[ForestryTools] Fwd: Re: Sv: Re: QGIS Forestry Plugin

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[ForestryTools] Fwd: Re: Sv: Re: QGIS Forestry Plugin

Magnus Homann
Didn't show up the first time?

Magnus Homann <[hidden email]> skrev:
For me, the main use would not be algorithmic calculation of forest standing volume in the future (although very nice to have!), but a place to store what I've measured, what I've done and possibly plans for the future. Important for me is the possibility to visualize change over time.

So, perhaps we should focus on database entry and visualization, and let people add functions working on database later?

Or am I way off here?

Magnus

Lee <[hidden email]> skrev:

I think you raise a valid point Jake. While I think a completely internal inventory plugin has ultimate appeal, perhaps we should start by linking the qgis spatial solutions to existing inventory options. Maybe then the inventory portion would be a later development.

So I'd ask...
Would splitting forestry operations across several programs hamper adoption? Is it feasible to find ways to play nicely with several programs and formats? Which is more useful long run to our industry people? What is the minimum acceptable product to launch and foster continued interest?

On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 12:46 PM, Jake Maier <[hidden email]> wrote:

Great work Lee. Thanks a lot for all your effort.

I’m still not very clear in my head (had triple bypass 2 weeks ago for those who didn’t catch that) so please be patient with me if I totally miss the point.

What caught my eye a bit in Lee’s email is that I have the feeling that you try to duplicate existing inventory computation too much. Most of us may already have our favorite inventory program, and I think that is not necessary to go there.

 

I very much agree that the plugin should distribute the plots on the map, and here I would fall back on Kim Isles a biometrician in Canada who has a very nice and comprehensive database that could be used to very sophistically distribute the number of plots within the stands, depending on value of the individual stands (you may not want the same precision in a swamp as you want in a veneer stand).

I can provide all the formulas for that.

Then I could see that rather than to create volume and stand tables, we may want to import back the calculated date from the specialized inventory program and display distribution values in different colors on the map.

So I hope my brain is not still too confused and I make at least some sense.

Again thank you everybody for this important work. Especially you, Lee, as you seems to take the lead.

Jake

 

From: Lee [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 12:21 PM
To: Jeff Hamann
Cc: [hidden email]; Tyler Mitchell; Noli Sicad; Magnus Homann; Jake Maier; Jeremy Hill Hill; Aaron Weiskittel; Max Uhlenhuth
Subject: Re: Sv: Re: QGIS Forestry Plugin

 

I've added Max Uhlenhuth to our emails based on the interest he provided in the talk:forestry tools page. He's a founder of SilviaTerra who developed the free phone applet plothound among other interesting forest inventory methods.

We can begin the discussion here, and move over to the mailing list once it's up and running.

Noli posed the following:
I think you start discussion details on what you want for this plugin.
You know what you want.

So I'll start the chatter.

Right now, there's a few of us interested in allocating personal resources to developing this plugin. We're involved for a variety of reasons, but I think we all see a need and see it as a tool for engaging the forestry community in utilizing QGIS more effectively. Moreover, there are few effective, approachable, and free/open-source complete inventory and analysis software packages available to the average forester. So, that's the end goal.

We have to start somewhere. I feel it is important to begin with a foundation that is useful enough to create interest or buzz. Hopefully it will become noticed enough to interest others enough to leverage additional resources (manpower, etc). From this standpoint, I think we need the VERY basic functionality of a forest inventory analysis package.

That would be:
- Allocating inventory plots to stands.
- Aggregating information from those plots to calculate stand tables and volume tables.
- Link the generated reports to stands in stand vector file.

  1. Let's say I have a 40 acre parcel. I use aerial photographs to pre-draw 2 stands in a standard vector layer.
  2. I then use the forestry plugin to place 20 plots across the two stands in a new vector file.
  3. I collect basic forest inventory data (Plot #, species, dbh, logs or ht or sticks, etc), bring it back, and place it in an accessible format like .csv.
  4. This should probably then be loaded into a database which links with the stand vector file.
  5. Forestry plugin links the plot #'s in the inventory file, to the plot #'s in the vector file, and assigns stand numbers based on their locations within the stand vector file.
  6. Forestry plugin uses this linkage, to aggregate the plot's information to generate a stand table (trees per acre by species and size) and volume table (volume per acre by species and product) for each stand.

I think this is the basic functionality that would generate a bit more interest in our project. The above is obviously simplified to illustrate a purpose. We can begin getting into a host of questions such as: which cruise method is used? Which formula for  volume calculation? What about custom fields in inventory? How about aggregating volume in a stand, rather than per acre? How about species specific volume calculation methods? These are all valid questions for a complete, robust, useful plugin. Ones we will have to address as we progress. However, for the time being, I think we need something that shows the promise of being useful and comprehensive. We can then go back and add additional features as we begin to develop the framework. I think if we can at least accomplish the above, we're in a great place to begin to show some real promise for further development such as forest estate planning, economic analysis, and field collection.

Does the above seem to be the basic "first release" necessary? Are there elements missing? Extra elements? Does it completely miss the boat? Does it meet your vision for what this needs to be? Does it seem like a good platform to begin work from?

Then...

Where is the best place to start? How do we divvy the work? And how are you willing to help?

Again, I'm not at all familiar with the inner workings of QGIS or python. My past experience has been in C/C++ and moreso PHP. Therefore, I think the first steps to wrap my head around this is to sit down and begin writing some of the python functions necessary for volume calculation and handling the import of an inventory file. As we start to get into database linkages and GIS file handling, I'll be out of my element, but I'm willing to learn in conjunction with other's work or mentorship.


--
all the best,

Lee Mueller
ISA Certified Arborist MI-4148A
Registered Forester #46043

 

 



On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 10:13 PM, Lee <[hidden email]> wrote:

Looks like the process has been started to get us a mailing list on osgeo, which is where all the QGIS mailing lists are housed.

Based on the above opinions, It likely makes sense to use github to host the code.

I'm going to compile some thoughts over the next few days and begin the discussion on where we need to start in earnest.

Thanks gents.



--
all the best,

Lee Mueller
ISA Certified Arborist MI-4148A
Registered Forester #46043

 

 



On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 10:08 PM, Jeff Hamann <[hidden email]> wrote:

I second that. 

 

If we're making a plug-in, I would piggyback on whatever QGis does. 

 

Respectfully,

Jeff.

 

 

Jeff Hamann, PhD
PO Box 1421
Corvallis, Oregon 97339-1421

230 SW 3rd Street Suite #310

Corvallis, Oregon 97333

<a href="tel:541-602-5438" target="_blank">541-602-5438 (c)

<a href="tel:541-754-2457" target="_blank">541-754-2457 (h)

jeff.hamann[at]forestinformatics[dot]com

jeff.d.hamann[at]gmail[dot]com

http://www.forestinformatics.com

 

To ensure that your email is processed, include a subject entry in your email.

 

 

 

 

On Jul 17, 2012, at 6:28 AM, [hidden email] wrote:



If possible, align with QGis development and communication set up?

Magnus

 

 

 



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Re: [ForestryTools] Fwd: Re: Sv: Re: QGIS Forestry Plugin

Lee-3
Thanks Magnus. Let me make sure I understand correctly.

What would be ideal for you is that "stands" or "tracts" in a vector file would link to a table with past management or work done on that tract or stand. So you could see the history of management within that stand or tract. It would also link to the measurements or data collected for that stand or tract. Essentially your inventory data. Correct? Do you want that data raw, or aggregated in some displayable format (tables, charts, etc)?


I'm hoping this weekend to put together a "plan" of what we want included at the base level. I'd likely re-organize the wiki with "desired features" and "wishlist" as two different categories. Hopefully we can then break it down into each of it's separate elements and "projects" to be tackled.

Again, this is meant to be collaborative, so if I start getting way off base, slap me back into shape. We can also put together a few different "plans" and vote on what we want to tackle at the base level.

--
all the best,
Lee Mueller
ISA Certified Arborist MI-4148A
Registered Forester #46043
 
 



On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 5:05 AM, Magnus Homann <[hidden email]> wrote:
Didn't show up the first time?

Magnus Homann <[hidden email]> skrev:
For me, the main use would not be algorithmic calculation of forest standing volume in the future (although very nice to have!), but a place to store what I've measured, what I've done and possibly plans for the future. Important for me is the possibility to visualize change over time.

So, perhaps we should focus on database entry and visualization, and let people add functions working on database later?

Or am I way off here?

Magnus

Lee <[hidden email]> skrev:

I think you raise a valid point Jake. While I think a completely internal inventory plugin has ultimate appeal, perhaps we should start by linking the qgis spatial solutions to existing inventory options. Maybe then the inventory portion would be a later development.

So I'd ask...
Would splitting forestry operations across several programs hamper adoption? Is it feasible to find ways to play nicely with several programs and formats? Which is more useful long run to our industry people? What is the minimum acceptable product to launch and foster continued interest?

On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 12:46 PM, Jake Maier <[hidden email]> wrote:

Great work Lee. Thanks a lot for all your effort.

I’m still not very clear in my head (had triple bypass 2 weeks ago for those who didn’t catch that) so please be patient with me if I totally miss the point.

What caught my eye a bit in Lee’s email is that I have the feeling that you try to duplicate existing inventory computation too much. Most of us may already have our favorite inventory program, and I think that is not necessary to go there.

 

I very much agree that the plugin should distribute the plots on the map, and here I would fall back on Kim Isles a biometrician in Canada who has a very nice and comprehensive database that could be used to very sophistically distribute the number of plots within the stands, depending on value of the individual stands (you may not want the same precision in a swamp as you want in a veneer stand).

I can provide all the formulas for that.

Then I could see that rather than to create volume and stand tables, we may want to import back the calculated date from the specialized inventory program and display distribution values in different colors on the map.

So I hope my brain is not still too confused and I make at least some sense.

Again thank you everybody for this important work. Especially you, Lee, as you seems to take the lead.

Jake

 

From: Lee [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 12:21 PM
To: Jeff Hamann


Cc: [hidden email]; Tyler Mitchell; Noli Sicad; Magnus Homann; Jake Maier; Jeremy Hill Hill; Aaron Weiskittel; Max Uhlenhuth
Subject: Re: Sv: Re: QGIS Forestry Plugin

 

I've added Max Uhlenhuth to our emails based on the interest he provided in the talk:forestry tools page. He's a founder of SilviaTerra who developed the free phone applet plothound among other interesting forest inventory methods.


We can begin the discussion here, and move over to the mailing list once it's up and running.

Noli posed the following:
I think you start discussion details on what you want for this plugin.
You know what you want.

So I'll start the chatter.

Right now, there's a few of us interested in allocating personal resources to developing this plugin. We're involved for a variety of reasons, but I think we all see a need and see it as a tool for engaging the forestry community in utilizing QGIS more effectively. Moreover, there are few effective, approachable, and free/open-source complete inventory and analysis software packages available to the average forester. So, that's the end goal.

We have to start somewhere. I feel it is important to begin with a foundation that is useful enough to create interest or buzz. Hopefully it will become noticed enough to interest others enough to leverage additional resources (manpower, etc). From this standpoint, I think we need the VERY basic functionality of a forest inventory analysis package.

That would be:
- Allocating inventory plots to stands.
- Aggregating information from those plots to calculate stand tables and volume tables.
- Link the generated reports to stands in stand vector file.

  1. Let's say I have a 40 acre parcel. I use aerial photographs to pre-draw 2 stands in a standard vector layer.
  2. I then use the forestry plugin to place 20 plots across the two stands in a new vector file.
  3. I collect basic forest inventory data (Plot #, species, dbh, logs or ht or sticks, etc), bring it back, and place it in an accessible format like .csv.
  4. This should probably then be loaded into a database which links with the stand vector file.
  5. Forestry plugin links the plot #'s in the inventory file, to the plot #'s in the vector file, and assigns stand numbers based on their locations within the stand vector file.
  6. Forestry plugin uses this linkage, to aggregate the plot's information to generate a stand table (trees per acre by species and size) and volume table (volume per acre by species and product) for each stand.

I think this is the basic functionality that would generate a bit more interest in our project. The above is obviously simplified to illustrate a purpose. We can begin getting into a host of questions such as: which cruise method is used? Which formula for  volume calculation? What about custom fields in inventory? How about aggregating volume in a stand, rather than per acre? How about species specific volume calculation methods? These are all valid questions for a complete, robust, useful plugin. Ones we will have to address as we progress. However, for the time being, I think we need something that shows the promise of being useful and comprehensive. We can then go back and add additional features as we begin to develop the framework. I think if we can at least accomplish the above, we're in a great place to begin to show some real promise for further development such as forest estate planning, economic analysis, and field collection.

Does the above seem to be the basic "first release" necessary? Are there elements missing? Extra elements? Does it completely miss the boat? Does it meet your vision for what this needs to be? Does it seem like a good platform to begin work from?

Then...

Where is the best place to start? How do we divvy the work? And how are you willing to help?

Again, I'm not at all familiar with the inner workings of QGIS or python. My past experience has been in C/C++ and moreso PHP. Therefore, I think the first steps to wrap my head around this is to sit down and begin writing some of the python functions necessary for volume calculation and handling the import of an inventory file. As we start to get into database linkages and GIS file handling, I'll be out of my element, but I'm willing to learn in conjunction with other's work or mentorship.


--
all the best,

Lee Mueller
ISA Certified Arborist MI-4148A
Registered Forester #46043

 

 



On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 10:13 PM, Lee <[hidden email]> wrote:

Looks like the process has been started to get us a mailing list on osgeo, which is where all the QGIS mailing lists are housed.

Based on the above opinions, It likely makes sense to use github to host the code.

I'm going to compile some thoughts over the next few days and begin the discussion on where we need to start in earnest.

Thanks gents.



--
all the best,

Lee Mueller
ISA Certified Arborist MI-4148A
Registered Forester #46043

 

 



On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 10:08 PM, Jeff Hamann <[hidden email]> wrote:

I second that. 

 

If we're making a plug-in, I would piggyback on whatever QGis does. 

 

Respectfully,

Jeff.

 

 

Jeff Hamann, PhD
PO Box 1421
Corvallis, Oregon 97339-1421

230 SW 3rd Street Suite #310

Corvallis, Oregon 97333

<a href="tel:541-602-5438" target="_blank">541-602-5438 (c)

<a href="tel:541-754-2457" target="_blank">541-754-2457 (h)

jeff.hamann[at]forestinformatics[dot]com

jeff.d.hamann[at]gmail[dot]com

http://www.forestinformatics.com

 

To ensure that your email is processed, include a subject entry in your email.

 

 

 

 

On Jul 17, 2012, at 6:28 AM, [hidden email] wrote:



If possible, align with QGis development and communication set up?

Magnus

 

 

 



_______________________________________________
Forestrytools mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/forestrytools



_______________________________________________
Forestrytools mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/forestrytools