Clarifying access to non geographical datas

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Clarifying access to non geographical datas

Régis Haubourg
Hi all, i would like to have your feedbacks on that point, before asking new features. After some QGIS initiation courses, it clearly appeared to me that GUI readability to access to attribute data should be improved. In this redmine ticket, #3631, one asked to allow 'add delimited text' plugin to add non geographic data. I do agree with that need since newcoming users can't find by themselmves that the "Add vector layer" also serves csv data without geometry. It also is confusing that QGis Browser shows a polygon vector layer on csv file since OGR doesn't allow to choose geometric field. New spreadsheetformats are now also supported like XLS , ODS.. and so on. For us, it is really important since it was one of the most uses functionnalities in Mapinfo, and one that still prevent us to uninstall it. IMHO, the import dialog present in "add delimited text plugin" is really clear, and deserves to be extended to other non typed datasources: -Sample view is really a time saving feature to check if everything goes well. I really think that would be useful for xls and ODS too. (check enconding, check if formulas are well imported, check import area) - User should be able to import csv or spreadsheet format without geographical fields (use with table joins) - All csv or spreadsheet format do no control data types so it would be necessary to allow user to choose data types for each fields (like access or OOo does). - For excel and ods, it would be nice to allow to change import area (A1 - B52 ofr example) like Mapinfo does. - Dialog to choose file encoding is missing also All those requirement could be one "Add attribute data" button and dialog, more readable than a plugin icon or a csv file filter in OGR. It should also be plugged after OGR access to csv, either from "add vector layer" or from Browser. What do you think of that? PS: Another option would be to rethink the whole "manage Layers toolbar" because it starts to be crowded (vector, raster, 3 databases , 3 OGC). Netbook and touchpad user would probably like more unified access? (like in Mapinfo or Arcgis? ) régis
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Re: Clarifying access to non geographical datas

Giovanni Manghi-2
On Fri, 2012-07-06 at 07:31 -0700, haubourg wrote:
> Hi all, i would like to have your feedbacks on that point, before
> asking new features.

I agree, an explicit "add table" button should be added.

cheers

-- Giovanni --

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Re: Clarifying access to non geographical datas

Nathan Woodrow
I agree that the current solution is not ideal.  I did some mockups of
an idea I had during the last hackfest.  Which can be found here[0]
and here[1].  It would unify all the open logic into a single dialog
and save space on the tool bar.

[0] http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6170988/open%20dialog%20with%20csv.png
[1] http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6170988/filter.png

- Nathan

On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 7:32 PM, Giovanni Manghi
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Fri, 2012-07-06 at 07:31 -0700, haubourg wrote:
>> Hi all, i would like to have your feedbacks on that point, before
>> asking new features.
>
> I agree, an explicit "add table" button should be added.
>
> cheers
>
> -- Giovanni --
>
> _______________________________________________
> Qgis-developer mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
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Re: Clarifying access to non geographical datas

giohappy
Very good Nathan. I totally support the idea!

giovanni

2012/7/10 Nathan Woodrow <[hidden email]>
I agree that the current solution is not ideal.  I did some mockups of
an idea I had during the last hackfest.  Which can be found here[0]
and here[1].  It would unify all the open logic into a single dialog
and save space on the tool bar.

[0] http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6170988/open%20dialog%20with%20csv.png
[1] http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6170988/filter.png

- Nathan

On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 7:32 PM, Giovanni Manghi
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Fri, 2012-07-06 at 07:31 -0700, haubourg wrote:
>> Hi all, i would like to have your feedbacks on that point, before
>> asking new features.
>
> I agree, an explicit "add table" button should be added.
>
> cheers
>
> -- Giovanni --
>
> _______________________________________________
> Qgis-developer mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
_______________________________________________
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Re: Clarifying access to non geographical datas

pcav
In reply to this post by Nathan Woodrow
Il 10/07/2012 12:47, Nathan Woodrow ha scritto:
> I agree that the current solution is not ideal.  I did some mockups of
> an idea I had during the last hackfest.  Which can be found here[0]
> and here[1].  It would unify all the open logic into a single dialog
> and save space on the tool bar.
>
> [0] http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6170988/open%20dialog%20with%20csv.png
> [1] http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6170988/filter.png

looks good to me, thanks.

--
Paolo Cavallini - Faunalia
www.faunalia.eu
Full contact details at www.faunalia.eu/pc
Nuovi corsi QGIS e PostGIS: http://www.faunalia.it/calendario
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Re: Clarifying access to non geographical datas

Vincent Picavet (ml)
In reply to this post by Nathan Woodrow
Hi Nathan,
You're my hero !
I dream of a unified single «Add data» button / menu entry at night ! Users
don't care about «add shapefile» «add raster» «add anotherformatentry». They
just want to add data to the map. Let's rationalize all that.

Le mardi 10 juillet 2012 12:47:11, Nathan Woodrow a écrit :
> I agree that the current solution is not ideal.  I did some mockups of
> an idea I had during the last hackfest.  Which can be found here[0]
> and here[1].  It would unify all the open logic into a single dialog
> and save space on the tool bar.


The design you propose seems really nice. Reusing the browser is a really good
idea.
Let's do it !
Vincent

>
> [0] http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6170988/open%20dialog%20with%20csv.png
> [1] http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6170988/filter.png
>
> - Nathan
>
> On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 7:32 PM, Giovanni Manghi
>
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On Fri, 2012-07-06 at 07:31 -0700, haubourg wrote:
> >> Hi all, i would like to have your feedbacks on that point, before
> >> asking new features.
> >
> > I agree, an explicit "add table" button should be added.
> >
> > cheers
> >
> > -- Giovanni --
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Qgis-developer mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Qgis-developer mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
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Re: Clarifying access to non geographical datas

Régis Haubourg
I really like your unified GUI Nathan!  Nice..
I would just add a small place for csv data overview (popup window?) and character encoding listbox.

Anoter idea: An option to display all files (*.*) in folders would be nice too. For example, there is no filter today to access xls datas, but gdal already serves it. We still need a way to access physical files for such cases. Thoughts?
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Re: Clarifying access to non geographical datas

Nathan Woodrow
Yeah I think having a show all files would be a good option.   My main
goal for the dialog is to do a way with as much of the filesystem feel
as possible (but not removing it completely) because IMO there is has
always been this divide in GIS software with the file system on one
side, which people are comfortable with and understand (to some
extent); and then there is the "other stuff" like databases, web
services which normally you have to access a different way which makes
people uncomfortable. Why should we treat them differently?  This is
my attempt to remove some of that feel. It borrows strongly from the
QBrowser idea, in fact would be good implemented as a sub set of that.

The key difference to the QBrowser is that the tree on the left is
only the root nodes (connection nodes) not the layers like in the
browser.  Clicking on a node, or parent node, would show all the
layers in that source on the right. This means you are not scrolling
up and down to load layers from different sources.  If I expand a
folder with 100 layers in QBrowser I now can't see my other
connections at a glance, but QBrowser and my dialog mockup serve a
different purpose.

I have to express though this is only a rough mockup and there is no
code backing it, and I haven't even tried to begin working on it as it
is above my current skill level in order to do it correctly.

- Nathan

On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 10:02 PM, haubourg
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> I really like your unified GUI Nathan!  Nice..
> I would just add a small place for csv data overview (popup window?) and
> character encoding listbox.
>
> Anoter idea: An option to display all files (*.*) in folders would be nice
> too. For example, there is no filter today to access xls datas, but gdal
> already serves it. We still need a way to access physical files for such
> cases. Thoughts?
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://osgeo-org.1560.n6.nabble.com/Clarifying-access-to-non-geographical-datas-tp4986567p4987280.html
> Sent from the Quantum GIS - Developer mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> _______________________________________________
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Re: Clarifying access to non geographical datas

Etienne Tourigny-3
In reply to this post by Vincent Picavet (ml)
I thinks it's a great idea also.

Here is a simple modification (screenshot attached) which could keep
the buttons in the toolbar but merge them into one pop-up button. This
saves a lot of space and keeps existing functionality.  The icon is
not great, just a first stab.

Nathan's browser button could be placed next to that.

Etienne


On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 8:48 AM, Vincent Picavet
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Nathan,
> You're my hero !
> I dream of a unified single «Add data» button / menu entry at night ! Users
> don't care about «add shapefile» «add raster» «add anotherformatentry». They
> just want to add data to the map. Let's rationalize all that.
>
> Le mardi 10 juillet 2012 12:47:11, Nathan Woodrow a écrit :
>> I agree that the current solution is not ideal.  I did some mockups of
>> an idea I had during the last hackfest.  Which can be found here[0]
>> and here[1].  It would unify all the open logic into a single dialog
>> and save space on the tool bar.
>
>
> The design you propose seems really nice. Reusing the browser is a really good
> idea.
> Let's do it !
> Vincent
>
>>
>> [0] http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6170988/open%20dialog%20with%20csv.png
>> [1] http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6170988/filter.png
>>
>> - Nathan
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 7:32 PM, Giovanni Manghi
>>
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > On Fri, 2012-07-06 at 07:31 -0700, haubourg wrote:
>> >> Hi all, i would like to have your feedbacks on that point, before
>> >> asking new features.
>> >
>> > I agree, an explicit "add table" button should be added.
>> >
>> > cheers
>> >
>> > -- Giovanni --
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Qgis-developer mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Qgis-developer mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
> _______________________________________________
> Qgis-developer mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer

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Re: Clarifying access to non geographical datas

Nathan Woodrow
We tried the merge into one button idea once and lets just say it
didn't go down too well with the users :)

- Nathan

On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 10:38 PM, Etienne Tourigny
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> I thinks it's a great idea also.
>
> Here is a simple modification (screenshot attached) which could keep
> the buttons in the toolbar but merge them into one pop-up button. This
> saves a lot of space and keeps existing functionality.  The icon is
> not great, just a first stab.
>
> Nathan's browser button could be placed next to that.
>
> Etienne
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 8:48 AM, Vincent Picavet
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi Nathan,
>> You're my hero !
>> I dream of a unified single «Add data» button / menu entry at night ! Users
>> don't care about «add shapefile» «add raster» «add anotherformatentry». They
>> just want to add data to the map. Let's rationalize all that.
>>
>> Le mardi 10 juillet 2012 12:47:11, Nathan Woodrow a écrit :
>>> I agree that the current solution is not ideal.  I did some mockups of
>>> an idea I had during the last hackfest.  Which can be found here[0]
>>> and here[1].  It would unify all the open logic into a single dialog
>>> and save space on the tool bar.
>>
>>
>> The design you propose seems really nice. Reusing the browser is a really good
>> idea.
>> Let's do it !
>> Vincent
>>
>>>
>>> [0] http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6170988/open%20dialog%20with%20csv.png
>>> [1] http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6170988/filter.png
>>>
>>> - Nathan
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 7:32 PM, Giovanni Manghi
>>>
>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> > On Fri, 2012-07-06 at 07:31 -0700, haubourg wrote:
>>> >> Hi all, i would like to have your feedbacks on that point, before
>>> >> asking new features.
>>> >
>>> > I agree, an explicit "add table" button should be added.
>>> >
>>> > cheers
>>> >
>>> > -- Giovanni --
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Qgis-developer mailing list
>>> > [hidden email]
>>> > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Qgis-developer mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
>> _______________________________________________
>> Qgis-developer mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Qgis-developer mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
>
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Re: Clarifying access to non geographical datas

Etienne Tourigny-3
How long ago was that?

Now there are 10 buttons in the Layers Toolbar (8 of which are for
adding new layers) - which I think is a lot of clutter. I personally
shrink that toolbar to just a few icons.

Etienne

On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 9:40 AM, Nathan Woodrow <[hidden email]> wrote:

> We tried the merge into one button idea once and lets just say it
> didn't go down too well with the users :)
>
> - Nathan
>
> On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 10:38 PM, Etienne Tourigny
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I thinks it's a great idea also.
>>
>> Here is a simple modification (screenshot attached) which could keep
>> the buttons in the toolbar but merge them into one pop-up button. This
>> saves a lot of space and keeps existing functionality.  The icon is
>> not great, just a first stab.
>>
>> Nathan's browser button could be placed next to that.
>>
>> Etienne
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 8:48 AM, Vincent Picavet
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Hi Nathan,
>>> You're my hero !
>>> I dream of a unified single «Add data» button / menu entry at night ! Users
>>> don't care about «add shapefile» «add raster» «add anotherformatentry». They
>>> just want to add data to the map. Let's rationalize all that.
>>>
>>> Le mardi 10 juillet 2012 12:47:11, Nathan Woodrow a écrit :
>>>> I agree that the current solution is not ideal.  I did some mockups of
>>>> an idea I had during the last hackfest.  Which can be found here[0]
>>>> and here[1].  It would unify all the open logic into a single dialog
>>>> and save space on the tool bar.
>>>
>>>
>>> The design you propose seems really nice. Reusing the browser is a really good
>>> idea.
>>> Let's do it !
>>> Vincent
>>>
>>>>
>>>> [0] http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6170988/open%20dialog%20with%20csv.png
>>>> [1] http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6170988/filter.png
>>>>
>>>> - Nathan
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 7:32 PM, Giovanni Manghi
>>>>
>>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> > On Fri, 2012-07-06 at 07:31 -0700, haubourg wrote:
>>>> >> Hi all, i would like to have your feedbacks on that point, before
>>>> >> asking new features.
>>>> >
>>>> > I agree, an explicit "add table" button should be added.
>>>> >
>>>> > cheers
>>>> >
>>>> > -- Giovanni --
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > Qgis-developer mailing list
>>>> > [hidden email]
>>>> > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Qgis-developer mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Qgis-developer mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Qgis-developer mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
>>
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Re: Clarifying access to non geographical datas

Martin Dobias
In reply to this post by Nathan Woodrow
On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 2:29 PM, Nathan Woodrow <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Yeah I think having a show all files would be a good option.   My main
> goal for the dialog is to do a way with as much of the filesystem feel
> as possible (but not removing it completely) because IMO there is has
> always been this divide in GIS software with the file system on one
> side, which people are comfortable with and understand (to some
> extent); and then there is the "other stuff" like databases, web
> services which normally you have to access a different way which makes
> people uncomfortable. Why should we treat them differently?  This is
> my attempt to remove some of that feel. It borrows strongly from the
> QBrowser idea, in fact would be good implemented as a sub set of that.
>
> The key difference to the QBrowser is that the tree on the left is
> only the root nodes (connection nodes) not the layers like in the
> browser.  Clicking on a node, or parent node, would show all the
> layers in that source on the right. This means you are not scrolling
> up and down to load layers from different sources.  If I expand a
> folder with 100 layers in QBrowser I now can't see my other
> connections at a glance, but QBrowser and my dialog mockup serve a
> different purpose.

Right I think ultimately QBrowser should be the actual "open layer"
dialog (or with just minimal differences - e.g. with management of
layers)... when we were working on it we had this use case in mind.
QBrowser itself is just a small amount of code, everything else is in
the core and providers, so that the code can be reused. The browser
tree should have an internal option not to show layers, they would be
shown separately like in windows file manager.

The unified add layer dialog has some fundamental parts solved, though
there are still various tiny things that need attention - typically
various provider-specific options - whether to list non-spatial
tables, whether to list tables not in geometry_columns, what encoding
to use when opening shapefiles, how to specify style of wms layers,
how to present wms tilesets, how to set primary key for views and so
on...

Martin
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Re: Clarifying access to non geographical datas

Vincent Picavet (ml)
In reply to this post by Etienne Tourigny-3
Hi,

Le mardi 10 juillet 2012 14:47:19, Etienne Tourigny a écrit :
> Now there are 10 buttons in the Layers Toolbar (8 of which are for
> adding new layers) - which I think is a lot of clutter. I personally
> shrink that toolbar to just a few icons.
Having icons for opening layers of different kind is really useless, just
leading the user to have to think about the format he wants to load before
taking action. That's not a clear way of doing things, most of the time a user
do not know nothing about data format, and even not the difference between
raster and vector. They want to «Add data» that's all.
So let's kill those buttons and replace them with a single «add data» one !
My 2 cents
Vincent

>
> Etienne
>
> On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 9:40 AM, Nathan Woodrow <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > We tried the merge into one button idea once and lets just say it
> > didn't go down too well with the users :)
> >
> > - Nathan
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 10:38 PM, Etienne Tourigny
> >
> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> I thinks it's a great idea also.
> >>
> >> Here is a simple modification (screenshot attached) which could keep
> >> the buttons in the toolbar but merge them into one pop-up button. This
> >> saves a lot of space and keeps existing functionality.  The icon is
> >> not great, just a first stab.
> >>
> >> Nathan's browser button could be placed next to that.
> >>
> >> Etienne
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 8:48 AM, Vincent Picavet
> >>
> >> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>> Hi Nathan,
> >>> You're my hero !
> >>> I dream of a unified single «Add data» button / menu entry at night !
> >>> Users don't care about «add shapefile» «add raster» «add
> >>> anotherformatentry». They just want to add data to the map. Let's
> >>> rationalize all that.
> >>>
> >>> Le mardi 10 juillet 2012 12:47:11, Nathan Woodrow a écrit :
> >>>> I agree that the current solution is not ideal.  I did some mockups of
> >>>> an idea I had during the last hackfest.  Which can be found here[0]
> >>>> and here[1].  It would unify all the open logic into a single dialog
> >>>> and save space on the tool bar.
> >>>
> >>> The design you propose seems really nice. Reusing the browser is a
> >>> really good idea.
> >>> Let's do it !
> >>> Vincent
> >>>
> >>>> [0] http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6170988/open%20dialog%20with%20csv.png
> >>>> [1] http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6170988/filter.png
> >>>>
> >>>> - Nathan
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 7:32 PM, Giovanni Manghi
> >>>>
> >>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>> > On Fri, 2012-07-06 at 07:31 -0700, haubourg wrote:
> >>>> >> Hi all, i would like to have your feedbacks on that point, before
> >>>> >> asking new features.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > I agree, an explicit "add table" button should be added.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > cheers
> >>>> >
> >>>> > -- Giovanni --
> >>>> >
> >>>> > _______________________________________________
> >>>> > Qgis-developer mailing list
> >>>> > [hidden email]
> >>>> > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Qgis-developer mailing list
> >>>> [hidden email]
> >>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Qgis-developer mailing list
> >>> [hidden email]
> >>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Qgis-developer mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
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Re: Clarifying access to non geographical datas

Giovanni Manghi-2
In reply to this post by Nathan Woodrow
On Tue, 2012-07-10 at 22:40 +1000, Nathan Woodrow wrote:
> We tried the merge into one button idea once and lets just say it
> didn't go down too well with the users :)

this is strange because the "one" button is exactly what most of other
gis software has :)

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Re: Clarifying access to non geographical datas

Nathan Woodrow
Well it wasn't one button with a dialog like what I have in mind but a
single button as a drop down menu.  So it only de-cluttered the
toolbar but didn't solve the real issue of having heaps of buttons.

For me it's not the 8 buttons but rather the 8 different dialogs that
you get, this just leads to user confusion and frustration when an
option is in one but not in the other, or the UIs are similar but
different enough to make you think. UI consistency is the one thing we
should aim for when designing this kind of stuff.

You could still have 8 buttons with my dialog they would just be
shortcuts to select that root node as active e.g. Clicking Open
PostGIS Layer would open the dialog and select the PostGIS root node,
but this is just a waste of space IMO.

- Nathan

On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 10:57 PM, Giovanni Manghi
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Tue, 2012-07-10 at 22:40 +1000, Nathan Woodrow wrote:
>> We tried the merge into one button idea once and lets just say it
>> didn't go down too well with the users :)
>
> this is strange because the "one" button is exactly what most of other
> gis software has :)
>
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Re: Clarifying access to non geographical datas

ouleyang
In reply to this post by Vincent Picavet (ml)
But then problems await down the road, when users do not understand why
some functionalities are sometimes possible, sometimes not possible. The
ultimate goal would be to implement everything for all providers, of
course, but this is a long term objective.

On 07/10/2012 08:57 PM, Vincent Picavet wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Le mardi 10 juillet 2012 14:47:19, Etienne Tourigny a écrit :
>> Now there are 10 buttons in the Layers Toolbar (8 of which are for
>> adding new layers) - which I think is a lot of clutter. I personally
>> shrink that toolbar to just a few icons.
> Having icons for opening layers of different kind is really useless, just
> leading the user to have to think about the format he wants to load before
> taking action. That's not a clear way of doing things, most of the time a user
> do not know nothing about data format, and even not the difference between
> raster and vector. They want to «Add data» that's all.
> So let's kill those buttons and replace them with a single «add data» one !
> My 2 cents
> Vincent
>
>>
>> Etienne
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 9:40 AM, Nathan Woodrow <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> We tried the merge into one button idea once and lets just say it
>>> didn't go down too well with the users :)
>>>
>>> - Nathan
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 10:38 PM, Etienne Tourigny
>>>
>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> I thinks it's a great idea also.
>>>>
>>>> Here is a simple modification (screenshot attached) which could keep
>>>> the buttons in the toolbar but merge them into one pop-up button. This
>>>> saves a lot of space and keeps existing functionality.  The icon is
>>>> not great, just a first stab.
>>>>
>>>> Nathan's browser button could be placed next to that.
>>>>
>>>> Etienne
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 8:48 AM, Vincent Picavet
>>>>
>>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Nathan,
>>>>> You're my hero !
>>>>> I dream of a unified single «Add data» button / menu entry at night !
>>>>> Users don't care about «add shapefile» «add raster» «add
>>>>> anotherformatentry». They just want to add data to the map. Let's
>>>>> rationalize all that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Le mardi 10 juillet 2012 12:47:11, Nathan Woodrow a écrit :
>>>>>> I agree that the current solution is not ideal.  I did some mockups of
>>>>>> an idea I had during the last hackfest.  Which can be found here[0]
>>>>>> and here[1].  It would unify all the open logic into a single dialog
>>>>>> and save space on the tool bar.
>>>>>
>>>>> The design you propose seems really nice. Reusing the browser is a
>>>>> really good idea.
>>>>> Let's do it !
>>>>> Vincent
>>>>>
>>>>>> [0] http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6170988/open%20dialog%20with%20csv.png
>>>>>> [1] http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6170988/filter.png
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Nathan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 7:32 PM, Giovanni Manghi
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Fri, 2012-07-06 at 07:31 -0700, haubourg wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi all, i would like to have your feedbacks on that point, before
>>>>>>>> asking new features.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree, an explicit "add table" button should be added.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> cheers
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- Giovanni --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Qgis-developer mailing list
>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Qgis-developer mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Qgis-developer mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Qgis-developer mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
> _______________________________________________
> Qgis-developer mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
>
>

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Re: Clarifying access to non geographical datas

ouleyang
In reply to this post by Etienne Tourigny-3
I like it ! I never use these icons right now, because it would mean
going one by one over them and wait for the mouseover popup until I find
the one I want.

On 07/10/2012 08:38 PM, Etienne Tourigny wrote:

> I thinks it's a great idea also.
>
> Here is a simple modification (screenshot attached) which could keep
> the buttons in the toolbar but merge them into one pop-up button. This
> saves a lot of space and keeps existing functionality.  The icon is
> not great, just a first stab.
>
> Nathan's browser button could be placed next to that.
>
> Etienne
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 8:48 AM, Vincent Picavet
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi Nathan,
>> You're my hero !
>> I dream of a unified single «Add data» button / menu entry at night ! Users
>> don't care about «add shapefile» «add raster» «add anotherformatentry». They
>> just want to add data to the map. Let's rationalize all that.
>>
>> Le mardi 10 juillet 2012 12:47:11, Nathan Woodrow a écrit :
>>> I agree that the current solution is not ideal.  I did some mockups of
>>> an idea I had during the last hackfest.  Which can be found here[0]
>>> and here[1].  It would unify all the open logic into a single dialog
>>> and save space on the tool bar.
>>
>>
>> The design you propose seems really nice. Reusing the browser is a really good
>> idea.
>> Let's do it !
>> Vincent
>>
>>>
>>> [0] http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6170988/open%20dialog%20with%20csv.png
>>> [1] http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6170988/filter.png
>>>
>>> - Nathan
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 7:32 PM, Giovanni Manghi
>>>
>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 2012-07-06 at 07:31 -0700, haubourg wrote:
>>>>> Hi all, i would like to have your feedbacks on that point, before
>>>>> asking new features.
>>>>
>>>> I agree, an explicit "add table" button should be added.
>>>>
>>>> cheers
>>>>
>>>> -- Giovanni --
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Qgis-developer mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Qgis-developer mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
>> _______________________________________________
>> Qgis-developer mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Qgis-developer mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer

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Re: Clarifying access to non geographical datas

pcav
In reply to this post by Nathan Woodrow
Il 10/07/2012 15:05, Nathan Woodrow ha scritto:
> different enough to make you think. UI consistency is the one thing we
> should aim for when designing this kind of stuff.

+1, an important goal IMHO

--
Paolo Cavallini - Faunalia
www.faunalia.eu
Full contact details at www.faunalia.eu/pc
Nuovi corsi QGIS e PostGIS: http://www.faunalia.it/calendario
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Re: Clarifying access to non geographical datas

Andreas Neumann-4
In reply to this post by Vincent Picavet (ml)
 I agree. I always hide this "Manage Layers" toolbar when I start from a
 new QGIS installation. I use the menu instead. The toolbar wastes just
 too much screen space in my opinion. Maybe we should hide it by default?

 I like the idea of having a drop-down button. It could be included in
 the other toolbar called "File". It would fit in this toolbar since it
 deals with saving, loading and file references.

 Just my two cents,
 Andreas

 On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 14:57:02 +0200, Vincent Picavet wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Le mardi 10 juillet 2012 14:47:19, Etienne Tourigny a écrit :
>> Now there are 10 buttons in the Layers Toolbar (8 of which are for
>> adding new layers) - which I think is a lot of clutter. I personally
>> shrink that toolbar to just a few icons.
> Having icons for opening layers of different kind is really useless,
> just
> leading the user to have to think about the format he wants to load
> before
> taking action. That's not a clear way of doing things, most of the
> time a user
> do not know nothing about data format, and even not the difference
> between
> raster and vector. They want to «Add data» that's all.
> So let's kill those buttons and replace them with a single «add data»
> one !
> My 2 cents
> Vincent
>
>>
>> Etienne
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 9:40 AM, Nathan Woodrow
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > We tried the merge into one button idea once and lets just say it
>> > didn't go down too well with the users :)
>> >
>> > - Nathan
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 10:38 PM, Etienne Tourigny
>> >
>> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >> I thinks it's a great idea also.
>> >>
>> >> Here is a simple modification (screenshot attached) which could
>> keep
>> >> the buttons in the toolbar but merge them into one pop-up button.
>> This
>> >> saves a lot of space and keeps existing functionality.  The icon
>> is
>> >> not great, just a first stab.
>> >>
>> >> Nathan's browser button could be placed next to that.
>> >>
>> >> Etienne
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 8:48 AM, Vincent Picavet
>> >>
>> >> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>> Hi Nathan,
>> >>> You're my hero !
>> >>> I dream of a unified single «Add data» button / menu entry at
>> night !
>> >>> Users don't care about «add shapefile» «add raster» «add
>> >>> anotherformatentry». They just want to add data to the map.
>> Let's
>> >>> rationalize all that.
>> >>>
>> >>> Le mardi 10 juillet 2012 12:47:11, Nathan Woodrow a écrit :
>> >>>> I agree that the current solution is not ideal.  I did some
>> mockups of
>> >>>> an idea I had during the last hackfest.  Which can be found
>> here[0]
>> >>>> and here[1].  It would unify all the open logic into a single
>> dialog
>> >>>> and save space on the tool bar.
>> >>>
>> >>> The design you propose seems really nice. Reusing the browser is
>> a
>> >>> really good idea.
>> >>> Let's do it !
>> >>> Vincent
>> >>>
>> >>>> [0]
>> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6170988/open%20dialog%20with%20csv.png
>> >>>> [1] http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6170988/filter.png
>> >>>>
>> >>>> - Nathan
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 7:32 PM, Giovanni Manghi
>> >>>>
>> >>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>>> > On Fri, 2012-07-06 at 07:31 -0700, haubourg wrote:
>> >>>> >> Hi all, i would like to have your feedbacks on that point,
>> before
>> >>>> >> asking new features.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > I agree, an explicit "add table" button should be added.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > cheers
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > -- Giovanni --
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > _______________________________________________
>> >>>> > Qgis-developer mailing list
>> >>>> > [hidden email]
>> >>>> > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Qgis-developer mailing list
>> >>>> [hidden email]
>> >>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Qgis-developer mailing list
>> >>> [hidden email]
>> >>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Qgis-developer mailing list
>> >> [hidden email]
>> >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
> _______________________________________________
> Qgis-developer mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer

--
 --
 Andreas Neumann
 Böschacherstrasse 10A
 8624 Grüt (Gossau ZH)
 Switzerland
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Re: Clarifying access to non geographical datas

Tim Sutton-4
Hi

On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 3:47 PM, Andreas Neumann <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I agree. I always hide this "Manage Layers" toolbar when I start from a new
> QGIS installation. I use the menu instead. The toolbar wastes just too much
> screen space in my opinion. Maybe we should hide it by default?
>
> I like the idea of having a drop-down button. It could be included in the
> other toolbar called "File". It would fit in this toolbar since it deals
> with saving, loading and file references.
>

For me it makes no sense to have the dropdown - you need to do two
clicks to use an icon so we may as well just remove the manage layers
toolbar completely and let users use the menu rather (same amount of
mouse clicks plus bigger and easier target to click with the mouse).

Ultimately the unified add data dialog as presented by Nathan is what
we want though.

Regards

Tim

> Just my two cents,
> Andreas
>
>
> On Tue, 10 Jul 2012 14:57:02 +0200, Vincent Picavet wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Le mardi 10 juillet 2012 14:47:19, Etienne Tourigny a écrit :
>>>
>>> Now there are 10 buttons in the Layers Toolbar (8 of which are for
>>> adding new layers) - which I think is a lot of clutter. I personally
>>> shrink that toolbar to just a few icons.
>>
>> Having icons for opening layers of different kind is really useless, just
>> leading the user to have to think about the format he wants to load before
>> taking action. That's not a clear way of doing things, most of the
>> time a user
>> do not know nothing about data format, and even not the difference between
>> raster and vector. They want to «Add data» that's all.
>> So let's kill those buttons and replace them with a single «add data» one
>> !
>> My 2 cents
>> Vincent
>>
>>>
>>> Etienne
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 9:40 AM, Nathan Woodrow <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>> > We tried the merge into one button idea once and lets just say it
>>> > didn't go down too well with the users :)
>>> >
>>> > - Nathan
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 10:38 PM, Etienne Tourigny
>>> >
>>> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> >> I thinks it's a great idea also.
>>> >>
>>> >> Here is a simple modification (screenshot attached) which could keep
>>> >> the buttons in the toolbar but merge them into one pop-up button. This
>>> >> saves a lot of space and keeps existing functionality.  The icon is
>>> >> not great, just a first stab.
>>> >>
>>> >> Nathan's browser button could be placed next to that.
>>> >>
>>> >> Etienne
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 8:48 AM, Vincent Picavet
>>> >>
>>> >> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> >>> Hi Nathan,
>>> >>> You're my hero !
>>> >>> I dream of a unified single «Add data» button / menu entry at night !
>>> >>> Users don't care about «add shapefile» «add raster» «add
>>> >>> anotherformatentry». They just want to add data to the map. Let's
>>> >>> rationalize all that.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Le mardi 10 juillet 2012 12:47:11, Nathan Woodrow a écrit :
>>> >>>> I agree that the current solution is not ideal.  I did some mockups
>>> >>>> of
>>> >>>> an idea I had during the last hackfest.  Which can be found here[0]
>>> >>>> and here[1].  It would unify all the open logic into a single dialog
>>> >>>> and save space on the tool bar.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The design you propose seems really nice. Reusing the browser is a
>>> >>> really good idea.
>>> >>> Let's do it !
>>> >>> Vincent
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> [0] http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6170988/open%20dialog%20with%20csv.png
>>> >>>> [1] http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6170988/filter.png
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> - Nathan
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 7:32 PM, Giovanni Manghi
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> >>>> > On Fri, 2012-07-06 at 07:31 -0700, haubourg wrote:
>>> >>>> >> Hi all, i would like to have your feedbacks on that point, before
>>> >>>> >> asking new features.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > I agree, an explicit "add table" button should be added.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > cheers
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > -- Giovanni --
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> >>>> > Qgis-developer mailing list
>>> >>>> > [hidden email]
>>> >>>> > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>>> Qgis-developer mailing list
>>> >>>> [hidden email]
>>> >>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
>>> >>>
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>> Qgis-developer mailing list
>>> >>> [hidden email]
>>> >>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> Qgis-developer mailing list
>>> >> [hidden email]
>>> >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Qgis-developer mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer
>
>
> --
> --
> Andreas Neumann
> Böschacherstrasse 10A
> 8624 Grüt (Gossau ZH)
> Switzerland
>
> _______________________________________________
> Qgis-developer mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer



--
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==============================================
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