Final proposal for hosting FOSS4G 2015 in Seoul, Korea

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Final proposal for hosting FOSS4G 2015 in Seoul, Korea

Sanghee Shin
Dear FOSS4G Selection Committee,

On behalf of LOC, it's my great honor and pleasure to submit this final proposal for hosting FOSS4G 2015 in Seoul, Korea.

Please note that some major changes has been made including venue, dates and co-organizer from our first LOI.

I attached final proposals and budget estimation here. However I'd like to give you an executive summary as follows:

1. Venue : Seoul COEX
2. Preferred Dates : 14th Sep to 19th Sep, 2015.
3. Regular registration fee : KRW 500,000(USD 455) including VAT
4. Will organize 'FOSS4G Asia Special Session'
5. Want to introduce 'Half for low-income countries scheme'. For details, see page 24 in the proposal. Need talks with OSGeo board.

We are ready to answer to your questions about our proposal. Let's start the talks.

Thanks and regards,

Sanghee
---
Shin, Sanghee
Gaia3D, Inc. - Helping Earth Sustainable
http://www.gaia3d.com 
Tel : +82-(0)2-3397-3475
Fax : +82-(0)2-3397-3478

_______________________________________________
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FOSS4G_2015_Seoul_Budget_Estimation.ods (64K) Download Attachment
FOSS4G_2015_Seoul_Proposal.pdf (2M) Download Attachment
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Re: Final proposal for hosting FOSS4G 2015 in Seoul, Korea

Bart van den Eijnden (OSGIS)-2
Thanks a lot Sanghee.

Conference committee, you have 2 weeks (up until May 12th) to ask questions according to [1].

The final decision (GO/NO-GO) is due for May 16th. Under normal circumstances I’ll send out a motion on May 14th so you have 2 business days for the vote.

If you want to do a meeting before the final vote that’s okay, but I’ll leave that up to the committee with Frank as the chair to decide.

http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/FOSS4G_2015_Bid_Process

Best regards,
Bart

On 28 Apr 2014, at 19:45, Sanghee Shin <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dear FOSS4G Selection Committee,
>
> On behalf of LOC, it's my great honor and pleasure to submit this final proposal for hosting FOSS4G 2015 in Seoul, Korea.
>
> Please note that some major changes has been made including venue, dates and co-organizer from our first LOI.
>
> I attached final proposals and budget estimation here. However I'd like to give you an executive summary as follows:
>
> 1. Venue : Seoul COEX
> 2. Preferred Dates : 14th Sep to 19th Sep, 2015.
> 3. Regular registration fee : KRW 500,000(USD 455) including VAT
> 4. Will organize 'FOSS4G Asia Special Session'
> 5. Want to introduce 'Half for low-income countries scheme'. For details, see page 24 in the proposal. Need talks with OSGeo board.
>
> We are ready to answer to your questions about our proposal. Let's start the talks.
>
> Thanks and regards,
>
> Sanghee
> ---
> Shin, Sanghee
> Gaia3D, Inc. - Helping Earth Sustainable
> http://www.gaia3d.com 
> Tel : +82-(0)2-3397-3475
> Fax : +82-(0)2-3397-3478
> <FOSS4G_2015_Seoul_Budget_Estimation.ods><FOSS4G_2015_Seoul_Proposal.pdf>_______________________________________________
> Conference_dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev

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Re: Final proposal for hosting FOSS4G 2015 in Seoul, Korea

Dave Patton-2
In reply to this post by Sanghee Shin
On 2014/04/28 10:45, Sanghee Shin wrote:

> Dear FOSS4G Selection Committee,
>
> On behalf of LOC, it's my great honor and pleasure to submit this
> final proposal for hosting FOSS4G 2015 in Seoul, Korea.
>
> Please note that some major changes has been made including venue,
> dates and co-organizer from our first LOI.
>
> I attached final proposals and budget estimation here. However I'd
> like to give you an executive summary as follows:
>
> 1. Venue : Seoul COEX 2. Preferred Dates : 14th Sep to 19th Sep,
> 2015. 3. Regular registration fee : KRW 500,000(USD 455) including
> VAT 4. Will organize 'FOSS4G Asia Special Session' 5. Want to
> introduce 'Half for low-income countries scheme'. For details, see
> page 24 in the proposal. Need talks with OSGeo board.
>
> We are ready to answer to your questions about our proposal. Let's
> start the talks.

Hello Sanghee.

First, I am not on the committee, so my input is "unofficial".

I scanned through the proposal, and for me it raised two questions:
A)
Venue and Hotels doesn't include any information about
lower-cost accommodation options, such as 'budget hotels'
or hostels.
B)
There are quite a few names listed as being on the LOC,
with mention of adding more. Lots of people to help
with the work of organizing and running FOSS4G is good,
but I wonder if such a potentially large LOC could be
a bit awkward to manage?

--
Dave Patton
Victoria, B.C.

Degree Confluence Project:
Canadian Coordinator
Technical Coordinator
http://www.confluence.org/

Personal website:
http://members.shaw.ca/davepatton/
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Re: Final proposal for hosting FOSS4G 2015 in Seoul, Korea

Bart van den Eijnden (OSGIS)-2
In reply to this post by Bart van den Eijnden (OSGIS)-2
Conference committee,

this is a reminder that we have approximately one week left for the Q&A on the final proposal.

Please take time to study their proposal and to ask questions.

TIA.

Best regards,
Bart

On 28 Apr 2014, at 12:52, Bart van den Eijnden <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thanks a lot Sanghee.
>
> Conference committee, you have 2 weeks (up until May 12th) to ask questions according to [1].
>
> The final decision (GO/NO-GO) is due for May 16th. Under normal circumstances I’ll send out a motion on May 14th so you have 2 business days for the vote.
>
> If you want to do a meeting before the final vote that’s okay, but I’ll leave that up to the committee with Frank as the chair to decide.
>
> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/FOSS4G_2015_Bid_Process
>
> Best regards,
> Bart
>
> On 28 Apr 2014, at 19:45, Sanghee Shin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Dear FOSS4G Selection Committee,
>>
>> On behalf of LOC, it's my great honor and pleasure to submit this final proposal for hosting FOSS4G 2015 in Seoul, Korea.
>>
>> Please note that some major changes has been made including venue, dates and co-organizer from our first LOI.
>>
>> I attached final proposals and budget estimation here. However I'd like to give you an executive summary as follows:
>>
>> 1. Venue : Seoul COEX
>> 2. Preferred Dates : 14th Sep to 19th Sep, 2015.
>> 3. Regular registration fee : KRW 500,000(USD 455) including VAT
>> 4. Will organize 'FOSS4G Asia Special Session'
>> 5. Want to introduce 'Half for low-income countries scheme'. For details, see page 24 in the proposal. Need talks with OSGeo board.
>>
>> We are ready to answer to your questions about our proposal. Let's start the talks.
>>
>> Thanks and regards,
>>
>> Sanghee
>> ---
>> Shin, Sanghee
>> Gaia3D, Inc. - Helping Earth Sustainable
>> http://www.gaia3d.com 
>> Tel : +82-(0)2-3397-3475
>> Fax : +82-(0)2-3397-3478
>> <FOSS4G_2015_Seoul_Budget_Estimation.ods><FOSS4G_2015_Seoul_Proposal.pdf>_______________________________________________
>> Conference_dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
>

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Re: Final proposal for hosting FOSS4G 2015 in Seoul, Korea

Sanghee Shin
In reply to this post by Dave Patton-2
Hi Dave,

Thank you for your asking. Here are answers to your questions.

1. Regarding budge hotels and hostels.

- You can get these information from Seoul Metropolitan Government : http://www.visitseoul.net/en/subindex.do?_method=sleep2&m=0003001026001&p=02 and Visit Korea : http://english.visitkorea.or.kr/enu/AC/AC_EN_4_9.jsp?out_service=&areaCode=1#selectbox 

The venue, COEX, is located at the Gangnam district and prices in Gangnam area is very high. So booking hotel outside of Gangnam district will be a good option, if budge is the big problem. Subway system in Seoul is so nice that you can easily get to COEX by metro.

We'll put budget hotel booking info to FOSS4G 2015 Seoul webpage, if we would host FOSS4G 2015 in Seoul.

2. Regarding managing LOC.

- As we mentioned in our final proposal, KSIS(Korea Spatial Information Society) decided to join LOC as institutional member in the middle of April. So anyway we need to re-organize the LOC to reflect this changes. We didn't have enough time to discuss this re-organization with KSIS. So, we just put the earlier version there in final proposal. We also share the same concern you pointed inside LOC.

Our initial idea is that we need to re-organize LOC into several committee, such as program committee, marketing committee, and so on, based on real tasks. And then assign LOC members and volunteers to committee they want to work for.

Hope my answers are helpful to you. And any other your comments, ideas and opinions will really be appreciated.

Thanks!

With regards,

Sanghee
---
Shin, Sanghee
Gaia3D, Inc. - Helping Earth Sustainable
http://www.gaia3d.com 
Tel : +82-(0)2-3397-3475
Fax : +82-(0)2-3397-3478

2014. 5. 3., 오후 8:03, Dave Patton <[hidden email]> 작성:

> On 2014/04/28 10:45, Sanghee Shin wrote:
>> Dear FOSS4G Selection Committee,
>>
>> On behalf of LOC, it's my great honor and pleasure to submit this
>> final proposal for hosting FOSS4G 2015 in Seoul, Korea.
>>
>> Please note that some major changes has been made including venue,
>> dates and co-organizer from our first LOI.
>>
>> I attached final proposals and budget estimation here. However I'd
>> like to give you an executive summary as follows:
>>
>> 1. Venue : Seoul COEX 2. Preferred Dates : 14th Sep to 19th Sep,
>> 2015. 3. Regular registration fee : KRW 500,000(USD 455) including
>> VAT 4. Will organize 'FOSS4G Asia Special Session' 5. Want to
>> introduce 'Half for low-income countries scheme'. For details, see
>> page 24 in the proposal. Need talks with OSGeo board.
>>
>> We are ready to answer to your questions about our proposal. Let's
>> start the talks.
>
> Hello Sanghee.
>
> First, I am not on the committee, so my input is "unofficial".
>
> I scanned through the proposal, and for me it raised two questions:
> A)
> Venue and Hotels doesn't include any information about
> lower-cost accommodation options, such as 'budget hotels'
> or hostels.
> B)
> There are quite a few names listed as being on the LOC,
> with mention of adding more. Lots of people to help
> with the work of organizing and running FOSS4G is good,
> but I wonder if such a potentially large LOC could be
> a bit awkward to manage?
>
> --
> Dave Patton
> Victoria, B.C.
>
> Degree Confluence Project:
> Canadian Coordinator
> Technical Coordinator
> http://www.confluence.org/
>
> Personal website:
> http://members.shaw.ca/davepatton/
> _______________________________________________
> Conference_dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev

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Re: Final proposal for hosting FOSS4G 2015 in Seoul, Korea

stevenfeldman
In reply to this post by Sanghee Shin
Sanghee

Thanks for your proposal.

Others have raised questions about the venue, organisation etc. I am going to focus on the budget, boring stuff for many but a topic that I understand well based on our experience in 2013.

  1. Your three scenarios include a 10% allowance for non paying attendees. Who are these non payers?
  2. You mention offering a 50% discount for delegates from low income countries but this discount does not appear in your figures. Have you modelled the likely number and cost.
  3. Do you intend to offer a special rate for students and/or volunteers?
  4. Your sponsorship forecast looks very high to me based on our experience in 2013. A 20% reduction in sponsorship turns your small surplus into a loss.
  5. The guideline ‘full conference’ price is $600. Can you explain why you have chosen an ‘early bird’ of $364 and a regular of $455?
  6. Will you be seeking any financial underwriting or guarantee from OSGeo?

Best regards
______
Steven


On 28 Apr 2014, at 18:45, Sanghee Shin <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear FOSS4G Selection Committee,

On behalf of LOC, it's my great honor and pleasure to submit this final proposal for hosting FOSS4G 2015 in Seoul, Korea.

Please note that some major changes has been made including venue, dates and co-organizer from our first LOI.

I attached final proposals and budget estimation here. However I'd like to give you an executive summary as follows:

1. Venue : Seoul COEX
2. Preferred Dates : 14th Sep to 19th Sep, 2015.
3. Regular registration fee : KRW 500,000(USD 455) including VAT
4. Will organize 'FOSS4G Asia Special Session'
5. Want to introduce 'Half for low-income countries scheme'. For details, see page 24 in the proposal. Need talks with OSGeo board.

We are ready to answer to your questions about our proposal. Let's start the talks.

Thanks and regards,

Sanghee
---
Shin, Sanghee
Gaia3D, Inc. - Helping Earth Sustainable
http://www.gaia3d.com
Tel : +82-(0)2-3397-3475
Fax : +82-(0)2-3397-3478
<FOSS4G_2015_Seoul_Budget_Estimation.ods><FOSS4G_2015_Seoul_Proposal.pdf>_______________________________________________
Conference_dev mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev


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Re: Final proposal for hosting FOSS4G 2015 in Seoul, Korea

jmckenna
Administrator
In reply to this post by Sanghee Shin
Hello Sanghee and team,

Thank you for submitting this proposal.  I have a few questions, and I
also have comments (mostly for the OSGeo Conference Committee to read),
as I only a few months ago attended your FOSS4G-KR event in Seoul.

- I agree that holding the global FOSS4G in Seoul would explode FOSS4G
in the whole Asia region.  That is exactly what happened for S.Africa
and Sydney after their events.  I think the proposed 'FOSS4G Asia
Special Session' is very important for this reason.

- the COEX venue is indeed world-class, and having attended the "Smart
Geo Expo" with you a few months ago, I know how big of an event the
Smart Geo Expo is (maybe you can outline some stats of how large that
event was in 2014, for the OSGeo Conference Committee to understand.
e.g. how many exhibitors).  I think having FOSS4G around the same time
as Smart Geo is very smart.

- I am glad to read that you are already planning on hiring a
Professional Conference Organizer.

- having given a workshop at the proposed TOZ venue, I can verify that
it is indeed a top-notch training facility.  However I wonder how many
concurrent workshops that TOZ can handle, as in the past we have had
something like 9 concurrent workshop rooms running (I just did not see
all of the venue, maybe it has additional floors or training rooms?).
But indeed the facility for workshops is world-class.

- Also, I don't see the workshops in your proposed timeline, are they
likely planned for the Monday and Tuesday before?  (14th & 15th)

- Great to see your focus on the social events, as they are very
important for any FOSS4G event.  I wonder if an unofficial 'ice-breaker'
could be planned for the Tuesday night (the night before the talks
begins, as most will be arriving that night).  It could just be a pub to
meet at.

- I am happy to see that a Korean BBQ is planned, as this is a wonderful
part of your culture.

- One warning I received from past FOSS4G attendees, is that FOSS4G
attendees generally do not want to be forced to 'buy a ticket' to attend
each social event each night.  Generally the Gala event is acceptable,
but beyond that FOSS4G attendees want freedom to just have a
beer/network, without having to buy a ticket in advance.

- I am glad to see the code sprint planned for the Saturday after, at TOZ.

- Having stayed at the Hotel Ibis, I can verify what a great location it
is, a short walk to the COEX venue; in fact I foresee this hotel as
being 'the' hotel for the tribe

- In general I can verify that the local subway system is efficient and
safe.

- Great to see several OSGeo Charter members as part of your proposal
LOC.  I'd also like to see some members of the Japan chapter on your
LOC, such as Venka and Mori-san; their experience and network is very
important for your event.

- In terms of technical infrastructure for the COEX event, I know it
sounds silly to ask, but as FOSS4G attendees are so wifi/bandwidth
demanding, can you outline some infrastructure details for COEX?  I
know, your area is one of the most connected and stable areas in the
world, but, we must always plan for this, for any FOSS4G event.  Would
we leverage the existing COEX network, or setup a custom instance for
our attendees?

Again thanks for a wonderful proposal.  If all goes well, I hope to be
having a soju with you again there soon.

-jeff
OSGeo President






On 2014-04-28, 2:45 PM, Sanghee Shin wrote:

> Dear FOSS4G Selection Committee,
>
> On behalf of LOC, it's my great honor and pleasure to submit this final proposal for hosting FOSS4G 2015 in Seoul, Korea.
>
> Please note that some major changes has been made including venue, dates and co-organizer from our first LOI.
>
> I attached final proposals and budget estimation here. However I'd like to give you an executive summary as follows:
>
> 1. Venue : Seoul COEX
> 2. Preferred Dates : 14th Sep to 19th Sep, 2015.
> 3. Regular registration fee : KRW 500,000(USD 455) including VAT
> 4. Will organize 'FOSS4G Asia Special Session'
> 5. Want to introduce 'Half for low-income countries scheme'. For details, see page 24 in the proposal. Need talks with OSGeo board.
>
> We are ready to answer to your questions about our proposal. Let's start the talks.
>
> Thanks and regards,
>
> Sanghee
> ---
> Shin, Sanghee
> Gaia3D, Inc. - Helping Earth Sustainable
> http://www.gaia3d.com 
> Tel : +82-(0)2-3397-3475
> Fax : +82-(0)2-3397-3478
>
>
>
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Re: Final proposal for hosting FOSS4G 2015 in Seoul, Korea

Sanghee Shin
In reply to this post by stevenfeldman
Dear Steven, 

Thank you for your inquiries. 

Here are our answers to your inquiries. 

1.Non payers are mainly from sponsors and supporters. We'll give them free passes as described in our budget estimation. And invited speakers also will be counted as non-payers. And as far as I know, workshop trainer is free. Isn't it? Anyway to be conservative, we put 10% allowance. 

2. Actually it's very hard to estimate that, since this will be the first time FOSS4G employing this policy. We assumed that number of delegates from low income countries will be less than 20. If you look over the low and low-middle countries from here http://data.worldbank.org/about/country-classifications/country-and-lending-groups#Low_income , you may find that not so many delegates has attended FOSS4G so far. However I hope this 'half for low-income countries' be a tradition of FOSS4G. I believe that it can be a symbolic policy of disseminating FOSS4G spirits all around the world. 

3. Yep. We have a plan to offer discounted rate to students, but not to volunteers or LOC members. 

4, 5. Yep. We aimed high. We try to lower down the registration fee as low as possible to remove the barrier to FOSS4G 2015. Personally I think that recent years' FOSS4G registration fee is somewhat high that it excluded the attending from many countries. However I should admit that if we fail to achieve the sponsorship target, we may need to back to original recommended fee, that is USD 600. 

6. We don't think we need any underwriting or guarantee from OSGeo at the moment. 

Hope my answers increase your understanding on our proposal. 

Thanks and regards, 

Sanghee
---
Shin, Sanghee
Gaia3D, Inc. - Helping Earth Sustainable 
http://www.gaia3d.com 
Tel : +82-(0)2-3397-3475
Fax : +82-(0)2-3397-3478

2014. 5. 4., 오후 10:57, Steven Feldman <[hidden email]> 작성:

Sanghee

Thanks for your proposal.

Others have raised questions about the venue, organisation etc. I am going to focus on the budget, boring stuff for many but a topic that I understand well based on our experience in 2013.

  1. Your three scenarios include a 10% allowance for non paying attendees. Who are these non payers?
  2. You mention offering a 50% discount for delegates from low income countries but this discount does not appear in your figures. Have you modelled the likely number and cost.
  3. Do you intend to offer a special rate for students and/or volunteers?
  4. Your sponsorship forecast looks very high to me based on our experience in 2013. A 20% reduction in sponsorship turns your small surplus into a loss.
  5. The guideline ‘full conference’ price is $600. Can you explain why you have chosen an ‘early bird’ of $364 and a regular of $455?
  6. Will you be seeking any financial underwriting or guarantee from OSGeo?

Best regards
______
Steven


On 28 Apr 2014, at 18:45, Sanghee Shin <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear FOSS4G Selection Committee,

On behalf of LOC, it's my great honor and pleasure to submit this final proposal for hosting FOSS4G 2015 in Seoul, Korea.

Please note that some major changes has been made including venue, dates and co-organizer from our first LOI.

I attached final proposals and budget estimation here. However I'd like to give you an executive summary as follows:

1. Venue : Seoul COEX
2. Preferred Dates : 14th Sep to 19th Sep, 2015.
3. Regular registration fee : KRW 500,000(USD 455) including VAT
4. Will organize 'FOSS4G Asia Special Session'
5. Want to introduce 'Half for low-income countries scheme'. For details, see page 24 in the proposal. Need talks with OSGeo board.

We are ready to answer to your questions about our proposal. Let's start the talks.

Thanks and regards,

Sanghee
---
Shin, Sanghee
Gaia3D, Inc. - Helping Earth Sustainable
http://www.gaia3d.com
Tel : +82-(0)2-3397-3475
Fax : +82-(0)2-3397-3478
<FOSS4G_2015_Seoul_Budget_Estimation.ods><FOSS4G_2015_Seoul_Proposal.pdf>_______________________________________________
Conference_dev mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev



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Re: Final proposal for hosting FOSS4G 2015 in Seoul, Korea

Sanghee Shin
In reply to this post by jmckenna
Hello Jeff,

Thank you for your own detailed explanation about venue and circumstances that other committee members might not know.

1. Smart Geo Expo : More than 80 companies & institutions including Samsung Electronics, Google, Sokkia, Trimble, Topcon, ESRI Korea, Leica, exhibited their products there in Smart Geo Expo. And more than 10,000 people visited exhibition booth and attended several seminars & conferences. You can get more information on Smart Geo Expo here : http://smartgeoexpo.kr/eng/main

2. Regarding workshops : We have a plan to have a workshop on Monday and Tuesday as usually, those are 14th, 15th Sep 2015. TOZ is franchised professional meeting facility which is located at several hot places all around Seoul. We plan to have a workshop at another bigger TOZ in Gangnam district. We estimate that 4 concurrent rooms would be fine for workshop. Last year there was 5 concurrent workshops in Nottingham. Anyway if workshop would get much popularity than we expected, we also can book COEX room.

3. Ice-breaking party & Gala dinner : Your proposal is worth to listen to. We'll discuss the options you proposed.

4. LOC members: Yep. We surely include other country's OSGeo guys to LOC not only from Japan but also from other Asia countries. And for the academic track, we also need to contact past members.

5. Wireless Internet : We already put the cost there in the budget estimation for the stable & fast wireless internet access, since complimentary internet access could not guarantee that.

I also hope we could enjoy Soju with you & all other FOSS4G guys in Seoul next year.

With regards,

Sanghee
---
Shin, Sanghee
Gaia3D, Inc. - Helping Earth Sustainable
http://www.gaia3d.com 
Tel : +82-(0)2-3397-3475
Fax : +82-(0)2-3397-3478

2014. 5. 5., 오후 3:56, Jeff McKenna <[hidden email]> 작성:

> Hello Sanghee and team,
>
> Thank you for submitting this proposal.  I have a few questions, and I
> also have comments (mostly for the OSGeo Conference Committee to read),
> as I only a few months ago attended your FOSS4G-KR event in Seoul.
>
> - I agree that holding the global FOSS4G in Seoul would explode FOSS4G
> in the whole Asia region.  That is exactly what happened for S.Africa
> and Sydney after their events.  I think the proposed 'FOSS4G Asia
> Special Session' is very important for this reason.
>
> - the COEX venue is indeed world-class, and having attended the "Smart
> Geo Expo" with you a few months ago, I know how big of an event the
> Smart Geo Expo is (maybe you can outline some stats of how large that
> event was in 2014, for the OSGeo Conference Committee to understand.
> e.g. how many exhibitors).  I think having FOSS4G around the same time
> as Smart Geo is very smart.
>
> - I am glad to read that you are already planning on hiring a
> Professional Conference Organizer.
>
> - having given a workshop at the proposed TOZ venue, I can verify that
> it is indeed a top-notch training facility.  However I wonder how many
> concurrent workshops that TOZ can handle, as in the past we have had
> something like 9 concurrent workshop rooms running (I just did not see
> all of the venue, maybe it has additional floors or training rooms?).
> But indeed the facility for workshops is world-class.
>
> - Also, I don't see the workshops in your proposed timeline, are they
> likely planned for the Monday and Tuesday before?  (14th & 15th)
>
> - Great to see your focus on the social events, as they are very
> important for any FOSS4G event.  I wonder if an unofficial 'ice-breaker'
> could be planned for the Tuesday night (the night before the talks
> begins, as most will be arriving that night).  It could just be a pub to
> meet at.
>
> - I am happy to see that a Korean BBQ is planned, as this is a wonderful
> part of your culture.
>
> - One warning I received from past FOSS4G attendees, is that FOSS4G
> attendees generally do not want to be forced to 'buy a ticket' to attend
> each social event each night.  Generally the Gala event is acceptable,
> but beyond that FOSS4G attendees want freedom to just have a
> beer/network, without having to buy a ticket in advance.
>
> - I am glad to see the code sprint planned for the Saturday after, at TOZ.
>
> - Having stayed at the Hotel Ibis, I can verify what a great location it
> is, a short walk to the COEX venue; in fact I foresee this hotel as
> being 'the' hotel for the tribe
>
> - In general I can verify that the local subway system is efficient and
> safe.
>
> - Great to see several OSGeo Charter members as part of your proposal
> LOC.  I'd also like to see some members of the Japan chapter on your
> LOC, such as Venka and Mori-san; their experience and network is very
> important for your event.
>
> - In terms of technical infrastructure for the COEX event, I know it
> sounds silly to ask, but as FOSS4G attendees are so wifi/bandwidth
> demanding, can you outline some infrastructure details for COEX?  I
> know, your area is one of the most connected and stable areas in the
> world, but, we must always plan for this, for any FOSS4G event.  Would
> we leverage the existing COEX network, or setup a custom instance for
> our attendees?
>
> Again thanks for a wonderful proposal.  If all goes well, I hope to be
> having a soju with you again there soon.
>
> -jeff
> OSGeo President
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2014-04-28, 2:45 PM, Sanghee Shin wrote:
>> Dear FOSS4G Selection Committee,
>>
>> On behalf of LOC, it's my great honor and pleasure to submit this final proposal for hosting FOSS4G 2015 in Seoul, Korea.
>>
>> Please note that some major changes has been made including venue, dates and co-organizer from our first LOI.
>>
>> I attached final proposals and budget estimation here. However I'd like to give you an executive summary as follows:
>>
>> 1. Venue : Seoul COEX
>> 2. Preferred Dates : 14th Sep to 19th Sep, 2015.
>> 3. Regular registration fee : KRW 500,000(USD 455) including VAT
>> 4. Will organize 'FOSS4G Asia Special Session'
>> 5. Want to introduce 'Half for low-income countries scheme'. For details, see page 24 in the proposal. Need talks with OSGeo board.
>>
>> We are ready to answer to your questions about our proposal. Let's start the talks.
>>
>> Thanks and regards,
>>
>> Sanghee
>> ---
>> Shin, Sanghee
>> Gaia3D, Inc. - Helping Earth Sustainable
>> http://www.gaia3d.com 
>> Tel : +82-(0)2-3397-3475
>> Fax : +82-(0)2-3397-3478
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Conference_dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev

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Re: Final proposal for hosting FOSS4G 2015 in Seoul, Korea

Suchith Anand
In reply to this post by jmckenna
Hi all,

Thanks Sanghee for submitting this proposal. I am sure with the professionalism and expertise of Korea team, they will deliver not only an excellent FOSS4G 2015 conference but more importanly help build momentum for FOSS4G in Asia and beyond.

I had the privilege of meeting Sanghee and other Korean colleagues earlier this week at the Geospatial World Forum 2014 in Geneva and they had an impressive Korean Pavillion there strongly featuring Open Source GIS implementations and examples in Korea.  Well done and thanks for this.

Best wishes,

Suchith


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jeff McKenna
Sent: 05 May 2014 14:57
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Conf] Final proposal for hosting FOSS4G 2015 in Seoul, Korea

Hello Sanghee and team,

Thank you for submitting this proposal.  I have a few questions, and I also have comments (mostly for the OSGeo Conference Committee to read), as I only a few months ago attended your FOSS4G-KR event in Seoul.

- I agree that holding the global FOSS4G in Seoul would explode FOSS4G in the whole Asia region.  That is exactly what happened for S.Africa and Sydney after their events.  I think the proposed 'FOSS4G Asia Special Session' is very important for this reason.

- the COEX venue is indeed world-class, and having attended the "Smart Geo Expo" with you a few months ago, I know how big of an event the Smart Geo Expo is (maybe you can outline some stats of how large that event was in 2014, for the OSGeo Conference Committee to understand.
e.g. how many exhibitors).  I think having FOSS4G around the same time as Smart Geo is very smart.

- I am glad to read that you are already planning on hiring a Professional Conference Organizer.

- having given a workshop at the proposed TOZ venue, I can verify that it is indeed a top-notch training facility.  However I wonder how many concurrent workshops that TOZ can handle, as in the past we have had something like 9 concurrent workshop rooms running (I just did not see all of the venue, maybe it has additional floors or training rooms?).
But indeed the facility for workshops is world-class.

- Also, I don't see the workshops in your proposed timeline, are they likely planned for the Monday and Tuesday before?  (14th & 15th)

- Great to see your focus on the social events, as they are very important for any FOSS4G event.  I wonder if an unofficial 'ice-breaker'
could be planned for the Tuesday night (the night before the talks begins, as most will be arriving that night).  It could just be a pub to meet at.

- I am happy to see that a Korean BBQ is planned, as this is a wonderful part of your culture.

- One warning I received from past FOSS4G attendees, is that FOSS4G attendees generally do not want to be forced to 'buy a ticket' to attend each social event each night.  Generally the Gala event is acceptable, but beyond that FOSS4G attendees want freedom to just have a beer/network, without having to buy a ticket in advance.

- I am glad to see the code sprint planned for the Saturday after, at TOZ.

- Having stayed at the Hotel Ibis, I can verify what a great location it is, a short walk to the COEX venue; in fact I foresee this hotel as being 'the' hotel for the tribe

- In general I can verify that the local subway system is efficient and safe.

- Great to see several OSGeo Charter members as part of your proposal LOC.  I'd also like to see some members of the Japan chapter on your LOC, such as Venka and Mori-san; their experience and network is very important for your event.

- In terms of technical infrastructure for the COEX event, I know it sounds silly to ask, but as FOSS4G attendees are so wifi/bandwidth demanding, can you outline some infrastructure details for COEX?  I know, your area is one of the most connected and stable areas in the world, but, we must always plan for this, for any FOSS4G event.  Would we leverage the existing COEX network, or setup a custom instance for our attendees?

Again thanks for a wonderful proposal.  If all goes well, I hope to be having a soju with you again there soon.

-jeff
OSGeo President






On 2014-04-28, 2:45 PM, Sanghee Shin wrote:

> Dear FOSS4G Selection Committee,
>
> On behalf of LOC, it's my great honor and pleasure to submit this final proposal for hosting FOSS4G 2015 in Seoul, Korea.
>
> Please note that some major changes has been made including venue, dates and co-organizer from our first LOI.
>
> I attached final proposals and budget estimation here. However I'd like to give you an executive summary as follows:
>
> 1. Venue : Seoul COEX
> 2. Preferred Dates : 14th Sep to 19th Sep, 2015.
> 3. Regular registration fee : KRW 500,000(USD 455) including VAT 4.
> Will organize 'FOSS4G Asia Special Session'
> 5. Want to introduce 'Half for low-income countries scheme'. For details, see page 24 in the proposal. Need talks with OSGeo board.
>
> We are ready to answer to your questions about our proposal. Let's start the talks.
>
> Thanks and regards,
>
> Sanghee
> ---
> Shin, Sanghee
> Gaia3D, Inc. - Helping Earth Sustainable http://www.gaia3d.com Tel :
> +82-(0)2-3397-3475 Fax : +82-(0)2-3397-3478
>
>
>
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Re: Final proposal for hosting FOSS4G 2015 in Seoul, Korea

Cameron Shorter
In reply to this post by Sanghee Shin
Hi Sanghee,
Thank you for your proposal, and I'm delighted to see Korea submitting a proposal for FOSS4G. There are a few areas that makes me feel positive about a response from Korea:

1. I have been impressed with you Sanghee personally, with regards to your commitment and initiative. Chairing a FOSS4G is a significant amount of work, and requires some hard decisions. You will need to be strong enough to say "NO" to a lot of people who will have valid reasons as to why they should have a discount or something for free.

2. Korea has run regional foss4g events before, and that will provide valuable experience and contacts.

However, having said that, I'm concerned about assumptions of attendee profile, which will have an impact on the budget.

In particular, In your organisor minds, I suggest that you should consider "FOSS4G Korea" to be a Regional Conference, which has the added prestige of holding the OSGeo board meeting, and attracts a handful of international attendees, rather than an International conference which attracts lots of local attendees.

We learned this lesson the hard way at FOSS4G - Sydney, where we discovered that less than half our attendees were international. In particular, the majority of attendees we expected to come from Europe didn't turn up. Anecdotally, we heard that Europeans were saving their money for FOSS4G Barcelona the following year. And that was before the successful FOSS4G-NA and FOSS4G-Europe to compete with.

Also, be very mindful of the lessons learned from FOSS4G Beijing [1], which was cancelled.

I suggest that your conservative break even version of the budget should assume that you will only get a few attendees from Europe / North America - maybe 30 to 50.  I'd assume that 80% to 90% of attendees come from Asia, and as such, you should make sure that these attendees can cover the costs of the conference.
I am very nervous of the "Half price for low income countries" clause, as I suspect that these half price tickets would constitute the majority of attendees. If you do indeed want to keep the price down, I suggest considering:
a. Cut costs (use a cheap venue such as a University)
b. Profile where you expect attendees to come from, and make sure the local Asian attendees (say 80%) will cover conference costs.
c. Make sure any half price clauses, if included, will result in a profit if 80% of attendees are paying half price.

Note also, there will be a perception from rich countries that they are paying to subsidize local attendees, as well as paying international air fairs, which will leave a bad taste, and may result in even less international attendance.

I'm not sure how many people an Asian conference would attract, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were 300 instead of 450. I'd suggest considering a revised budget which considers a very conservative number of attendees.

[1] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/FOSS4G_2012_Lessons_Learned

On 29/04/2014 3:45 am, Sanghee Shin wrote:
Dear FOSS4G Selection Committee, 

On behalf of LOC, it's my great honor and pleasure to submit this final proposal for hosting FOSS4G 2015 in Seoul, Korea. 

Please note that some major changes has been made including venue, dates and co-organizer from our first LOI. 

I attached final proposals and budget estimation here. However I'd like to give you an executive summary as follows:

1. Venue : Seoul COEX
2. Preferred Dates : 14th Sep to 19th Sep, 2015.
3. Regular registration fee : KRW 500,000(USD 455) including VAT
4. Will organize 'FOSS4G Asia Special Session'
5. Want to introduce 'Half for low-income countries scheme'. For details, see page 24 in the proposal. Need talks with OSGeo board. 

We are ready to answer to your questions about our proposal. Let's start the talks. 

Thanks and regards, 

Sanghee
---
Shin, Sanghee
Gaia3D, Inc. - Helping Earth Sustainable 
http://www.gaia3d.com 
Tel : +82-(0)2-3397-3475
Fax : +82-(0)2-3397-3478


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Re: Final proposal for hosting FOSS4G 2015 in Seoul, Korea

jmckenna
Administrator
On 2014-05-09, 6:34 PM, Cameron Shorter wrote:
>
> Also, be very mindful of the lessons learned from FOSS4G Beijing [1],
> which was cancelled.
>

It is the responsibility of every OSGeo Conference Committee member, and
OSGeo Board member, to keep this lesson learned in mind.  Make no
mistake, the hosting decision is very important, I've heard a lot of
people say what does the Conf Committee do etc through the years, well,
we all learned in 2012.  There were of course warning signs...anyway but
yes please every Conference Committee and Board member must learn from
this.  I personally do not agree with throwing this message at the
Korean local committee, who are working so hard to be open and
passionate - it is on us to be mindful.

-jeff



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Re: Final proposal for hosting FOSS4G 2015 in Seoul, Korea

stevenfeldman
Jeff, I don’t think anyone doubts the commitment and effort of the Korean team. There will be different views as to why Beijing failed in 2012, surely we all agree that both the Conference Committee and potential event organisers should learn from that experience?

Cameron raised a reasonable concern about the likely levels of attendance at a FOSS4G in Seoul by those from outside of the region. He suggested that the team consider a plan that would be viable with a primarily local attendance. I have also asked questions about the financial viability of the model that has been submitted. These are concerns that need to be discussed. 

Running a FOSS4G involves taking on some significant financial risks - if delegate numbers and/or sponsorship income do not reach target levels, the losses could be substantial. We may all agree that we would like to grow the use of OSGeo in South East Asia but what level of financial risk are we willing to accept? Are the organising team prepared to be the financially responsible body, do they have the resources to take a hit?

I want to see a successful FOSS4G 15 in Korea, even if that is on a smaller scale than the European and North American events. A plan that ensures that the event will be successful with say 350 primarily regional delegates and which can flex to accommodate a larger and more international attendance will minimise risk. 
______
Steven


On 10 May 2014, at 14:28, Jeff McKenna <[hidden email]> wrote:

There were of course warning signs...anyway but
yes please every Conference Committee and Board member must learn from
this.  I personally do not agree with throwing this message at the
Korean local committee, who are working so hard to be open and
passionate - it is on us to be mindful.


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Re: Final proposal for hosting FOSS4G 2015 in Seoul, Korea

Paul Ramsey
Using the existing FOSS4G.KR attendance as a baseline, conservatively
add in attendance from other Asian countries and Europe/NA, using the
information from past FOSS4G conferences. I'd say the non-Australian
2009 attendance could serve as a worst-case scenario for what might be
expected in terms of non-Korean attendance in 2015.

P.

On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Steven Feldman <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Jeff, I don’t think anyone doubts the commitment and effort of the Korean
> team. There will be different views as to why Beijing failed in 2012, surely
> we all agree that both the Conference Committee and potential event
> organisers should learn from that experience?
>
> Cameron raised a reasonable concern about the likely levels of attendance at
> a FOSS4G in Seoul by those from outside of the region. He suggested that the
> team consider a plan that would be viable with a primarily local attendance.
> I have also asked questions about the financial viability of the model that
> has been submitted. These are concerns that need to be discussed.
>
> Running a FOSS4G involves taking on some significant financial risks - if
> delegate numbers and/or sponsorship income do not reach target levels, the
> losses could be substantial. We may all agree that we would like to grow the
> use of OSGeo in South East Asia but what level of financial risk are we
> willing to accept? Are the organising team prepared to be the financially
> responsible body, do they have the resources to take a hit?
>
> I want to see a successful FOSS4G 15 in Korea, even if that is on a smaller
> scale than the European and North American events. A plan that ensures that
> the event will be successful with say 350 primarily regional delegates and
> which can flex to accommodate a larger and more international attendance
> will minimise risk.
> ______
> Steven
>
>
> On 10 May 2014, at 14:28, Jeff McKenna <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> There were of course warning signs...anyway but
> yes please every Conference Committee and Board member must learn from
> this.  I personally do not agree with throwing this message at the
> Korean local committee, who are working so hard to be open and
> passionate - it is on us to be mindful.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Conference_dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
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Re: Final proposal for hosting FOSS4G 2015 in Seoul, Korea

dkastl
Let me share some experience and numbers from State of the Map conference 2012 in Tokyo. Because I had similar worries that time about attendance from Europe or USA.

In the end the conference felt very international, because not all Japanese attendants went to the venue every day, but the international attendants generally did.
The numbers (see at the end) are tickets sold online, so some people bought tickets later at the venue. I think the total number of attendants was about 200 people (55-60% Japanese) ... and SotM was 1 year after the nuclear accident, and in a country, that is said to be very expensive (which isn't the case actually).
The attendance from Europe (especially from Germany) was quite good.

SotM is a very affordable event. The ticket price was about 70 USD for mappers and it included T-Shirt, lunch and even the gala dinner cruise was free, because it was paid by sponsorship money.

Which leads to the biggest problem in my opinion:
I was quite disappointed, that many of the big sponsors of previous conferences didn't sponsor the Tokyo event. Some were so kind to pay a few hundred dollars for the Bronze sponsorship, but it seems Asia is not their market, so don't expect that a gold sponsor in USA or Europe will also sponsor in South Korea. In the end almost the full sponsorship was collected from Japanese companies.

As a German living in Japan I must say that the distance to travel to North Korea isn't that different than from Europe to Portland. Or from Japan to Australia, or from Portland to North Korea. Everyone able to travel to Portland from Europe should be also able to travel to North Korea. 

About the costs for attendants from "low income countries":
As you see with SotM, even if the ticket price was such a good deal, it didn't have much effect. The costs to attend an international conference involves much more: hotel, flight, food. We had organized quite affordable hotels in Tokyo (a lot cheaper than what I could find in Portland so far), but the costs were probably still too high. It probably needs an affordable package including flight, stay and conference ticket. 
Did you ever think about asking an airline to sponsor for example? They might be able to provide flight discount tickets. Qatar Airways has a sponsorship program: http://www.qatarairways.com/global/en/sponsorship.page

I'm not so worried about international attendance.
But you will have an organizational challenge in a big city such as Seoul: I guess, most of foreigners will need some guidance to be able to get together in pubs during the conference ;-)

Daniel

Country statistics SotM 2012 Tokyo:
 99 Japan
 23 Germany
 13 USA
  9 UK
  5 Australia
  4 Taiwan
  3 France
  3 India
  3 Norway
  3 Switzerland
  2 Netherlands
  2 Romania
  2 South Korea
  2 Sweden
  1 China
  1 Estonia
  1 Ireland
  1 Mexico
  1 Spain
  1 Thailand
----------------
179 Total
 







On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 1:21 AM, Paul Ramsey <[hidden email]> wrote:
Using the existing FOSS4G.KR attendance as a baseline, conservatively
add in attendance from other Asian countries and Europe/NA, using the
information from past FOSS4G conferences. I'd say the non-Australian
2009 attendance could serve as a worst-case scenario for what might be
expected in terms of non-Korean attendance in 2015.

P.

On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Steven Feldman <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Jeff, I don’t think anyone doubts the commitment and effort of the Korean
> team. There will be different views as to why Beijing failed in 2012, surely
> we all agree that both the Conference Committee and potential event
> organisers should learn from that experience?
>
> Cameron raised a reasonable concern about the likely levels of attendance at
> a FOSS4G in Seoul by those from outside of the region. He suggested that the
> team consider a plan that would be viable with a primarily local attendance.
> I have also asked questions about the financial viability of the model that
> has been submitted. These are concerns that need to be discussed.
>
> Running a FOSS4G involves taking on some significant financial risks - if
> delegate numbers and/or sponsorship income do not reach target levels, the
> losses could be substantial. We may all agree that we would like to grow the
> use of OSGeo in South East Asia but what level of financial risk are we
> willing to accept? Are the organising team prepared to be the financially
> responsible body, do they have the resources to take a hit?
>
> I want to see a successful FOSS4G 15 in Korea, even if that is on a smaller
> scale than the European and North American events. A plan that ensures that
> the event will be successful with say 350 primarily regional delegates and
> which can flex to accommodate a larger and more international attendance
> will minimise risk.
> ______
> Steven
>
>
> On 10 May 2014, at 14:28, Jeff McKenna <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> There were of course warning signs...anyway but
> yes please every Conference Committee and Board member must learn from
> this.  I personally do not agree with throwing this message at the
> Korean local committee, who are working so hard to be open and
> passionate - it is on us to be mindful.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Conference_dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
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Re: Final proposal for hosting FOSS4G 2015 in Seoul, Korea

Sanghee Shin
Hi Daniel,

Thanks for your sharing experiences. I'm currently writing my answers to Cameron's comments.

Anyway onething I would like to corret is that Seoul is in "SOUTH" KOREA not in "North" Korea. So we're very peaceful person and we don't have intention to launch ICBM or test nuclear bomb.  

I'll send my thoughts on this soon.

With regards,

Sanghee




2014-05-11 13:43 GMT+01:00 Daniel Kastl <[hidden email]>:
Let me share some experience and numbers from State of the Map conference 2012 in Tokyo. Because I had similar worries that time about attendance from Europe or USA.

In the end the conference felt very international, because not all Japanese attendants went to the venue every day, but the international attendants generally did.
The numbers (see at the end) are tickets sold online, so some people bought tickets later at the venue. I think the total number of attendants was about 200 people (55-60% Japanese) ... and SotM was 1 year after the nuclear accident, and in a country, that is said to be very expensive (which isn't the case actually).
The attendance from Europe (especially from Germany) was quite good.

SotM is a very affordable event. The ticket price was about 70 USD for mappers and it included T-Shirt, lunch and even the gala dinner cruise was free, because it was paid by sponsorship money.

Which leads to the biggest problem in my opinion:
I was quite disappointed, that many of the big sponsors of previous conferences didn't sponsor the Tokyo event. Some were so kind to pay a few hundred dollars for the Bronze sponsorship, but it seems Asia is not their market, so don't expect that a gold sponsor in USA or Europe will also sponsor in South Korea. In the end almost the full sponsorship was collected from Japanese companies.

As a German living in Japan I must say that the distance to travel to North Korea isn't that different than from Europe to Portland. Or from Japan to Australia, or from Portland to North Korea. Everyone able to travel to Portland from Europe should be also able to travel to North Korea. 

About the costs for attendants from "low income countries":
As you see with SotM, even if the ticket price was such a good deal, it didn't have much effect. The costs to attend an international conference involves much more: hotel, flight, food. We had organized quite affordable hotels in Tokyo (a lot cheaper than what I could find in Portland so far), but the costs were probably still too high. It probably needs an affordable package including flight, stay and conference ticket. 
Did you ever think about asking an airline to sponsor for example? They might be able to provide flight discount tickets. Qatar Airways has a sponsorship program: http://www.qatarairways.com/global/en/sponsorship.page

I'm not so worried about international attendance.
But you will have an organizational challenge in a big city such as Seoul: I guess, most of foreigners will need some guidance to be able to get together in pubs during the conference ;-)

Daniel

Country statistics SotM 2012 Tokyo:
 99 Japan
 23 Germany
 13 USA
  9 UK
  5 Australia
  4 Taiwan
  3 France
  3 India
  3 Norway
  3 Switzerland
  2 Netherlands
  2 Romania
  2 South Korea
  2 Sweden
  1 China
  1 Estonia
  1 Ireland
  1 Mexico
  1 Spain
  1 Thailand
----------------
179 Total
 







On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 1:21 AM, Paul Ramsey <[hidden email]> wrote:
Using the existing FOSS4G.KR attendance as a baseline, conservatively
add in attendance from other Asian countries and Europe/NA, using the
information from past FOSS4G conferences. I'd say the non-Australian
2009 attendance could serve as a worst-case scenario for what might be
expected in terms of non-Korean attendance in 2015.

P.

On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Steven Feldman <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Jeff, I don’t think anyone doubts the commitment and effort of the Korean
> team. There will be different views as to why Beijing failed in 2012, surely
> we all agree that both the Conference Committee and potential event
> organisers should learn from that experience?
>
> Cameron raised a reasonable concern about the likely levels of attendance at
> a FOSS4G in Seoul by those from outside of the region. He suggested that the
> team consider a plan that would be viable with a primarily local attendance.
> I have also asked questions about the financial viability of the model that
> has been submitted. These are concerns that need to be discussed.
>
> Running a FOSS4G involves taking on some significant financial risks - if
> delegate numbers and/or sponsorship income do not reach target levels, the
> losses could be substantial. We may all agree that we would like to grow the
> use of OSGeo in South East Asia but what level of financial risk are we
> willing to accept? Are the organising team prepared to be the financially
> responsible body, do they have the resources to take a hit?
>
> I want to see a successful FOSS4G 15 in Korea, even if that is on a smaller
> scale than the European and North American events. A plan that ensures that
> the event will be successful with say 350 primarily regional delegates and
> which can flex to accommodate a larger and more international attendance
> will minimise risk.
> ______
> Steven
>
>
> On 10 May 2014, at 14:28, Jeff McKenna <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> There were of course warning signs...anyway but
> yes please every Conference Committee and Board member must learn from
> this.  I personally do not agree with throwing this message at the
> Korean local committee, who are working so hard to be open and
> passionate - it is on us to be mindful.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Conference_dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
_______________________________________________
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Re: Final proposal for hosting FOSS4G 2015 in Seoul, Korea

dkastl
Hi Sanghee,


Anyway onething I would like to corret is that Seoul is in "SOUTH" KOREA not in "North" Korea. So we're very peaceful person and we don't have intention to launch ICBM or test nuclear bomb.  

Sorry, that was not intentional ;-)
I think I read some report about North Korea around that time.

What I wanted to say with the nuclear accident in Fukushima: there were several people worried about the conference location, saying that it might affect the number of attendants from abroad.
So if this concern was true, then even more international attendants would have attended otherwise.

Daniel
 

I'll send my thoughts on this soon.

With regards,

Sanghee




2014-05-11 13:43 GMT+01:00 Daniel Kastl <[hidden email]>:

Let me share some experience and numbers from State of the Map conference 2012 in Tokyo. Because I had similar worries that time about attendance from Europe or USA.

In the end the conference felt very international, because not all Japanese attendants went to the venue every day, but the international attendants generally did.
The numbers (see at the end) are tickets sold online, so some people bought tickets later at the venue. I think the total number of attendants was about 200 people (55-60% Japanese) ... and SotM was 1 year after the nuclear accident, and in a country, that is said to be very expensive (which isn't the case actually).
The attendance from Europe (especially from Germany) was quite good.

SotM is a very affordable event. The ticket price was about 70 USD for mappers and it included T-Shirt, lunch and even the gala dinner cruise was free, because it was paid by sponsorship money.

Which leads to the biggest problem in my opinion:
I was quite disappointed, that many of the big sponsors of previous conferences didn't sponsor the Tokyo event. Some were so kind to pay a few hundred dollars for the Bronze sponsorship, but it seems Asia is not their market, so don't expect that a gold sponsor in USA or Europe will also sponsor in South Korea. In the end almost the full sponsorship was collected from Japanese companies.

As a German living in Japan I must say that the distance to travel to North Korea isn't that different than from Europe to Portland. Or from Japan to Australia, or from Portland to North Korea. Everyone able to travel to Portland from Europe should be also able to travel to North Korea. 

About the costs for attendants from "low income countries":
As you see with SotM, even if the ticket price was such a good deal, it didn't have much effect. The costs to attend an international conference involves much more: hotel, flight, food. We had organized quite affordable hotels in Tokyo (a lot cheaper than what I could find in Portland so far), but the costs were probably still too high. It probably needs an affordable package including flight, stay and conference ticket. 
Did you ever think about asking an airline to sponsor for example? They might be able to provide flight discount tickets. Qatar Airways has a sponsorship program: http://www.qatarairways.com/global/en/sponsorship.page

I'm not so worried about international attendance.
But you will have an organizational challenge in a big city such as Seoul: I guess, most of foreigners will need some guidance to be able to get together in pubs during the conference ;-)

Daniel

Country statistics SotM 2012 Tokyo:
 99 Japan
 23 Germany
 13 USA
  9 UK
  5 Australia
  4 Taiwan
  3 France
  3 India
  3 Norway
  3 Switzerland
  2 Netherlands
  2 Romania
  2 South Korea
  2 Sweden
  1 China
  1 Estonia
  1 Ireland
  1 Mexico
  1 Spain
  1 Thailand
----------------
179 Total
 







On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 1:21 AM, Paul Ramsey <[hidden email]> wrote:
Using the existing FOSS4G.KR attendance as a baseline, conservatively
add in attendance from other Asian countries and Europe/NA, using the
information from past FOSS4G conferences. I'd say the non-Australian
2009 attendance could serve as a worst-case scenario for what might be
expected in terms of non-Korean attendance in 2015.

P.

On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Steven Feldman <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Jeff, I don’t think anyone doubts the commitment and effort of the Korean
> team. There will be different views as to why Beijing failed in 2012, surely
> we all agree that both the Conference Committee and potential event
> organisers should learn from that experience?
>
> Cameron raised a reasonable concern about the likely levels of attendance at
> a FOSS4G in Seoul by those from outside of the region. He suggested that the
> team consider a plan that would be viable with a primarily local attendance.
> I have also asked questions about the financial viability of the model that
> has been submitted. These are concerns that need to be discussed.
>
> Running a FOSS4G involves taking on some significant financial risks - if
> delegate numbers and/or sponsorship income do not reach target levels, the
> losses could be substantial. We may all agree that we would like to grow the
> use of OSGeo in South East Asia but what level of financial risk are we
> willing to accept? Are the organising team prepared to be the financially
> responsible body, do they have the resources to take a hit?
>
> I want to see a successful FOSS4G 15 in Korea, even if that is on a smaller
> scale than the European and North American events. A plan that ensures that
> the event will be successful with say 350 primarily regional delegates and
> which can flex to accommodate a larger and more international attendance
> will minimise risk.
> ______
> Steven
>
>
> On 10 May 2014, at 14:28, Jeff McKenna <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> There were of course warning signs...anyway but
> yes please every Conference Committee and Board member must learn from
> this.  I personally do not agree with throwing this message at the
> Korean local committee, who are working so hard to be open and
> passionate - it is on us to be mindful.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Conference_dev mailing list
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Re: Final proposal for hosting FOSS4G 2015 in Seoul, Korea

Sanghee Shin
In reply to this post by Cameron Shorter
Dear Cameron,

Most of all I really appreciate your sincere advices and comments based on your real past experiences. I can feel your sincerity through your email. As a chair of the LOC, I also have similar concerns and worries. Actually I have very mixed feeling with much expectations and many worries on the FOSS4G 2015 at the same time. Anyway I would like to share my thoughts on your comments and advices.

1. I know one of my biggest weakenss point is that I'm always too optimistic all the time in my life. I think your realistic or conservative approach to the number of attendees will be very valuable compliment to the planning of FOSS4G 2015. I feel that we need to prepare the contingency plan based on the worst case scenario just like you mentioned including 'Half for low income prices'

Regarding 'Half for low income prices', actually I do feel that laborers in 'low-income countries' always subsidize us whenever we buy cheap T-shirts, clothes, electroinc devices or even enjoy favourable coffee. It's just my feeling and I don't want to start any social or political debate here. Anyway as I mentioned in my earlier reply to Steven, I think 'Half for low-income countries' could be just symbolic policy that could not affect much to our budget. Daniel already shared his experiences about this policy in SoTM 2012 in Tokyo.

However we'll look over the feasibility of this policy and potential impact to the budget and then we'll finally make a decision whether we'll employ this policy or not. That's why we mentioned employing this policy should be discussed with OSGeo Board.

2.  I will not consider FOSS4G 2015 as 'Regional Conference' and will NEVER have such a mindset in my mind. If I or you or so called OSGeo leaders think of FOSS4G2015 as 'Regional Conference', that would be the express ticket to the failure of FOSS4G 2015 immediately, I belive.

If I or you consider FOSS4G 2015 as regional one, our decision, behaviour and activities will be as such and limited, fixed at the regional level. And if you, OSGeo leaders, have a mindset that FOSS4G 2015 is a regional conference, and then your mindset will give very negative sign and effects to general OSGeo guys. That is human. Who will want to attend the International FOSS4G that is treated and regarded as regional event after paying lots of airfares and hotel expenses? They'd better attend their continent's own regional conference. Also sponsors will be very reluctant to support us, if they heard FOSS4G 2015 is treated as regional one by OSGeo leaders. I always believe that our mindset eventually affect our activities and results in the final results.

I know global FOSS4G in Asia will be the BIG challenge to OSGeo and us. However only if we persitently stick to 'International or Global FOSS4G 2015', and then we attract more delegates all around the world. That is the power and value of "International" FOSS4G.

3. Cameron, can I ask why you wouldn't be surprised if there can be only around 300 attendees at FOSS4G 2015? Because I think your mentioning about only 300 attendees suddenly creates fear and race of suggesting which number is lowest or worst case among us. So I just wonder whether you have mentioned that number with any ground or proof.

We experienced simliar situation in 2008 in Cape Town and in 2009 in Sydney. However total number of attendees always were more than 400. I felt that your mentioning about 300 attendees is now accepted as just like BEST case in the FOSS4G 2015 conference. Look at the Paul's email now.

I definately say that we need to prepare very conservative contigency plan for the wort case. However we don't need to focus our resources and energy to guess which number is lowest one. Instead we need to talk about how to increase delegates & sponsors.

4. I think we are on the verge of tipping point that we can goup to the virtuous cycle or we can go down to the vicious cycle. To go up to the virtuous cycle, the LOC need OSGeo's help from all around the world. I know FOSS4G 2015 is BIG challenge. However if we work together to overcome this challenge, we could get over all the things. So I ask your help and support.

Yep. It would be very diffuclt job for us to make FOSS4G 2015 successful one. So how can we make FOSS4G attractive? Let's go back to the basic. Why delegates want to attend FOSS4G? Maybe for learning, for business and networking. For learing, we need globally distinguished big names participation and those are you.

There is an old Korean saying, "Do your best and then wait for the heaven's order."

We, the LOC, are ready to do our best for the success of FOSS4G 2015 and it's now your turn.

With regards,

Sanghee


2014-05-09 22:34 GMT+01:00 Cameron Shorter <[hidden email]>:
Hi Sanghee,
Thank you for your proposal, and I'm delighted to see Korea submitting a proposal for FOSS4G. There are a few areas that makes me feel positive about a response from Korea:

1. I have been impressed with you Sanghee personally, with regards to your commitment and initiative. Chairing a FOSS4G is a significant amount of work, and requires some hard decisions. You will need to be strong enough to say "NO" to a lot of people who will have valid reasons as to why they should have a discount or something for free.

2. Korea has run regional foss4g events before, and that will provide valuable experience and contacts.

However, having said that, I'm concerned about assumptions of attendee profile, which will have an impact on the budget.

In particular, In your organisor minds, I suggest that you should consider "FOSS4G Korea" to be a Regional Conference, which has the added prestige of holding the OSGeo board meeting, and attracts a handful of international attendees, rather than an International conference which attracts lots of local attendees.

We learned this lesson the hard way at FOSS4G - Sydney, where we discovered that less than half our attendees were international. In particular, the majority of attendees we expected to come from Europe didn't turn up. Anecdotally, we heard that Europeans were saving their money for FOSS4G Barcelona the following year. And that was before the successful FOSS4G-NA and FOSS4G-Europe to compete with.

Also, be very mindful of the lessons learned from FOSS4G Beijing [1], which was cancelled.

I suggest that your conservative break even version of the budget should assume that you will only get a few attendees from Europe / North America - maybe 30 to 50.  I'd assume that 80% to 90% of attendees come from Asia, and as such, you should make sure that these attendees can cover the costs of the conference.
I am very nervous of the "Half price for low income countries" clause, as I suspect that these half price tickets would constitute the majority of attendees. If you do indeed want to keep the price down, I suggest considering:
a. Cut costs (use a cheap venue such as a University)
b. Profile where you expect attendees to come from, and make sure the local Asian attendees (say 80%) will cover conference costs.
c. Make sure any half price clauses, if included, will result in a profit if 80% of attendees are paying half price.

Note also, there will be a perception from rich countries that they are paying to subsidize local attendees, as well as paying international air fairs, which will leave a bad taste, and may result in even less international attendance.

I'm not sure how many people an Asian conference would attract, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were 300 instead of 450. I'd suggest considering a revised budget which considers a very conservative number of attendees.

[1] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/FOSS4G_2012_Lessons_Learned


On 29/04/2014 3:45 am, Sanghee Shin wrote:
Dear FOSS4G Selection Committee, 

On behalf of LOC, it's my great honor and pleasure to submit this final proposal for hosting FOSS4G 2015 in Seoul, Korea. 

Please note that some major changes has been made including venue, dates and co-organizer from our first LOI. 

I attached final proposals and budget estimation here. However I'd like to give you an executive summary as follows:

1. Venue : Seoul COEX
2. Preferred Dates : 14th Sep to 19th Sep, 2015.
3. Regular registration fee : KRW 500,000(USD 455) including VAT
4. Will organize 'FOSS4G Asia Special Session'
5. Want to introduce 'Half for low-income countries scheme'. For details, see page 24 in the proposal. Need talks with OSGeo board. 

We are ready to answer to your questions about our proposal. Let's start the talks. 

Thanks and regards, 

Sanghee
---
Shin, Sanghee
Gaia3D, Inc. - Helping Earth Sustainable 
http://www.gaia3d.com 
Tel : <a href="tel:%2B82-%280%292-3397-3475" target="_blank" value="+82233973475">+82-(0)2-3397-3475
Fax : <a href="tel:%2B82-%280%292-3397-3478" target="_blank" value="+82233973478">+82-(0)2-3397-3478


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P <a href="tel:%2B61%202%209009%205000" target="_blank" value="+61290095000">+61 2 9009 5000,  W www.lisasoft.com,  F <a href="tel:%2B61%202%209009%205099" target="_blank" value="+61290095099">+61 2 9009 5099


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Re: Final proposal for hosting FOSS4G 2015 in Seoul, Korea

Bart van den Eijnden (OSGIS)-2
Hi all,

I agree with Sanghee here that it’s important that the message to the outside world will be that this will be the international FOSS4G and not a regional event.

IMHO this does not prevent us from doing a conservative budget approach.

Best regards,
Bart

On 11 May 2014, at 17:37, 신상희 <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Cameron,

Most of all I really appreciate your sincere advices and comments based on your real past experiences. I can feel your sincerity through your email. As a chair of the LOC, I also have similar concerns and worries. Actually I have very mixed feeling with much expectations and many worries on the FOSS4G 2015 at the same time. Anyway I would like to share my thoughts on your comments and advices.

1. I know one of my biggest weakenss point is that I'm always too optimistic all the time in my life. I think your realistic or conservative approach to the number of attendees will be very valuable compliment to the planning of FOSS4G 2015. I feel that we need to prepare the contingency plan based on the worst case scenario just like you mentioned including 'Half for low income prices'

Regarding 'Half for low income prices', actually I do feel that laborers in 'low-income countries' always subsidize us whenever we buy cheap T-shirts, clothes, electroinc devices or even enjoy favourable coffee. It's just my feeling and I don't want to start any social or political debate here. Anyway as I mentioned in my earlier reply to Steven, I think 'Half for low-income countries' could be just symbolic policy that could not affect much to our budget. Daniel already shared his experiences about this policy in SoTM 2012 in Tokyo.

However we'll look over the feasibility of this policy and potential impact to the budget and then we'll finally make a decision whether we'll employ this policy or not. That's why we mentioned employing this policy should be discussed with OSGeo Board.

2.  I will not consider FOSS4G 2015 as 'Regional Conference' and will NEVER have such a mindset in my mind. If I or you or so called OSGeo leaders think of FOSS4G2015 as 'Regional Conference', that would be the express ticket to the failure of FOSS4G 2015 immediately, I belive.

If I or you consider FOSS4G 2015 as regional one, our decision, behaviour and activities will be as such and limited, fixed at the regional level. And if you, OSGeo leaders, have a mindset that FOSS4G 2015 is a regional conference, and then your mindset will give very negative sign and effects to general OSGeo guys. That is human. Who will want to attend the International FOSS4G that is treated and regarded as regional event after paying lots of airfares and hotel expenses? They'd better attend their continent's own regional conference. Also sponsors will be very reluctant to support us, if they heard FOSS4G 2015 is treated as regional one by OSGeo leaders. I always believe that our mindset eventually affect our activities and results in the final results.

I know global FOSS4G in Asia will be the BIG challenge to OSGeo and us. However only if we persitently stick to 'International or Global FOSS4G 2015', and then we attract more delegates all around the world. That is the power and value of "International" FOSS4G.

3. Cameron, can I ask why you wouldn't be surprised if there can be only around 300 attendees at FOSS4G 2015? Because I think your mentioning about only 300 attendees suddenly creates fear and race of suggesting which number is lowest or worst case among us. So I just wonder whether you have mentioned that number with any ground or proof.

We experienced simliar situation in 2008 in Cape Town and in 2009 in Sydney. However total number of attendees always were more than 400. I felt that your mentioning about 300 attendees is now accepted as just like BEST case in the FOSS4G 2015 conference. Look at the Paul's email now.

I definately say that we need to prepare very conservative contigency plan for the wort case. However we don't need to focus our resources and energy to guess which number is lowest one. Instead we need to talk about how to increase delegates & sponsors.

4. I think we are on the verge of tipping point that we can goup to the virtuous cycle or we can go down to the vicious cycle. To go up to the virtuous cycle, the LOC need OSGeo's help from all around the world. I know FOSS4G 2015 is BIG challenge. However if we work together to overcome this challenge, we could get over all the things. So I ask your help and support.

Yep. It would be very diffuclt job for us to make FOSS4G 2015 successful one. So how can we make FOSS4G attractive? Let's go back to the basic. Why delegates want to attend FOSS4G? Maybe for learning, for business and networking. For learing, we need globally distinguished big names participation and those are you.

There is an old Korean saying, "Do your best and then wait for the heaven's order."

We, the LOC, are ready to do our best for the success of FOSS4G 2015 and it's now your turn.

With regards,

Sanghee


2014-05-09 22:34 GMT+01:00 Cameron Shorter <[hidden email]>:
Hi Sanghee,
Thank you for your proposal, and I'm delighted to see Korea submitting a proposal for FOSS4G. There are a few areas that makes me feel positive about a response from Korea:

1. I have been impressed with you Sanghee personally, with regards to your commitment and initiative. Chairing a FOSS4G is a significant amount of work, and requires some hard decisions. You will need to be strong enough to say "NO" to a lot of people who will have valid reasons as to why they should have a discount or something for free.

2. Korea has run regional foss4g events before, and that will provide valuable experience and contacts.

However, having said that, I'm concerned about assumptions of attendee profile, which will have an impact on the budget.

In particular, In your organisor minds, I suggest that you should consider "FOSS4G Korea" to be a Regional Conference, which has the added prestige of holding the OSGeo board meeting, and attracts a handful of international attendees, rather than an International conference which attracts lots of local attendees.

We learned this lesson the hard way at FOSS4G - Sydney, where we discovered that less than half our attendees were international. In particular, the majority of attendees we expected to come from Europe didn't turn up. Anecdotally, we heard that Europeans were saving their money for FOSS4G Barcelona the following year. And that was before the successful FOSS4G-NA and FOSS4G-Europe to compete with.

Also, be very mindful of the lessons learned from FOSS4G Beijing [1], which was cancelled.

I suggest that your conservative break even version of the budget should assume that you will only get a few attendees from Europe / North America - maybe 30 to 50.  I'd assume that 80% to 90% of attendees come from Asia, and as such, you should make sure that these attendees can cover the costs of the conference.
I am very nervous of the "Half price for low income countries" clause, as I suspect that these half price tickets would constitute the majority of attendees. If you do indeed want to keep the price down, I suggest considering:
a. Cut costs (use a cheap venue such as a University)
b. Profile where you expect attendees to come from, and make sure the local Asian attendees (say 80%) will cover conference costs.
c. Make sure any half price clauses, if included, will result in a profit if 80% of attendees are paying half price.

Note also, there will be a perception from rich countries that they are paying to subsidize local attendees, as well as paying international air fairs, which will leave a bad taste, and may result in even less international attendance.

I'm not sure how many people an Asian conference would attract, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were 300 instead of 450. I'd suggest considering a revised budget which considers a very conservative number of attendees.

[1] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/FOSS4G_2012_Lessons_Learned


On 29/04/2014 3:45 am, Sanghee Shin wrote:
Dear FOSS4G Selection Committee, 

On behalf of LOC, it's my great honor and pleasure to submit this final proposal for hosting FOSS4G 2015 in Seoul, Korea. 

Please note that some major changes has been made including venue, dates and co-organizer from our first LOI. 

I attached final proposals and budget estimation here. However I'd like to give you an executive summary as follows:

1. Venue : Seoul COEX
2. Preferred Dates : 14th Sep to 19th Sep, 2015.
3. Regular registration fee : KRW 500,000(USD 455) including VAT
4. Will organize 'FOSS4G Asia Special Session'
5. Want to introduce 'Half for low-income countries scheme'. For details, see page 24 in the proposal. Need talks with OSGeo board. 

We are ready to answer to your questions about our proposal. Let's start the talks. 

Thanks and regards, 

Sanghee
---
Shin, Sanghee
Gaia3D, Inc. - Helping Earth Sustainable 
http://www.gaia3d.com 
Tel : <a href="tel:%2B82-%280%292-3397-3475" target="_blank" value="+82233973475">+82-(0)2-3397-3475
Fax : <a href="tel:%2B82-%280%292-3397-3478" target="_blank" value="+82233973478">+82-(0)2-3397-3478


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LISAsoft
Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009

P <a href="tel:%2B61%202%209009%205000" target="_blank" value="+61290095000">+61 2 9009 5000,  W www.lisasoft.com,  F <a href="tel:%2B61%202%209009%205099" target="_blank" value="+61290095099">+61 2 9009 5099

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Re: Final proposal for hosting FOSS4G 2015 in Seoul, Korea

Cameron Shorter
Hi Sanghee,
You are right to pick me up on my wording of "regional" vs "international" conference.
And indeed, we the OSGeo leaders should be using positive terms to describe FOSS4G.

So let me re-phrase as "FOSS4G should plan for an exciting international event, which will continue to be exciting, and financially viable should there be less attendees than in Europe of North America".

Every location has strengths and weaknesses, and Korea has many strengths to highlight.

The State of the Map is a good example. With a small number of attendees, you tend to find the people who do attend are the enthusiasts, the high value community members who make for a vibrant enthusiastic event.
In some of the more recent FOSS4G events, I've heard people mention that the increased size of the event has led to a reduction in the concentration of the community spirit and enthusiasm that FOSS4G started with.

One of the other attractors of Korea (and Asia in general) is that the region is an exotic travel destination for European / US people.

My reasons for estimating potential lower attendance at FOSS4G Korea are:
Europe and North America attract attendees because the have a rich, populous local user base to draw upon.

Sydney (2009) and Johannesburg  (2008) are both remote locations which resulting in lower attendance, (and that was when there was only one FOSS4G event per year, without competing regional events). Regional attendance was over half of the delegates, with international attendees previously numbering ~ 200. We are finding regional events are highly successful, with attendance at a regional USA/EU foss4g being comparable to an international foss4g EU/USA. Ie, international attendance at FOSS4G is becoming a relatively minor percentage at foss4g events.

FOSS4G Korea will compete with both a FOSS4G-NA and FOSS4G-EU for international delegates and sponsors.
Based on this, I'd guess ~ 80% attendees for FOSS4G Korea will be drawn from the Asian region. But the international delegates you do attract will be very interesting and create a great "buzz" for this Asian event.

Metrics from prior FOSS4G events:
https://docs.google.com/a/lisasoft.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Al9zh8DjmU_RdEZoOUtSeVZRVWtKQzV6R2N5ekdSdlE#gid=57

On 12/05/2014 3:13 am, Bart van den Eijnden wrote:
Hi all,

I agree with Sanghee here that it’s important that the message to the outside world will be that this will be the international FOSS4G and not a regional event.

IMHO this does not prevent us from doing a conservative budget approach.

Best regards,
Bart

On 11 May 2014, at 17:37, 신상희 <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Cameron,

Most of all I really appreciate your sincere advices and comments based on your real past experiences. I can feel your sincerity through your email. As a chair of the LOC, I also have similar concerns and worries. Actually I have very mixed feeling with much expectations and many worries on the FOSS4G 2015 at the same time. Anyway I would like to share my thoughts on your comments and advices.

1. I know one of my biggest weakenss point is that I'm always too optimistic all the time in my life. I think your realistic or conservative approach to the number of attendees will be very valuable compliment to the planning of FOSS4G 2015. I feel that we need to prepare the contingency plan based on the worst case scenario just like you mentioned including 'Half for low income prices'

Regarding 'Half for low income prices', actually I do feel that laborers in 'low-income countries' always subsidize us whenever we buy cheap T-shirts, clothes, electroinc devices or even enjoy favourable coffee. It's just my feeling and I don't want to start any social or political debate here. Anyway as I mentioned in my earlier reply to Steven, I think 'Half for low-income countries' could be just symbolic policy that could not affect much to our budget. Daniel already shared his experiences about this policy in SoTM 2012 in Tokyo.

However we'll look over the feasibility of this policy and potential impact to the budget and then we'll finally make a decision whether we'll employ this policy or not. That's why we mentioned employing this policy should be discussed with OSGeo Board.

2.  I will not consider FOSS4G 2015 as 'Regional Conference' and will NEVER have such a mindset in my mind. If I or you or so called OSGeo leaders think of FOSS4G2015 as 'Regional Conference', that would be the express ticket to the failure of FOSS4G 2015 immediately, I belive.

If I or you consider FOSS4G 2015 as regional one, our decision, behaviour and activities will be as such and limited, fixed at the regional level. And if you, OSGeo leaders, have a mindset that FOSS4G 2015 is a regional conference, and then your mindset will give very negative sign and effects to general OSGeo guys. That is human. Who will want to attend the International FOSS4G that is treated and regarded as regional event after paying lots of airfares and hotel expenses? They'd better attend their continent's own regional conference. Also sponsors will be very reluctant to support us, if they heard FOSS4G 2015 is treated as regional one by OSGeo leaders. I always believe that our mindset eventually affect our activities and results in the final results.

I know global FOSS4G in Asia will be the BIG challenge to OSGeo and us. However only if we persitently stick to 'International or Global FOSS4G 2015', and then we attract more delegates all around the world. That is the power and value of "International" FOSS4G.

3. Cameron, can I ask why you wouldn't be surprised if there can be only around 300 attendees at FOSS4G 2015? Because I think your mentioning about only 300 attendees suddenly creates fear and race of suggesting which number is lowest or worst case among us. So I just wonder whether you have mentioned that number with any ground or proof.

We experienced simliar situation in 2008 in Cape Town and in 2009 in Sydney. However total number of attendees always were more than 400. I felt that your mentioning about 300 attendees is now accepted as just like BEST case in the FOSS4G 2015 conference. Look at the Paul's email now.

I definately say that we need to prepare very conservative contigency plan for the wort case. However we don't need to focus our resources and energy to guess which number is lowest one. Instead we need to talk about how to increase delegates & sponsors.

4. I think we are on the verge of tipping point that we can goup to the virtuous cycle or we can go down to the vicious cycle. To go up to the virtuous cycle, the LOC need OSGeo's help from all around the world. I know FOSS4G 2015 is BIG challenge. However if we work together to overcome this challenge, we could get over all the things. So I ask your help and support.

Yep. It would be very diffuclt job for us to make FOSS4G 2015 successful one. So how can we make FOSS4G attractive? Let's go back to the basic. Why delegates want to attend FOSS4G? Maybe for learning, for business and networking. For learing, we need globally distinguished big names participation and those are you.

There is an old Korean saying, "Do your best and then wait for the heaven's order."

We, the LOC, are ready to do our best for the success of FOSS4G 2015 and it's now your turn.

With regards,

Sanghee


2014-05-09 22:34 GMT+01:00 Cameron Shorter <[hidden email]>:
Hi Sanghee,
Thank you for your proposal, and I'm delighted to see Korea submitting a proposal for FOSS4G. There are a few areas that makes me feel positive about a response from Korea:

1. I have been impressed with you Sanghee personally, with regards to your commitment and initiative. Chairing a FOSS4G is a significant amount of work, and requires some hard decisions. You will need to be strong enough to say "NO" to a lot of people who will have valid reasons as to why they should have a discount or something for free.

2. Korea has run regional foss4g events before, and that will provide valuable experience and contacts.

However, having said that, I'm concerned about assumptions of attendee profile, which will have an impact on the budget.

In particular, In your organisor minds, I suggest that you should consider "FOSS4G Korea" to be a Regional Conference, which has the added prestige of holding the OSGeo board meeting, and attracts a handful of international attendees, rather than an International conference which attracts lots of local attendees.

We learned this lesson the hard way at FOSS4G - Sydney, where we discovered that less than half our attendees were international. In particular, the majority of attendees we expected to come from Europe didn't turn up. Anecdotally, we heard that Europeans were saving their money for FOSS4G Barcelona the following year. And that was before the successful FOSS4G-NA and FOSS4G-Europe to compete with.

Also, be very mindful of the lessons learned from FOSS4G Beijing [1], which was cancelled.

I suggest that your conservative break even version of the budget should assume that you will only get a few attendees from Europe / North America - maybe 30 to 50.  I'd assume that 80% to 90% of attendees come from Asia, and as such, you should make sure that these attendees can cover the costs of the conference.
I am very nervous of the "Half price for low income countries" clause, as I suspect that these half price tickets would constitute the majority of attendees. If you do indeed want to keep the price down, I suggest considering:
a. Cut costs (use a cheap venue such as a University)
b. Profile where you expect attendees to come from, and make sure the local Asian attendees (say 80%) will cover conference costs.
c. Make sure any half price clauses, if included, will result in a profit if 80% of attendees are paying half price.

Note also, there will be a perception from rich countries that they are paying to subsidize local attendees, as well as paying international air fairs, which will leave a bad taste, and may result in even less international attendance.

I'm not sure how many people an Asian conference would attract, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were 300 instead of 450. I'd suggest considering a revised budget which considers a very conservative number of attendees.

[1] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/FOSS4G_2012_Lessons_Learned


On 29/04/2014 3:45 am, Sanghee Shin wrote:
Dear FOSS4G Selection Committee, 

On behalf of LOC, it's my great honor and pleasure to submit this final proposal for hosting FOSS4G 2015 in Seoul, Korea. 

Please note that some major changes has been made including venue, dates and co-organizer from our first LOI. 

I attached final proposals and budget estimation here. However I'd like to give you an executive summary as follows:

1. Venue : Seoul COEX
2. Preferred Dates : 14th Sep to 19th Sep, 2015.
3. Regular registration fee : KRW 500,000(USD 455) including VAT
4. Will organize 'FOSS4G Asia Special Session'
5. Want to introduce 'Half for low-income countries scheme'. For details, see page 24 in the proposal. Need talks with OSGeo board. 

We are ready to answer to your questions about our proposal. Let's start the talks. 

Thanks and regards, 

Sanghee
---
Shin, Sanghee
Gaia3D, Inc. - Helping Earth Sustainable 
http://www.gaia3d.com 
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