis
ESRI Default Marker
ESRI Dimensioning
ESRI Elements
ESRI Enviro Hazard Analysis
ESRI Enviro Hazard Incident
ESRI Enviro Hazard Sites
ESRI Environmental & Icons
ESRI ERS Infrastructures S1
ESRI ERS Operations S1
ESRI Fire Incident NFPA
ESRI Geology AGSO 1
ESRI Geology
ESRI Geology USGS 95-525
ESRI Geometric Symbols
ESRI Hazardous Materials
ESRI Hydrants
ESRI IGL Font16
ESRI IGL Font20
ESRI IGL Font21
ESRI IGL Font22
ESRI IGL Font23
ESRI IGL Font24
ESRI IGL Font25
ESRI Meteorological 01
ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers
ESRI MilMod 01
ESRI MilMod 02
ESRI MilRed 01
ESRI MilSym 01
ESRI MilSym 02
ESRI MilSym 03
ESRI MilSym 04
ESRI MilSym 05
ESRI NIMA City Graphic LN
ESRI NIMA City Graphic PT
ESRI NIMA DNC LN
ESRI NIMA DNC PT
ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 LN
ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 PT
ESRI North
ESRI Oil, Gas, & Water
ESRI Ordnance Survey
ESRI Pipeline US 1
ESRI Public1
ESRI SDS 1.95 1
ESRI SDS 1.95 2
ESRI SDS 2.00 1
ESRI SDS 2.00 2
ESRI Shields
ESRI Surveyor
ESRI Telecom
ESRI Transportation & Civic
ESRI US Forestry 1
ESRI US Forestry 2
ESRI US MUTCD 1
ESRI US MUTCD 2
ESRI US MUTCD 3
ESRI Weather
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
--
--
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[hidden email]
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Re: Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

Brad Hards

I’d suggest treating -2525 as a completely separate problem. It’s a huge “can of worms” that could derail the rest of it.

 

Brad

 

From: Alexandre Neto <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, 14 May 2020 1:46 AM
To: Jody Garnett <[hidden email]>
Cc: Brad Hards <[hidden email]>; OSGeo Discussions <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

 

Regarding the mil2525 symbols there's this boundless plugin where there we a bunch of svg symbols

 

 

But that's only the tip of the iceberg...

 

Best regards,

Alexandre Neto

 

A quarta, 13/05/2020, 14:40, Jody Garnett <[hidden email]> escreveu:

This discussion starts to get into the value, it is a lot of work to gather up these original or alternate sources ... both for end users migrating to open source, and for OSGeo projects to do on their own. 

 

I think this would be a great group project.  

 

On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 3:44 AM Brad Hards <[hidden email]> wrote:

I have no idea what is in the map fonts (or even what an ESRI map font is), but if you're looking for the symbology for DNC and VMAP, (which sound vaguely like: ESRI NIMA DNC LN, ESRI NIMA DNC PT, ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 LN, ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 PT) its probably based on some variant of the NGA GeoSym stuff - MIL-HDBK-857A and MIL-DTL-89045/A

If you're prepared to deal with converting CGM to whatever that font thing is, you can download the definitions from the NGA GWG Portrayal Working Group at https://gwg.nga.mil/pfg_documents.php (expect a cert warning)

The ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers and some of those MilSym / MilMod things might be MIL-STD-2525 (aka STANAG APP-6) symbology. Not usually treated as a font though....

Brad

-----Original Message-----
From: Discuss <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Nyall Dawson
Sent: Tuesday, 12 May 2020 3:46 PM
To: Even Rouault <[hidden email]>
Cc: OSGeo Discussions <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

On Wed, 6 May 2020 at 01:13, Even Rouault <[hidden email]> wrote:

> for my understanding, and hopefully help others, I assume the issue is that you have a style definition where there are tuples of (font_identifier, symbol_identifier_in_the_font) to define the styling of layers with point geometries, right ?

Partially, but the "bigger picture" is that there's just no alternative freely available version of many of these symbol graphics themselves. That's the blocker that I've encountered.

> If that's only the former, then assuming there would be N open fonts already covering the whole set of ESRI symbology fonts (unlikely), one could possibly create a mapping between each tuple of (ESRI_font_id, ESRI_symbol_id) to (OPEN_font_id, OPEN_symbol_id). If the later, then you need a complete replacement for each proprietary font.

It's the later.

> How many symbols / fonts are we discussing about ?

There's about 73 fonts total (see list below, may not be complete), which average about 100 icons apiece.

ESRI AMFM Electric
ESRI AMFM Gas
ESRI AMFM Sewer
ESRI AMFM Water
ESRI ArcPad
ESRI Arrowhead
ESRI Business
ESRI Cartography
ESRI Caves 1
ESRI Caves 2
ESRI Caves 3
ESRI Climate & Precipitation
ESRI Commodities
ESRI Conservation
ESRI Crime Analysis
ESRI Default Marker
ESRI Dimensioning
ESRI Elements
ESRI Enviro Hazard Analysis
ESRI Enviro Hazard Incident
ESRI Enviro Hazard Sites
ESRI Environmental & Icons
ESRI ERS Infrastructures S1
ESRI ERS Operations S1
ESRI Fire Incident NFPA
ESRI Geology AGSO 1
ESRI Geology
ESRI Geology USGS 95-525
ESRI Geometric Symbols
ESRI Hazardous Materials
ESRI Hydrants
ESRI IGL Font16
ESRI IGL Font20
ESRI IGL Font21
ESRI IGL Font22
ESRI IGL Font23
ESRI IGL Font24
ESRI IGL Font25
ESRI Meteorological 01
ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers
ESRI MilMod 01
ESRI MilMod 02
ESRI MilRed 01
ESRI MilSym 01
ESRI MilSym 02
ESRI MilSym 03
ESRI MilSym 04
ESRI MilSym 05
ESRI NIMA City Graphic LN
ESRI NIMA City Graphic PT
ESRI NIMA DNC LN
ESRI NIMA DNC PT
ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 LN
ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 PT
ESRI North
ESRI Oil, Gas, & Water
ESRI Ordnance Survey
ESRI Pipeline US 1
ESRI Public1
ESRI SDS 1.95 1
ESRI SDS 1.95 2
ESRI SDS 2.00 1
ESRI SDS 2.00 2
ESRI Shields
ESRI Surveyor
ESRI Telecom
ESRI Transportation & Civic
ESRI US Forestry 1
ESRI US Forestry 2
ESRI US MUTCD 1
ESRI US MUTCD 2
ESRI US MUTCD 3
ESRI Weather
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
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https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
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--

--

Jody Garnett

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Re: Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

Nyall Dawson
In reply to this post by jody.garnett
On Wed, 13 May 2020 at 23:38, Jody Garnett <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> This discussion starts to get into the value, it is a lot of work to gather up these original or alternate sources ... both for end users migrating to open source, and for OSGeo projects to do on their own.
>
> I think this would be a great group project.

Brett has recently compiled a summary of these fonts and symbols here:
https://github.com/Saijin-Naib/ESRI-Fonts-Cheat-Sheets

What I think we should aim for is an equivalent of the "Liberation"
font package, which implements freely licensed equivalents of the
standard Windows font packages (Arial, Times New Roman, etc), with
identical font metrics and similar styling so that they can be used
effectively as a drop-in replacement.

What would be the next step to move forward with this and approach
osgeo for funding?

Kind regards,
Nyall

>
> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 3:44 AM Brad Hards <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I have no idea what is in the map fonts (or even what an ESRI map font is), but if you're looking for the symbology for DNC and VMAP, (which sound vaguely like: ESRI NIMA DNC LN, ESRI NIMA DNC PT, ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 LN, ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 PT) its probably based on some variant of the NGA GeoSym stuff - MIL-HDBK-857A and MIL-DTL-89045/A
>>
>> If you're prepared to deal with converting CGM to whatever that font thing is, you can download the definitions from the NGA GWG Portrayal Working Group at https://gwg.nga.mil/pfg_documents.php (expect a cert warning)
>>
>> The ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers and some of those MilSym / MilMod things might be MIL-STD-2525 (aka STANAG APP-6) symbology. Not usually treated as a font though....
>>
>> Brad
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Discuss <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Nyall Dawson
>> Sent: Tuesday, 12 May 2020 3:46 PM
>> To: Even Rouault <[hidden email]>
>> Cc: OSGeo Discussions <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts
>>
>> On Wed, 6 May 2020 at 01:13, Even Rouault <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> > for my understanding, and hopefully help others, I assume the issue is that you have a style definition where there are tuples of (font_identifier, symbol_identifier_in_the_font) to define the styling of layers with point geometries, right ?
>>
>> Partially, but the "bigger picture" is that there's just no alternative freely available version of many of these symbol graphics themselves. That's the blocker that I've encountered.
>>
>> > If that's only the former, then assuming there would be N open fonts already covering the whole set of ESRI symbology fonts (unlikely), one could possibly create a mapping between each tuple of (ESRI_font_id, ESRI_symbol_id) to (OPEN_font_id, OPEN_symbol_id). If the later, then you need a complete replacement for each proprietary font.
>>
>> It's the later.
>>
>> > How many symbols / fonts are we discussing about ?
>>
>> There's about 73 fonts total (see list below, may not be complete), which average about 100 icons apiece.
>>
>> ESRI AMFM Electric
>> ESRI AMFM Gas
>> ESRI AMFM Sewer
>> ESRI AMFM Water
>> ESRI ArcPad
>> ESRI Arrowhead
>> ESRI Business
>> ESRI Cartography
>> ESRI Caves 1
>> ESRI Caves 2
>> ESRI Caves 3
>> ESRI Climate & Precipitation
>> ESRI Commodities
>> ESRI Conservation
>> ESRI Crime Analysis
>> ESRI Default Marker
>> ESRI Dimensioning
>> ESRI Elements
>> ESRI Enviro Hazard Analysis
>> ESRI Enviro Hazard Incident
>> ESRI Enviro Hazard Sites
>> ESRI Environmental & Icons
>> ESRI ERS Infrastructures S1
>> ESRI ERS Operations S1
>> ESRI Fire Incident NFPA
>> ESRI Geology AGSO 1
>> ESRI Geology
>> ESRI Geology USGS 95-525
>> ESRI Geometric Symbols
>> ESRI Hazardous Materials
>> ESRI Hydrants
>> ESRI IGL Font16
>> ESRI IGL Font20
>> ESRI IGL Font21
>> ESRI IGL Font22
>> ESRI IGL Font23
>> ESRI IGL Font24
>> ESRI IGL Font25
>> ESRI Meteorological 01
>> ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers
>> ESRI MilMod 01
>> ESRI MilMod 02
>> ESRI MilRed 01
>> ESRI MilSym 01
>> ESRI MilSym 02
>> ESRI MilSym 03
>> ESRI MilSym 04
>> ESRI MilSym 05
>> ESRI NIMA City Graphic LN
>> ESRI NIMA City Graphic PT
>> ESRI NIMA DNC LN
>> ESRI NIMA DNC PT
>> ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 LN
>> ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 PT
>> ESRI North
>> ESRI Oil, Gas, & Water
>> ESRI Ordnance Survey
>> ESRI Pipeline US 1
>> ESRI Public1
>> ESRI SDS 1.95 1
>> ESRI SDS 1.95 2
>> ESRI SDS 2.00 1
>> ESRI SDS 2.00 2
>> ESRI Shields
>> ESRI Surveyor
>> ESRI Telecom
>> ESRI Transportation & Civic
>> ESRI US Forestry 1
>> ESRI US Forestry 2
>> ESRI US MUTCD 1
>> ESRI US MUTCD 2
>> ESRI US MUTCD 3
>> ESRI Weather
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
> --
> --
> Jody Garnett
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Re: Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

jody.garnett
Make a proposal to the board if you want to set this up as a cross project initiative.

Marketing board would happy to accept your proposal also (this is a barrier to adoption).

Approach project PSC individually also works.

There is a PDF on osgeo GitHub on how to do this kind of thing ...

On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 5:36 PM Nyall Dawson <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Wed, 13 May 2020 at 23:38, Jody Garnett <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> This discussion starts to get into the value, it is a lot of work to gather up these original or alternate sources ... both for end users migrating to open source, and for OSGeo projects to do on their own.
>
> I think this would be a great group project.

Brett has recently compiled a summary of these fonts and symbols here:
https://github.com/Saijin-Naib/ESRI-Fonts-Cheat-Sheets

What I think we should aim for is an equivalent of the "Liberation"
font package, which implements freely licensed equivalents of the
standard Windows font packages (Arial, Times New Roman, etc), with
identical font metrics and similar styling so that they can be used
effectively as a drop-in replacement.

What would be the next step to move forward with this and approach
osgeo for funding?

Kind regards,
Nyall

>
> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 3:44 AM Brad Hards <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I have no idea what is in the map fonts (or even what an ESRI map font is), but if you're looking for the symbology for DNC and VMAP, (which sound vaguely like: ESRI NIMA DNC LN, ESRI NIMA DNC PT, ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 LN, ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 PT) its probably based on some variant of the NGA GeoSym stuff - MIL-HDBK-857A and MIL-DTL-89045/A
>>
>> If you're prepared to deal with converting CGM to whatever that font thing is, you can download the definitions from the NGA GWG Portrayal Working Group at https://gwg.nga.mil/pfg_documents.php (expect a cert warning)
>>
>> The ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers and some of those MilSym / MilMod things might be MIL-STD-2525 (aka STANAG APP-6) symbology. Not usually treated as a font though....
>>
>> Brad
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Discuss <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Nyall Dawson
>> Sent: Tuesday, 12 May 2020 3:46 PM
>> To: Even Rouault <[hidden email]>
>> Cc: OSGeo Discussions <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts
>>
>> On Wed, 6 May 2020 at 01:13, Even Rouault <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> > for my understanding, and hopefully help others, I assume the issue is that you have a style definition where there are tuples of (font_identifier, symbol_identifier_in_the_font) to define the styling of layers with point geometries, right ?
>>
>> Partially, but the "bigger picture" is that there's just no alternative freely available version of many of these symbol graphics themselves. That's the blocker that I've encountered.
>>
>> > If that's only the former, then assuming there would be N open fonts already covering the whole set of ESRI symbology fonts (unlikely), one could possibly create a mapping between each tuple of (ESRI_font_id, ESRI_symbol_id) to (OPEN_font_id, OPEN_symbol_id). If the later, then you need a complete replacement for each proprietary font.
>>
>> It's the later.
>>
>> > How many symbols / fonts are we discussing about ?
>>
>> There's about 73 fonts total (see list below, may not be complete), which average about 100 icons apiece.
>>
>> ESRI AMFM Electric
>> ESRI AMFM Gas
>> ESRI AMFM Sewer
>> ESRI AMFM Water
>> ESRI ArcPad
>> ESRI Arrowhead
>> ESRI Business
>> ESRI Cartography
>> ESRI Caves 1
>> ESRI Caves 2
>> ESRI Caves 3
>> ESRI Climate & Precipitation
>> ESRI Commodities
>> ESRI Conservation
>> ESRI Crime Analysis
>> ESRI Default Marker
>> ESRI Dimensioning
>> ESRI Elements
>> ESRI Enviro Hazard Analysis
>> ESRI Enviro Hazard Incident
>> ESRI Enviro Hazard Sites
>> ESRI Environmental & Icons
>> ESRI ERS Infrastructures S1
>> ESRI ERS Operations S1
>> ESRI Fire Incident NFPA
>> ESRI Geology AGSO 1
>> ESRI Geology
>> ESRI Geology USGS 95-525
>> ESRI Geometric Symbols
>> ESRI Hazardous Materials
>> ESRI Hydrants
>> ESRI IGL Font16
>> ESRI IGL Font20
>> ESRI IGL Font21
>> ESRI IGL Font22
>> ESRI IGL Font23
>> ESRI IGL Font24
>> ESRI IGL Font25
>> ESRI Meteorological 01
>> ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers
>> ESRI MilMod 01
>> ESRI MilMod 02
>> ESRI MilRed 01
>> ESRI MilSym 01
>> ESRI MilSym 02
>> ESRI MilSym 03
>> ESRI MilSym 04
>> ESRI MilSym 05
>> ESRI NIMA City Graphic LN
>> ESRI NIMA City Graphic PT
>> ESRI NIMA DNC LN
>> ESRI NIMA DNC PT
>> ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 LN
>> ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 PT
>> ESRI North
>> ESRI Oil, Gas, & Water
>> ESRI Ordnance Survey
>> ESRI Pipeline US 1
>> ESRI Public1
>> ESRI SDS 1.95 1
>> ESRI SDS 1.95 2
>> ESRI SDS 2.00 1
>> ESRI SDS 2.00 2
>> ESRI Shields
>> ESRI Surveyor
>> ESRI Telecom
>> ESRI Transportation & Civic
>> ESRI US Forestry 1
>> ESRI US Forestry 2
>> ESRI US MUTCD 1
>> ESRI US MUTCD 2
>> ESRI US MUTCD 3
>> ESRI Weather
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
> --
> --
> Jody Garnett
--
--
Jody Garnett

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Re: Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

Nyall Dawson
On Fri, 24 Jul 2020 at 13:09, Jody Garnett <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Make a proposal to the board if you want to set this up as a cross project initiative.
>
> Marketing board would happy to accept your proposal also (this is a barrier to adoption).
>
> Approach project PSC individually also works.
>
> There is a PDF on osgeo GitHub on how to do this kind of thing ...

Thanks Jody!

Have you got a link to this PDF?

Nyall

>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 5:36 PM Nyall Dawson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 13 May 2020 at 23:38, Jody Garnett <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> > This discussion starts to get into the value, it is a lot of work to gather up these original or alternate sources ... both for end users migrating to open source, and for OSGeo projects to do on their own.
>> >
>> > I think this would be a great group project.
>>
>> Brett has recently compiled a summary of these fonts and symbols here:
>> https://github.com/Saijin-Naib/ESRI-Fonts-Cheat-Sheets
>>
>> What I think we should aim for is an equivalent of the "Liberation"
>> font package, which implements freely licensed equivalents of the
>> standard Windows font packages (Arial, Times New Roman, etc), with
>> identical font metrics and similar styling so that they can be used
>> effectively as a drop-in replacement.
>>
>> What would be the next step to move forward with this and approach
>> osgeo for funding?
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Nyall
>>
>> >
>> > On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 3:44 AM Brad Hards <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I have no idea what is in the map fonts (or even what an ESRI map font is), but if you're looking for the symbology for DNC and VMAP, (which sound vaguely like: ESRI NIMA DNC LN, ESRI NIMA DNC PT, ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 LN, ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 PT) its probably based on some variant of the NGA GeoSym stuff - MIL-HDBK-857A and MIL-DTL-89045/A
>> >>
>> >> If you're prepared to deal with converting CGM to whatever that font thing is, you can download the definitions from the NGA GWG Portrayal Working Group at https://gwg.nga.mil/pfg_documents.php (expect a cert warning)
>> >>
>> >> The ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers and some of those MilSym / MilMod things might be MIL-STD-2525 (aka STANAG APP-6) symbology. Not usually treated as a font though....
>> >>
>> >> Brad
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Discuss <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Nyall Dawson
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, 12 May 2020 3:46 PM
>> >> To: Even Rouault <[hidden email]>
>> >> Cc: OSGeo Discussions <[hidden email]>
>> >> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, 6 May 2020 at 01:13, Even Rouault <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > for my understanding, and hopefully help others, I assume the issue is that you have a style definition where there are tuples of (font_identifier, symbol_identifier_in_the_font) to define the styling of layers with point geometries, right ?
>> >>
>> >> Partially, but the "bigger picture" is that there's just no alternative freely available version of many of these symbol graphics themselves. That's the blocker that I've encountered.
>> >>
>> >> > If that's only the former, then assuming there would be N open fonts already covering the whole set of ESRI symbology fonts (unlikely), one could possibly create a mapping between each tuple of (ESRI_font_id, ESRI_symbol_id) to (OPEN_font_id, OPEN_symbol_id). If the later, then you need a complete replacement for each proprietary font.
>> >>
>> >> It's the later.
>> >>
>> >> > How many symbols / fonts are we discussing about ?
>> >>
>> >> There's about 73 fonts total (see list below, may not be complete), which average about 100 icons apiece.
>> >>
>> >> ESRI AMFM Electric
>> >> ESRI AMFM Gas
>> >> ESRI AMFM Sewer
>> >> ESRI AMFM Water
>> >> ESRI ArcPad
>> >> ESRI Arrowhead
>> >> ESRI Business
>> >> ESRI Cartography
>> >> ESRI Caves 1
>> >> ESRI Caves 2
>> >> ESRI Caves 3
>> >> ESRI Climate & Precipitation
>> >> ESRI Commodities
>> >> ESRI Conservation
>> >> ESRI Crime Analysis
>> >> ESRI Default Marker
>> >> ESRI Dimensioning
>> >> ESRI Elements
>> >> ESRI Enviro Hazard Analysis
>> >> ESRI Enviro Hazard Incident
>> >> ESRI Enviro Hazard Sites
>> >> ESRI Environmental & Icons
>> >> ESRI ERS Infrastructures S1
>> >> ESRI ERS Operations S1
>> >> ESRI Fire Incident NFPA
>> >> ESRI Geology AGSO 1
>> >> ESRI Geology
>> >> ESRI Geology USGS 95-525
>> >> ESRI Geometric Symbols
>> >> ESRI Hazardous Materials
>> >> ESRI Hydrants
>> >> ESRI IGL Font16
>> >> ESRI IGL Font20
>> >> ESRI IGL Font21
>> >> ESRI IGL Font22
>> >> ESRI IGL Font23
>> >> ESRI IGL Font24
>> >> ESRI IGL Font25
>> >> ESRI Meteorological 01
>> >> ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers
>> >> ESRI MilMod 01
>> >> ESRI MilMod 02
>> >> ESRI MilRed 01
>> >> ESRI MilSym 01
>> >> ESRI MilSym 02
>> >> ESRI MilSym 03
>> >> ESRI MilSym 04
>> >> ESRI MilSym 05
>> >> ESRI NIMA City Graphic LN
>> >> ESRI NIMA City Graphic PT
>> >> ESRI NIMA DNC LN
>> >> ESRI NIMA DNC PT
>> >> ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 LN
>> >> ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 PT
>> >> ESRI North
>> >> ESRI Oil, Gas, & Water
>> >> ESRI Ordnance Survey
>> >> ESRI Pipeline US 1
>> >> ESRI Public1
>> >> ESRI SDS 1.95 1
>> >> ESRI SDS 1.95 2
>> >> ESRI SDS 2.00 1
>> >> ESRI SDS 2.00 2
>> >> ESRI Shields
>> >> ESRI Surveyor
>> >> ESRI Telecom
>> >> ESRI Transportation & Civic
>> >> ESRI US Forestry 1
>> >> ESRI US Forestry 2
>> >> ESRI US MUTCD 1
>> >> ESRI US MUTCD 2
>> >> ESRI US MUTCD 3
>> >> ESRI Weather
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Discuss mailing list
>> >> [hidden email]
>> >> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Discuss mailing list
>> >> [hidden email]
>> >> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>> >
>> > --
>> > --
>> > Jody Garnett
>
> --
> --
> Jody Garnett
_______________________________________________
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Re: Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

Angelos Tzotsos
https://github.com/OSGeo/osgeo/blob/master/board/documents/osgeo_financial_guidance.pdf

On 7/24/20 9:41 AM, Nyall Dawson wrote:

> On Fri, 24 Jul 2020 at 13:09, Jody Garnett <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Make a proposal to the board if you want to set this up as a cross project initiative.
>>
>> Marketing board would happy to accept your proposal also (this is a barrier to adoption).
>>
>> Approach project PSC individually also works.
>>
>> There is a PDF on osgeo GitHub on how to do this kind of thing ...
> Thanks Jody!
>
> Have you got a link to this PDF?
>
> Nyall
>
>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 5:36 PM Nyall Dawson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 13 May 2020 at 23:38, Jody Garnett <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> This discussion starts to get into the value, it is a lot of work to gather up these original or alternate sources ... both for end users migrating to open source, and for OSGeo projects to do on their own.
>>>>
>>>> I think this would be a great group project.
>>> Brett has recently compiled a summary of these fonts and symbols here:
>>> https://github.com/Saijin-Naib/ESRI-Fonts-Cheat-Sheets
>>>
>>> What I think we should aim for is an equivalent of the "Liberation"
>>> font package, which implements freely licensed equivalents of the
>>> standard Windows font packages (Arial, Times New Roman, etc), with
>>> identical font metrics and similar styling so that they can be used
>>> effectively as a drop-in replacement.
>>>
>>> What would be the next step to move forward with this and approach
>>> osgeo for funding?
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>> Nyall
>>>
>>>> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 3:44 AM Brad Hards <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>> I have no idea what is in the map fonts (or even what an ESRI map font is), but if you're looking for the symbology for DNC and VMAP, (which sound vaguely like: ESRI NIMA DNC LN, ESRI NIMA DNC PT, ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 LN, ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 PT) its probably based on some variant of the NGA GeoSym stuff - MIL-HDBK-857A and MIL-DTL-89045/A
>>>>>
>>>>> If you're prepared to deal with converting CGM to whatever that font thing is, you can download the definitions from the NGA GWG Portrayal Working Group at https://gwg.nga.mil/pfg_documents.php (expect a cert warning)
>>>>>
>>>>> The ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers and some of those MilSym / MilMod things might be MIL-STD-2525 (aka STANAG APP-6) symbology. Not usually treated as a font though....
>>>>>
>>>>> Brad
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Discuss <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Nyall Dawson
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 12 May 2020 3:46 PM
>>>>> To: Even Rouault <[hidden email]>
>>>>> Cc: OSGeo Discussions <[hidden email]>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 6 May 2020 at 01:13, Even Rouault <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> for my understanding, and hopefully help others, I assume the issue is that you have a style definition where there are tuples of (font_identifier, symbol_identifier_in_the_font) to define the styling of layers with point geometries, right ?
>>>>> Partially, but the "bigger picture" is that there's just no alternative freely available version of many of these symbol graphics themselves. That's the blocker that I've encountered.
>>>>>
>>>>>> If that's only the former, then assuming there would be N open fonts already covering the whole set of ESRI symbology fonts (unlikely), one could possibly create a mapping between each tuple of (ESRI_font_id, ESRI_symbol_id) to (OPEN_font_id, OPEN_symbol_id). If the later, then you need a complete replacement for each proprietary font.
>>>>> It's the later.
>>>>>
>>>>>> How many symbols / fonts are we discussing about ?
>>>>> There's about 73 fonts total (see list below, may not be complete), which average about 100 icons apiece.
>>>>>
>>>>> ESRI AMFM Electric
>>>>> ESRI AMFM Gas
>>>>> ESRI AMFM Sewer
>>>>> ESRI AMFM Water
>>>>> ESRI ArcPad
>>>>> ESRI Arrowhead
>>>>> ESRI Business
>>>>> ESRI Cartography
>>>>> ESRI Caves 1
>>>>> ESRI Caves 2
>>>>> ESRI Caves 3
>>>>> ESRI Climate & Precipitation
>>>>> ESRI Commodities
>>>>> ESRI Conservation
>>>>> ESRI Crime Analysis
>>>>> ESRI Default Marker
>>>>> ESRI Dimensioning
>>>>> ESRI Elements
>>>>> ESRI Enviro Hazard Analysis
>>>>> ESRI Enviro Hazard Incident
>>>>> ESRI Enviro Hazard Sites
>>>>> ESRI Environmental & Icons
>>>>> ESRI ERS Infrastructures S1
>>>>> ESRI ERS Operations S1
>>>>> ESRI Fire Incident NFPA
>>>>> ESRI Geology AGSO 1
>>>>> ESRI Geology
>>>>> ESRI Geology USGS 95-525
>>>>> ESRI Geometric Symbols
>>>>> ESRI Hazardous Materials
>>>>> ESRI Hydrants
>>>>> ESRI IGL Font16
>>>>> ESRI IGL Font20
>>>>> ESRI IGL Font21
>>>>> ESRI IGL Font22
>>>>> ESRI IGL Font23
>>>>> ESRI IGL Font24
>>>>> ESRI IGL Font25
>>>>> ESRI Meteorological 01
>>>>> ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers
>>>>> ESRI MilMod 01
>>>>> ESRI MilMod 02
>>>>> ESRI MilRed 01
>>>>> ESRI MilSym 01
>>>>> ESRI MilSym 02
>>>>> ESRI MilSym 03
>>>>> ESRI MilSym 04
>>>>> ESRI MilSym 05
>>>>> ESRI NIMA City Graphic LN
>>>>> ESRI NIMA City Graphic PT
>>>>> ESRI NIMA DNC LN
>>>>> ESRI NIMA DNC PT
>>>>> ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 LN
>>>>> ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 PT
>>>>> ESRI North
>>>>> ESRI Oil, Gas, & Water
>>>>> ESRI Ordnance Survey
>>>>> ESRI Pipeline US 1
>>>>> ESRI Public1
>>>>> ESRI SDS 1.95 1
>>>>> ESRI SDS 1.95 2
>>>>> ESRI SDS 2.00 1
>>>>> ESRI SDS 2.00 2
>>>>> ESRI Shields
>>>>> ESRI Surveyor
>>>>> ESRI Telecom
>>>>> ESRI Transportation & Civic
>>>>> ESRI US Forestry 1
>>>>> ESRI US Forestry 2
>>>>> ESRI US MUTCD 1
>>>>> ESRI US MUTCD 2
>>>>> ESRI US MUTCD 3
>>>>> ESRI Weather
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>> --
>>>> --
>>>> Jody Garnett
>> --
>> --
>> Jody Garnett
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


--
Angelos Tzotsos, PhD
President
Open Source Geospatial Foundation
http://users.ntua.gr/tzotsos

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Re: Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

jody.garnett
The PDF is a really “just tell us your idea” rather than  “pretend everything is a code sprint”  (which was previously the only document with clear instructions on how to apply for funding). 

I am really glad to see this idea go ahead, there are several traditional reasons for avoiding open source: GeoForAll meets the “lack of educational materials goal”, a font can help meet the “I have to follow official cartography goal”, advocacy can help meet the “huh?” confusion :)



On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 4:12 AM Angelos Tzotsos <[hidden email]> wrote:
https://github.com/OSGeo/osgeo/blob/master/board/documents/osgeo_financial_guidance.pdf

On 7/24/20 9:41 AM, Nyall Dawson wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Jul 2020 at 13:09, Jody Garnett <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Make a proposal to the board if you want to set this up as a cross project initiative.
>>
>> Marketing board would happy to accept your proposal also (this is a barrier to adoption).
>>
>> Approach project PSC individually also works.
>>
>> There is a PDF on osgeo GitHub on how to do this kind of thing ...
> Thanks Jody!
>
> Have you got a link to this PDF?
>
> Nyall
>
>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 5:36 PM Nyall Dawson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 13 May 2020 at 23:38, Jody Garnett <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> This discussion starts to get into the value, it is a lot of work to gather up these original or alternate sources ... both for end users migrating to open source, and for OSGeo projects to do on their own.
>>>>
>>>> I think this would be a great group project.
>>> Brett has recently compiled a summary of these fonts and symbols here:
>>> https://github.com/Saijin-Naib/ESRI-Fonts-Cheat-Sheets
>>>
>>> What I think we should aim for is an equivalent of the "Liberation"
>>> font package, which implements freely licensed equivalents of the
>>> standard Windows font packages (Arial, Times New Roman, etc), with
>>> identical font metrics and similar styling so that they can be used
>>> effectively as a drop-in replacement.
>>>
>>> What would be the next step to move forward with this and approach
>>> osgeo for funding?
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>> Nyall
>>>
>>>> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 3:44 AM Brad Hards <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>> I have no idea what is in the map fonts (or even what an ESRI map font is), but if you're looking for the symbology for DNC and VMAP, (which sound vaguely like: ESRI NIMA DNC LN, ESRI NIMA DNC PT, ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 LN, ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 PT) its probably based on some variant of the NGA GeoSym stuff - MIL-HDBK-857A and MIL-DTL-89045/A
>>>>>
>>>>> If you're prepared to deal with converting CGM to whatever that font thing is, you can download the definitions from the NGA GWG Portrayal Working Group at https://gwg.nga.mil/pfg_documents.php (expect a cert warning)
>>>>>
>>>>> The ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers and some of those MilSym / MilMod things might be MIL-STD-2525 (aka STANAG APP-6) symbology. Not usually treated as a font though....
>>>>>
>>>>> Brad
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Discuss <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Nyall Dawson
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 12 May 2020 3:46 PM
>>>>> To: Even Rouault <[hidden email]>
>>>>> Cc: OSGeo Discussions <[hidden email]>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 6 May 2020 at 01:13, Even Rouault <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> for my understanding, and hopefully help others, I assume the issue is that you have a style definition where there are tuples of (font_identifier, symbol_identifier_in_the_font) to define the styling of layers with point geometries, right ?
>>>>> Partially, but the "bigger picture" is that there's just no alternative freely available version of many of these symbol graphics themselves. That's the blocker that I've encountered.
>>>>>
>>>>>> If that's only the former, then assuming there would be N open fonts already covering the whole set of ESRI symbology fonts (unlikely), one could possibly create a mapping between each tuple of (ESRI_font_id, ESRI_symbol_id) to (OPEN_font_id, OPEN_symbol_id). If the later, then you need a complete replacement for each proprietary font.
>>>>> It's the later.
>>>>>
>>>>>> How many symbols / fonts are we discussing about ?
>>>>> There's about 73 fonts total (see list below, may not be complete), which average about 100 icons apiece.
>>>>>
>>>>> ESRI AMFM Electric
>>>>> ESRI AMFM Gas
>>>>> ESRI AMFM Sewer
>>>>> ESRI AMFM Water
>>>>> ESRI ArcPad
>>>>> ESRI Arrowhead
>>>>> ESRI Business
>>>>> ESRI Cartography
>>>>> ESRI Caves 1
>>>>> ESRI Caves 2
>>>>> ESRI Caves 3
>>>>> ESRI Climate & Precipitation
>>>>> ESRI Commodities
>>>>> ESRI Conservation
>>>>> ESRI Crime Analysis
>>>>> ESRI Default Marker
>>>>> ESRI Dimensioning
>>>>> ESRI Elements
>>>>> ESRI Enviro Hazard Analysis
>>>>> ESRI Enviro Hazard Incident
>>>>> ESRI Enviro Hazard Sites
>>>>> ESRI Environmental & Icons
>>>>> ESRI ERS Infrastructures S1
>>>>> ESRI ERS Operations S1
>>>>> ESRI Fire Incident NFPA
>>>>> ESRI Geology AGSO 1
>>>>> ESRI Geology
>>>>> ESRI Geology USGS 95-525
>>>>> ESRI Geometric Symbols
>>>>> ESRI Hazardous Materials
>>>>> ESRI Hydrants
>>>>> ESRI IGL Font16
>>>>> ESRI IGL Font20
>>>>> ESRI IGL Font21
>>>>> ESRI IGL Font22
>>>>> ESRI IGL Font23
>>>>> ESRI IGL Font24
>>>>> ESRI IGL Font25
>>>>> ESRI Meteorological 01
>>>>> ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers
>>>>> ESRI MilMod 01
>>>>> ESRI MilMod 02
>>>>> ESRI MilRed 01
>>>>> ESRI MilSym 01
>>>>> ESRI MilSym 02
>>>>> ESRI MilSym 03
>>>>> ESRI MilSym 04
>>>>> ESRI MilSym 05
>>>>> ESRI NIMA City Graphic LN
>>>>> ESRI NIMA City Graphic PT
>>>>> ESRI NIMA DNC LN
>>>>> ESRI NIMA DNC PT
>>>>> ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 LN
>>>>> ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 PT
>>>>> ESRI North
>>>>> ESRI Oil, Gas, & Water
>>>>> ESRI Ordnance Survey
>>>>> ESRI Pipeline US 1
>>>>> ESRI Public1
>>>>> ESRI SDS 1.95 1
>>>>> ESRI SDS 1.95 2
>>>>> ESRI SDS 2.00 1
>>>>> ESRI SDS 2.00 2
>>>>> ESRI Shields
>>>>> ESRI Surveyor
>>>>> ESRI Telecom
>>>>> ESRI Transportation & Civic
>>>>> ESRI US Forestry 1
>>>>> ESRI US Forestry 2
>>>>> ESRI US MUTCD 1
>>>>> ESRI US MUTCD 2
>>>>> ESRI US MUTCD 3
>>>>> ESRI Weather
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>> --
>>>> --
>>>> Jody Garnett
>> --
>> --
>> Jody Garnett
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


--
Angelos Tzotsos, PhD
President
Open Source Geospatial Foundation
http://users.ntua.gr/tzotsos

--
--
Jody Garnett

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Re: Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts

Jonathan Moules-4
In reply to this post by Nyall Dawson
Once you've got any completed fonts, it may be worth contributing them
to the Open Font Library: https://fontlibrary.org/

It already has a number of fonts that you may wish to draw from:
https://fontlibrary.org/en/search?category=dingbat&order= (reinventing
the wheel and all that) (and I learnt today that these are called
"dingbats").

Cheers,

Jonathan

On 2020-07-24 01:36, Nyall Dawson wrote:

> On Wed, 13 May 2020 at 23:38, Jody Garnett <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> This discussion starts to get into the value, it is a lot of work to gather up these original or alternate sources ... both for end users migrating to open source, and for OSGeo projects to do on their own.
>>
>> I think this would be a great group project.
> Brett has recently compiled a summary of these fonts and symbols here:
> https://github.com/Saijin-Naib/ESRI-Fonts-Cheat-Sheets
>
> What I think we should aim for is an equivalent of the "Liberation"
> font package, which implements freely licensed equivalents of the
> standard Windows font packages (Arial, Times New Roman, etc), with
> identical font metrics and similar styling so that they can be used
> effectively as a drop-in replacement.
>
> What would be the next step to move forward with this and approach
> osgeo for funding?
>
> Kind regards,
> Nyall
>
>> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 3:44 AM Brad Hards <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> I have no idea what is in the map fonts (or even what an ESRI map font is), but if you're looking for the symbology for DNC and VMAP, (which sound vaguely like: ESRI NIMA DNC LN, ESRI NIMA DNC PT, ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 LN, ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 PT) its probably based on some variant of the NGA GeoSym stuff - MIL-HDBK-857A and MIL-DTL-89045/A
>>>
>>> If you're prepared to deal with converting CGM to whatever that font thing is, you can download the definitions from the NGA GWG Portrayal Working Group at https://gwg.nga.mil/pfg_documents.php (expect a cert warning)
>>>
>>> The ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers and some of those MilSym / MilMod things might be MIL-STD-2525 (aka STANAG APP-6) symbology. Not usually treated as a font though....
>>>
>>> Brad
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Discuss <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Nyall Dawson
>>> Sent: Tuesday, 12 May 2020 3:46 PM
>>> To: Even Rouault <[hidden email]>
>>> Cc: OSGeo Discussions <[hidden email]>
>>> Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Free licensed alternative to ESRI map fonts
>>>
>>> On Wed, 6 May 2020 at 01:13, Even Rouault <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> for my understanding, and hopefully help others, I assume the issue is that you have a style definition where there are tuples of (font_identifier, symbol_identifier_in_the_font) to define the styling of layers with point geometries, right ?
>>> Partially, but the "bigger picture" is that there's just no alternative freely available version of many of these symbol graphics themselves. That's the blocker that I've encountered.
>>>
>>>> If that's only the former, then assuming there would be N open fonts already covering the whole set of ESRI symbology fonts (unlikely), one could possibly create a mapping between each tuple of (ESRI_font_id, ESRI_symbol_id) to (OPEN_font_id, OPEN_symbol_id). If the later, then you need a complete replacement for each proprietary font.
>>> It's the later.
>>>
>>>> How many symbols / fonts are we discussing about ?
>>> There's about 73 fonts total (see list below, may not be complete), which average about 100 icons apiece.
>>>
>>> ESRI AMFM Electric
>>> ESRI AMFM Gas
>>> ESRI AMFM Sewer
>>> ESRI AMFM Water
>>> ESRI ArcPad
>>> ESRI Arrowhead
>>> ESRI Business
>>> ESRI Cartography
>>> ESRI Caves 1
>>> ESRI Caves 2
>>> ESRI Caves 3
>>> ESRI Climate & Precipitation
>>> ESRI Commodities
>>> ESRI Conservation
>>> ESRI Crime Analysis
>>> ESRI Default Marker
>>> ESRI Dimensioning
>>> ESRI Elements
>>> ESRI Enviro Hazard Analysis
>>> ESRI Enviro Hazard Incident
>>> ESRI Enviro Hazard Sites
>>> ESRI Environmental & Icons
>>> ESRI ERS Infrastructures S1
>>> ESRI ERS Operations S1
>>> ESRI Fire Incident NFPA
>>> ESRI Geology AGSO 1
>>> ESRI Geology
>>> ESRI Geology USGS 95-525
>>> ESRI Geometric Symbols
>>> ESRI Hazardous Materials
>>> ESRI Hydrants
>>> ESRI IGL Font16
>>> ESRI IGL Font20
>>> ESRI IGL Font21
>>> ESRI IGL Font22
>>> ESRI IGL Font23
>>> ESRI IGL Font24
>>> ESRI IGL Font25
>>> ESRI Meteorological 01
>>> ESRI Mil2525C Modifiers
>>> ESRI MilMod 01
>>> ESRI MilMod 02
>>> ESRI MilRed 01
>>> ESRI MilSym 01
>>> ESRI MilSym 02
>>> ESRI MilSym 03
>>> ESRI MilSym 04
>>> ESRI MilSym 05
>>> ESRI NIMA City Graphic LN
>>> ESRI NIMA City Graphic PT
>>> ESRI NIMA DNC LN
>>> ESRI NIMA DNC PT
>>> ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 LN
>>> ESRI NIMA VMAP1&2 PT
>>> ESRI North
>>> ESRI Oil, Gas, & Water
>>> ESRI Ordnance Survey
>>> ESRI Pipeline US 1
>>> ESRI Public1
>>> ESRI SDS 1.95 1
>>> ESRI SDS 1.95 2
>>> ESRI SDS 2.00 1
>>> ESRI SDS 2.00 2
>>> ESRI Shields
>>> ESRI Surveyor
>>> ESRI Telecom
>>> ESRI Transportation & Civic
>>> ESRI US Forestry 1
>>> ESRI US Forestry 2
>>> ESRI US MUTCD 1
>>> ESRI US MUTCD 2
>>> ESRI US MUTCD 3
>>> ESRI Weather
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Discuss mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Discuss mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>> --
>> --
>> Jody Garnett
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss