FOSS4GNA - SOMEONE IS WATCHING YOU :-o

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FOSS4GNA - SOMEONE IS WATCHING YOU :-o

Massimiliano Cannata
Just a funny note...

Nice to see that LocationTech has a FOSS4G email (!!!! WOW!!!!!) 

and..... 
that all the link on the received e-mail are connected with my user_id (I have one????? Yes) 

and.... 
that they are tracked (!!! without inform me !!!) 

and... 
that I have been added to a list that i'm not subscribed.... (http://mailchimp.com/about/mcsv/)


But...
Where did they get my e-mail from?
why thy didn't simply post the news to the discussion-osgeo list?
what do they want to track?



If you want to see the FOSS4G-NA without been traced here is the link https://2016.foss4g-na.org/


#SPAM #NOT-SO-FAIR #LIKE-MICROSOFT-THAT-SPY-ME #SCARY

Best,
Maxi

--
Massimiliano Cannata

Professore SUPSI in ingegneria Geomatica

Responsabile settore Geomatica


Istituto scienze della Terra

Dipartimento ambiente costruzione e design

Scuola universitaria professionale della Svizzera italiana

Campus Trevano, CH - 6952 Canobbio

Tel. +41 (0)58 666 62 14

Fax +41 (0)58 666 62 09

[hidden email]

www.supsi.ch/ist


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Re: FOSS4GNA - SOMEONE IS WATCHING YOU :-o

Rob Emanuele
Thanks for pointing out that it wasn't yet posted to OSGeo-Discuss, I just posted it.
There's a one-click unsubscribe button from that mailing list, sorry for the spam!

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 12:31 PM, Massimiliano Cannata <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just a funny note...

Nice to see that LocationTech has a FOSS4G email (!!!! WOW!!!!!) 

and..... 
that all the link on the received e-mail are connected with my user_id (I have one????? Yes) 

and.... 
that they are tracked (!!! without inform me !!!) 

and... 
that I have been added to a list that i'm not subscribed.... (http://mailchimp.com/about/mcsv/)


But...
Where did they get my e-mail from?
why thy didn't simply post the news to the discussion-osgeo list?
what do they want to track?



If you want to see the FOSS4G-NA without been traced here is the link https://2016.foss4g-na.org/


#SPAM #NOT-SO-FAIR #LIKE-MICROSOFT-THAT-SPY-ME #SCARY

Best,
Maxi

--
Massimiliano Cannata

Professore SUPSI in ingegneria Geomatica

Responsabile settore Geomatica


Istituto scienze della Terra

Dipartimento ambiente costruzione e design

Scuola universitaria professionale della Svizzera italiana

Campus Trevano, CH - 6952 Canobbio

Tel. <a href="tel:%2B41%20%280%2958%20666%2062%2014" value="+41586666214" target="_blank">+41 (0)58 666 62 14

Fax <a href="tel:%2B41%20%280%2958%20666%2062%2009" value="+41586666209" target="_blank">+41 (0)58 666 62 09

[hidden email]

www.supsi.ch/ist


_______________________________________________
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Re: FOSS4GNA - SOMEONE IS WATCHING YOU :-o

David Bianco
I believe MailChimp has policies against adding emails to your list without a user's authorization.
 
 
On Tue, Dec 15, 2015, at 10:16, Rob Emanuele wrote:
Thanks for pointing out that it wasn't yet posted to OSGeo-Discuss, I just posted it.
There's a one-click unsubscribe button from that mailing list, sorry for the spam!
 
On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 12:31 PM, Massimiliano Cannata <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just a funny note...
 
Nice to see that LocationTech has a FOSS4G email (!!!! WOW!!!!!) 
 
and..... 
that all the link on the received e-mail are connected with my user_id (I have one????? Yes) 
 
and.... 
that they are tracked (!!! without inform me !!!) 
 
and... 
that I have been added to a list that i'm not subscribed.... (http://mailchimp.com/about/mcsv/)
 
 
But...
Where did they get my e-mail from?
why thy didn't simply post the news to the discussion-osgeo list?
what do they want to track?
 
 
 
If you want to see the FOSS4G-NA without been traced here is the link https://2016.foss4g-na.org/
 
 
#SPAM #NOT-SO-FAIR #LIKE-MICROSOFT-THAT-SPY-ME #SCARY
 
Best,
Maxi
 
--
Massimiliano Cannata

Professore SUPSI in ingegneria Geomatica

Responsabile settore Geomatica


Istituto scienze della Terra


Dipartimento ambiente costruzione e design

Scuola universitaria professionale della Svizzera italiana

Campus Trevano, CH - 6952 Canobbio


Tel. <a href="tel:%2B41%20%280%2958%20666%2062%2014">+41 (0)58 666 62 14

Fax <a href="tel:%2B41%20%280%2958%20666%2062%2009">+41 (0)58 666 62 09

[hidden email]

www.supsi.ch/ist

 
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
 

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Re: FOSS4GNA - SOMEONE IS WATCHING YOU :-o

Rob Emanuele
Hey David,

The emails on the mailing list were cultivated by past FOSS4G NA attendees, people opting in in other ways, and from lists that were given by members of this and last year's committee. If we're spamming people who didn't opt in, it is not intentional and apologies for the spam (the world certainly doesn't need more spam). We'll take a look at the list moving forward to try to prevent from sending emails to anyone who didn't opt in.

Thanks,
Rob

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 2:48 PM, David Bianco <[hidden email]> wrote:
I believe MailChimp has policies against adding emails to your list without a user's authorization.
 
 
On Tue, Dec 15, 2015, at 10:16, Rob Emanuele wrote:
Thanks for pointing out that it wasn't yet posted to OSGeo-Discuss, I just posted it.
There's a one-click unsubscribe button from that mailing list, sorry for the spam!
 
On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 12:31 PM, Massimiliano Cannata <[hidden email]> wrote:
Just a funny note...
 
Nice to see that LocationTech has a FOSS4G email (!!!! WOW!!!!!) 
 
and..... 
that all the link on the received e-mail are connected with my user_id (I have one????? Yes) 
 
and.... 
that they are tracked (!!! without inform me !!!) 
 
and... 
that I have been added to a list that i'm not subscribed.... (http://mailchimp.com/about/mcsv/)
 
 
But...
Where did they get my e-mail from?
why thy didn't simply post the news to the discussion-osgeo list?
what do they want to track?
 
 
 
If you want to see the FOSS4G-NA without been traced here is the link https://2016.foss4g-na.org/
 
 
#SPAM #NOT-SO-FAIR #LIKE-MICROSOFT-THAT-SPY-ME #SCARY
 
Best,
Maxi
 
--
Massimiliano Cannata

Professore SUPSI in ingegneria Geomatica

Responsabile settore Geomatica


Istituto scienze della Terra


Dipartimento ambiente costruzione e design

Scuola universitaria professionale della Svizzera italiana

Campus Trevano, CH - 6952 Canobbio


Tel. <a href="tel:%2B41%20%280%2958%20666%2062%2014" target="_blank">+41 (0)58 666 62 14

Fax <a href="tel:%2B41%20%280%2958%20666%2062%2009" target="_blank">+41 (0)58 666 62 09

[hidden email]

www.supsi.ch/ist

 
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
 

_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


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Re: FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o

Gert-Jan

First: I took the opportunity to change the subject of this thread to a less shouting version (CAPS LOCK and spam live side-by-side on my email-irritation-scale)

 

 

Second: Funny to see how the use of two different channels (mailing list vs. MailChimp) kind of reflect the different approaches to reach the -more of less- same goal.

Any expanding organisation / movement / community comes to a point where the classical channels (like a mailing list) reach their limits,

and "new" marketing (yuch! marketing==ugly & bad!) channels & methods may help to stretch beyond borders. Which comes at a cost (as Maxi tries to tell, I guess).

 

Food for thought for the Board face2face meeting in January (and for the entire community) to determine

- what our goals are

- what our values are

- and how these two compare to each other.

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Gert-Jan

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Van: Discuss [mailto:[hidden email]] Namens Rob Emanuele
Verzonden: dinsdag 15 december 2015 21:51
Aan: David Bianco
CC: OSGeo Discussions
Onderwerp: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4GNA - SOMEONE IS WATCHING YOU :-o

 

Hey David,

 

The emails on the mailing list were cultivated by past FOSS4G NA attendees, people opting in in other ways, and from lists that were given by members of this and last year's committee. If we're spamming people who didn't opt in, it is not intentional and apologies for the spam (the world certainly doesn't need more spam). We'll take a look at the list moving forward to try to prevent from sending emails to anyone who didn't opt in.

 

Thanks,

Rob

 

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 2:48 PM, David Bianco <[hidden email]> wrote:

I believe MailChimp has policies against adding emails to your list without a user's authorization.

 

 

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015, at 10:16, Rob Emanuele wrote:

Thanks for pointing out that it wasn't yet posted to OSGeo-Discuss, I just posted it.

There's a one-click unsubscribe button from that mailing list, sorry for the spam!

 

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 12:31 PM, Massimiliano Cannata <[hidden email]> wrote:

Just a funny note...

 

Nice to see that LocationTech has a FOSS4G email (!!!! WOW!!!!!) 

 

and..... 

that all the link on the received e-mail are connected with my user_id (I have one????? Yes) 

 

and.... 

that they are tracked (!!! without inform me !!!) 

 

and... 

that I have been added to a list that i'm not subscribed.... (http://mailchimp.com/about/mcsv/)

 

 

But...

Where did they get my e-mail from?

why thy didn't simply post the news to the discussion-osgeo list?

what do they want to track?

 

 

 

If you want to see the FOSS4G-NA without been traced here is the link https://2016.foss4g-na.org/

 

 

#SPAM #NOT-SO-FAIR #LIKE-MICROSOFT-THAT-SPY-ME #SCARY

 

Best,

Maxi

 

--

Massimiliano Cannata

Professore SUPSI in ingegneria Geomatica

Responsabile settore Geomatica

 

Istituto scienze della Terra

 

Dipartimento ambiente costruzione e design

Scuola universitaria professionale della Svizzera italiana

Campus Trevano, CH - 6952 Canobbio

 

Tel. <a href="tel:%2B41%20%280%2958%20666%2062%2014" target="_blank">+41 (0)58 666 62 14

Fax <a href="tel:%2B41%20%280%2958%20666%2062%2009" target="_blank">+41 (0)58 666 62 09

[hidden email]

www.supsi.ch/ist

 

_______________________________________________

Discuss mailing list

_______________________________________________

Discuss mailing list

 


_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

 


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Re: FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o

Massimiliano Cannata
In reply to this post by Massimiliano Cannata
Dear Gert-Jan, dear all,
sorry if capitals hurts you.... I didn't wanted to be too pervasive or irreverent and disturb you.


The point is that I felt a target of a marketing action, like a superstore trying to sell their product and invading my privacy.

I don't know if MailChimp is a "standard" for some type of companies but certainly I don't want it to be for communicating with OSGeo community.

OSGeo community is the resource, the gasoline for OSGeo not a crowd of customers !!!!

OSGeo and FOSS4G is for the community and should be adherent to the OPEN (sorry but i want to be loud here) principle and to me this is not only in the licence you choose.

OPEN to me means also correct, social, transparent, consistent.

How many time I have hear that Google spy you, and Microsoft without explicitly inform you collect information on your behavior while Linux do not do this kind of things?

Well, finding that someone send e-mails to OSGeo community without a given permission to do so and that he tracks their actions without informing them explicitly, well let me say that I found is a violation of these principle.

Then, this may not be a big problem as this is happening more and more often. i will smoothly sleep tonight. But don't blame me if my opinion is this and if I would like to see a different way of approaching the community.

Maxi





2015-12-15 23:38 GMT+01:00 Gert-Jan van der Weijden - Stichting OSGeo.nl <[hidden email]>:

First: I took the opportunity to change the subject of this thread to a less shouting version (CAPS LOCK and spam live side-by-side on my email-irritation-scale)

 

 

Second: Funny to see how the use of two different channels (mailing list vs. MailChimp) kind of reflect the different approaches to reach the -more of less- same goal.

Any expanding organisation / movement / community comes to a point where the classical channels (like a mailing list) reach their limits,

and "new" marketing (yuch! marketing==ugly & bad!) channels & methods may help to stretch beyond borders. Which comes at a cost (as Maxi tries to tell, I guess).

 

Food for thought for the Board face2face meeting in January (and for the entire community) to determine

- what our goals are

- what our values are

- and how these two compare to each other.

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Gert-Jan

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Van: Discuss [mailto:[hidden email]] Namens Rob Emanuele
Verzonden: dinsdag 15 december 2015 21:51
Aan: David Bianco
CC: OSGeo Discussions
Onderwerp: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4GNA - SOMEONE IS WATCHING YOU :-o

 

Hey David,

 

The emails on the mailing list were cultivated by past FOSS4G NA attendees, people opting in in other ways, and from lists that were given by members of this and last year's committee. If we're spamming people who didn't opt in, it is not intentional and apologies for the spam (the world certainly doesn't need more spam). We'll take a look at the list moving forward to try to prevent from sending emails to anyone who didn't opt in.

 

Thanks,

Rob

 

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 2:48 PM, David Bianco <[hidden email]> wrote:

I believe MailChimp has policies against adding emails to your list without a user's authorization.

 

 

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015, at 10:16, Rob Emanuele wrote:

Thanks for pointing out that it wasn't yet posted to OSGeo-Discuss, I just posted it.

There's a one-click unsubscribe button from that mailing list, sorry for the spam!

 

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 12:31 PM, Massimiliano Cannata <[hidden email]> wrote:

Just a funny note...

 

Nice to see that LocationTech has a FOSS4G email (!!!! WOW!!!!!) 

 

and..... 

that all the link on the received e-mail are connected with my user_id (I have one????? Yes) 

 

and.... 

that they are tracked (!!! without inform me !!!) 

 

and... 

that I have been added to a list that i'm not subscribed.... (http://mailchimp.com/about/mcsv/)

 

 

But...

Where did they get my e-mail from?

why thy didn't simply post the news to the discussion-osgeo list?

what do they want to track?

 

 

 

If you want to see the FOSS4G-NA without been traced here is the link https://2016.foss4g-na.org/

 

 

#SPAM #NOT-SO-FAIR #LIKE-MICROSOFT-THAT-SPY-ME #SCARY

 

Best,

Maxi

 

--

Massimiliano Cannata

Professore SUPSI in ingegneria Geomatica

Responsabile settore Geomatica

 

Istituto scienze della Terra

 

Dipartimento ambiente costruzione e design

Scuola universitaria professionale della Svizzera italiana

Campus Trevano, CH - 6952 Canobbio

 

Tel. <a href="tel:%2B41%20%280%2958%20666%2062%2014" target="_blank">+41 (0)58 666 62 14

Fax <a href="tel:%2B41%20%280%2958%20666%2062%2009" target="_blank">+41 (0)58 666 62 09

[hidden email]

www.supsi.ch/ist

 

_______________________________________________

Discuss mailing list

_______________________________________________

Discuss mailing list

 


_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

 




--
Massimiliano Cannata

Professore SUPSI in ingegneria Geomatica

Responsabile settore Geomatica


Istituto scienze della Terra

Dipartimento ambiente costruzione e design

Scuola universitaria professionale della Svizzera italiana

Campus Trevano, CH - 6952 Canobbio

Tel. +41 (0)58 666 62 14

Fax +41 (0)58 666 62 09

[hidden email]

www.supsi.ch/ist


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Re: FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o

Pat Tressel
I'm concerned about the vague accusations without evidence.  They also don't seem relevant to the discussion about how one's name got on various mailing lists.

I don't know if MailChimp is a "standard" for some type of companies but certainly I don't want it to be for communicating with OSGeo community.
 
MailChimp is a very popular product.  If you have a provable accusation against them -- that they were acting **independently of the account administrator** to alter lists, then that would be significant.  As Rob has stated, MailChimp did not do something by itself.  The list was aggregated from previous lists and events in which people participated.

OSGeo and FOSS4G is for the community and should be adherent to the OPEN (sorry but i want to be loud here) principle and to me this is not only in the licence you choose.

Does that mean you don't want to use any commercial tools, or only use open-source products?  That's difficult.  For instance, I don't know any non-commercial, open-source ISPs or domain registrars.  Or hosting services, though one could run one's own servers.  Don't see how you'd get around the need for a domain registrar though...use bare IP addresses?

How many time I have hear that Google spy you, and Microsoft without explicitly inform you collect information on your behavior while Linux do not do this kind of things?

Sorry, can't let that one stand...  You may have heard things but that does not make things true.  Be careful what you believe or assume -- question the rumors you hear.  Also, things change.  An opinion that might have been valid once may not be any longer.

Google and Microsoft are companies.  Linux is not a company, it is an open-source project.  A *company* that *provides a Linux distro* might do marketing to you.  If you buy RedHat Enterprise Linux, you will likely get on their mailing list.  (If I bought RHEL, they had *better* tell me what's going on...)  You can likely opt out of most of their communications.

Google's *business* is making recommendations.  They provide personalized advertising recommendation services.  If you use their free services then you *opt in* to having them use your web searches to select ads for sites that use Google advertising services.  If retailers use Google services to place ads, and you shop on those retailers' sites, then they may show you ads relating to your purchases.  This is just how personalized online advertising works.  Frankly, I'd rather see ads for something I'm interested in.  Google has repeatedly fought requests by governments to divulge personal information.

Once Upon a Time, Microsoft earned its reputation as the Evil Empire, mainly based on pressuring PC manufacturers to ship products with Windows installed, and encouraging an argumentative employee culture.  However, Microsoft has changed.  If you want to point at a company as being the Evil Empire these days, you'd be more accurate pointing at Apple (cancelling licenses for Mac clones, suicides at Foxconn, restrictions on getting apps on iTunes, removing fitness tracker products from their stores because they might compete with the Apple Watch, etc. -- do a search for "apple anti competitive practices").  Microsoft now has significant open-source programs.  They are also in the forefront among tech companies in reforming their employee culture.  They *cancelled stack ranking*.  I don't know if I can convey just how important and significant that is.  Most other tech companies still do it in spite of research showing how it hurts performance and employee morale.  Their new CEO, Satya Nadella, is an actual nice person.  So, times change.

-- Pat

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Re: FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o

Puneet Kishor


> On Dec 16, 2015, at 3:07 PM, Pat Tressel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> If you want to point at a company as being the Evil Empire these days, you'd be more accurate pointing at Apple (cancelling licenses for Mac clones, suicides at Foxconn, restrictions on getting apps on iTunes, removing fitness tracker products from their stores because they might compete with the Apple Watch, etc. -- do a search for "apple anti competitive practices")

You were doing fine until above. The rest of your post is indeed very relevant and useful and argues correctly for sanity instead of knee-jerk accusations (until the above assertions, of course).

The point is, there seems to be a fairly strident Location Tech bashing going on, and it is getting to be tiring. Let's stick to keeping OSGeo a fun, useful champion of free and open geospatial without becoming anti-anything-free, partisan and possibly irrelevant.

--
Puneet Kishor
Just Another Creative Commoner
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Re: FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o

Massimiliano Cannata

Pat
You misunderstood or probably i didn't explained myself.

I'm not against any proprietary software or company. I use google and agree to accept their term of use.

I don't think there is any evil around, just people taking care of their interests.

My point is that i didn't agreed to be included in any list and i don't want anyone to trak and link my actions while looking at a foss4g website withou advise it.
Can I say this or not?

I believe that on open source community thay care of their open principle should particularly take care of this aspects.
Can I say this or not?

Puneet,
You may think I'm working against LocationTech but is not true. I have no interest at all in this. I'm fully open for any collaboration with anyone when it leads to reciprocal benfits.

Best
Maxi

Il 16/Dic/2015 10:56, "Puneet Kishor" <[hidden email]> ha scritto:


> On Dec 16, 2015, at 3:07 PM, Pat Tressel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> If you want to point at a company as being the Evil Empire these days, you'd be more accurate pointing at Apple (cancelling licenses for Mac clones, suicides at Foxconn, restrictions on getting apps on iTunes, removing fitness tracker products from their stores because they might compete with the Apple Watch, etc. -- do a search for "apple anti competitive practices")

You were doing fine until above. The rest of your post is indeed very relevant and useful and argues correctly for sanity instead of knee-jerk accusations (until the above assertions, of course).

The point is, there seems to be a fairly strident Location Tech bashing going on, and it is getting to be tiring. Let's stick to keeping OSGeo a fun, useful champion of free and open geospatial without becoming anti-anything-free, partisan and possibly irrelevant.

--
Puneet Kishor
Just Another Creative Commoner
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Re: FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o

isedwards
In reply to this post by Puneet Kishor
    "there seems to be a fairly strident Location Tech bashing going on"

This negative "bashing" of other organisations has to completely stop because it is having a massive negative impact on OSGeo.

We've recently lost a respected former board member (who has resigned his charter member status) and the OSGeo president, both in relation to how we've conducted ourselves in relation to other organisations in the community.  These internal losses are not due to there being other organisations in the geospatial world, nor how they are acting - but instead our losses are due to how we ourselves are thinking and behaving.

OSGeo should positively support all elements of the geospatial community including users, developers and also other organisations to the fullest and best of our ability.  By doing this we become stronger (instead of weaker) and will remain useful, relevant and of interest to the community who will continue to invest their energy and efforts with us and recognise our unique value and position.

In relation to LocationTech - similar divisions exist across the entire Open Source world (take a look at LibreOffice and OpenOffice, or MariaDB and MySQL).  The broard "FOSS4G" community (encompassing both OSGeo and LocationTech) is not alone in facing this, and my hope is that OSGeo can once again be a beacon to the rest of the open source world and show how best to embrace these differences, understand the strengths and weakness in both camps, and work together for the positive benefit of our diverse community.


--
Ian Edwards

On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Puneet Kishor <[hidden email]> wrote:


> On Dec 16, 2015, at 3:07 PM, Pat Tressel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> If you want to point at a company as being the Evil Empire these days, you'd be more accurate pointing at Apple (cancelling licenses for Mac clones, suicides at Foxconn, restrictions on getting apps on iTunes, removing fitness tracker products from their stores because they might compete with the Apple Watch, etc. -- do a search for "apple anti competitive practices")

You were doing fine until above. The rest of your post is indeed very relevant and useful and argues correctly for sanity instead of knee-jerk accusations (until the above assertions, of course).

The point is, there seems to be a fairly strident Location Tech bashing going on, and it is getting to be tiring. Let's stick to keeping OSGeo a fun, useful champion of free and open geospatial without becoming anti-anything-free, partisan and possibly irrelevant.

--
Puneet Kishor
Just Another Creative Commoner
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Re: FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o

Jeroen Ticheler - GeoCat
Thanks Ian for this email! I fully support what you are writing. It is very much time to stop the negative sentiments around LocationTech, FOSS4G conference offers that had LocationTech as a partner and so forth. Constructive collaboration is all we need within OSGeo AND with others in the (geo-)community.

I’ve heard negative sentiments about the FOSS4G 2017 selection process. As a member of the Conference Committee I would like to state here that I am convinced the LocationTech issue was not as decisive for most members as people outside the committee seem to think. It was an aspect discussed thoroughly, as were other aspects of the proposals.

I hope the Face to Face meeting end of January by the OSGeo board hosted in our GeoCat office will be constructive and positive from all angles. But at this stage I also call upon the OSGeo Board to come forward with a statement that helps to unify the OSGeo community and give directions. There seems to be a vacuum in the leadership right now with Jeff’s sudden resignation that should be filled as soon as possible.

Greetings,
Jeroen

____________________________________________________
Try GeoCat
 Bridge© 
An extension to ArcGIS© to instantly publish data and metadata on GeoServer, MapServer, PostGIS and GeoNetwork.
See http://geocat.net for more details. 

Jeroen Ticheler
GeoCat bv
Veenderweg 13
6721 WD Bennekom
The Netherlands
Tel: +31 (0)6 81286572
http://geocat.net


On 16 dec. 2015, at 12:29, Ian Edwards <[hidden email]> wrote:

    "there seems to be a fairly strident Location Tech bashing going on"

This negative "bashing" of other organisations has to completely stop because it is having a massive negative impact on OSGeo.

We've recently lost a respected former board member (who has resigned his charter member status) and the OSGeo president, both in relation to how we've conducted ourselves in relation to other organisations in the community.  These internal losses are not due to there being other organisations in the geospatial world, nor how they are acting - but instead our losses are due to how we ourselves are thinking and behaving.

OSGeo should positively support all elements of the geospatial community including users, developers and also other organisations to the fullest and best of our ability.  By doing this we become stronger (instead of weaker) and will remain useful, relevant and of interest to the community who will continue to invest their energy and efforts with us and recognise our unique value and position.

In relation to LocationTech - similar divisions exist across the entire Open Source world (take a look at LibreOffice and OpenOffice, or MariaDB and MySQL).  The broard "FOSS4G" community (encompassing both OSGeo and LocationTech) is not alone in facing this, and my hope is that OSGeo can once again be a beacon to the rest of the open source world and show how best to embrace these differences, understand the strengths and weakness in both camps, and work together for the positive benefit of our diverse community.


--
Ian Edwards

On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Puneet Kishor <[hidden email]> wrote:


> On Dec 16, 2015, at 3:07 PM, Pat Tressel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> If you want to point at a company as being the Evil Empire these days, you'd be more accurate pointing at Apple (cancelling licenses for Mac clones, suicides at Foxconn, restrictions on getting apps on iTunes, removing fitness tracker products from their stores because they might compete with the Apple Watch, etc. -- do a search for "apple anti competitive practices")

You were doing fine until above. The rest of your post is indeed very relevant and useful and argues correctly for sanity instead of knee-jerk accusations (until the above assertions, of course).

The point is, there seems to be a fairly strident Location Tech bashing going on, and it is getting to be tiring. Let's stick to keeping OSGeo a fun, useful champion of free and open geospatial without becoming anti-anything-free, partisan and possibly irrelevant.

--
Puneet Kishor
Just Another Creative Commoner
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

_______________________________________________
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Re: FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o

Venkatesh Raghavan
In reply to this post by Pat Tressel
On 2015/12/16 18:37, Pat Tressel wrote:
> MailChimp is a very popular product. If you have a provable accusation
> against them -- that they were acting **independently of the account
> administrator** to alter lists, then that would be significant. As Rob
> has stated, MailChimp did not do something by itself. The list was
> aggregated from previous lists and events in which people participated.

I have also received a similar unsolicited mail. I would like to know
who has authorized
the aggregation and usage of email address from "previous lists and
events in which
people participated". I think every event has a privacy policy and
e-mail address provided
are only to be used for communicating about the specific event and not
for aggregating for
future use.

Venka
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Re: FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o

Daniel Morissette
On 2015-12-16 10:00 AM, Venkatesh Raghavan wrote:

> On 2015/12/16 18:37, Pat Tressel wrote:
>> MailChimp is a very popular product. If you have a provable accusation
>> against them -- that they were acting **independently of the account
>> administrator** to alter lists, then that would be significant. As Rob
>> has stated, MailChimp did not do something by itself. The list was
>> aggregated from previous lists and events in which people participated.
>
> I have also received a similar unsolicited mail. I would like to know
> who has authorized
> the aggregation and usage of email address from "previous lists and
> events in which
> people participated". I think every event has a privacy policy and
> e-mail address provided
> are only to be used for communicating about the specific event and not
> for aggregating for
> future use.
>


For the record, the use of such mailing services for FOSS4G promotion is
not new. Even FOSS4G 2015 (Seoul) used MailChimp in a very similar way,
I still have some of their mails in my archives, and I'm sure other past
events did as well but I didn't bother digging any further.

How can you realistically expect to do outreach to new people if you
only announce your event on osgeo-discuss?

This anti-anything-locationtech-does drama is becoming boring, please
let's get over it.

--
Daniel Morissette
http://www.mapgears.com/
T: +1 418-696-5056 #201

http://evouala.com/ - Location Intelligence Made Easy
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Re: FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o

Dave Patton-2
In reply to this post by Venkatesh Raghavan
On 2015/12/16 07:00, Venkatesh Raghavan wrote:

> On 2015/12/16 18:37, Pat Tressel wrote:
>> MailChimp is a very popular product. If you have a provable
>> accusation against them -- that they were acting **independently of
>> the account administrator** to alter lists, then that would be
>> significant. As Rob has stated, MailChimp did not do something by
>> itself. The list was aggregated from previous lists and events in
>> which people participated.
>
> I have also received a similar unsolicited mail. I would like to know
>  who has authorized the aggregation and usage of email address from
> "previous lists and events in which people participated". I think
> every event has a privacy policy and e-mail address provided are only
> to be used for communicating about the specific event and not for
> aggregating for future use.

I too received the unsolicited email.

Presumably it was because I was involved with
the organization of FOSS4G2007.

I have already used the (tracked) Unsubscribe link,
and provided the feedback option that I unsubscribed
because I never opted in.

My suggestions:
1)
It may need to be clarified, or explicitly stated
(e.g. anywhere OSGeo/FOSS4g-related that collects
an email address), but I would suggest that it is
acceptable to utilize "collected email addresses"
for "1-time announcement" emails.

2)
When sending a "1-time announcement" email:
- do not utilize any form of "tracking"
- make it clear that this is a "1-time" email
   (i.e. in this case, for FOSS4GNA)
- provide multiple methods in the email (such
   as links and a "reply with xxxx in the subject"
   email mechanism) so that the recipient can
   "opt in"
- provide a clear (untracked) method so that the
   recipient can "opt out" of any further "1-time"
   emails (i.e. in this case, for FOSS4GNA)

--
Dave Patton
Victoria, B.C.

Degree Confluence Project:
Canadian Coordinator
Technical Coordinator
http://www.confluence.org/

Personal website:
http://members.shaw.ca/davepatton/
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Re: FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o

Jorge Gustavo Rocha-2
In reply to this post by Jeroen Ticheler - GeoCat
Hi Jeroen,

Thanks for your constructive message. Ian was very constructive also.

Maybe I spend too much time coding and I miss a few emails. Did Jeff
resign? What have we done to upset him so much?

Regards,

Jorge Gustavo

Às 13:29 de 16-12-2015, Jeroen Ticheler escreveu:

> Thanks Ian for this email! I fully support what you are writing. It is
> very much time to stop the negative sentiments around LocationTech,
> FOSS4G conference offers that had LocationTech as a partner and so
> forth. Constructive collaboration is all we need within OSGeo AND with
> others in the (geo-)community.
>
> I’ve heard negative sentiments about the FOSS4G 2017 selection process.
> As a member of the Conference Committee I would like to state here that
> I am convinced the LocationTech issue was not as decisive for most
> members as people outside the committee seem to think. It was an aspect
> discussed thoroughly, as were other aspects of the proposals.
>
> I hope the Face to Face meeting end of January by the OSGeo board hosted
> in our GeoCat office will be constructive and positive from all angles.
> But at this stage I also call upon the OSGeo Board to come forward with
> a statement that helps to unify the OSGeo community and give directions.
> There seems to be a vacuum in the leadership right now with Jeff’s
> sudden resignation that should be filled as soon as possible.
>
> Greetings,
> Jeroen
>
> ____________________________________________________
> **
> **
> ***
> *
> *
> *Try GeoCat*
> *
> *Bridge©
> ***
> *
> An extension to ArcGIS© to instantly publish data and metadata on
> GeoServer, MapServer, PostGIS and GeoNetwork.
> *
> *
> See http://geocat.net <http://geocat.net/> for more details.
> *
>
> Jeroen Ticheler
> GeoCat bv
> Veenderweg 13
> 6721 WD Bennekom
> The Netherlands
> Tel: +31 (0)6 81286572
> http://geocat.net
>
> <http://www.oxfamnovib.nl/en-home.html?language=engels>
> <http://www.oxfamnovib.nl/en-home.html?language=engels>
>> On 16 dec. 2015, at 12:29, Ian Edwards <[hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>> /"there seems to be a fairly strident Location Tech bashing going on"/
>>
>> This negative "bashing" of other organisations has to completely stop
>> because it is having a massive negative impact on OSGeo.
>>
>> We've recently lost a respected former board member (who has resigned
>> his charter member status) and the OSGeo president, both in relation
>> to how we've conducted ourselves in relation to other organisations in
>> the community.  These internal losses are not due to there being other
>> organisations in the geospatial world, nor how they are acting - but
>> instead our losses are due to how we ourselves are thinking and behaving.
>>
>> OSGeo should positively support all elements of the geospatial
>> community including users, developers and also other organisations to
>> the fullest and best of our ability.  By doing this we become stronger
>> (instead of weaker) and will remain useful, relevant and of interest
>> to the community who will continue to invest their energy and efforts
>> with us and recognise our unique value and position.
>>
>> In relation to LocationTech - similar divisions exist across the
>> entire Open Source world (take a look at LibreOffice and OpenOffice,
>> or MariaDB and MySQL).  The broard "FOSS4G" community (encompassing
>> both OSGeo and LocationTech) is not alone in facing this, and my hope
>> is that OSGeo can once again be a beacon to the rest of the open
>> source world and show how best to embrace these differences,
>> understand the strengths and weakness in both camps, and work together
>> for the positive benefit of our diverse community.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ian Edwards
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Puneet Kishor <[hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>     > On Dec 16, 2015, at 3:07 PM, Pat Tressel <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>     >
>>     > If you want to point at a company as being the Evil Empire these days, you'd be more accurate pointing at Apple (cancelling licenses for Mac clones, suicides at Foxconn, restrictions on getting apps on iTunes, removing fitness tracker products from their stores because they might compete with the Apple Watch, etc. -- do a search for "apple anti competitive practices")
>>
>>     You were doing fine until above. The rest of your post is indeed
>>     very relevant and useful and argues correctly for sanity instead
>>     of knee-jerk accusations (until the above assertions, of course).
>>
>>     The point is, there seems to be a fairly strident Location Tech
>>     bashing going on, and it is getting to be tiring. Let's stick to
>>     keeping OSGeo a fun, useful champion of free and open geospatial
>>     without becoming anti-anything-free, partisan and possibly irrelevant.
>>
>>     --
>>     Puneet Kishor
>>     Just Another Creative Commoner
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     Discuss mailing list
>>     [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>     http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
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Re: FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o

Marc Vloemans-3
In reply to this post by Puneet Kishor
Puneet +1


Vriendelijke groet,
Marc Vloemans


> Op 16 dec. 2015 om 17:56 heeft Puneet Kishor <[hidden email]> het volgende geschreven:
>
>
>
>> On Dec 16, 2015, at 3:07 PM, Pat Tressel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> If you want to point at a company as being the Evil Empire these days, you'd be more accurate pointing at Apple (cancelling licenses for Mac clones, suicides at Foxconn, restrictions on getting apps on iTunes, removing fitness tracker products from their stores because they might compete with the Apple Watch, etc. -- do a search for "apple anti competitive practices")
>
> You were doing fine until above. The rest of your post is indeed very relevant and useful and argues correctly for sanity instead of knee-jerk accusations (until the above assertions, of course).
>
> The point is, there seems to be a fairly strident Location Tech bashing going on, and it is getting to be tiring. Let's stick to keeping OSGeo a fun, useful champion of free and open geospatial without becoming anti-anything-free, partisan and possibly irrelevant.
>
> --
> Puneet Kishor
> Just Another Creative Commoner
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Re: FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o

Paul Ramsey
In reply to this post by Daniel Morissette
Agree w/ Daniel in all ways. We want our events to succeed, no? So we
use marketing techniques to do so. Emails and so on. And we track who
opens them so we can get better at marketing. Like any other business
trying to succeed. Mail chimp is currently convenient, in the past
other technologies were convenient (I spammed people in 2007 using a
custom perl script, because I am a God Among Men), in the future
different technologies will be convenient. But they are all going
towards making a good event.

Naturally the first targets of marketing the event will be people who
have attended past events under the same/similar umbrella. I provided
the 2007 attendance list to foss4g events for a number of years until
it had grown entirely stale. I felt good about it. I revelled in the
goodness of it.

I have spammed. I will spam again, in the service of a good cause.
That is my weakness. That is my strength.

P.



On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 7:20 AM, Daniel Morissette
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2015-12-16 10:00 AM, Venkatesh Raghavan wrote:
>>
>> On 2015/12/16 18:37, Pat Tressel wrote:
>>>
>>> MailChimp is a very popular product. If you have a provable accusation
>>> against them -- that they were acting **independently of the account
>>> administrator** to alter lists, then that would be significant. As Rob
>>> has stated, MailChimp did not do something by itself. The list was
>>> aggregated from previous lists and events in which people participated.
>>
>>
>> I have also received a similar unsolicited mail. I would like to know
>> who has authorized
>> the aggregation and usage of email address from "previous lists and
>> events in which
>> people participated". I think every event has a privacy policy and
>> e-mail address provided
>> are only to be used for communicating about the specific event and not
>> for aggregating for
>> future use.
>>
>
>
> For the record, the use of such mailing services for FOSS4G promotion is not
> new. Even FOSS4G 2015 (Seoul) used MailChimp in a very similar way, I still
> have some of their mails in my archives, and I'm sure other past events did
> as well but I didn't bother digging any further.
>
> How can you realistically expect to do outreach to new people if you only
> announce your event on osgeo-discuss?
>
> This anti-anything-locationtech-does drama is becoming boring, please let's
> get over it.
>
> --
> Daniel Morissette
> http://www.mapgears.com/
> T: +1 418-696-5056 #201
>
> http://evouala.com/ - Location Intelligence Made Easy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
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Re: FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o

Pat Tressel
In reply to this post by Puneet Kishor
Puneet --

> If you want to point at a company as being the Evil Empire these days, you'd be more accurate pointing at Apple (cancelling licenses for Mac clones, suicides at Foxconn, restrictions on getting apps on iTunes, removing fitness tracker products from their stores because they might compete with the Apple Watch, etc. -- do a search for "apple anti competitive practices")

You were doing fine until above. The rest of your post is indeed very relevant and useful and argues correctly for sanity instead of knee-jerk accusations (until the above assertions, of course).

A valid point -- I should have left that out (and almost did delete it) and kept it positive.
 
The point is, there seems to be a fairly strident Location Tech bashing going on, and it is getting to be tiring.

Ah, yes.
 
Let's stick to keeping OSGeo a fun, useful champion of free and open geospatial without becoming anti-anything-free, partisan and possibly irrelevant.

^^ This ^^  ;-)

Massimiliano --

You misunderstood or probably i didn't explained myself.

I'm not against any proprietary software or company. I use google and agree to accept their term of use.

Ok.  It sounded like accusations against those companies.  The main point was that MailChimp did not do anything mysterious or underhanded.  Suggestion for future:  Just ask "how did I get on these lists" (or whatever), and you'll get the answer without the Sturm und Drang.  :D

-- Pat


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Re: FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o

Arnulf Christl-3
In reply to this post by Paul Ramsey
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Paul, Daniel,
thanks.

+1

Arnulf (OSGeo President Emeritus)

On 16.12.2015 18:16, Paul Ramsey wrote:

> Agree w/ Daniel in all ways. We want our events to succeed, no? So we
> use marketing techniques to do so. Emails and so on. And we track who
> opens them so we can get better at marketing. Like any other business
> trying to succeed. Mail chimp is currently convenient, in the past
> other technologies were convenient (I spammed people in 2007 using a
> custom perl script, because I am a God Among Men), in the future
> different technologies will be convenient. But they are all going
> towards making a good event.
>
> Naturally the first targets of marketing the event will be people who
> have attended past events under the same/similar umbrella. I provided
> the 2007 attendance list to foss4g events for a number of years until
> it had grown entirely stale. I felt good about it. I revelled in the
> goodness of it.
>
> I have spammed. I will spam again, in the service of a good cause.
> That is my weakness. That is my strength.
>
> P.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 7:20 AM, Daniel Morissette
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 2015-12-16 10:00 AM, Venkatesh Raghavan wrote:
>>>
>>> On 2015/12/16 18:37, Pat Tressel wrote:
>>>>
>>>> MailChimp is a very popular product. If you have a provable accusat
ion
>>>> against them -- that they were acting **independently of the accoun
t
>>>> administrator** to alter lists, then that would be significant. As
Rob
>>>> has stated, MailChimp did not do something by itself. The list was
>>>> aggregated from previous lists and events in which people participa
ted.
>>>
>>>
>>> I have also received a similar unsolicited mail. I would like to kno
w
>>> who has authorized
>>> the aggregation and usage of email address from "previous lists and
>>> events in which
>>> people participated". I think every event has a privacy policy and
>>> e-mail address provided
>>> are only to be used for communicating about the specific event and n
ot
>>> for aggregating for
>>> future use.
>>>
>>
>>
>> For the record, the use of such mailing services for FOSS4G promotion
 is not
>> new. Even FOSS4G 2015 (Seoul) used MailChimp in a very similar way, I
 still
>> have some of their mails in my archives, and I'm sure other past even
ts did
>> as well but I didn't bother digging any further.
>>
>> How can you realistically expect to do outreach to new people if you
only
>> announce your event on osgeo-discuss?
>>
>> This anti-anything-locationtech-does drama is becoming boring, please
 let's

>> get over it.
>>
>> --
>> Daniel Morissette
>> http://www.mapgears.com/
>> T: +1 418-696-5056 #201
>>
>> http://evouala.com/ - Location Intelligence Made Easy
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>


- --
Arnulf Christl (Director)
The metaspatial Institute Certification:
Open Source - Open Data - Open Standards
http://www.metaspatial.net/en/institute
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Re: NSA - Someone is swatting you :-o

Arnulf Christl-3
In reply to this post by Jorge Gustavo Rocha-2
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi Jorge,
go back coding. Ignorance is bliss.

Regarding "what we did to him" Jeff did not really explain. This is all
he said:
https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/board/2015-December/013714.html

This must suffice.

Let's move on.


Regarding the noise on the Discuss list? Yes, it is distracting. Some
even say it is destructive. But most of it is irrelevant.


Have fun again,
7even

On 16.12.2015 16:36, Jorge Gustavo Rocha wrote:

> Hi Jeroen,
>
> Thanks for your constructive message. Ian was very constructive also.
>
> Maybe I spend too much time coding and I miss a few emails. Did Jeff
> resign? What have we done to upset him so much?
>
> Regards,
>
> Jorge Gustavo
>
> Às 13:29 de 16-12-2015, Jeroen Ticheler escreveu:
>> Thanks Ian for this email! I fully support what you are writing. It i
s
>> very much time to stop the negative sentiments around LocationTech,
>> FOSS4G conference offers that had LocationTech as a partner and so
>> forth. Constructive collaboration is all we need within OSGeo AND wit
h
>> others in the (geo-)community.
>>
>> I’ve heard negative sentiments about the FOSS4G 2017 selection proces
s.
>> As a member of the Conference Committee I would like to state here th
at
>> I am convinced the LocationTech issue was not as decisive for most
>> members as people outside the committee seem to think. It was an aspe
ct
>> discussed thoroughly, as were other aspects of the proposals.
>>
>> I hope the Face to Face meeting end of January by the OSGeo board hos
ted
>> in our GeoCat office will be constructive and positive from all angle
s.
>> But at this stage I also call upon the OSGeo Board to come forward wi
th
>> a statement that helps to unify the OSGeo community and give directio
ns.

>> There seems to be a vacuum in the leadership right now with Jeff’s
>> sudden resignation that should be filled as soon as possible.
>>
>> Greetings,
>> Jeroen
>>
>> ____________________________________________________
>> **
>> **
>> ***
>> *
>> *
>> *Try GeoCat*
>> *
>> *Bridge©
>> ***
>> *
>> An extension to ArcGIS© to instantly publish data and metadata on
>> GeoServer, MapServer, PostGIS and GeoNetwork.
>> *
>> *
>> See http://geocat.net <http://geocat.net/> for more details.
>> *
>>
>> Jeroen Ticheler
>> GeoCat bv
>> Veenderweg 13
>> 6721 WD Bennekom
>> The Netherlands
>> Tel: +31 (0)6 81286572
>> http://geocat.net
>>
>> <http://www.oxfamnovib.nl/en-home.html?language=engels>
>> <http://www.oxfamnovib.nl/en-home.html?language=engels>
>>> On 16 dec. 2015, at 12:29, Ian Edwards <[hidden email]
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>>
>>> /"there seems to be a fairly strident Location Tech bashing going on
"/
>>>
>>> This negative "bashing" of other organisations has to completely sto
p
>>> because it is having a massive negative impact on OSGeo.
>>>
>>> We've recently lost a respected former board member (who has resigne
d
>>> his charter member status) and the OSGeo president, both in relation
>>> to how we've conducted ourselves in relation to other organisations
in
>>> the community.  These internal losses are not due to there being oth
er
>>> organisations in the geospatial world, nor how they are acting - but
>>> instead our losses are due to how we ourselves are thinking and
>>> behaving.
>>>
>>> OSGeo should positively support all elements of the geospatial
>>> community including users, developers and also other organisations t
o
>>> the fullest and best of our ability.  By doing this we become strong
er
>>> (instead of weaker) and will remain useful, relevant and of interest
>>> to the community who will continue to invest their energy and effort
s
>>> with us and recognise our unique value and position.
>>>
>>> In relation to LocationTech - similar divisions exist across the
>>> entire Open Source world (take a look at LibreOffice and OpenOffice,
>>> or MariaDB and MySQL).  The broard "FOSS4G" community (encompassing
>>> both OSGeo and LocationTech) is not alone in facing this, and my hop
e
>>> is that OSGeo can once again be a beacon to the rest of the open
>>> source world and show how best to embrace these differences,
>>> understand the strengths and weakness in both camps, and work togeth
er

>>> for the positive benefit of our diverse community.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ian Edwards
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Puneet Kishor <[hidden email]
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     > On Dec 16, 2015, at 3:07 PM, Pat Tressel <[hidden email]
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>>     >
>>>     > If you want to point at a company as being the Evil Empire
>>> these days, you'd be more accurate pointing at Apple (cancelling
>>> licenses for Mac clones, suicides at Foxconn, restrictions on gettin
g
>>> apps on iTunes, removing fitness tracker products from their stores
>>> because they might compete with the Apple Watch, etc. -- do a search
>>> for "apple anti competitive practices")
>>>
>>>     You were doing fine until above. The rest of your post is indeed
>>>     very relevant and useful and argues correctly for sanity instead
>>>     of knee-jerk accusations (until the above assertions, of course)
.

>>>
>>>     The point is, there seems to be a fairly strident Location Tech
>>>     bashing going on, and it is getting to be tiring. Let's stick to
>>>     keeping OSGeo a fun, useful champion of free and open geospatial
>>>     without becoming anti-anything-free, partisan and possibly
>>> irrelevant.
>>>
>>>     --
>>>     Puneet Kishor
>>>     Just Another Creative Commoner
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>     Discuss mailing list
>>>     [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>>     http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Discuss mailing list
>>> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss


- --
Arnulf Christl (Director)
The metaspatial Institute Certification:
Open Source - Open Data - Open Standards
http://www.metaspatial.net/en/institute
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