Cad-Input for QGIS prototype

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Cad-Input for QGIS prototype

olivier
Dear list,

Some times ago, on this list, we discussed[1] about real CAD-like input for QGIS, and since I do myself long for such a feature very much, I'd like to reopen that discussion by proposing a python prototype.


I know there are already a few plugins aiming in that direction (CadTools, ImprovedPolygonCapturing, NumericalInput and a few other).
They provide the functionality, but not the ease of use you can find in CAD packages.
One key aspect is that they are all specific tools, and do not work with other tools directly.


The prototype is inspired from Archicad's input method which allows to combine numeric input with mouse input in a very efficient and flexible manner, to get the best of both.
It is currently very raw and not well tested at all... It also relies on a lot of dirty hacks, since the python API is not well suited for this type of plugins (have a look at the README on the github page for more details).

GITHUB (readme, download...) : https://github.com/olivierdalang/CadInput


Please, tell me what you think :

1) Concept
- Does this kind of input seem interesting to you ?
- How does it fit in a GIS-environment ? Since it comes from a CAD environment, maybe it's more suited to designing than digitizing.

- How do you see the suggested improvements ? Are they feasible ?
- Does developing this as a python plugin make sense, or does it have to be in the core from the start ? (I'm not familiar with core developing)

3) Collaboration...
- Is anyone of you currently working on the same topic ?
- Would anyone have some time/interest in collaborating on this feature ? 

4) Other ideas are welcome !


Thanks for your attention,

Olivier




(To those from this discussion I cc'ed, I though you may be interested, I hope you don't mind)


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Re: Cad-Input for QGIS prototype

AntonioLocandro
Hi Oliver, thanks for copying me in this email
 
Let me tell you that I have installed your prototype and tested it. I do think something like this is needed and I do like the fact that it works with other tools directly. I like the fact it gives you guidelines of what it will do like in CAD software. I think it would be nice to add also the possibility to use right clicks for actions
 
To address your points
 
1) yes this feature is needed in QGIS, other COTS software have this functionality as Advanced Editing and I do rely heavily daily on this type of things for my job and is amongst several reasons why we cant switch for QGIS. I know the main user base of QGIS probably use it only for analysis but for some of us we need to digitize precisely coordinates based on field data or to create specific features.
 
I would vote to keep to make it part of core as Advanced Tools or something, I also think it would be quite nice to merge the different CAD-like tools into one and have all this contributors who made this individual plugins work as a team. Resources are not always available and to join forces to me seems a better approach
 
2) I would leave that for developers
 
3) I cant code, at least I am not at that level. I am just learning python and it might take some time to achieve a level to make something useful. I can however test the plugin and suggest features. I think the best way is to add issues in the github repository of bugs, improvements etc.
 
4) Some ideas to start with, I will add them to github so you have them there also. I understand it is a prototype to see if it gathers traction but I feel it will
 
- snap to midpoint (snapping options to behave like in CAD software)
- Add trim line
- Add extend line
- Add ability to create arcs e.g. Tan Tan Radius; select center and add radius
- Add the ability to draw by deflection angle apart from perpendicular and parallel
- Maybe add the possibility to add x,y in DMS, DM, DD when working in WGS84
- The plugin already adds the function to calculate within fields. I think one useful thing in length is that by default it is m (or the epsg default unit I guess ft might be for some) and that you can add different units by adding the appropriate abbreviation like in other COTS e.g.
 
18 ft
1 NM
1 SM
 
 

From: [hidden email]
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 03:08:27 +0100
Subject: Cad-Input for QGIS prototype
To: [hidden email]
CC: [hidden email]; [hidden email]; [hidden email]; [hidden email]

Dear list,

Some times ago, on this list, we discussed[1] about real CAD-like input for QGIS, and since I do myself long for such a feature very much, I'd like to reopen that discussion by proposing a python prototype.


I know there are already a few plugins aiming in that direction (CadTools, ImprovedPolygonCapturing, NumericalInput and a few other).
They provide the functionality, but not the ease of use you can find in CAD packages.
One key aspect is that they are all specific tools, and do not work with other tools directly.


The prototype is inspired from Archicad's input method which allows to combine numeric input with mouse input in a very efficient and flexible manner, to get the best of both.
It is currently very raw and not well tested at all... It also relies on a lot of dirty hacks, since the python API is not well suited for this type of plugins (have a look at the README on the github page for more details).

GITHUB (readme, download...) : https://github.com/olivierdalang/CadInput


Please, tell me what you think :

1) Concept
- Does this kind of input seem interesting to you ?
- How does it fit in a GIS-environment ? Since it comes from a CAD environment, maybe it's more suited to designing than digitizing.

- How do you see the suggested improvements ? Are they feasible ?
- Does developing this as a python plugin make sense, or does it have to be in the core from the start ? (I'm not familiar with core developing)

3) Collaboration...
- Is anyone of you currently working on the same topic ?
- Would anyone have some time/interest in collaborating on this feature ? 

4) Other ideas are welcome !


Thanks for your attention,

Olivier




(To those from this discussion I cc'ed, I though you may be interested, I hope you don't mind)


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Re: Cad-Input for QGIS prototype

Tim Sutton-4
In reply to this post by olivier
Hi Oliver

Wow that looks awesome! 

On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 4:08 AM, Olivier Dalang <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dear list,

Some times ago, on this list, we discussed[1] about real CAD-like input for QGIS, and since I do myself long for such a feature very much, I'd like to reopen that discussion by proposing a python prototype.


I know there are already a few plugins aiming in that direction (CadTools, ImprovedPolygonCapturing, NumericalInput and a few other).
They provide the functionality, but not the ease of use you can find in CAD packages.
One key aspect is that they are all specific tools, and do not work with other tools directly.


The prototype is inspired from Archicad's input method which allows to combine numeric input with mouse input in a very efficient and flexible manner, to get the best of both.
It is currently very raw and not well tested at all... It also relies on a lot of dirty hacks, since the python API is not well suited for this type of plugins (have a look at the README on the github page for more details).

GITHUB (readme, download...) : https://github.com/olivierdalang/CadInput


Please, tell me what you think :

1) Concept
- Does this kind of input seem interesting to you ?

Yes, yes and yes again!
 
- How does it fit in a GIS-environment ? Since it comes from a CAD environment, maybe it's more suited to designing than digitizing.


Personally I don't think we should narrowly constrain ourselves - if a tool is broadly useful to get your work done lets not constrain ourselves to whether it comes from the domain of GIS or CAD.


 

- How do you see the suggested improvements ? Are they feasible ?
- Does developing this as a python plugin make sense, or does it have to be in the core from the start ? (I'm not familiar with core developing)

I don't think it matters too much if it is in C++ or Python. One advantage of having these tools in C++ then provided to python via SIP is that the users of languages can benefit from the improvements.
 

3) Collaboration...
- Is anyone of you currently working on the same topic ?
- Would anyone have some time/interest in collaborating on this feature ? 

 
4) Other ideas are welcome ! 


Thanks for your attention,

This looks really great and I think many people will benefit from these tools.



Regards

Tim
 

Olivier




 


(To those from this discussion I cc'ed, I though you may be interested, I hope you don't mind)


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==============================================
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support questions. Using the lists will gain
more exposure for your issues and the knowledge
surrounding your issue will be shared with all.

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Re: Cad-Input for QGIS prototype

giulianc
In reply to this post by olivier
Il giorno Sun, 26 Jan 2014 03:08:27 +0100
Olivier Dalang <[hidden email]> ha scritto:

> Dear list,

Hi Olivier,

 
> Some times ago, on this list, we discussed[1] about real CAD-like
> input for QGIS, and since I do myself long for such a feature very
> much, I'd like to reopen that discussion by *proposing a python
> prototype*.
> .....
> *DEMO (video) : https://vimeo.com/85052231
> <https://vimeo.com/85052231>* *GITHUB (readme, download...) :
> https://github.com/olivierdalang/CadInput
> <https://github.com/olivierdalang/CadInput>*
 
I think this is fantastic, at least for users like me that have a CAD
background :-)


> Please, tell me what you think :
>
> 1......

> 3) Collaboration...
> - Is anyone of you currently working on the same topic ?
> - Would anyone have some time/interest in collaborating on this
> feature ?

I would to contribute my little help to your great aim :-)

 
> 4) Other ideas are welcome !

maybe;

 
> Thanks for your attention,
>
> Olivier

bye,
giuliano
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Re: Cad-Input for QGIS prototype

Bernhard Ströbl
In reply to this post by AntonioLocandro
Hi Antonio and Olivier,

I will comment below.
Olivier, thanks for the move.

Am 26.01.2014 06:05, schrieb Antonio Locandro:
> Hi Oliver, thanks for copying me in this email
>
> Let me tell you that I have installed your prototype and tested it. I do
> think something like this is needed and I do like the fact that it works
> with other tools directly. I like the fact it gives you guidelines of
> what it will do like in CAD software. I think it would be nice to add
> also the possibility to use right clicks for actions

I have not tried your plugin but watched the video. Looking at defining
an angle it should be definable relative to a) the last segment b) North
c) another (helper) point

>
> To address your points
>
> 1) yes this feature is needed in QGIS, other COTS software have this
> functionality as Advanced Editing and I do rely heavily daily on this
> type of things for my job and is amongst several reasons why we cant
> switch for QGIS. I know the main user base of QGIS probably use it only
> for analysis but for some of us we need to digitize precisely
> coordinates based on field data or to create specific features.

would be useful here, too
Although I think most CAD functions for which currently nothing similar
is available in QGIS are for construction I still think, it would be
great to have them. (Of course not those to create 3D screws :)


>
> I would vote to keep to make it part of core as Advanced Tools or
> something, I also think it would be quite nice to merge the different
> CAD-like tools into one and have all this contributors who made this
> individual plugins work as a team. Resources are not always available
> and to join forces to me seems a better approach

The digitizingTools plugin is trying a similar approach, namely to
combine efforts and present _one_ plugin.

>
> 2) I would leave that for developers
>
> 3) I cant code, at least I am not at that level. I am just learning
> python and it might take some time to achieve a level to make something
> useful. I can however test the plugin and suggest features. I think the
> best way is to add issues in the github repository of bugs, improvements
> etc.

I am working more or less continuely on digitzingTools (if need arises).
I can support in Python coding.

>
> 4) Some ideas to start with, I will add them to github so you have them
> there also. I understand it is a prototype to see if it gathers traction
> but I feel it will
>
> - snap to midpoint (snapping options to behave like in CAD software)

more easy control over snapping in general: currently snapping has to be
set for each individual layer seperately: switch snapping on/off
completely, set snapping behaviour for all layers at once (segment,
node), additional snapping options needed: snap to middle of line, snap
perpendicularly

> - Add trim line

+1
trim two lines so they form a corner

> - Add extend line

digitizingTools already offers continuing digitizing of a line (though
not CAD like in prolonging the line in the direction of its last segment)
would be great to extend several lines until they meet

> - Add ability to create arcs e.g. Tan Tan Radius; select center and add
> radius

question would be how this is to be stored in GIS format

- general: provide a means to move the map while any digitizing tool is
active. possible solutions
a) shift/ctrl + drag
b) add scrollbars (looks arkward but users at once know what to do)


my 2cts

regards

Bernhard

> - Add the ability to draw by deflection angle apart from perpendicular
> and parallel
> - Maybe add the possibility to add x,y in DMS, DM, DD when working in WGS84
> - The plugin already adds the function to calculate within fields. I
> think one useful thing in length is that by default it is m (or the epsg
> default unit I guess ft might be for some) and that you can add
> different units by adding the appropriate abbreviation like in other
> COTS e.g.
>
> 18 ft
> 1 NM
> 1 SM
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: [hidden email]
> Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 03:08:27 +0100
> Subject: Cad-Input for QGIS prototype
> To: [hidden email]
> CC: [hidden email]; [hidden email];
> [hidden email]; [hidden email]
>
> Dear list,
>
> Some times ago, on this list, we discussed[1] about real CAD-like input
> for QGIS, and since I do myself long for such a feature very much, I'd
> like to reopen that discussion by *proposing a python prototype*.
>
>
> I know there are already a few plugins aiming in that direction
> (CadTools, ImprovedPolygonCapturing, NumericalInput and a few other).
> They provide the functionality, but not the ease of use you can find in
> CAD packages.
> One key aspect is that they are all specific tools, and do not work with
> other tools directly.
>
>
> The prototype is inspired from Archicad's input method which allows to
> combine numeric input with mouse input in a very efficient and flexible
> manner, to get the best of both.
> It is currently very raw and not well tested at all... It also relies on
> a lot of dirty hacks, since the python API is not well suited for this
> type of plugins (have a look at the README on the github page for more
> details).
>
> *DEMO (video) : https://vimeo.com/85052231*
> *GITHUB (readme, download...) : https://github.com/olivierdalang/CadInput*
>
>
> Please, tell me what you think :
>
> 1) Concept
> - Does this kind of input seem interesting to you ?
> - How does it fit in a GIS-environment ? Since it comes from a CAD
> environment, maybe it's more suited to designing than digitizing.
>
> 2) API/Core modifications (read
> https://github.com/olivierdalang/CadInput#technical-notes )
> - How do you see the suggested improvements ? Are they feasible ?
> - Does developing this as a python plugin make sense, or does it have to
> be in the core from the start ? (I'm not familiar with core developing)
>
> 3) Collaboration...
> - Is anyone of you currently working on the same topic ?
> - Would anyone have some time/interest in collaborating on this feature ?
>
> 4) Other ideas are welcome !
>
>
> Thanks for your attention,
>
> Olivier
>
>
>
>
> [1]:
> http://osgeo-org.1560.x6.nabble.com/Make-QGIS-interact-with-LibreCAD-td5048565.html
>
> (To those from this discussion I cc'ed, I though you may be interested,
> I hope you don't mind)
>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET Mail Security, version of virus
> signature database 9338 (20140125) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET Mail Security.
> http://www.eset.com



__________ Information from ESET Mail Security, version of virus signature database 9340 (20140126) __________

The message was checked by ESET Mail Security.
http://www.eset.com


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Re: Cad-Input for QGIS prototype

Leyan
In reply to this post by olivier
On 01/26/2014 10:08 AM, Olivier Dalang wrote:
Dear list,

Some times ago, on this list, we discussed[1] about real CAD-like input for QGIS, and since I do myself long for such a feature very much, I'd like to reopen that discussion by proposing a python prototype.


I know there are already a few plugins aiming in that direction (CadTools, ImprovedPolygonCapturing, NumericalInput and a few other).
They provide the functionality, but not the ease of use you can find in CAD packages.
One key aspect is that they are all specific tools, and do not work with other tools directly.


The prototype is inspired from Archicad's input method which allows to combine numeric input with mouse input in a very efficient and flexible manner, to get the best of both.
It is currently very raw and not well tested at all... It also relies on a lot of dirty hacks, since the python API is not well suited for this type of plugins (have a look at the README on the github page for more details).

GITHUB (readme, download...) : https://github.com/olivierdalang/CadInput


Please, tell me what you think :

1) Concept
- Does this kind of input seem interesting to you ?
- How does it fit in a GIS-environment ? Since it comes from a CAD environment, maybe it's more suited to designing than digitizing.

- How do you see the suggested improvements ? Are they feasible ?
- Does developing this as a python plugin make sense, or does it have to be in the core from the start ? (I'm not familiar with core developing)

3) Collaboration...
- Is anyone of you currently working on the same topic ?
- Would anyone have some time/interest in collaborating on this feature ? 

4) Other ideas are welcome !



That's pretty amazing, a lot of my users are used to CAD software and want the same kind of input features. I think it should be integrated in core.

Something interesting would be the ability to measure without actually adding vertex, so that it is possible for example to start a line perpendicular to another one and 3 meters from an existing vertex.

Regards,

Leyan

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Re: Cad-Input for QGIS prototype

Neumann, Andreas
In reply to this post by Bernhard Ströbl
Hi,

It looks very useful.

I also think this should be in the core of QGIS - or before that it
would be nice if it could be integrated in Bernhards Ströbl
DigitizingTools plugin.

I hate it when I have to enable 5 different plugins to get a decent
digitizing environment. And when I teach QGIS to new users it is most
confusing if functionality is spread among too many plugins.

So if possible - please integrate such functionality in existing plugins
or into QGIS core rather than starting a new plugin.

Thanks a lot for your efforts.

Andreas

Am 27.01.2014 10:52, schrieb Bernhard Ströbl:

> Hi Antonio and Olivier,
>
> I will comment below.
> Olivier, thanks for the move.
>
> Am 26.01.2014 06:05, schrieb Antonio Locandro:
>> Hi Oliver, thanks for copying me in this email
>>
>> Let me tell you that I have installed your prototype and tested it. I do
>> think something like this is needed and I do like the fact that it works
>> with other tools directly. I like the fact it gives you guidelines of
>> what it will do like in CAD software. I think it would be nice to add
>> also the possibility to use right clicks for actions
>
> I have not tried your plugin but watched the video. Looking at defining
> an angle it should be definable relative to a) the last segment b) North
> c) another (helper) point
>
>>
>> To address your points
>>
>> 1) yes this feature is needed in QGIS, other COTS software have this
>> functionality as Advanced Editing and I do rely heavily daily on this
>> type of things for my job and is amongst several reasons why we cant
>> switch for QGIS. I know the main user base of QGIS probably use it only
>> for analysis but for some of us we need to digitize precisely
>> coordinates based on field data or to create specific features.
>
> would be useful here, too
> Although I think most CAD functions for which currently nothing similar
> is available in QGIS are for construction I still think, it would be
> great to have them. (Of course not those to create 3D screws :)
>
>
>>
>> I would vote to keep to make it part of core as Advanced Tools or
>> something, I also think it would be quite nice to merge the different
>> CAD-like tools into one and have all this contributors who made this
>> individual plugins work as a team. Resources are not always available
>> and to join forces to me seems a better approach
>
> The digitizingTools plugin is trying a similar approach, namely to
> combine efforts and present _one_ plugin.
>
>>
>> 2) I would leave that for developers
>>
>> 3) I cant code, at least I am not at that level. I am just learning
>> python and it might take some time to achieve a level to make something
>> useful. I can however test the plugin and suggest features. I think the
>> best way is to add issues in the github repository of bugs, improvements
>> etc.
>
> I am working more or less continuely on digitzingTools (if need arises).
> I can support in Python coding.
>
>>
>> 4) Some ideas to start with, I will add them to github so you have them
>> there also. I understand it is a prototype to see if it gathers traction
>> but I feel it will
>>
>> - snap to midpoint (snapping options to behave like in CAD software)
>
> more easy control over snapping in general: currently snapping has to be
> set for each individual layer seperately: switch snapping on/off
> completely, set snapping behaviour for all layers at once (segment,
> node), additional snapping options needed: snap to middle of line, snap
> perpendicularly
>
>> - Add trim line
>
> +1
> trim two lines so they form a corner
>
>> - Add extend line
>
> digitizingTools already offers continuing digitizing of a line (though
> not CAD like in prolonging the line in the direction of its last segment)
> would be great to extend several lines until they meet
>
>> - Add ability to create arcs e.g. Tan Tan Radius; select center and add
>> radius
>
> question would be how this is to be stored in GIS format
>
> - general: provide a means to move the map while any digitizing tool is
> active. possible solutions
> a) shift/ctrl + drag
> b) add scrollbars (looks arkward but users at once know what to do)
>
>
> my 2cts
>
> regards
>
> Bernhard
>
>> - Add the ability to draw by deflection angle apart from perpendicular
>> and parallel
>> - Maybe add the possibility to add x,y in DMS, DM, DD when working in
>> WGS84
>> - The plugin already adds the function to calculate within fields. I
>> think one useful thing in length is that by default it is m (or the epsg
>> default unit I guess ft might be for some) and that you can add
>> different units by adding the appropriate abbreviation like in other
>> COTS e.g.
>>
>> 18 ft
>> 1 NM
>> 1 SM
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> From: [hidden email]
>> Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 03:08:27 +0100
>> Subject: Cad-Input for QGIS prototype
>> To: [hidden email]
>> CC: [hidden email]; [hidden email];
>> [hidden email]; [hidden email]
>>
>> Dear list,
>>
>> Some times ago, on this list, we discussed[1] about real CAD-like input
>> for QGIS, and since I do myself long for such a feature very much, I'd
>> like to reopen that discussion by *proposing a python prototype*.
>>
>>
>> I know there are already a few plugins aiming in that direction
>> (CadTools, ImprovedPolygonCapturing, NumericalInput and a few other).
>> They provide the functionality, but not the ease of use you can find in
>> CAD packages.
>> One key aspect is that they are all specific tools, and do not work with
>> other tools directly.
>>
>>
>> The prototype is inspired from Archicad's input method which allows to
>> combine numeric input with mouse input in a very efficient and flexible
>> manner, to get the best of both.
>> It is currently very raw and not well tested at all... It also relies on
>> a lot of dirty hacks, since the python API is not well suited for this
>> type of plugins (have a look at the README on the github page for more
>> details).
>>
>> *DEMO (video) : https://vimeo.com/85052231*
>> *GITHUB (readme, download...) :
>> https://github.com/olivierdalang/CadInput*
>>
>>
>> Please, tell me what you think :
>>
>> 1) Concept
>> - Does this kind of input seem interesting to you ?
>> - How does it fit in a GIS-environment ? Since it comes from a CAD
>> environment, maybe it's more suited to designing than digitizing.
>>
>> 2) API/Core modifications (read
>> https://github.com/olivierdalang/CadInput#technical-notes )
>> - How do you see the suggested improvements ? Are they feasible ?
>> - Does developing this as a python plugin make sense, or does it have to
>> be in the core from the start ? (I'm not familiar with core developing)
>>
>> 3) Collaboration...
>> - Is anyone of you currently working on the same topic ?
>> - Would anyone have some time/interest in collaborating on this feature ?
>>
>> 4) Other ideas are welcome !
>>
>>
>> Thanks for your attention,
>>
>> Olivier
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [1]:
>> http://osgeo-org.1560.x6.nabble.com/Make-QGIS-interact-with-LibreCAD-td5048565.html
>>
>>
>> (To those from this discussion I cc'ed, I though you may be interested,
>> I hope you don't mind)
>>
>>
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET Mail Security, version of virus
>> signature database 9338 (20140125) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET Mail Security.
>> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET Mail Security, version of virus
> signature database 9340 (20140126) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET Mail Security.
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Qgis-developer mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer

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Re: Cad-Input for QGIS prototype

Saber Razmjooei
Auto-trace plugin might be of your interest as well. It's ready and should appear in QGIS plugin repo soon.
Cheers,
Saber


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Andreas Neumann
Sent: 27 January 2014 15:35
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Qgis-developer] Cad-Input for QGIS prototype

Hi,

It looks very useful.

I also think this should be in the core of QGIS - or before that it would be nice if it could be integrated in Bernhards Ströbl DigitizingTools plugin.

I hate it when I have to enable 5 different plugins to get a decent digitizing environment. And when I teach QGIS to new users it is most confusing if functionality is spread among too many plugins.

So if possible - please integrate such functionality in existing plugins or into QGIS core rather than starting a new plugin.

Thanks a lot for your efforts.

Andreas

Am 27.01.2014 10:52, schrieb Bernhard Ströbl:

> Hi Antonio and Olivier,
>
> I will comment below.
> Olivier, thanks for the move.
>
> Am 26.01.2014 06:05, schrieb Antonio Locandro:
>> Hi Oliver, thanks for copying me in this email
>>
>> Let me tell you that I have installed your prototype and tested it. I
>> do think something like this is needed and I do like the fact that it
>> works with other tools directly. I like the fact it gives you
>> guidelines of what it will do like in CAD software. I think it would
>> be nice to add also the possibility to use right clicks for actions
>
> I have not tried your plugin but watched the video. Looking at
> defining an angle it should be definable relative to a) the last
> segment b) North
> c) another (helper) point
>
>>
>> To address your points
>>
>> 1) yes this feature is needed in QGIS, other COTS software have this
>> functionality as Advanced Editing and I do rely heavily daily on this
>> type of things for my job and is amongst several reasons why we cant
>> switch for QGIS. I know the main user base of QGIS probably use it
>> only for analysis but for some of us we need to digitize precisely
>> coordinates based on field data or to create specific features.
>
> would be useful here, too
> Although I think most CAD functions for which currently nothing
> similar is available in QGIS are for construction I still think, it
> would be great to have them. (Of course not those to create 3D screws
> :)
>
>
>>
>> I would vote to keep to make it part of core as Advanced Tools or
>> something, I also think it would be quite nice to merge the different
>> CAD-like tools into one and have all this contributors who made this
>> individual plugins work as a team. Resources are not always available
>> and to join forces to me seems a better approach
>
> The digitizingTools plugin is trying a similar approach, namely to
> combine efforts and present _one_ plugin.
>
>>
>> 2) I would leave that for developers
>>
>> 3) I cant code, at least I am not at that level. I am just learning
>> python and it might take some time to achieve a level to make
>> something useful. I can however test the plugin and suggest features.
>> I think the best way is to add issues in the github repository of
>> bugs, improvements etc.
>
> I am working more or less continuely on digitzingTools (if need arises).
> I can support in Python coding.
>
>>
>> 4) Some ideas to start with, I will add them to github so you have
>> them there also. I understand it is a prototype to see if it gathers
>> traction but I feel it will
>>
>> - snap to midpoint (snapping options to behave like in CAD software)
>
> more easy control over snapping in general: currently snapping has to
> be set for each individual layer seperately: switch snapping on/off
> completely, set snapping behaviour for all layers at once (segment,
> node), additional snapping options needed: snap to middle of line,
> snap perpendicularly
>
>> - Add trim line
>
> +1
> trim two lines so they form a corner
>
>> - Add extend line
>
> digitizingTools already offers continuing digitizing of a line (though
> not CAD like in prolonging the line in the direction of its last
> segment) would be great to extend several lines until they meet
>
>> - Add ability to create arcs e.g. Tan Tan Radius; select center and
>> add radius
>
> question would be how this is to be stored in GIS format
>
> - general: provide a means to move the map while any digitizing tool
> is active. possible solutions
> a) shift/ctrl + drag
> b) add scrollbars (looks arkward but users at once know what to do)
>
>
> my 2cts
>
> regards
>
> Bernhard
>
>> - Add the ability to draw by deflection angle apart from
>> perpendicular and parallel
>> - Maybe add the possibility to add x,y in DMS, DM, DD when working in
>> WGS84
>> - The plugin already adds the function to calculate within fields. I
>> think one useful thing in length is that by default it is m (or the
>> epsg default unit I guess ft might be for some) and that you can add
>> different units by adding the appropriate abbreviation like in other
>> COTS e.g.
>>
>> 18 ft
>> 1 NM
>> 1 SM
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ---
>> From: [hidden email]
>> Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 03:08:27 +0100
>> Subject: Cad-Input for QGIS prototype
>> To: [hidden email]
>> CC: [hidden email]; [hidden email];
>> [hidden email]; [hidden email]
>>
>> Dear list,
>>
>> Some times ago, on this list, we discussed[1] about real CAD-like
>> input for QGIS, and since I do myself long for such a feature very
>> much, I'd like to reopen that discussion by *proposing a python prototype*.
>>
>>
>> I know there are already a few plugins aiming in that direction
>> (CadTools, ImprovedPolygonCapturing, NumericalInput and a few other).
>> They provide the functionality, but not the ease of use you can find
>> in CAD packages.
>> One key aspect is that they are all specific tools, and do not work
>> with other tools directly.
>>
>>
>> The prototype is inspired from Archicad's input method which allows
>> to combine numeric input with mouse input in a very efficient and
>> flexible manner, to get the best of both.
>> It is currently very raw and not well tested at all... It also relies
>> on a lot of dirty hacks, since the python API is not well suited for
>> this type of plugins (have a look at the README on the github page
>> for more details).
>>
>> *DEMO (video) : https://vimeo.com/85052231* *GITHUB (readme,
>> download...) :
>> https://github.com/olivierdalang/CadInput*
>>
>>
>> Please, tell me what you think :
>>
>> 1) Concept
>> - Does this kind of input seem interesting to you ?
>> - How does it fit in a GIS-environment ? Since it comes from a CAD
>> environment, maybe it's more suited to designing than digitizing.
>>
>> 2) API/Core modifications (read
>> https://github.com/olivierdalang/CadInput#technical-notes )
>> - How do you see the suggested improvements ? Are they feasible ?
>> - Does developing this as a python plugin make sense, or does it have
>> to be in the core from the start ? (I'm not familiar with core
>> developing)
>>
>> 3) Collaboration...
>> - Is anyone of you currently working on the same topic ?
>> - Would anyone have some time/interest in collaborating on this feature ?
>>
>> 4) Other ideas are welcome !
>>
>>
>> Thanks for your attention,
>>
>> Olivier
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [1]:
>> http://osgeo-org.1560.x6.nabble.com/Make-QGIS-interact-with-LibreCAD-
>> td5048565.html
>>
>>
>> (To those from this discussion I cc'ed, I though you may be
>> interested, I hope you don't mind)
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>
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Re: Cad-Input for QGIS prototype

AntonioLocandro
In reply to this post by Neumann, Andreas
May I propose we make an inventory of all the cad/digitizing plugins and their functionalities? Maybe have a google spreadsheet where we add them, their respective developers and the functions. Also maybe creating some sort of roadmap or list of desired functions?

I created a spreadsheet for the plugin developers here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aql2dM0gxEH8dHNfcjh3RGRRcFExcVFzdmxKdDhjUVE&usp=sharing feel free to edit it as you feel

And a google doc for the proposed functions/roadmap here https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OUYqdAdE7d7_fNZ-im0Uo8AAtKcOB-uO7Gu07gDNusY/edit?usp=sharing

I think if all the individual developers of all those incredible plugins worked together in this new all in one plugin this could be awesome soon
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Re: Cad-Input for QGIS prototype

giulianc
Il giorno Mon, 27 Jan 2014 13:53:02 -0800 (PST)
AntonioLocandro <[hidden email]> ha scritto:

Hi Antonio,


> ......
> And a google doc for the proposed functions/roadmap here
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OUYqdAdE7d7_fNZ-im0Uo8AAtKcOB-uO7Gu07gDNusY/edit?usp=sharing

I can edit it (adding desired functions)?

best regards,
giuliano
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Re: Cad-Input for QGIS prototype

olivier
In reply to this post by AntonioLocandro
Hi !


Thanks for all the replies !! I updated the plugin which should work on mac/linux now, please give it a try ! Do you think it's too soon to put it in the plugin repo as experimental at this stage ?


INPUT vs TOOLS

I understand one of the main concern is avoiding to have a CAD-plugins proliferation, and I totally agree.

It's quite hard to draw the line on what can be packaged in one plugin and what should rather be kept in another one.

I'd say we can distinguish between what really is about
- INPUT (coordinates, snapping, constraints, mouse, units ...)
and
- TOOLS (extend, trim, offset, rotate, create shapes ...)

In my opinion, mixing both in a unique plugin is a bad idea :
- at long term, we may want to integrate the INPUT part in QGIS's core, as keeping TOOLS part as plugins may seem more relevant (easier to extend).
- TOOLS are feature specific. Some of them will operate only on polygons, some other only on points, whereas INPUT should aim to be generally available as possible.
- it's a conceptual soup 

Of course, INPUT would allow to do some things that could also be implemented as a specific TOOL. In Autocad, for instance, you can extend/trim a line either with the extend/trim tool, or by moving a vertex and taking advantage of the snapping system. That doesn't make one of them useless.
INPUT can also enhance the way you use TOOLs. Take the rectangle-oval digitizing plugin : thanks to CadInput, you can (well, you could, if it worked better with drag-type tools) enter precise numeric input.


TOOLS plugin ideas

So I'd say packaging different CAD-tools in an unique and consistent plugin is another (urgent) task. A key point may be classification.
IMO, a good start would be a toolbar by layer type (point, line, polygon) in which all tools would be ordered/separated by funtion type (create, reshape, merge/split, modify, delete...). The available toolbar would only show when editing the corresponding layer type.
Native tools could be integrated in this classification as well.

To get a polished and consistent user experience, I think we need some solid abstract tool classes, which takes care of how input is organised in terms of UI (common interface for point/segment/object/numeric input) and logic (operands then operation, or operation then operands). The QGIS C++ tool class leaves (too) much freedom to subclasses.
A great work towards such a plugin would be to try to implement that base classe(s) in python. It would then be much easier for contributors to extend the tool set. And in the end, the base class could be implemented in C++.


Well that was it !


Regards,

Olivier


PS:

@Saber Razmjooei:
I didn't find auto-trace (guess it's not approved yet?)

@Leyan
Yes it's a good idea. There is already a construction mode which allows to enter points without creating features. It could be made available even when not using an editTool...







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Re: Cad-Input for QGIS prototype

Paolo Cavallini
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Il 29/01/2014 05:27, Olivier Dalang ha scritto:

> I didn't find auto-trace (guess it's not approved yet?)

http://plugins.qgis.org/plugins/traceDigitize/
see: http://plugins.qgis.org/plugins/tags/digitizing/
(please note: not all plugins are tagged correctly, this should be improved).

Thanks Olivier.
- --
Paolo Cavallini - www.faunalia.eu
Corsi QGIS e PostGIS: http://www.faunalia.eu/training.html
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1
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Re: Cad-Input for QGIS prototype

3nids
In reply to this post by olivier

On 29. 01. 14 05:27, Olivier Dalang wrote:
> Hi !
>
>
> Thanks for all the replies !! I updated the plugin which should work
> on mac/linux now, please give it a try ! Do you think it's too soon to
> put it in the plugin repo as experimental at this stage ?
+1 to publish, it would allow more users to test this awesome plugin!

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Re: Cad-Input for QGIS prototype

Angelos Tzotsos
In reply to this post by olivier
Hi Olivier,

This is excellent work, thank you.

+1 on uploading it as experimental.

As already stated, I also believe that we would all benefit from a common framework for digitizing/CAD plugins.
If we could merge them all into one plugin, it would be awesome, plus this could be merged into core easier.

Best,
Angelos

On 01/29/2014 06:27 AM, Olivier Dalang wrote:
Hi !


Thanks for all the replies !! I updated the plugin which should work on
mac/linux now, please give it a try ! Do you think it's too soon to put it
in the plugin repo as experimental at this stage ?


*INPUT vs TOOLS*

I understand one of the main concern is avoiding to have a CAD-plugins
proliferation, and I totally agree.

It's quite hard to draw the line on what can be packaged in one plugin and
what should rather be kept in another one.

I'd say we can distinguish between what really is about
- INPUT (coordinates, snapping, constraints, mouse, units ...)
and
- TOOLS (extend, trim, offset, rotate, create shapes ...)

In my opinion, mixing both in a unique plugin is a bad idea :
- at long term, we may want to integrate the INPUT part in QGIS's core, as
keeping TOOLS part as plugins may seem more relevant (easier to extend).
- TOOLS are feature specific. Some of them will operate only on polygons,
some other only on points, whereas INPUT should aim to be generally
available as possible.
- it's a conceptual soup

Of course, INPUT would allow to do some things that could also be
implemented as a specific TOOL. In Autocad, for instance, you can
extend/trim a line either with the extend/trim tool, or by moving a vertex
and taking advantage of the snapping system. That doesn't make one of them
useless.
INPUT can also enhance the way you use TOOLs. Take the rectangle-oval
digitizing plugin : thanks to CadInput, you can (well, you could, if it
worked better with drag-type tools) enter precise numeric input.


*TOOLS plugin ideas*

So I'd say packaging different CAD-tools in an unique and consistent plugin
is another (urgent) task. A key point may be classification.
IMO, a good start would be a toolbar by layer type (point, line, polygon)
in which all tools would be ordered/separated by funtion type (create,
reshape, merge/split, modify, delete...). The available toolbar would only
show when editing the corresponding layer type.
Native tools could be integrated in this classification as well.

To get a polished and consistent user experience, I think we need some
solid abstract tool classes, which takes care of how input is organised in
terms of UI (common interface for point/segment/object/numeric input) and
logic (operands then operation, or operation then operands). The QGIS C++
tool class leaves (too) much freedom to subclasses.
A great work towards such a plugin would be to try to implement that base
classe(s) in python. It would then be much easier for contributors to
extend the tool set. And in the end, the base class could be implemented in
C++.


Well that was it !


Regards,

Olivier


PS:

@Saber Razmjooei:
I didn't find auto-trace (guess it's not approved yet?)

@Leyan
Yes it's a good idea. There is already a construction mode which allows to
enter points without creating features. It could be made available even
when not using an editTool...



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-- 
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Remote Sensing Laboratory
National Technical University of Athens
http://users.ntua.gr/tzotsos

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Re: Cad-Input for QGIS prototype

Zoran Janković
In reply to this post by 3nids
+1 to publish

Great work, just what I needed in my everyday routine as a licensed surveyor. QGIS is one more step closer to replacing proprietary CAD application... If it were not for LISP routines, we would hardly be using 5% of CAD features anyway... And here we have Python ;-)...



________________________________________________________________________

Zoran Janković, mag. ing. geod. et geoinf.
GEO KT d.o.o.

M:      00 385 98 682 902
T:       00 385 44 629 042

Hrv. branitelja 62
44320 Kutina


On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 9:53 AM, Denis Rouzaud <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 29. 01. 14 05:27, Olivier Dalang wrote:
Hi !


Thanks for all the replies !! I updated the plugin which should work on mac/linux now, please give it a try ! Do you think it's too soon to put it in the plugin repo as experimental at this stage ?
+1 to publish, it would allow more users to test this awesome plugin!


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Re: Cad-Input for QGIS prototype

olivier
Hi !

Ok the plugin is published in the repo (with a nice icon for the occasion ;) ) ! Champagne !


@Denis

I wanted to say that if you need a hand on implementing things in the API, I can help. Although I am by far not the most advanced programmer around, I am truly interested by your development. And I'm somehow in charge of the map tools ;)

Help on the API is more than welcome ! (I'm too much of a newbie in C++ to do any serious work).

I'd say the C and D improvements suggested in the readme are the easiest and could be a good point to start.

The E improvement (an UI improvement rather than API improvement) would be welcome also (and be appreciated beyond the scope of this plugin).

I'm not sure if the A use useful, but it should be easy to implement and may be useful to other plugins.

B would probably require more work (refactoring every single map tool, unless we integrate the snapping hack as a default implementation, which I think is a very bad idea).
I'd say before doing something like this, it could be a nice idea to think about the point I made in my last post about a more rigid base class for mapTools.

Do you have a build environment? If so, while in the feature freeze period, we could work on a different branch.

Yes, so testing another branch is no problem.

By the way, was that a paid development or personal initiative?

It is a personal initiative (i'm of course open to post-work sponsoring ;) ).


Cheers,

Olivier


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Re: Cad-Input for QGIS prototype

Alexandre Neto
Olivier,

Very nice work! I'm still finding all I can do with it, but for what I have seen it's alredy proven to be very usefull!

Thanks alot!


On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Olivier Dalang <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi !

Ok the plugin is published in the repo (with a nice icon for the occasion ;) ) ! Champagne !


@Denis

I wanted to say that if you need a hand on implementing things in the API, I can help. Although I am by far not the most advanced programmer around, I am truly interested by your development. And I'm somehow in charge of the map tools ;)

Help on the API is more than welcome ! (I'm too much of a newbie in C++ to do any serious work).

I'd say the C and D improvements suggested in the readme are the easiest and could be a good point to start.

The E improvement (an UI improvement rather than API improvement) would be welcome also (and be appreciated beyond the scope of this plugin).

I'm not sure if the A use useful, but it should be easy to implement and may be useful to other plugins.

B would probably require more work (refactoring every single map tool, unless we integrate the snapping hack as a default implementation, which I think is a very bad idea).
I'd say before doing something like this, it could be a nice idea to think about the point I made in my last post about a more rigid base class for mapTools.

Do you have a build environment? If so, while in the feature freeze period, we could work on a different branch.

Yes, so testing another branch is no problem.

By the way, was that a paid development or personal initiative?

It is a personal initiative (i'm of course open to post-work sponsoring ;) ).


Cheers,

Olivier


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Re: Cad-Input for QGIS prototype

Carlos López PSIG
Hi Olivier and everyone,

I watched the video, this plugin sound good!
I've been testing this plugin, 

My computer: Window s 7 SP1 and 64 bits!

I have two comment:
1- When enable the plugin I can't use the pan pressing the space keyboard
2- Don't work block de distance

Thanks for merging the differents plugins editing.

Good job!

Regards,





Carlos López Quintanilla

www.psig.es
[hidden email]
+34 699.680.261





2014-01-30 Alexandre Neto <[hidden email]>:
Olivier,

Very nice work! I'm still finding all I can do with it, but for what I have seen it's alredy proven to be very usefull!

Thanks alot!


On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Olivier Dalang <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi !

Ok the plugin is published in the repo (with a nice icon for the occasion ;) ) ! Champagne !


@Denis

I wanted to say that if you need a hand on implementing things in the API, I can help. Although I am by far not the most advanced programmer around, I am truly interested by your development. And I'm somehow in charge of the map tools ;)

Help on the API is more than welcome ! (I'm too much of a newbie in C++ to do any serious work).

I'd say the C and D improvements suggested in the readme are the easiest and could be a good point to start.

The E improvement (an UI improvement rather than API improvement) would be welcome also (and be appreciated beyond the scope of this plugin).

I'm not sure if the A use useful, but it should be easy to implement and may be useful to other plugins.

B would probably require more work (refactoring every single map tool, unless we integrate the snapping hack as a default implementation, which I think is a very bad idea).
I'd say before doing something like this, it could be a nice idea to think about the point I made in my last post about a more rigid base class for mapTools.

Do you have a build environment? If so, while in the feature freeze period, we could work on a different branch.

Yes, so testing another branch is no problem.

By the way, was that a paid development or personal initiative?

It is a personal initiative (i'm of course open to post-work sponsoring ;) ).


Cheers,

Olivier


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