Budget proposal 2019

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Budget proposal 2019

Maria Antonia Brovelli

Dear All

it is time to make the proposal to OSGeo Board for the activities of the UN Committee in 2019.

We have the UN Open GIS Initiative entering in its third year of activities; many people of the UN staff have been trained in QGIS and PostGIS (more than 100) thanks to volunteers of GeoForAll. 

Currently, there is the third edition of QGIS (Victoria Rautenbach chairing the initiative; Thomas Mueller and Cameron Green mentoring)and the second one of PostGIS (Ivana Ivanova chairing, Paolo Corti, Oliva Martin Sanchez, and Gregory Giuliani mentoring). 


About UN Open GIS Initiative the request will be:

1) support for attending a couple of project meeting and training - (one will be probably in South Sudan) 5000$

2) one UN OSGeo Challenge (similar to what we organized last year) to prepare a new training material course on PostGIS (the one we are using, which is a Boundless one, has to be updated and re-built considering the experience of the trainees and trainers). The budget for this initiative will be 3000 $, the same as the initiatives of last year. In case we got financed, Ivana Ivanova and I can be the mentor of the winner of the Challenge.

3) Moreover, we can ask some budget for another training course about SDGs and open data/open software. Last year Codrina Maria Ilie was the winner and the training material is almost ready and will be released soon (it is about the computation of SDG indicator 9.1.1 using QGIS). The budget can be 3000 $, the same as last year and Serena Coetzee and I can be the mentor.

Obviously if you there is somebody who wants to offer her/himself as a mentor, they are more than welcome!

Please let me know if you have comments. If none, I will proceed with the proposal.

Bets regards,

Maria







Please pay attention to these two opportunities:

A new IJGI Special Issue
"State-of-the-Art in Spatial Information Science"
(deadline for submissions: 1 may 2019)


A new Transaction in GIS  Special Issue
"Open Source Geospatial Science, Software and Education"
(deadline for abstract submissions: 15 february 2019)



----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)

Tel. +39-02-23996242 - Mob. +39-328-0023867,  [hidden email][hidden email]

https://orcid.org/0000-0003-3161-556





 


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Re: Budget proposal 2019

Bruce Bannerman-3
Hello Maria,

I do appreciate your passion towards this initiative and the outreach work that you do. 

However, I am very uncomfortable with the approach outlined in the proposal below.

The UN should appreciate the value of open source spatial software by now and be willing to contribute back to the open source community.

Therefore, I believe that the activities suggested below should be funded by the UN and not OSGeo.

Regarding the items in the proposal below:

Item 1)   If this is for a UN Project and they value OSGeo representation, then that should be a UN Project cost and not an OSGeo cost.

Item 2)   I’m not sure what this is, but I interpret it to be for the preparation of QGIS training material specific for UN staff. If so, then again this should be a UN funded activity. The UN may wish to view this as a voluntary contribution that they make to the QGIS Community in part recognition of the benefit that they are receiving from the use of the QGIS Open Source software. This is also an activity that could be undertaken by an commercial organisation that specialises in working with this type of open source software.

Item 3)  I’m not sure what this is, but it also sounds like an activity that would be for UN benefit. If so, then again, they should be paying.

IMO, we need to push back against the expectation that open source is free (as in free beer). There is always a cost to produce and maintain open source and I would like to see those who benefit from using the software to be encouraged to contribute back to the open source communities.

I have been working actively for many years within one of the UN Agencies and am making some real headway towards this agency accepting the value of an open source approach to a specific problem that they have.  I can’t discuss this publicly yet. I’m sure that you’ll appreciate that the wheels can move quite slowly at times as people become comfortable with what is in reality a new approach for them and they have internal processes that need to be followed.

If I have misunderstood the intent of the proposed items in your email, then I apologise in advance.

Kind regards,

Bruce




On 16 Jan 2019, at 06:03, Maria Antonia Brovelli <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear All
it is time to make the proposal to OSGeo Board for the activities of the UN Committee in 2019.
We have the UN Open GIS Initiative entering in its third year of activities; many people of the UN staff have been trained in QGIS and PostGIS (more than 100) thanks to volunteers of GeoForAll. 
Currently, there is the third edition of QGIS (Victoria Rautenbach chairing the initiative; Thomas Mueller and Cameron Green mentoring)and the second one of PostGIS (Ivana Ivanova chairing, Paolo Corti, Oliva Martin Sanchez, and Gregory Giuliani mentoring). 

About UN Open GIS Initiative the request will be:
1) support for attending a couple of project meeting and training - (one will be probably in South Sudan) 5000$
2) one UN OSGeo Challenge (similar to what we organized last year) to prepare a new training material course on PostGIS (the one we are using, which is a Boundless one, has to be updated and re-built considering the experience of the trainees and trainers). The budget for this initiative will be 3000 $, the same as the initiatives of last year. In case we got financed, Ivana Ivanova and I can be the mentor of the winner of the Challenge.
3) Moreover, we can ask some budget for another training course about SDGs and open data/open software. Last year Codrina Maria Ilie was the winner and the training material is almost ready and will be released soon (it is about the computation of SDG indicator 9.1.1 using QGIS). The budget can be 3000 $, the same as last year and Serena Coetzee and I can be the mentor.
Obviously if you there is somebody who wants to offer her/himself as a mentor, they are more than welcome!
Please let me know if you have comments. If none, I will proceed with the proposal.
Bets regards,
Maria






Please pay attention to these two opportunities:

A new IJGI Special Issue
"State-of-the-Art in Spatial Information Science"
(deadline for submissions: 1 may 2019)


A new Transaction in GIS  Special Issue
"Open Source Geospatial Science, Software and Education"
(deadline for abstract submissions: 15 february 2019)



----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)
Tel. +39-02-23996242 - Mob. +39-328-0023867,  [hidden email][hidden email]




 

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un


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[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un
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Re: Budget proposal 2019

Serena Coetzee-2
Dear Bruce,

thanks for the constructive comments.

OSGeo is a partner in the UN Open GIS initiative and, as partner, OSGeo has to support the project. Participation in the initiative is done by volunteers (from OSGeo) and we can't ask the volunteers to pay with their money. This is the reason for the first request. OSGeo partnering in the UN Open GIS initiative should benefit you and all other OSGeo members. Let us know if there anything that the person travelling to Sudan can do to also improve your case.

About the development of training material, this raises awareness of open source software for geospatial and contributes to capacity building in OSGeo. It is a way to support young OSGeo members. Such challenges are common place in industry. The mentors are working for OSGeo as volunteers, increasing the visibility of OSGeo within the UN and beyond. 

Regards,
Serena

Serena Coetzee (GPr GISc 1245)

University of Pretoria
Director: Centre for Geoinformation Science
Professor and Head of Department Geography, Geoinformatics and Meteorology
Geography Building 3-5, Hatfield Campus, Lynnwood Road, Hatfield, 0083, South Africa
email: [hidden email] · Web: www.up.ac.za/ggm · Mobile: +27 82 464 4294 · Tel: +27 12 420 3823


On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 2:16 AM Bruce Bannerman <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello Maria,

I do appreciate your passion towards this initiative and the outreach work that you do. 

However, I am very uncomfortable with the approach outlined in the proposal below.

The UN should appreciate the value of open source spatial software by now and be willing to contribute back to the open source community.

Therefore, I believe that the activities suggested below should be funded by the UN and not OSGeo.

Regarding the items in the proposal below:

Item 1)   If this is for a UN Project and they value OSGeo representation, then that should be a UN Project cost and not an OSGeo cost.

Item 2)   I’m not sure what this is, but I interpret it to be for the preparation of QGIS training material specific for UN staff. If so, then again this should be a UN funded activity. The UN may wish to view this as a voluntary contribution that they make to the QGIS Community in part recognition of the benefit that they are receiving from the use of the QGIS Open Source software. This is also an activity that could be undertaken by an commercial organisation that specialises in working with this type of open source software.

Item 3)  I’m not sure what this is, but it also sounds like an activity that would be for UN benefit. If so, then again, they should be paying.

IMO, we need to push back against the expectation that open source is free (as in free beer). There is always a cost to produce and maintain open source and I would like to see those who benefit from using the software to be encouraged to contribute back to the open source communities.

I have been working actively for many years within one of the UN Agencies and am making some real headway towards this agency accepting the value of an open source approach to a specific problem that they have.  I can’t discuss this publicly yet. I’m sure that you’ll appreciate that the wheels can move quite slowly at times as people become comfortable with what is in reality a new approach for them and they have internal processes that need to be followed.

If I have misunderstood the intent of the proposed items in your email, then I apologise in advance.

Kind regards,

Bruce




On 16 Jan 2019, at 06:03, Maria Antonia Brovelli <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear All
it is time to make the proposal to OSGeo Board for the activities of the UN Committee in 2019.
We have the UN Open GIS Initiative entering in its third year of activities; many people of the UN staff have been trained in QGIS and PostGIS (more than 100) thanks to volunteers of GeoForAll. 
Currently, there is the third edition of QGIS (Victoria Rautenbach chairing the initiative; Thomas Mueller and Cameron Green mentoring)and the second one of PostGIS (Ivana Ivanova chairing, Paolo Corti, Oliva Martin Sanchez, and Gregory Giuliani mentoring). 

About UN Open GIS Initiative the request will be:
1) support for attending a couple of project meeting and training - (one will be probably in South Sudan) 5000$
2) one UN OSGeo Challenge (similar to what we organized last year) to prepare a new training material course on PostGIS (the one we are using, which is a Boundless one, has to be updated and re-built considering the experience of the trainees and trainers). The budget for this initiative will be 3000 $, the same as the initiatives of last year. In case we got financed, Ivana Ivanova and I can be the mentor of the winner of the Challenge.
3) Moreover, we can ask some budget for another training course about SDGs and open data/open software. Last year Codrina Maria Ilie was the winner and the training material is almost ready and will be released soon (it is about the computation of SDG indicator 9.1.1 using QGIS). The budget can be 3000 $, the same as last year and Serena Coetzee and I can be the mentor.
Obviously if you there is somebody who wants to offer her/himself as a mentor, they are more than welcome!
Please let me know if you have comments. If none, I will proceed with the proposal.
Bets regards,
Maria






Please pay attention to these two opportunities:

A new IJGI Special Issue
"State-of-the-Art in Spatial Information Science"
(deadline for submissions: 1 may 2019)


A new Transaction in GIS  Special Issue
"Open Source Geospatial Science, Software and Education"
(deadline for abstract submissions: 15 february 2019)



----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)
Tel. +39-02-23996242 - Mob. +39-328-0023867,  [hidden email][hidden email]




 

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un

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https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un
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Re: Budget proposal 2019

HaeKyong Kang
In reply to this post by Maria Antonia Brovelli

Dear Bruce, Serena and all,


I understood what Mr. Bruce would like to point it out. However I am sorry to say that I am standing for Serena's idea. Specially, I agreed on "It is a way to support young OSGeo members" and "The mentors are working for OSGeo as volunteers, increasing the visibility of OSGeo within the UN and beyond".   


As a non-profit organization for open source geospatial community, Maria's proposal will be a good opportunity for OSGeo to play as a catalyst as well as a facilitator, surely.


Best regards,

HaeKyong

-----------

Research Fellow

Geospatial Information Researchc Division

Korea Research Institute for Human Settlements

www.krihs.re.kr

T 82 044 960 0405

F 82 044 211 4776

H 82 010 2033 5998

Skype somakang1



---------- 원본 메일 ----------
보낸사람: "Serena Coetzee" <[hidden email]>
받는사람: "Bruce Bannerman" <[hidden email]>
참조: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
날짜: 2019-01-16 (수) 20:48:29
제목: Re: [UN] Budget proposal 2019


Dear Bruce,

thanks for the constructive comments.

OSGeo is a partner in the UN Open GIS initiative and, as partner, OSGeo has to support the project. Participation in the initiative is done by volunteers (from OSGeo) and we can't ask the volunteers to pay with their money. This is the reason for the first request. OSGeo partnering in the UN Open GIS initiative should benefit you and all other OSGeo members. Let us know if there anything that the person travelling to Sudan can do to also improve your case.

About the development of training material, this raises awareness of open source software for geospatial and contributes to capacity building in OSGeo. It is a way to support young OSGeo members. Such challenges are common place in industry. The mentors are working for OSGeo as volunteers, increasing the visibility of OSGeo within the UN and beyond. 

Regards,
Serena

Serena Coetzee (GPr GISc 1245)

University of Pretoria
Director: Centre for Geoinformation Science
Professor and Head of Department Geography, Geoinformatics and Meteorology
Geography Building 3-5, Hatfield Campus, Lynnwood Road, Hatfield, 0083, South Africa
email: [hidden email] · Web: www.up.ac.za/ggm · Mobile: +27 82 464 4294 · Tel: +27 12 420 3823


On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 2:16 AM Bruce Bannerman <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello Maria,

I do appreciate your passion towards this initiative and the outreach work that you do. 

However, I am very uncomfortable with the approach outlined in the proposal below.

The UN should appreciate the value of open source spatial software by now and be willing to contribute back to the open source community.

Therefore, I believe that the activities suggested below should be funded by the UN and not OSGeo.

Regarding the items in the proposal below:

Item 1)   If this is for a UN Project and they value OSGeo representation, then that should be a UN Project cost and not an OSGeo cost.

Item 2)   I’m not sure what this is, but I interpret it to be for the preparation of QGIS training material specific for UN staff. If so, then again this should be a UN funded activity. The UN may wish to view this as a voluntary contribution that they make to the QGIS Community in part recognition of the benefit that they are receiving from the use of the QGIS Open Source software. This is also an activity that could be undertaken by an commercial organisation that specialises in working with this type of open source software.

Item 3)  I’m not sure what this is, but it also sounds like an activity that would be for UN benefit. If so, then again, they should be paying.

IMO, we need to push back against the expectation that open source is free (as in free beer). There is always a cost to produce and maintain open source and I would like to see those who benefit from using the software to be encouraged to contribute back to the open source communities.

I have been working actively for many years within one of the UN Agencies and am making some real headway towards this agency accepting the value of an open source approach to a specific problem that they have.  I can’t discuss this publicly yet. I’m sure that you’ll appreciate that the wheels can move quite slowly at times as people become comfortable with what is in reality a new approach for them and they have internal processes that need to be followed.

If I have misunderstood the intent of the proposed items in your email, then I apologise in advance.

Kind regards,

Bruce




On 16 Jan 2019, at 06:03, Maria Antonia Brovelli <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear All
it is time to make the proposal to OSGeo Board for the activities of the UN Committee in 2019.
We have the UN Open GIS Initiative entering in its third year of activities; many people of the UN staff have been trained in QGIS and PostGIS (more than 100) thanks to volunteers of GeoForAll. 
Currently, there is the third edition of QGIS (Victoria Rautenbach chairing the initiative; Thomas Mueller and Cameron Green mentoring)and the second one of PostGIS (Ivana Ivanova chairing, Paolo Corti, Oliva Martin Sanchez, and Gregory Giuliani mentoring). 

About UN Open GIS Initiative the request will be:
1) support for attending a couple of project meeting and training - (one will be probably in South Sudan) 5000$
2) one UN OSGeo Challenge (similar to what we organized last year) to prepare a new training material course on PostGIS (the one we are using, which is a Boundless one, has to be updated and re-built considering the experience of the trainees and trainers). The budget for this initiative will be 3000 $, the same as the initiatives of last year. In case we got financed, Ivana Ivanova and I can be the mentor of the winner of the Challenge.
3) Moreover, we can ask some budget for another training course about SDGs and open data/open software. Last year Codrina Maria Ilie was the winner and the training material is almost ready and will be released soon (it is about the computation of SDG indicator 9.1.1 using QGIS). The budget can be 3000 $, the same as last year and Serena Coetzee and I can be the mentor.
Obviously if you there is somebody who wants to offer her/himself as a mentor, they are more than welcome!
Please let me know if you have comments. If none, I will proceed with the proposal.
Bets regards,
Maria






Please pay attention to these two opportunities:

A new IJGI Special Issue
"State-of-the-Art in Spatial Information Science"
(deadline for submissions: 1 may 2019)


A new Transaction in GIS  Special Issue
"Open Source Geospatial Science, Software and Education"
(deadline for abstract submissions: 15 february 2019)



----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)
Tel. +39-02-23996242 - Mob.  +39-328-0023867,    [hidden email] [hidden email]




 

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un



_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un



_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un
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Re: Budget proposal 2019

Bruce Bannerman-3
In reply to this post by Serena Coetzee-2
Thanks for the more detailed information Serena.

I understand the issue of supporting young and not so young OSGeo volunteers. This is also behind the point that I was trying to make.

There is a principle here, that as a volunteer organisation OSGeo can’t afford to be subsidising other organisations’ use of open source. These organisations need to be encouraged to contribute back to the community, whether through funding, or in kind contributions of staff time and effort, etc.

However, I will not pursue my intervention further at this stage. I appreciate the work that this team is doing and do not wish to derail that effort and good work.

Kind regards,

Bruce


On 16 Jan 2019, at 22:48, Serena Coetzee <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Bruce,

thanks for the constructive comments.

OSGeo is a partner in the UN Open GIS initiative and, as partner, OSGeo has to support the project. Participation in the initiative is done by volunteers (from OSGeo) and we can't ask the volunteers to pay with their money. This is the reason for the first request. OSGeo partnering in the UN Open GIS initiative should benefit you and all other OSGeo members. Let us know if there anything that the person travelling to Sudan can do to also improve your case.

About the development of training material, this raises awareness of open source software for geospatial and contributes to capacity building in OSGeo. It is a way to support young OSGeo members. Such challenges are common place in industry. The mentors are working for OSGeo as volunteers, increasing the visibility of OSGeo within the UN and beyond. 

Regards,
Serena

Serena Coetzee (GPr GISc 1245)

University of Pretoria
Director: Centre for Geoinformation Science
Professor and Head of Department Geography, Geoinformatics and Meteorology
Geography Building 3-5, Hatfield Campus, Lynnwood Road, Hatfield, 0083, South Africa
email: [hidden email] · Web: www.up.ac.za/ggm · Mobile: +27 82 464 4294 · Tel: +27 12 420 3823


On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 2:16 AM Bruce Bannerman <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello Maria,

I do appreciate your passion towards this initiative and the outreach work that you do. 

However, I am very uncomfortable with the approach outlined in the proposal below.

The UN should appreciate the value of open source spatial software by now and be willing to contribute back to the open source community.

Therefore, I believe that the activities suggested below should be funded by the UN and not OSGeo.

Regarding the items in the proposal below:

Item 1)   If this is for a UN Project and they value OSGeo representation, then that should be a UN Project cost and not an OSGeo cost.

Item 2)   I’m not sure what this is, but I interpret it to be for the preparation of QGIS training material specific for UN staff. If so, then again this should be a UN funded activity. The UN may wish to view this as a voluntary contribution that they make to the QGIS Community in part recognition of the benefit that they are receiving from the use of the QGIS Open Source software. This is also an activity that could be undertaken by an commercial organisation that specialises in working with this type of open source software.

Item 3)  I’m not sure what this is, but it also sounds like an activity that would be for UN benefit. If so, then again, they should be paying.

IMO, we need to push back against the expectation that open source is free (as in free beer). There is always a cost to produce and maintain open source and I would like to see those who benefit from using the software to be encouraged to contribute back to the open source communities.

I have been working actively for many years within one of the UN Agencies and am making some real headway towards this agency accepting the value of an open source approach to a specific problem that they have.  I can’t discuss this publicly yet. I’m sure that you’ll appreciate that the wheels can move quite slowly at times as people become comfortable with what is in reality a new approach for them and they have internal processes that need to be followed.

If I have misunderstood the intent of the proposed items in your email, then I apologise in advance.

Kind regards,

Bruce




On 16 Jan 2019, at 06:03, Maria Antonia Brovelli <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear All
it is time to make the proposal to OSGeo Board for the activities of the UN Committee in 2019.
We have the UN Open GIS Initiative entering in its third year of activities; many people of the UN staff have been trained in QGIS and PostGIS (more than 100) thanks to volunteers of GeoForAll. 
Currently, there is the third edition of QGIS (Victoria Rautenbach chairing the initiative; Thomas Mueller and Cameron Green mentoring)and the second one of PostGIS (Ivana Ivanova chairing, Paolo Corti, Oliva Martin Sanchez, and Gregory Giuliani mentoring). 

About UN Open GIS Initiative the request will be:
1) support for attending a couple of project meeting and training - (one will be probably in South Sudan) 5000$
2) one UN OSGeo Challenge (similar to what we organized last year) to prepare a new training material course on PostGIS (the one we are using, which is a Boundless one, has to be updated and re-built considering the experience of the trainees and trainers). The budget for this initiative will be 3000 $, the same as the initiatives of last year. In case we got financed, Ivana Ivanova and I can be the mentor of the winner of the Challenge.
3) Moreover, we can ask some budget for another training course about SDGs and open data/open software. Last year Codrina Maria Ilie was the winner and the training material is almost ready and will be released soon (it is about the computation of SDG indicator 9.1.1 using QGIS). The budget can be 3000 $, the same as last year and Serena Coetzee and I can be the mentor.
Obviously if you there is somebody who wants to offer her/himself as a mentor, they are more than welcome!
Please let me know if you have comments. If none, I will proceed with the proposal.
Bets regards,
Maria






Please pay attention to these two opportunities:

A new IJGI Special Issue
"State-of-the-Art in Spatial Information Science"
(deadline for submissions: 1 may 2019)


A new Transaction in GIS  Special Issue
"Open Source Geospatial Science, Software and Education"
(deadline for abstract submissions: 15 february 2019)



----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)
Tel. +39-02-23996242 - Mob. +39-328-0023867,  [hidden email][hidden email]




 

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un
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Re: Budget proposal 2019

Cameron Shorter

Hi Serena, which I acknowledge the value of your points, I'm inclined to agree with Bruce's points that the OSGeo volunteer organisation shouldn't be subsidising a funded organisations such as the UN (who I've heard are able to find money to purchase ESRI licenses).

It is hard to teach an organisation like the UN that they should pay to gain the value of Open Source if we keep diverting our budget toward giving them a free ride.

Warm regards, Cameron

On 17/1/19 7:48 am, Bruce Bannerman wrote:
Thanks for the more detailed information Serena.

I understand the issue of supporting young and not so young OSGeo volunteers. This is also behind the point that I was trying to make.

There is a principle here, that as a volunteer organisation OSGeo can’t afford to be subsidising other organisations’ use of open source. These organisations need to be encouraged to contribute back to the community, whether through funding, or in kind contributions of staff time and effort, etc.

However, I will not pursue my intervention further at this stage. I appreciate the work that this team is doing and do not wish to derail that effort and good work.

Kind regards,

Bruce


On 16 Jan 2019, at 22:48, Serena Coetzee <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Bruce,

thanks for the constructive comments.

OSGeo is a partner in the UN Open GIS initiative and, as partner, OSGeo has to support the project. Participation in the initiative is done by volunteers (from OSGeo) and we can't ask the volunteers to pay with their money. This is the reason for the first request. OSGeo partnering in the UN Open GIS initiative should benefit you and all other OSGeo members. Let us know if there anything that the person travelling to Sudan can do to also improve your case.

About the development of training material, this raises awareness of open source software for geospatial and contributes to capacity building in OSGeo. It is a way to support young OSGeo members. Such challenges are common place in industry. The mentors are working for OSGeo as volunteers, increasing the visibility of OSGeo within the UN and beyond. 

Regards,
Serena

Serena Coetzee (GPr GISc 1245)

University of Pretoria
Director: Centre for Geoinformation Science
Professor and Head of Department Geography, Geoinformatics and Meteorology
Geography Building 3-5, Hatfield Campus, Lynnwood Road, Hatfield, 0083, South Africa
email: [hidden email] · Web: www.up.ac.za/ggm · Mobile: +27 82 464 4294 · Tel: +27 12 420 3823


On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 2:16 AM Bruce Bannerman <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello Maria,

I do appreciate your passion towards this initiative and the outreach work that you do. 

However, I am very uncomfortable with the approach outlined in the proposal below.

The UN should appreciate the value of open source spatial software by now and be willing to contribute back to the open source community.

Therefore, I believe that the activities suggested below should be funded by the UN and not OSGeo.

Regarding the items in the proposal below:

Item 1)   If this is for a UN Project and they value OSGeo representation, then that should be a UN Project cost and not an OSGeo cost.

Item 2)   I’m not sure what this is, but I interpret it to be for the preparation of QGIS training material specific for UN staff. If so, then again this should be a UN funded activity. The UN may wish to view this as a voluntary contribution that they make to the QGIS Community in part recognition of the benefit that they are receiving from the use of the QGIS Open Source software. This is also an activity that could be undertaken by an commercial organisation that specialises in working with this type of open source software.

Item 3)  I’m not sure what this is, but it also sounds like an activity that would be for UN benefit. If so, then again, they should be paying.

IMO, we need to push back against the expectation that open source is free (as in free beer). There is always a cost to produce and maintain open source and I would like to see those who benefit from using the software to be encouraged to contribute back to the open source communities.

I have been working actively for many years within one of the UN Agencies and am making some real headway towards this agency accepting the value of an open source approach to a specific problem that they have.  I can’t discuss this publicly yet. I’m sure that you’ll appreciate that the wheels can move quite slowly at times as people become comfortable with what is in reality a new approach for them and they have internal processes that need to be followed.

If I have misunderstood the intent of the proposed items in your email, then I apologise in advance.

Kind regards,

Bruce




On 16 Jan 2019, at 06:03, Maria Antonia Brovelli <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear All
it is time to make the proposal to OSGeo Board for the activities of the UN Committee in 2019.
We have the UN Open GIS Initiative entering in its third year of activities; many people of the UN staff have been trained in QGIS and PostGIS (more than 100) thanks to volunteers of GeoForAll. 
Currently, there is the third edition of QGIS (Victoria Rautenbach chairing the initiative; Thomas Mueller and Cameron Green mentoring)and the second one of PostGIS (Ivana Ivanova chairing, Paolo Corti, Oliva Martin Sanchez, and Gregory Giuliani mentoring). 

About UN Open GIS Initiative the request will be:
1) support for attending a couple of project meeting and training - (one will be probably in South Sudan) 5000$
2) one UN OSGeo Challenge (similar to what we organized last year) to prepare a new training material course on PostGIS (the one we are using, which is a Boundless one, has to be updated and re-built considering the experience of the trainees and trainers). The budget for this initiative will be 3000 $, the same as the initiatives of last year. In case we got financed, Ivana Ivanova and I can be the mentor of the winner of the Challenge.
3) Moreover, we can ask some budget for another training course about SDGs and open data/open software. Last year Codrina Maria Ilie was the winner and the training material is almost ready and will be released soon (it is about the computation of SDG indicator 9.1.1 using QGIS). The budget can be 3000 $, the same as last year and Serena Coetzee and I can be the mentor.
Obviously if you there is somebody who wants to offer her/himself as a mentor, they are more than welcome!
Please let me know if you have comments. If none, I will proceed with the proposal.
Bets regards,
Maria






Please pay attention to these two opportunities:

A new IJGI Special Issue
"State-of-the-Art in Spatial Information Science"
(deadline for submissions: 1 may 2019)


A new Transaction in GIS  Special Issue
"Open Source Geospatial Science, Software and Education"
(deadline for abstract submissions: 15 february 2019)



----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)
Tel. +39-02-23996242 - Mob. +39-328-0023867,  [hidden email]




 

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un
-- 
Cameron Shorter
Technology Demystifier
Open Technologies and Geospatial Consultant

M +61 (0) 419 142 254

_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un
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Re: Budget proposal 2019

Nils Hempelmann
Dear all 

Its nice to read this discussion. Would it make sence and be possible to have a video/telefon converence for a profund exchange? 
Dealing with very big organisations like UN needs multiple strategies. Its good that we are coming up with concrete proposals and alternative ideas. 

Cheers nils 


Envoyé depuis mon smartphone. 

-------- Message d'origine --------
De : Cameron Shorter <[hidden email]>
Date : 17/01/2019 12:34 (GMT+01:00)
Objet : Re: [UN] Budget proposal 2019

Hi Serena, which I acknowledge the value of your points, I'm inclined to agree with Bruce's points that the OSGeo volunteer organisation shouldn't be subsidising a funded organisations such as the UN (who I've heard are able to find money to purchase ESRI licenses).

It is hard to teach an organisation like the UN that they should pay to gain the value of Open Source if we keep diverting our budget toward giving them a free ride.

Warm regards, Cameron

On 17/1/19 7:48 am, Bruce Bannerman wrote:
Thanks for the more detailed information Serena.

I understand the issue of supporting young and not so young OSGeo volunteers. This is also behind the point that I was trying to make.

There is a principle here, that as a volunteer organisation OSGeo can’t afford to be subsidising other organisations’ use of open source. These organisations need to be encouraged to contribute back to the community, whether through funding, or in kind contributions of staff time and effort, etc.

However, I will not pursue my intervention further at this stage. I appreciate the work that this team is doing and do not wish to derail that effort and good work.

Kind regards,

Bruce


On 16 Jan 2019, at 22:48, Serena Coetzee <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Bruce,

thanks for the constructive comments.

OSGeo is a partner in the UN Open GIS initiative and, as partner, OSGeo has to support the project. Participation in the initiative is done by volunteers (from OSGeo) and we can't ask the volunteers to pay with their money. This is the reason for the first request. OSGeo partnering in the UN Open GIS initiative should benefit you and all other OSGeo members. Let us know if there anything that the person travelling to Sudan can do to also improve your case.

About the development of training material, this raises awareness of open source software for geospatial and contributes to capacity building in OSGeo. It is a way to support young OSGeo members. Such challenges are common place in industry. The mentors are working for OSGeo as volunteers, increasing the visibility of OSGeo within the UN and beyond. 

Regards,
Serena

Serena Coetzee (GPr GISc 1245)

University of Pretoria
Director: Centre for Geoinformation Science
Professor and Head of Department Geography, Geoinformatics and Meteorology
Geography Building 3-5, Hatfield Campus, Lynnwood Road, Hatfield, 0083, South Africa
email: [hidden email] · Web: www.up.ac.za/ggm · Mobile: +27 82 464 4294 · Tel: +27 12 420 3823


On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 2:16 AM Bruce Bannerman <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello Maria,

I do appreciate your passion towards this initiative and the outreach work that you do. 

However, I am very uncomfortable with the approach outlined in the proposal below.

The UN should appreciate the value of open source spatial software by now and be willing to contribute back to the open source community.

Therefore, I believe that the activities suggested below should be funded by the UN and not OSGeo.

Regarding the items in the proposal below:

Item 1)   If this is for a UN Project and they value OSGeo representation, then that should be a UN Project cost and not an OSGeo cost.

Item 2)   I’m not sure what this is, but I interpret it to be for the preparation of QGIS training material specific for UN staff. If so, then again this should be a UN funded activity. The UN may wish to view this as a voluntary contribution that they make to the QGIS Community in part recognition of the benefit that they are receiving from the use of the QGIS Open Source software. This is also an activity that could be undertaken by an commercial organisation that specialises in working with this type of open source software.

Item 3)  I’m not sure what this is, but it also sounds like an activity that would be for UN benefit. If so, then again, they should be paying.

IMO, we need to push back against the expectation that open source is free (as in free beer). There is always a cost to produce and maintain open source and I would like to see those who benefit from using the software to be encouraged to contribute back to the open source communities.

I have been working actively for many years within one of the UN Agencies and am making some real headway towards this agency accepting the value of an open source approach to a specific problem that they have.  I can’t discuss this publicly yet. I’m sure that you’ll appreciate that the wheels can move quite slowly at times as people become comfortable with what is in reality a new approach for them and they have internal processes that need to be followed.

If I have misunderstood the intent of the proposed items in your email, then I apologise in advance.

Kind regards,

Bruce




On 16 Jan 2019, at 06:03, Maria Antonia Brovelli <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear All
it is time to make the proposal to OSGeo Board for the activities of the UN Committee in 2019.
We have the UN Open GIS Initiative entering in its third year of activities; many people of the UN staff have been trained in QGIS and PostGIS (more than 100) thanks to volunteers of GeoForAll. 
Currently, there is the third edition of QGIS (Victoria Rautenbach chairing the initiative; Thomas Mueller and Cameron Green mentoring)and the second one of PostGIS (Ivana Ivanova chairing, Paolo Corti, Oliva Martin Sanchez, and Gregory Giuliani mentoring). 

About UN Open GIS Initiative the request will be:
1) support for attending a couple of project meeting and training - (one will be probably in South Sudan) 5000$
2) one UN OSGeo Challenge (similar to what we organized last year) to prepare a new training material course on PostGIS (the one we are using, which is a Boundless one, has to be updated and re-built considering the experience of the trainees and trainers). The budget for this initiative will be 3000 $, the same as the initiatives of last year. In case we got financed, Ivana Ivanova and I can be the mentor of the winner of the Challenge.
3) Moreover, we can ask some budget for another training course about SDGs and open data/open software. Last year Codrina Maria Ilie was the winner and the training material is almost ready and will be released soon (it is about the computation of SDG indicator 9.1.1 using QGIS). The budget can be 3000 $, the same as last year and Serena Coetzee and I can be the mentor.
Obviously if you there is somebody who wants to offer her/himself as a mentor, they are more than welcome!
Please let me know if you have comments. If none, I will proceed with the proposal.
Bets regards,
Maria






Please pay attention to these two opportunities:

A new IJGI Special Issue
"State-of-the-Art in Spatial Information Science"
(deadline for submissions: 1 may 2019)


A new Transaction in GIS  Special Issue
"Open Source Geospatial Science, Software and Education"
(deadline for abstract submissions: 15 february 2019)



----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)
Tel. +39-02-23996242 - Mob. +39-328-0023867,  [hidden email]




 

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un
-- 
Cameron Shorter
Technology Demystifier
Open Technologies and Geospatial Consultant

M +61 (0) 419 142 254

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un
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Re: Budget proposal 2019

Bruce Bannerman-3
Hi Nils,

OK by me.

However, I will need to insist that we use Chatham House Rule [1].

Cheers,

Bruce



On 17 Jan 2019, at 23:13, Nils Hempelmann <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear all 

Its nice to read this discussion. Would it make sence and be possible to have a video/telefon converence for a profund exchange? 
Dealing with very big organisations like UN needs multiple strategies. Its good that we are coming up with concrete proposals and alternative ideas. 

Cheers nils 


Envoyé depuis mon smartphone. 

-------- Message d'origine --------
De : Cameron Shorter <[hidden email]>
Date : 17/01/2019 12:34 (GMT+01:00)
Objet : Re: [UN] Budget proposal 2019

Hi Serena, which I acknowledge the value of your points, I'm inclined to agree with Bruce's points that the OSGeo volunteer organisation shouldn't be subsidising a funded organisations such as the UN (who I've heard are able to find money to purchase ESRI licenses).

It is hard to teach an organisation like the UN that they should pay to gain the value of Open Source if we keep diverting our budget toward giving them a free ride.

Warm regards, Cameron

On 17/1/19 7:48 am, Bruce Bannerman wrote:
Thanks for the more detailed information Serena.

I understand the issue of supporting young and not so young OSGeo volunteers. This is also behind the point that I was trying to make.

There is a principle here, that as a volunteer organisation OSGeo can’t afford to be subsidising other organisations’ use of open source. These organisations need to be encouraged to contribute back to the community, whether through funding, or in kind contributions of staff time and effort, etc.

However, I will not pursue my intervention further at this stage. I appreciate the work that this team is doing and do not wish to derail that effort and good work.

Kind regards,

Bruce


On 16 Jan 2019, at 22:48, Serena Coetzee <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Bruce,

thanks for the constructive comments.

OSGeo is a partner in the UN Open GIS initiative and, as partner, OSGeo has to support the project. Participation in the initiative is done by volunteers (from OSGeo) and we can't ask the volunteers to pay with their money. This is the reason for the first request. OSGeo partnering in the UN Open GIS initiative should benefit you and all other OSGeo members. Let us know if there anything that the person travelling to Sudan can do to also improve your case.

About the development of training material, this raises awareness of open source software for geospatial and contributes to capacity building in OSGeo. It is a way to support young OSGeo members. Such challenges are common place in industry. The mentors are working for OSGeo as volunteers, increasing the visibility of OSGeo within the UN and beyond. 

Regards,
Serena

Serena Coetzee (GPr GISc 1245)

University of Pretoria
Director: Centre for Geoinformation Science
Professor and Head of Department Geography, Geoinformatics and Meteorology
Geography Building 3-5, Hatfield Campus, Lynnwood Road, Hatfield, 0083, South Africa
email: [hidden email] · Web: www.up.ac.za/ggm · Mobile: +27 82 464 4294 · Tel: +27 12 420 3823


On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 2:16 AM Bruce Bannerman <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello Maria,

I do appreciate your passion towards this initiative and the outreach work that you do. 

However, I am very uncomfortable with the approach outlined in the proposal below.

The UN should appreciate the value of open source spatial software by now and be willing to contribute back to the open source community.

Therefore, I believe that the activities suggested below should be funded by the UN and not OSGeo.

Regarding the items in the proposal below:

Item 1)   If this is for a UN Project and they value OSGeo representation, then that should be a UN Project cost and not an OSGeo cost.

Item 2)   I’m not sure what this is, but I interpret it to be for the preparation of QGIS training material specific for UN staff. If so, then again this should be a UN funded activity. The UN may wish to view this as a voluntary contribution that they make to the QGIS Community in part recognition of the benefit that they are receiving from the use of the QGIS Open Source software. This is also an activity that could be undertaken by an commercial organisation that specialises in working with this type of open source software.

Item 3)  I’m not sure what this is, but it also sounds like an activity that would be for UN benefit. If so, then again, they should be paying.

IMO, we need to push back against the expectation that open source is free (as in free beer). There is always a cost to produce and maintain open source and I would like to see those who benefit from using the software to be encouraged to contribute back to the open source communities.

I have been working actively for many years within one of the UN Agencies and am making some real headway towards this agency accepting the value of an open source approach to a specific problem that they have.  I can’t discuss this publicly yet. I’m sure that you’ll appreciate that the wheels can move quite slowly at times as people become comfortable with what is in reality a new approach for them and they have internal processes that need to be followed.

If I have misunderstood the intent of the proposed items in your email, then I apologise in advance.

Kind regards,

Bruce




On 16 Jan 2019, at 06:03, Maria Antonia Brovelli <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear All
it is time to make the proposal to OSGeo Board for the activities of the UN Committee in 2019.
We have the UN Open GIS Initiative entering in its third year of activities; many people of the UN staff have been trained in QGIS and PostGIS (more than 100) thanks to volunteers of GeoForAll. 
Currently, there is the third edition of QGIS (Victoria Rautenbach chairing the initiative; Thomas Mueller and Cameron Green mentoring)and the second one of PostGIS (Ivana Ivanova chairing, Paolo Corti, Oliva Martin Sanchez, and Gregory Giuliani mentoring). 

About UN Open GIS Initiative the request will be:
1) support for attending a couple of project meeting and training - (one will be probably in South Sudan) 5000$
2) one UN OSGeo Challenge (similar to what we organized last year) to prepare a new training material course on PostGIS (the one we are using, which is a Boundless one, has to be updated and re-built considering the experience of the trainees and trainers). The budget for this initiative will be 3000 $, the same as the initiatives of last year. In case we got financed, Ivana Ivanova and I can be the mentor of the winner of the Challenge.
3) Moreover, we can ask some budget for another training course about SDGs and open data/open software. Last year Codrina Maria Ilie was the winner and the training material is almost ready and will be released soon (it is about the computation of SDG indicator 9.1.1 using QGIS). The budget can be 3000 $, the same as last year and Serena Coetzee and I can be the mentor.
Obviously if you there is somebody who wants to offer her/himself as a mentor, they are more than welcome!
Please let me know if you have comments. If none, I will proceed with the proposal.
Bets regards,
Maria






Please pay attention to these two opportunities:

A new IJGI Special Issue
"State-of-the-Art in Spatial Information Science"
(deadline for submissions: 1 may 2019)


A new Transaction in GIS  Special Issue
"Open Source Geospatial Science, Software and Education"
(deadline for abstract submissions: 15 february 2019)



----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)
Tel. +39-02-23996242 - Mob. +39-328-0023867,  [hidden email]




 

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un
-- 
Cameron Shorter
Technology Demystifier
Open Technologies and Geospatial Consultant

M +61 (0) 419 142 254
_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Budget proposal 2019

Maria Antonia Brovelli

Dear All

thank you a lot for your great comments and suggestions. 

I suggest doing in this way.  As OSGeo is a partner of the UN Open GIS Initiative, given the fact that the Challenges of last year have given OSGeo good visibility - and many people have contributed to this success, I propose to go ahead with them. 


Hae-Kyong, you proposed a new challenge based on Spiral 3. In order to submit the proposal to OSGeo, I need to provide a description of the challenge. Can you send me it by Monday my morning? I want to submit the proposal of the budget on Monday at my lunchtime and therefore I need you to send the proposal before.  I give for granted that you want to volunteer as the mentor of the challenge (as you did in 2018), do you?


Moreover, Nils, Bruce, Cameron, and everybody who is now interested in contributing to the activities of the UN Committee with new projects: I propose to have a meeting for discussing the initiatives that you want to propose. 

With Serena, we defined two possible time slots. Please find details on the wiki page of the OSGeo UN Committee under Meeting January 2019  (https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/UnitedNations_Committee). 


Thanks to everybody. I'm looking forward to meeting you at the end of January.

Best regards,

Maria



Please pay attention to these two opportunities:

A new IJGI Special Issue
"State-of-the-Art in Spatial Information Science"
(deadline for submissions: 1 may 2019)


A new Transaction in GIS  Special Issue
"Open Source Geospatial Science, Software and Education"
(deadline for abstract submissions: 15 february 2019)



----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)

Tel. +39-02-23996242 - Mob. +39-328-0023867,  [hidden email][hidden email]

https://orcid.org/0000-0003-3161-556





 


Da: UN <[hidden email]> per conto di Bruce Bannerman <[hidden email]>
Inviato: giovedì 17 gennaio 2019 21:33:51
A: Nils Hempelmann
Cc: [hidden email]
Oggetto: Re: [UN] Budget proposal 2019
 
Hi Nils,

OK by me.

However, I will need to insist that we use Chatham House Rule [1].

Cheers,

Bruce



On 17 Jan 2019, at 23:13, Nils Hempelmann <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear all 

Its nice to read this discussion. Would it make sence and be possible to have a video/telefon converence for a profund exchange? 
Dealing with very big organisations like UN needs multiple strategies. Its good that we are coming up with concrete proposals and alternative ideas. 

Cheers nils 


Envoyé depuis mon smartphone. 

-------- Message d'origine --------
De : Cameron Shorter <[hidden email]>
Date : 17/01/2019 12:34 (GMT+01:00)
Objet : Re: [UN] Budget proposal 2019

Hi Serena, which I acknowledge the value of your points, I'm inclined to agree with Bruce's points that the OSGeo volunteer organisation shouldn't be subsidising a funded organisations such as the UN (who I've heard are able to find money to purchase ESRI licenses).

It is hard to teach an organisation like the UN that they should pay to gain the value of Open Source if we keep diverting our budget toward giving them a free ride.

Warm regards, Cameron

On 17/1/19 7:48 am, Bruce Bannerman wrote:
Thanks for the more detailed information Serena.

I understand the issue of supporting young and not so young OSGeo volunteers. This is also behind the point that I was trying to make.

There is a principle here, that as a volunteer organisation OSGeo can’t afford to be subsidising other organisations’ use of open source. These organisations need to be encouraged to contribute back to the community, whether through funding, or in kind contributions of staff time and effort, etc.

However, I will not pursue my intervention further at this stage. I appreciate the work that this team is doing and do not wish to derail that effort and good work.

Kind regards,

Bruce


On 16 Jan 2019, at 22:48, Serena Coetzee <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Bruce,

thanks for the constructive comments.

OSGeo is a partner in the UN Open GIS initiative and, as partner, OSGeo has to support the project. Participation in the initiative is done by volunteers (from OSGeo) and we can't ask the volunteers to pay with their money. This is the reason for the first request. OSGeo partnering in the UN Open GIS initiative should benefit you and all other OSGeo members. Let us know if there anything that the person travelling to Sudan can do to also improve your case.

About the development of training material, this raises awareness of open source software for geospatial and contributes to capacity building in OSGeo. It is a way to support young OSGeo members. Such challenges are common place in industry. The mentors are working for OSGeo as volunteers, increasing the visibility of OSGeo within the UN and beyond. 

Regards,
Serena

Serena Coetzee (GPr GISc 1245)

University of Pretoria
Director: Centre for Geoinformation Science
Professor and Head of Department Geography, Geoinformatics and Meteorology
Geography Building 3-5, Hatfield Campus, Lynnwood Road, Hatfield, 0083, South Africa
email: [hidden email] · Web: www.up.ac.za/ggm · Mobile: +27 82 464 4294 · Tel: +27 12 420 3823


On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 2:16 AM Bruce Bannerman <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello Maria,

I do appreciate your passion towards this initiative and the outreach work that you do. 

However, I am very uncomfortable with the approach outlined in the proposal below.

The UN should appreciate the value of open source spatial software by now and be willing to contribute back to the open source community.

Therefore, I believe that the activities suggested below should be funded by the UN and not OSGeo.

Regarding the items in the proposal below:

Item 1)   If this is for a UN Project and they value OSGeo representation, then that should be a UN Project cost and not an OSGeo cost.

Item 2)   I’m not sure what this is, but I interpret it to be for the preparation of QGIS training material specific for UN staff. If so, then again this should be a UN funded activity. The UN may wish to view this as a voluntary contribution that they make to the QGIS Community in part recognition of the benefit that they are receiving from the use of the QGIS Open Source software. This is also an activity that could be undertaken by an commercial organisation that specialises in working with this type of open source software.

Item 3)  I’m not sure what this is, but it also sounds like an activity that would be for UN benefit. If so, then again, they should be paying.

IMO, we need to push back against the expectation that open source is free (as in free beer). There is always a cost to produce and maintain open source and I would like to see those who benefit from using the software to be encouraged to contribute back to the open source communities.

I have been working actively for many years within one of the UN Agencies and am making some real headway towards this agency accepting the value of an open source approach to a specific problem that they have.  I can’t discuss this publicly yet. I’m sure that you’ll appreciate that the wheels can move quite slowly at times as people become comfortable with what is in reality a new approach for them and they have internal processes that need to be followed.

If I have misunderstood the intent of the proposed items in your email, then I apologise in advance.

Kind regards,

Bruce




On 16 Jan 2019, at 06:03, Maria Antonia Brovelli <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear All
it is time to make the proposal to OSGeo Board for the activities of the UN Committee in 2019.
We have the UN Open GIS Initiative entering in its third year of activities; many people of the UN staff have been trained in QGIS and PostGIS (more than 100) thanks to volunteers of GeoForAll. 
Currently, there is the third edition of QGIS (Victoria Rautenbach chairing the initiative; Thomas Mueller and Cameron Green mentoring)and the second one of PostGIS (Ivana Ivanova chairing, Paolo Corti, Oliva Martin Sanchez, and Gregory Giuliani mentoring). 

About UN Open GIS Initiative the request will be:
1) support for attending a couple of project meeting and training - (one will be probably in South Sudan) 5000$
2) one UN OSGeo Challenge (similar to what we organized last year) to prepare a new training material course on PostGIS (the one we are using, which is a Boundless one, has to be updated and re-built considering the experience of the trainees and trainers). The budget for this initiative will be 3000 $, the same as the initiatives of last year. In case we got financed, Ivana Ivanova and I can be the mentor of the winner of the Challenge.
3) Moreover, we can ask some budget for another training course about SDGs and open data/open software. Last year Codrina Maria Ilie was the winner and the training material is almost ready and will be released soon (it is about the computation of SDG indicator 9.1.1 using QGIS). The budget can be 3000 $, the same as last year and Serena Coetzee and I can be the mentor.
Obviously if you there is somebody who wants to offer her/himself as a mentor, they are more than welcome!
Please let me know if you have comments. If none, I will proceed with the proposal.
Bets regards,
Maria






Please pay attention to these two opportunities:

A new IJGI Special Issue
"State-of-the-Art in Spatial Information Science"
(deadline for submissions: 1 may 2019)


A new Transaction in GIS  Special Issue
"Open Source Geospatial Science, Software and Education"
(deadline for abstract submissions: 15 february 2019)



----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)
Tel. +39-02-23996242 - Mob. +39-328-0023867,  [hidden email]




 

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un
-- 
Cameron Shorter
Technology Demystifier
Open Technologies and Geospatial Consultant

M +61 (0) 419 142 254
_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un

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Re: Budget proposal 2019

Bruce Bannerman-3
Proposal 2 suits me best.

Proposal 1 is at 1am my time. I won’t be able to make it.

Cheers,

Bruce

On 20 Jan 2019, at 06:58, Maria Antonia Brovelli <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear All

thank you a lot for your great comments and suggestions. 

I suggest doing in this way.  As OSGeo is a partner of the UN Open GIS Initiative, given the fact that the Challenges of last year have given OSGeo good visibility - and many people have contributed to this success, I propose to go ahead with them. 


Hae-Kyong, you proposed a new challenge based on Spiral 3. In order to submit the proposal to OSGeo, I need to provide a description of the challenge. Can you send me it by Monday my morning? I want to submit the proposal of the budget on Monday at my lunchtime and therefore I need you to send the proposal before.  I give for granted that you want to volunteer as the mentor of the challenge (as you did in 2018), do you?


Moreover, Nils, Bruce, Cameron, and everybody who is now interested in contributing to the activities of the UN Committee with new projects: I propose to have a meeting for discussing the initiatives that you want to propose. 

With Serena, we defined two possible time slots. Please find details on the wiki page of the OSGeo UN Committee under Meeting January 2019  (https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/UnitedNations_Committee). 


Thanks to everybody. I'm looking forward to meeting you at the end of January.

Best regards,

Maria



Please pay attention to these two opportunities:

A new IJGI Special Issue
"State-of-the-Art in Spatial Information Science"
(deadline for submissions: 1 may 2019)


A new Transaction in GIS  Special Issue
"Open Source Geospatial Science, Software and Education"
(deadline for abstract submissions: 15 february 2019)



----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)

Tel. +39-02-23996242 - Mob. +39-328-0023867,  [hidden email][hidden email]

https://orcid.org/0000-0003-3161-556





 


Da: UN <[hidden email]> per conto di Bruce Bannerman <[hidden email]>
Inviato: giovedì 17 gennaio 2019 21:33:51
A: Nils Hempelmann
Cc: [hidden email]
Oggetto: Re: [UN] Budget proposal 2019
 
Hi Nils,

OK by me.

However, I will need to insist that we use Chatham House Rule [1].

Cheers,

Bruce



On 17 Jan 2019, at 23:13, Nils Hempelmann <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear all 

Its nice to read this discussion. Would it make sence and be possible to have a video/telefon converence for a profund exchange? 
Dealing with very big organisations like UN needs multiple strategies. Its good that we are coming up with concrete proposals and alternative ideas. 

Cheers nils 


Envoyé depuis mon smartphone. 

-------- Message d'origine --------
De : Cameron Shorter <[hidden email]>
Date : 17/01/2019 12:34 (GMT+01:00)
Objet : Re: [UN] Budget proposal 2019

Hi Serena, which I acknowledge the value of your points, I'm inclined to agree with Bruce's points that the OSGeo volunteer organisation shouldn't be subsidising a funded organisations such as the UN (who I've heard are able to find money to purchase ESRI licenses).

It is hard to teach an organisation like the UN that they should pay to gain the value of Open Source if we keep diverting our budget toward giving them a free ride.

Warm regards, Cameron

On 17/1/19 7:48 am, Bruce Bannerman wrote:
Thanks for the more detailed information Serena.

I understand the issue of supporting young and not so young OSGeo volunteers. This is also behind the point that I was trying to make.

There is a principle here, that as a volunteer organisation OSGeo can’t afford to be subsidising other organisations’ use of open source. These organisations need to be encouraged to contribute back to the community, whether through funding, or in kind contributions of staff time and effort, etc.

However, I will not pursue my intervention further at this stage. I appreciate the work that this team is doing and do not wish to derail that effort and good work.

Kind regards,

Bruce


On 16 Jan 2019, at 22:48, Serena Coetzee <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Bruce,

thanks for the constructive comments.

OSGeo is a partner in the UN Open GIS initiative and, as partner, OSGeo has to support the project. Participation in the initiative is done by volunteers (from OSGeo) and we can't ask the volunteers to pay with their money. This is the reason for the first request. OSGeo partnering in the UN Open GIS initiative should benefit you and all other OSGeo members. Let us know if there anything that the person travelling to Sudan can do to also improve your case.

About the development of training material, this raises awareness of open source software for geospatial and contributes to capacity building in OSGeo. It is a way to support young OSGeo members. Such challenges are common place in industry. The mentors are working for OSGeo as volunteers, increasing the visibility of OSGeo within the UN and beyond. 

Regards,
Serena

Serena Coetzee (GPr GISc 1245)

University of Pretoria
Director: Centre for Geoinformation Science
Professor and Head of Department Geography, Geoinformatics and Meteorology
Geography Building 3-5, Hatfield Campus, Lynnwood Road, Hatfield, 0083, South Africa
email: [hidden email] · Web: www.up.ac.za/ggm · Mobile: +27 82 464 4294 · Tel: +27 12 420 3823


On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 2:16 AM Bruce Bannerman <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello Maria,

I do appreciate your passion towards this initiative and the outreach work that you do. 

However, I am very uncomfortable with the approach outlined in the proposal below.

The UN should appreciate the value of open source spatial software by now and be willing to contribute back to the open source community.

Therefore, I believe that the activities suggested below should be funded by the UN and not OSGeo.

Regarding the items in the proposal below:

Item 1)   If this is for a UN Project and they value OSGeo representation, then that should be a UN Project cost and not an OSGeo cost.

Item 2)   I’m not sure what this is, but I interpret it to be for the preparation of QGIS training material specific for UN staff. If so, then again this should be a UN funded activity. The UN may wish to view this as a voluntary contribution that they make to the QGIS Community in part recognition of the benefit that they are receiving from the use of the QGIS Open Source software. This is also an activity that could be undertaken by an commercial organisation that specialises in working with this type of open source software.

Item 3)  I’m not sure what this is, but it also sounds like an activity that would be for UN benefit. If so, then again, they should be paying.

IMO, we need to push back against the expectation that open source is free (as in free beer). There is always a cost to produce and maintain open source and I would like to see those who benefit from using the software to be encouraged to contribute back to the open source communities.

I have been working actively for many years within one of the UN Agencies and am making some real headway towards this agency accepting the value of an open source approach to a specific problem that they have.  I can’t discuss this publicly yet. I’m sure that you’ll appreciate that the wheels can move quite slowly at times as people become comfortable with what is in reality a new approach for them and they have internal processes that need to be followed.

If I have misunderstood the intent of the proposed items in your email, then I apologise in advance.

Kind regards,

Bruce




On 16 Jan 2019, at 06:03, Maria Antonia Brovelli <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear All
it is time to make the proposal to OSGeo Board for the activities of the UN Committee in 2019.
We have the UN Open GIS Initiative entering in its third year of activities; many people of the UN staff have been trained in QGIS and PostGIS (more than 100) thanks to volunteers of GeoForAll. 
Currently, there is the third edition of QGIS (Victoria Rautenbach chairing the initiative; Thomas Mueller and Cameron Green mentoring)and the second one of PostGIS (Ivana Ivanova chairing, Paolo Corti, Oliva Martin Sanchez, and Gregory Giuliani mentoring). 

About UN Open GIS Initiative the request will be:
1) support for attending a couple of project meeting and training - (one will be probably in South Sudan) 5000$
2) one UN OSGeo Challenge (similar to what we organized last year) to prepare a new training material course on PostGIS (the one we are using, which is a Boundless one, has to be updated and re-built considering the experience of the trainees and trainers). The budget for this initiative will be 3000 $, the same as the initiatives of last year. In case we got financed, Ivana Ivanova and I can be the mentor of the winner of the Challenge.
3) Moreover, we can ask some budget for another training course about SDGs and open data/open software. Last year Codrina Maria Ilie was the winner and the training material is almost ready and will be released soon (it is about the computation of SDG indicator 9.1.1 using QGIS). The budget can be 3000 $, the same as last year and Serena Coetzee and I can be the mentor.
Obviously if you there is somebody who wants to offer her/himself as a mentor, they are more than welcome!
Please let me know if you have comments. If none, I will proceed with the proposal.
Bets regards,
Maria






Please pay attention to these two opportunities:

A new IJGI Special Issue
"State-of-the-Art in Spatial Information Science"
(deadline for submissions: 1 may 2019)


A new Transaction in GIS  Special Issue
"Open Source Geospatial Science, Software and Education"
(deadline for abstract submissions: 15 february 2019)



----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)
Tel. +39-02-23996242 - Mob. +39-328-0023867,  [hidden email]




 

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un
-- 
Cameron Shorter
Technology Demystifier
Open Technologies and Geospatial Consultant

M +61 (0) 419 142 254
_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un
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|

Re: Budget proposal 2019

Maria Antonia Brovelli

Thanks, Bruce. Can you put your name and gmail in the wiki page?

Best regards

Maria


Please pay attention to these two opportunities:

A new IJGI Special Issue
"State-of-the-Art in Spatial Information Science"
(deadline for submissions: 1 may 2019)


A new Transaction in GIS  Special Issue
"Open Source Geospatial Science, Software and Education"
(deadline for abstract submissions: 15 february 2019)



----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)

Tel. +39-02-23996242 - Mob. +39-328-0023867,  [hidden email][hidden email]

https://orcid.org/0000-0003-3161-556





 


Da: Bruce Bannerman <[hidden email]>
Inviato: domenica 20 gennaio 2019 08:32:26
A: Maria Antonia Brovelli
Cc: Nils Hempelmann; Cameron Shorter; Hae-Kyong Kang; [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Oggetto: Re: [UN] Budget proposal 2019
 
Proposal 2 suits me best.

Proposal 1 is at 1am my time. I won’t be able to make it.

Cheers,

Bruce

On 20 Jan 2019, at 06:58, Maria Antonia Brovelli <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear All

thank you a lot for your great comments and suggestions. 

I suggest doing in this way.  As OSGeo is a partner of the UN Open GIS Initiative, given the fact that the Challenges of last year have given OSGeo good visibility - and many people have contributed to this success, I propose to go ahead with them. 


Hae-Kyong, you proposed a new challenge based on Spiral 3. In order to submit the proposal to OSGeo, I need to provide a description of the challenge. Can you send me it by Monday my morning? I want to submit the proposal of the budget on Monday at my lunchtime and therefore I need you to send the proposal before.  I give for granted that you want to volunteer as the mentor of the challenge (as you did in 2018), do you?


Moreover, Nils, Bruce, Cameron, and everybody who is now interested in contributing to the activities of the UN Committee with new projects: I propose to have a meeting for discussing the initiatives that you want to propose. 

With Serena, we defined two possible time slots. Please find details on the wiki page of the OSGeo UN Committee under Meeting January 2019  (https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/UnitedNations_Committee). 


Thanks to everybody. I'm looking forward to meeting you at the end of January.

Best regards,

Maria



Please pay attention to these two opportunities:

A new IJGI Special Issue
"State-of-the-Art in Spatial Information Science"
(deadline for submissions: 1 may 2019)


A new Transaction in GIS  Special Issue
"Open Source Geospatial Science, Software and Education"
(deadline for abstract submissions: 15 february 2019)



----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)

Tel. +39-02-23996242 - Mob. +39-328-0023867,  [hidden email][hidden email]

https://orcid.org/0000-0003-3161-556





 


Da: UN <[hidden email]> per conto di Bruce Bannerman <[hidden email]>
Inviato: giovedì 17 gennaio 2019 21:33:51
A: Nils Hempelmann
Cc: [hidden email]
Oggetto: Re: [UN] Budget proposal 2019
 
Hi Nils,

OK by me.

However, I will need to insist that we use Chatham House Rule [1].

Cheers,

Bruce



On 17 Jan 2019, at 23:13, Nils Hempelmann <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear all 

Its nice to read this discussion. Would it make sence and be possible to have a video/telefon converence for a profund exchange? 
Dealing with very big organisations like UN needs multiple strategies. Its good that we are coming up with concrete proposals and alternative ideas. 

Cheers nils 


Envoyé depuis mon smartphone. 

-------- Message d'origine --------
De : Cameron Shorter <[hidden email]>
Date : 17/01/2019 12:34 (GMT+01:00)
Objet : Re: [UN] Budget proposal 2019

Hi Serena, which I acknowledge the value of your points, I'm inclined to agree with Bruce's points that the OSGeo volunteer organisation shouldn't be subsidising a funded organisations such as the UN (who I've heard are able to find money to purchase ESRI licenses).

It is hard to teach an organisation like the UN that they should pay to gain the value of Open Source if we keep diverting our budget toward giving them a free ride.

Warm regards, Cameron

On 17/1/19 7:48 am, Bruce Bannerman wrote:
Thanks for the more detailed information Serena.

I understand the issue of supporting young and not so young OSGeo volunteers. This is also behind the point that I was trying to make.

There is a principle here, that as a volunteer organisation OSGeo can’t afford to be subsidising other organisations’ use of open source. These organisations need to be encouraged to contribute back to the community, whether through funding, or in kind contributions of staff time and effort, etc.

However, I will not pursue my intervention further at this stage. I appreciate the work that this team is doing and do not wish to derail that effort and good work.

Kind regards,

Bruce


On 16 Jan 2019, at 22:48, Serena Coetzee <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Bruce,

thanks for the constructive comments.

OSGeo is a partner in the UN Open GIS initiative and, as partner, OSGeo has to support the project. Participation in the initiative is done by volunteers (from OSGeo) and we can't ask the volunteers to pay with their money. This is the reason for the first request. OSGeo partnering in the UN Open GIS initiative should benefit you and all other OSGeo members. Let us know if there anything that the person travelling to Sudan can do to also improve your case.

About the development of training material, this raises awareness of open source software for geospatial and contributes to capacity building in OSGeo. It is a way to support young OSGeo members. Such challenges are common place in industry. The mentors are working for OSGeo as volunteers, increasing the visibility of OSGeo within the UN and beyond. 

Regards,
Serena

Serena Coetzee (GPr GISc 1245)

University of Pretoria
Director: Centre for Geoinformation Science
Professor and Head of Department Geography, Geoinformatics and Meteorology
Geography Building 3-5, Hatfield Campus, Lynnwood Road, Hatfield, 0083, South Africa
email: [hidden email] · Web: www.up.ac.za/ggm · Mobile: +27 82 464 4294 · Tel: +27 12 420 3823


On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 2:16 AM Bruce Bannerman <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello Maria,

I do appreciate your passion towards this initiative and the outreach work that you do. 

However, I am very uncomfortable with the approach outlined in the proposal below.

The UN should appreciate the value of open source spatial software by now and be willing to contribute back to the open source community.

Therefore, I believe that the activities suggested below should be funded by the UN and not OSGeo.

Regarding the items in the proposal below:

Item 1)   If this is for a UN Project and they value OSGeo representation, then that should be a UN Project cost and not an OSGeo cost.

Item 2)   I’m not sure what this is, but I interpret it to be for the preparation of QGIS training material specific for UN staff. If so, then again this should be a UN funded activity. The UN may wish to view this as a voluntary contribution that they make to the QGIS Community in part recognition of the benefit that they are receiving from the use of the QGIS Open Source software. This is also an activity that could be undertaken by an commercial organisation that specialises in working with this type of open source software.

Item 3)  I’m not sure what this is, but it also sounds like an activity that would be for UN benefit. If so, then again, they should be paying.

IMO, we need to push back against the expectation that open source is free (as in free beer). There is always a cost to produce and maintain open source and I would like to see those who benefit from using the software to be encouraged to contribute back to the open source communities.

I have been working actively for many years within one of the UN Agencies and am making some real headway towards this agency accepting the value of an open source approach to a specific problem that they have.  I can’t discuss this publicly yet. I’m sure that you’ll appreciate that the wheels can move quite slowly at times as people become comfortable with what is in reality a new approach for them and they have internal processes that need to be followed.

If I have misunderstood the intent of the proposed items in your email, then I apologise in advance.

Kind regards,

Bruce




On 16 Jan 2019, at 06:03, Maria Antonia Brovelli <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear All
it is time to make the proposal to OSGeo Board for the activities of the UN Committee in 2019.
We have the UN Open GIS Initiative entering in its third year of activities; many people of the UN staff have been trained in QGIS and PostGIS (more than 100) thanks to volunteers of GeoForAll. 
Currently, there is the third edition of QGIS (Victoria Rautenbach chairing the initiative; Thomas Mueller and Cameron Green mentoring)and the second one of PostGIS (Ivana Ivanova chairing, Paolo Corti, Oliva Martin Sanchez, and Gregory Giuliani mentoring). 

About UN Open GIS Initiative the request will be:
1) support for attending a couple of project meeting and training - (one will be probably in South Sudan) 5000$
2) one UN OSGeo Challenge (similar to what we organized last year) to prepare a new training material course on PostGIS (the one we are using, which is a Boundless one, has to be updated and re-built considering the experience of the trainees and trainers). The budget for this initiative will be 3000 $, the same as the initiatives of last year. In case we got financed, Ivana Ivanova and I can be the mentor of the winner of the Challenge.
3) Moreover, we can ask some budget for another training course about SDGs and open data/open software. Last year Codrina Maria Ilie was the winner and the training material is almost ready and will be released soon (it is about the computation of SDG indicator 9.1.1 using QGIS). The budget can be 3000 $, the same as last year and Serena Coetzee and I can be the mentor.
Obviously if you there is somebody who wants to offer her/himself as a mentor, they are more than welcome!
Please let me know if you have comments. If none, I will proceed with the proposal.
Bets regards,
Maria






Please pay attention to these two opportunities:

A new IJGI Special Issue
"State-of-the-Art in Spatial Information Science"
(deadline for submissions: 1 may 2019)


A new Transaction in GIS  Special Issue
"Open Source Geospatial Science, Software and Education"
(deadline for abstract submissions: 15 february 2019)



----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)
Tel. +39-02-23996242 - Mob. +39-328-0023867,  [hidden email]




 

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un
-- 
Cameron Shorter
Technology Demystifier
Open Technologies and Geospatial Consultant

M +61 (0) 419 142 254
_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un
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Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Budget proposal 2019

Nils Hempelmann
In reply to this post by Bruce Bannerman-3

Both proposals suits me.

I can't log in to edit the page my account is ```in a pending account request```

Thanks for the organization.

Cheers
nils


On 20/01/2019 08:32, Bruce Bannerman wrote:
Proposal 2 suits me best.

Proposal 1 is at 1am my time. I won’t be able to make it.

Cheers,

Bruce

On 20 Jan 2019, at 06:58, Maria Antonia Brovelli <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear All

thank you a lot for your great comments and suggestions. 

I suggest doing in this way.  As OSGeo is a partner of the UN Open GIS Initiative, given the fact that the Challenges of last year have given OSGeo good visibility - and many people have contributed to this success, I propose to go ahead with them. 


Hae-Kyong, you proposed a new challenge based on Spiral 3. In order to submit the proposal to OSGeo, I need to provide a description of the challenge. Can you send me it by Monday my morning? I want to submit the proposal of the budget on Monday at my lunchtime and therefore I need you to send the proposal before.  I give for granted that you want to volunteer as the mentor of the challenge (as you did in 2018), do you?


Moreover, Nils, Bruce, Cameron, and everybody who is now interested in contributing to the activities of the UN Committee with new projects: I propose to have a meeting for discussing the initiatives that you want to propose. 

With Serena, we defined two possible time slots. Please find details on the wiki page of the OSGeo UN Committee under Meeting January 2019  (https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/UnitedNations_Committee). 


Thanks to everybody. I'm looking forward to meeting you at the end of January.

Best regards,

Maria



Please pay attention to these two opportunities:

A new IJGI Special Issue
"State-of-the-Art in Spatial Information Science"
(deadline for submissions: 1 may 2019)


A new Transaction in GIS  Special Issue
"Open Source Geospatial Science, Software and Education"
(deadline for abstract submissions: 15 february 2019)



----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)

Tel. +39-02-23996242 - Mob. +39-328-0023867,  [hidden email]

https://orcid.org/0000-0003-3161-556





 


Da: UN <[hidden email]> per conto di Bruce Bannerman <[hidden email]>
Inviato: giovedì 17 gennaio 2019 21:33:51
A: Nils Hempelmann
Cc: [hidden email]
Oggetto: Re: [UN] Budget proposal 2019
 
Hi Nils,

OK by me.

However, I will need to insist that we use Chatham House Rule [1].

Cheers,

Bruce



On 17 Jan 2019, at 23:13, Nils Hempelmann <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear all 

Its nice to read this discussion. Would it make sence and be possible to have a video/telefon converence for a profund exchange? 
Dealing with very big organisations like UN needs multiple strategies. Its good that we are coming up with concrete proposals and alternative ideas. 

Cheers nils 


Envoyé depuis mon smartphone. 

-------- Message d'origine --------
De : Cameron Shorter <[hidden email]>
Date : 17/01/2019 12:34 (GMT+01:00)
Objet : Re: [UN] Budget proposal 2019

Hi Serena, which I acknowledge the value of your points, I'm inclined to agree with Bruce's points that the OSGeo volunteer organisation shouldn't be subsidising a funded organisations such as the UN (who I've heard are able to find money to purchase ESRI licenses).

It is hard to teach an organisation like the UN that they should pay to gain the value of Open Source if we keep diverting our budget toward giving them a free ride.

Warm regards, Cameron

On 17/1/19 7:48 am, Bruce Bannerman wrote:
Thanks for the more detailed information Serena.

I understand the issue of supporting young and not so young OSGeo volunteers. This is also behind the point that I was trying to make.

There is a principle here, that as a volunteer organisation OSGeo can’t afford to be subsidising other organisations’ use of open source. These organisations need to be encouraged to contribute back to the community, whether through funding, or in kind contributions of staff time and effort, etc.

However, I will not pursue my intervention further at this stage. I appreciate the work that this team is doing and do not wish to derail that effort and good work.

Kind regards,

Bruce


On 16 Jan 2019, at 22:48, Serena Coetzee <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Bruce,

thanks for the constructive comments.

OSGeo is a partner in the UN Open GIS initiative and, as partner, OSGeo has to support the project. Participation in the initiative is done by volunteers (from OSGeo) and we can't ask the volunteers to pay with their money. This is the reason for the first request. OSGeo partnering in the UN Open GIS initiative should benefit you and all other OSGeo members. Let us know if there anything that the person travelling to Sudan can do to also improve your case.

About the development of training material, this raises awareness of open source software for geospatial and contributes to capacity building in OSGeo. It is a way to support young OSGeo members. Such challenges are common place in industry. The mentors are working for OSGeo as volunteers, increasing the visibility of OSGeo within the UN and beyond. 

Regards,
Serena

Serena Coetzee (GPr GISc 1245)

University of Pretoria
Director: Centre for Geoinformation Science
Professor and Head of Department Geography, Geoinformatics and Meteorology
Geography Building 3-5, Hatfield Campus, Lynnwood Road, Hatfield, 0083, South Africa
email: [hidden email] · Web: www.up.ac.za/ggm · Mobile: +27 82 464 4294 · Tel: +27 12 420 3823


On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 2:16 AM Bruce Bannerman <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello Maria,

I do appreciate your passion towards this initiative and the outreach work that you do. 

However, I am very uncomfortable with the approach outlined in the proposal below.

The UN should appreciate the value of open source spatial software by now and be willing to contribute back to the open source community.

Therefore, I believe that the activities suggested below should be funded by the UN and not OSGeo.

Regarding the items in the proposal below:

Item 1)   If this is for a UN Project and they value OSGeo representation, then that should be a UN Project cost and not an OSGeo cost.

Item 2)   I’m not sure what this is, but I interpret it to be for the preparation of QGIS training material specific for UN staff. If so, then again this should be a UN funded activity. The UN may wish to view this as a voluntary contribution that they make to the QGIS Community in part recognition of the benefit that they are receiving from the use of the QGIS Open Source software. This is also an activity that could be undertaken by an commercial organisation that specialises in working with this type of open source software.

Item 3)  I’m not sure what this is, but it also sounds like an activity that would be for UN benefit. If so, then again, they should be paying.

IMO, we need to push back against the expectation that open source is free (as in free beer). There is always a cost to produce and maintain open source and I would like to see those who benefit from using the software to be encouraged to contribute back to the open source communities.

I have been working actively for many years within one of the UN Agencies and am making some real headway towards this agency accepting the value of an open source approach to a specific problem that they have.  I can’t discuss this publicly yet. I’m sure that you’ll appreciate that the wheels can move quite slowly at times as people become comfortable with what is in reality a new approach for them and they have internal processes that need to be followed.

If I have misunderstood the intent of the proposed items in your email, then I apologise in advance.

Kind regards,

Bruce




On 16 Jan 2019, at 06:03, Maria Antonia Brovelli <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear All
it is time to make the proposal to OSGeo Board for the activities of the UN Committee in 2019.
We have the UN Open GIS Initiative entering in its third year of activities; many people of the UN staff have been trained in QGIS and PostGIS (more than 100) thanks to volunteers of GeoForAll. 
Currently, there is the third edition of QGIS (Victoria Rautenbach chairing the initiative; Thomas Mueller and Cameron Green mentoring)and the second one of PostGIS (Ivana Ivanova chairing, Paolo Corti, Oliva Martin Sanchez, and Gregory Giuliani mentoring). 

About UN Open GIS Initiative the request will be:
1) support for attending a couple of project meeting and training - (one will be probably in South Sudan) 5000$
2) one UN OSGeo Challenge (similar to what we organized last year) to prepare a new training material course on PostGIS (the one we are using, which is a Boundless one, has to be updated and re-built considering the experience of the trainees and trainers). The budget for this initiative will be 3000 $, the same as the initiatives of last year. In case we got financed, Ivana Ivanova and I can be the mentor of the winner of the Challenge.
3) Moreover, we can ask some budget for another training course about SDGs and open data/open software. Last year Codrina Maria Ilie was the winner and the training material is almost ready and will be released soon (it is about the computation of SDG indicator 9.1.1 using QGIS). The budget can be 3000 $, the same as last year and Serena Coetzee and I can be the mentor.
Obviously if you there is somebody who wants to offer her/himself as a mentor, they are more than welcome!
Please let me know if you have comments. If none, I will proceed with the proposal.
Bets regards,
Maria






Please pay attention to these two opportunities:

A new IJGI Special Issue
"State-of-the-Art in Spatial Information Science"
(deadline for submissions: 1 may 2019)


A new Transaction in GIS  Special Issue
"Open Source Geospatial Science, Software and Education"
(deadline for abstract submissions: 15 february 2019)



----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)
Tel. +39-02-23996242 - Mob. +39-328-0023867,  [hidden email]




 

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un
-- 
Cameron Shorter
Technology Demystifier
Open Technologies and Geospatial Consultant

M +61 (0) 419 142 254
_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un
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Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Budget proposal 2019

Maria Antonia Brovelli

Thanks. Please do it in next days as soon as you have a working OSGeo account.

Best,

Maria


Please pay attention to these two opportunities:

A new IJGI Special Issue
"State-of-the-Art in Spatial Information Science"
(deadline for submissions: 1 may 2019)


A new Transaction in GIS  Special Issue
"Open Source Geospatial Science, Software and Education"
(deadline for abstract submissions: 15 february 2019)



----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)

Tel. +39-02-23996242 - Mob. +39-328-0023867,  [hidden email][hidden email]

https://orcid.org/0000-0003-3161-556





 


Da: Nils Hempelmann <[hidden email]>
Inviato: domenica 20 gennaio 2019 10:41:09
A: Bruce Bannerman; Maria Antonia Brovelli
Cc: Cameron Shorter; Hae-Kyong Kang; [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Oggetto: Re: [UN] Budget proposal 2019
 

Both proposals suits me.

I can't log in to edit the page my account is ```in a pending account request```

Thanks for the organization.

Cheers
nils


On 20/01/2019 08:32, Bruce Bannerman wrote:
Proposal 2 suits me best.

Proposal 1 is at 1am my time. I won’t be able to make it.

Cheers,

Bruce

On 20 Jan 2019, at 06:58, Maria Antonia Brovelli <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear All

thank you a lot for your great comments and suggestions. 

I suggest doing in this way.  As OSGeo is a partner of the UN Open GIS Initiative, given the fact that the Challenges of last year have given OSGeo good visibility - and many people have contributed to this success, I propose to go ahead with them. 


Hae-Kyong, you proposed a new challenge based on Spiral 3. In order to submit the proposal to OSGeo, I need to provide a description of the challenge. Can you send me it by Monday my morning? I want to submit the proposal of the budget on Monday at my lunchtime and therefore I need you to send the proposal before.  I give for granted that you want to volunteer as the mentor of the challenge (as you did in 2018), do you?


Moreover, Nils, Bruce, Cameron, and everybody who is now interested in contributing to the activities of the UN Committee with new projects: I propose to have a meeting for discussing the initiatives that you want to propose. 

With Serena, we defined two possible time slots. Please find details on the wiki page of the OSGeo UN Committee under Meeting January 2019  (https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/UnitedNations_Committee). 


Thanks to everybody. I'm looking forward to meeting you at the end of January.

Best regards,

Maria



Please pay attention to these two opportunities:

A new IJGI Special Issue
"State-of-the-Art in Spatial Information Science"
(deadline for submissions: 1 may 2019)


A new Transaction in GIS  Special Issue
"Open Source Geospatial Science, Software and Education"
(deadline for abstract submissions: 15 february 2019)



----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)

Tel. +39-02-23996242 - Mob. +39-328-0023867,  [hidden email]

https://orcid.org/0000-0003-3161-556





 


Da: UN <[hidden email]> per conto di Bruce Bannerman <[hidden email]>
Inviato: giovedì 17 gennaio 2019 21:33:51
A: Nils Hempelmann
Cc: [hidden email]
Oggetto: Re: [UN] Budget proposal 2019
 
Hi Nils,

OK by me.

However, I will need to insist that we use Chatham House Rule [1].

Cheers,

Bruce



On 17 Jan 2019, at 23:13, Nils Hempelmann <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear all 

Its nice to read this discussion. Would it make sence and be possible to have a video/telefon converence for a profund exchange? 
Dealing with very big organisations like UN needs multiple strategies. Its good that we are coming up with concrete proposals and alternative ideas. 

Cheers nils 


Envoyé depuis mon smartphone. 

-------- Message d'origine --------
De : Cameron Shorter <[hidden email]>
Date : 17/01/2019 12:34 (GMT+01:00)
Objet : Re: [UN] Budget proposal 2019

Hi Serena, which I acknowledge the value of your points, I'm inclined to agree with Bruce's points that the OSGeo volunteer organisation shouldn't be subsidising a funded organisations such as the UN (who I've heard are able to find money to purchase ESRI licenses).

It is hard to teach an organisation like the UN that they should pay to gain the value of Open Source if we keep diverting our budget toward giving them a free ride.

Warm regards, Cameron

On 17/1/19 7:48 am, Bruce Bannerman wrote:
Thanks for the more detailed information Serena.

I understand the issue of supporting young and not so young OSGeo volunteers. This is also behind the point that I was trying to make.

There is a principle here, that as a volunteer organisation OSGeo can’t afford to be subsidising other organisations’ use of open source. These organisations need to be encouraged to contribute back to the community, whether through funding, or in kind contributions of staff time and effort, etc.

However, I will not pursue my intervention further at this stage. I appreciate the work that this team is doing and do not wish to derail that effort and good work.

Kind regards,

Bruce


On 16 Jan 2019, at 22:48, Serena Coetzee <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Bruce,

thanks for the constructive comments.

OSGeo is a partner in the UN Open GIS initiative and, as partner, OSGeo has to support the project. Participation in the initiative is done by volunteers (from OSGeo) and we can't ask the volunteers to pay with their money. This is the reason for the first request. OSGeo partnering in the UN Open GIS initiative should benefit you and all other OSGeo members. Let us know if there anything that the person travelling to Sudan can do to also improve your case.

About the development of training material, this raises awareness of open source software for geospatial and contributes to capacity building in OSGeo. It is a way to support young OSGeo members. Such challenges are common place in industry. The mentors are working for OSGeo as volunteers, increasing the visibility of OSGeo within the UN and beyond. 

Regards,
Serena

Serena Coetzee (GPr GISc 1245)

University of Pretoria
Director: Centre for Geoinformation Science
Professor and Head of Department Geography, Geoinformatics and Meteorology
Geography Building 3-5, Hatfield Campus, Lynnwood Road, Hatfield, 0083, South Africa
email: [hidden email] · Web: www.up.ac.za/ggm · Mobile: +27 82 464 4294 · Tel: +27 12 420 3823


On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 2:16 AM Bruce Bannerman <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello Maria,

I do appreciate your passion towards this initiative and the outreach work that you do. 

However, I am very uncomfortable with the approach outlined in the proposal below.

The UN should appreciate the value of open source spatial software by now and be willing to contribute back to the open source community.

Therefore, I believe that the activities suggested below should be funded by the UN and not OSGeo.

Regarding the items in the proposal below:

Item 1)   If this is for a UN Project and they value OSGeo representation, then that should be a UN Project cost and not an OSGeo cost.

Item 2)   I’m not sure what this is, but I interpret it to be for the preparation of QGIS training material specific for UN staff. If so, then again this should be a UN funded activity. The UN may wish to view this as a voluntary contribution that they make to the QGIS Community in part recognition of the benefit that they are receiving from the use of the QGIS Open Source software. This is also an activity that could be undertaken by an commercial organisation that specialises in working with this type of open source software.

Item 3)  I’m not sure what this is, but it also sounds like an activity that would be for UN benefit. If so, then again, they should be paying.

IMO, we need to push back against the expectation that open source is free (as in free beer). There is always a cost to produce and maintain open source and I would like to see those who benefit from using the software to be encouraged to contribute back to the open source communities.

I have been working actively for many years within one of the UN Agencies and am making some real headway towards this agency accepting the value of an open source approach to a specific problem that they have.  I can’t discuss this publicly yet. I’m sure that you’ll appreciate that the wheels can move quite slowly at times as people become comfortable with what is in reality a new approach for them and they have internal processes that need to be followed.

If I have misunderstood the intent of the proposed items in your email, then I apologise in advance.

Kind regards,

Bruce




On 16 Jan 2019, at 06:03, Maria Antonia Brovelli <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear All
it is time to make the proposal to OSGeo Board for the activities of the UN Committee in 2019.
We have the UN Open GIS Initiative entering in its third year of activities; many people of the UN staff have been trained in QGIS and PostGIS (more than 100) thanks to volunteers of GeoForAll. 
Currently, there is the third edition of QGIS (Victoria Rautenbach chairing the initiative; Thomas Mueller and Cameron Green mentoring)and the second one of PostGIS (Ivana Ivanova chairing, Paolo Corti, Oliva Martin Sanchez, and Gregory Giuliani mentoring). 

About UN Open GIS Initiative the request will be:
1) support for attending a couple of project meeting and training - (one will be probably in South Sudan) 5000$
2) one UN OSGeo Challenge (similar to what we organized last year) to prepare a new training material course on PostGIS (the one we are using, which is a Boundless one, has to be updated and re-built considering the experience of the trainees and trainers). The budget for this initiative will be 3000 $, the same as the initiatives of last year. In case we got financed, Ivana Ivanova and I can be the mentor of the winner of the Challenge.
3) Moreover, we can ask some budget for another training course about SDGs and open data/open software. Last year Codrina Maria Ilie was the winner and the training material is almost ready and will be released soon (it is about the computation of SDG indicator 9.1.1 using QGIS). The budget can be 3000 $, the same as last year and Serena Coetzee and I can be the mentor.
Obviously if you there is somebody who wants to offer her/himself as a mentor, they are more than welcome!
Please let me know if you have comments. If none, I will proceed with the proposal.
Bets regards,
Maria






Please pay attention to these two opportunities:

A new IJGI Special Issue
"State-of-the-Art in Spatial Information Science"
(deadline for submissions: 1 may 2019)


A new Transaction in GIS  Special Issue
"Open Source Geospatial Science, Software and Education"
(deadline for abstract submissions: 15 february 2019)



----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)
Tel. +39-02-23996242 - Mob. +39-328-0023867,  [hidden email]




 

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un
-- 
Cameron Shorter
Technology Demystifier
Open Technologies and Geospatial Consultant

M +61 (0) 419 142 254
_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Budget proposal 2019

Nils Hempelmann
Dear Maria. 
Who is responsible for the accounts? 
I am already waiting for the account since some weeks.

Cheers n. 

Envoyé depuis mon smartphone. 

-------- Message d'origine --------
De : Maria Antonia Brovelli <[hidden email]>
Date : 20/01/2019 11:06 (GMT+01:00)
À : Nils Hempelmann <[hidden email]>, Bruce Bannerman <[hidden email]>
Cc : Cameron Shorter <[hidden email]>, Hae-Kyong Kang <[hidden email]>, [hidden email], [hidden email]
Objet : Re: [UN] Budget proposal 2019

Thanks. Please do it in next days as soon as you have a working OSGeo account.

Best,

Maria


Please pay attention to these two opportunities:

A new IJGI Special Issue
"State-of-the-Art in Spatial Information Science"
(deadline for submissions: 1 may 2019)


A new Transaction in GIS  Special Issue
"Open Source Geospatial Science, Software and Education"
(deadline for abstract submissions: 15 february 2019)



----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)

Tel. +39-02-23996242 - Mob. +39-328-0023867,  [hidden email][hidden email]

https://orcid.org/0000-0003-3161-556





 


Da: Nils Hempelmann <[hidden email]>
Inviato: domenica 20 gennaio 2019 10:41:09
A: Bruce Bannerman; Maria Antonia Brovelli
Cc: Cameron Shorter; Hae-Kyong Kang; [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Oggetto: Re: [UN] Budget proposal 2019
 

Both proposals suits me.

I can't log in to edit the page my account is ```in a pending account request```

Thanks for the organization.

Cheers
nils


On 20/01/2019 08:32, Bruce Bannerman wrote:
Proposal 2 suits me best.

Proposal 1 is at 1am my time. I won’t be able to make it.

Cheers,

Bruce

On 20 Jan 2019, at 06:58, Maria Antonia Brovelli <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear All

thank you a lot for your great comments and suggestions. 

I suggest doing in this way.  As OSGeo is a partner of the UN Open GIS Initiative, given the fact that the Challenges of last year have given OSGeo good visibility - and many people have contributed to this success, I propose to go ahead with them. 


Hae-Kyong, you proposed a new challenge based on Spiral 3. In order to submit the proposal to OSGeo, I need to provide a description of the challenge. Can you send me it by Monday my morning? I want to submit the proposal of the budget on Monday at my lunchtime and therefore I need you to send the proposal before.  I give for granted that you want to volunteer as the mentor of the challenge (as you did in 2018), do you?


Moreover, Nils, Bruce, Cameron, and everybody who is now interested in contributing to the activities of the UN Committee with new projects: I propose to have a meeting for discussing the initiatives that you want to propose. 

With Serena, we defined two possible time slots. Please find details on the wiki page of the OSGeo UN Committee under Meeting January 2019  (https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/UnitedNations_Committee). 


Thanks to everybody. I'm looking forward to meeting you at the end of January.

Best regards,

Maria



Please pay attention to these two opportunities:

A new IJGI Special Issue
"State-of-the-Art in Spatial Information Science"
(deadline for submissions: 1 may 2019)


A new Transaction in GIS  Special Issue
"Open Source Geospatial Science, Software and Education"
(deadline for abstract submissions: 15 february 2019)



----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)

Tel. +39-02-23996242 - Mob. +39-328-0023867,  [hidden email]

https://orcid.org/0000-0003-3161-556





 


Da: UN <[hidden email]> per conto di Bruce Bannerman <[hidden email]>
Inviato: giovedì 17 gennaio 2019 21:33:51
A: Nils Hempelmann
Cc: [hidden email]
Oggetto: Re: [UN] Budget proposal 2019
 
Hi Nils,

OK by me.

However, I will need to insist that we use Chatham House Rule [1].

Cheers,

Bruce



On 17 Jan 2019, at 23:13, Nils Hempelmann <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear all 

Its nice to read this discussion. Would it make sence and be possible to have a video/telefon converence for a profund exchange? 
Dealing with very big organisations like UN needs multiple strategies. Its good that we are coming up with concrete proposals and alternative ideas. 

Cheers nils 


Envoyé depuis mon smartphone. 

-------- Message d'origine --------
De : Cameron Shorter <[hidden email]>
Date : 17/01/2019 12:34 (GMT+01:00)
Objet : Re: [UN] Budget proposal 2019

Hi Serena, which I acknowledge the value of your points, I'm inclined to agree with Bruce's points that the OSGeo volunteer organisation shouldn't be subsidising a funded organisations such as the UN (who I've heard are able to find money to purchase ESRI licenses).

It is hard to teach an organisation like the UN that they should pay to gain the value of Open Source if we keep diverting our budget toward giving them a free ride.

Warm regards, Cameron

On 17/1/19 7:48 am, Bruce Bannerman wrote:
Thanks for the more detailed information Serena.

I understand the issue of supporting young and not so young OSGeo volunteers. This is also behind the point that I was trying to make.

There is a principle here, that as a volunteer organisation OSGeo can’t afford to be subsidising other organisations’ use of open source. These organisations need to be encouraged to contribute back to the community, whether through funding, or in kind contributions of staff time and effort, etc.

However, I will not pursue my intervention further at this stage. I appreciate the work that this team is doing and do not wish to derail that effort and good work.

Kind regards,

Bruce


On 16 Jan 2019, at 22:48, Serena Coetzee <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Bruce,

thanks for the constructive comments.

OSGeo is a partner in the UN Open GIS initiative and, as partner, OSGeo has to support the project. Participation in the initiative is done by volunteers (from OSGeo) and we can't ask the volunteers to pay with their money. This is the reason for the first request. OSGeo partnering in the UN Open GIS initiative should benefit you and all other OSGeo members. Let us know if there anything that the person travelling to Sudan can do to also improve your case.

About the development of training material, this raises awareness of open source software for geospatial and contributes to capacity building in OSGeo. It is a way to support young OSGeo members. Such challenges are common place in industry. The mentors are working for OSGeo as volunteers, increasing the visibility of OSGeo within the UN and beyond. 

Regards,
Serena

Serena Coetzee (GPr GISc 1245)

University of Pretoria
Director: Centre for Geoinformation Science
Professor and Head of Department Geography, Geoinformatics and Meteorology
Geography Building 3-5, Hatfield Campus, Lynnwood Road, Hatfield, 0083, South Africa
email: [hidden email] · Web: www.up.ac.za/ggm · Mobile: +27 82 464 4294 · Tel: +27 12 420 3823


On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 2:16 AM Bruce Bannerman <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello Maria,

I do appreciate your passion towards this initiative and the outreach work that you do. 

However, I am very uncomfortable with the approach outlined in the proposal below.

The UN should appreciate the value of open source spatial software by now and be willing to contribute back to the open source community.

Therefore, I believe that the activities suggested below should be funded by the UN and not OSGeo.

Regarding the items in the proposal below:

Item 1)   If this is for a UN Project and they value OSGeo representation, then that should be a UN Project cost and not an OSGeo cost.

Item 2)   I’m not sure what this is, but I interpret it to be for the preparation of QGIS training material specific for UN staff. If so, then again this should be a UN funded activity. The UN may wish to view this as a voluntary contribution that they make to the QGIS Community in part recognition of the benefit that they are receiving from the use of the QGIS Open Source software. This is also an activity that could be undertaken by an commercial organisation that specialises in working with this type of open source software.

Item 3)  I’m not sure what this is, but it also sounds like an activity that would be for UN benefit. If so, then again, they should be paying.

IMO, we need to push back against the expectation that open source is free (as in free beer). There is always a cost to produce and maintain open source and I would like to see those who benefit from using the software to be encouraged to contribute back to the open source communities.

I have been working actively for many years within one of the UN Agencies and am making some real headway towards this agency accepting the value of an open source approach to a specific problem that they have.  I can’t discuss this publicly yet. I’m sure that you’ll appreciate that the wheels can move quite slowly at times as people become comfortable with what is in reality a new approach for them and they have internal processes that need to be followed.

If I have misunderstood the intent of the proposed items in your email, then I apologise in advance.

Kind regards,

Bruce




On 16 Jan 2019, at 06:03, Maria Antonia Brovelli <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear All
it is time to make the proposal to OSGeo Board for the activities of the UN Committee in 2019.
We have the UN Open GIS Initiative entering in its third year of activities; many people of the UN staff have been trained in QGIS and PostGIS (more than 100) thanks to volunteers of GeoForAll. 
Currently, there is the third edition of QGIS (Victoria Rautenbach chairing the initiative; Thomas Mueller and Cameron Green mentoring)and the second one of PostGIS (Ivana Ivanova chairing, Paolo Corti, Oliva Martin Sanchez, and Gregory Giuliani mentoring). 

About UN Open GIS Initiative the request will be:
1) support for attending a couple of project meeting and training - (one will be probably in South Sudan) 5000$
2) one UN OSGeo Challenge (similar to what we organized last year) to prepare a new training material course on PostGIS (the one we are using, which is a Boundless one, has to be updated and re-built considering the experience of the trainees and trainers). The budget for this initiative will be 3000 $, the same as the initiatives of last year. In case we got financed, Ivana Ivanova and I can be the mentor of the winner of the Challenge.
3) Moreover, we can ask some budget for another training course about SDGs and open data/open software. Last year Codrina Maria Ilie was the winner and the training material is almost ready and will be released soon (it is about the computation of SDG indicator 9.1.1 using QGIS). The budget can be 3000 $, the same as last year and Serena Coetzee and I can be the mentor.
Obviously if you there is somebody who wants to offer her/himself as a mentor, they are more than welcome!
Please let me know if you have comments. If none, I will proceed with the proposal.
Bets regards,
Maria






Please pay attention to these two opportunities:

A new IJGI Special Issue
"State-of-the-Art in Spatial Information Science"
(deadline for submissions: 1 may 2019)


A new Transaction in GIS  Special Issue
"Open Source Geospatial Science, Software and Education"
(deadline for abstract submissions: 15 february 2019)



----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)
Tel. +39-02-23996242 - Mob. +39-328-0023867,  [hidden email]




 

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un
-- 
Cameron Shorter
Technology Demystifier
Open Technologies and Geospatial Consultant

M +61 (0) 419 142 254
_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Budget proposal 2019

Maria Antonia Brovelli

This is something that I have no idea. I subscribed many years ago. Please write to OSGeo mailing list and ask.

Best,

Maria


Please pay attention to these two opportunities:

A new IJGI Special Issue
"State-of-the-Art in Spatial Information Science"
(deadline for submissions: 1 may 2019)


A new Transaction in GIS  Special Issue
"Open Source Geospatial Science, Software and Education"
(deadline for abstract submissions: 15 february 2019)



----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)

Tel. +39-02-23996242 - Mob. +39-328-0023867,  [hidden email][hidden email]

https://orcid.org/0000-0003-3161-556





 


Da: Nils Hempelmann <[hidden email]>
Inviato: domenica 20 gennaio 2019 11:11:06
A: Maria Antonia Brovelli; Bruce Bannerman
Cc: Cameron Shorter; Hae-Kyong Kang; [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Oggetto: Re: [UN] Budget proposal 2019
 
Dear Maria. 
Who is responsible for the accounts? 
I am already waiting for the account since some weeks.

Cheers n. 

Envoyé depuis mon smartphone. 

-------- Message d'origine --------
De : Maria Antonia Brovelli <[hidden email]>
Date : 20/01/2019 11:06 (GMT+01:00)
À : Nils Hempelmann <[hidden email]>, Bruce Bannerman <[hidden email]>
Cc : Cameron Shorter <[hidden email]>, Hae-Kyong Kang <[hidden email]>, [hidden email], [hidden email]
Objet : Re: [UN] Budget proposal 2019

Thanks. Please do it in next days as soon as you have a working OSGeo account.

Best,

Maria


Please pay attention to these two opportunities:

A new IJGI Special Issue
"State-of-the-Art in Spatial Information Science"
(deadline for submissions: 1 may 2019)


A new Transaction in GIS  Special Issue
"Open Source Geospatial Science, Software and Education"
(deadline for abstract submissions: 15 february 2019)



----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)

Tel. +39-02-23996242 - Mob. +39-328-0023867,  [hidden email][hidden email]

https://orcid.org/0000-0003-3161-556





 


Da: Nils Hempelmann <[hidden email]>
Inviato: domenica 20 gennaio 2019 10:41:09
A: Bruce Bannerman; Maria Antonia Brovelli
Cc: Cameron Shorter; Hae-Kyong Kang; [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Oggetto: Re: [UN] Budget proposal 2019
 

Both proposals suits me.

I can't log in to edit the page my account is ```in a pending account request```

Thanks for the organization.

Cheers
nils


On 20/01/2019 08:32, Bruce Bannerman wrote:
Proposal 2 suits me best.

Proposal 1 is at 1am my time. I won’t be able to make it.

Cheers,

Bruce

On 20 Jan 2019, at 06:58, Maria Antonia Brovelli <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear All

thank you a lot for your great comments and suggestions. 

I suggest doing in this way.  As OSGeo is a partner of the UN Open GIS Initiative, given the fact that the Challenges of last year have given OSGeo good visibility - and many people have contributed to this success, I propose to go ahead with them. 


Hae-Kyong, you proposed a new challenge based on Spiral 3. In order to submit the proposal to OSGeo, I need to provide a description of the challenge. Can you send me it by Monday my morning? I want to submit the proposal of the budget on Monday at my lunchtime and therefore I need you to send the proposal before.  I give for granted that you want to volunteer as the mentor of the challenge (as you did in 2018), do you?


Moreover, Nils, Bruce, Cameron, and everybody who is now interested in contributing to the activities of the UN Committee with new projects: I propose to have a meeting for discussing the initiatives that you want to propose. 

With Serena, we defined two possible time slots. Please find details on the wiki page of the OSGeo UN Committee under Meeting January 2019  (https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/UnitedNations_Committee). 


Thanks to everybody. I'm looking forward to meeting you at the end of January.

Best regards,

Maria



Please pay attention to these two opportunities:

A new IJGI Special Issue
"State-of-the-Art in Spatial Information Science"
(deadline for submissions: 1 may 2019)


A new Transaction in GIS  Special Issue
"Open Source Geospatial Science, Software and Education"
(deadline for abstract submissions: 15 february 2019)



----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)

Tel. +39-02-23996242 - Mob. +39-328-0023867,  [hidden email]

https://orcid.org/0000-0003-3161-556





 


Da: UN <[hidden email]> per conto di Bruce Bannerman <[hidden email]>
Inviato: giovedì 17 gennaio 2019 21:33:51
A: Nils Hempelmann
Cc: [hidden email]
Oggetto: Re: [UN] Budget proposal 2019
 
Hi Nils,

OK by me.

However, I will need to insist that we use Chatham House Rule [1].

Cheers,

Bruce



On 17 Jan 2019, at 23:13, Nils Hempelmann <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear all 

Its nice to read this discussion. Would it make sence and be possible to have a video/telefon converence for a profund exchange? 
Dealing with very big organisations like UN needs multiple strategies. Its good that we are coming up with concrete proposals and alternative ideas. 

Cheers nils 


Envoyé depuis mon smartphone. 

-------- Message d'origine --------
De : Cameron Shorter <[hidden email]>
Date : 17/01/2019 12:34 (GMT+01:00)
Objet : Re: [UN] Budget proposal 2019

Hi Serena, which I acknowledge the value of your points, I'm inclined to agree with Bruce's points that the OSGeo volunteer organisation shouldn't be subsidising a funded organisations such as the UN (who I've heard are able to find money to purchase ESRI licenses).

It is hard to teach an organisation like the UN that they should pay to gain the value of Open Source if we keep diverting our budget toward giving them a free ride.

Warm regards, Cameron

On 17/1/19 7:48 am, Bruce Bannerman wrote:
Thanks for the more detailed information Serena.

I understand the issue of supporting young and not so young OSGeo volunteers. This is also behind the point that I was trying to make.

There is a principle here, that as a volunteer organisation OSGeo can’t afford to be subsidising other organisations’ use of open source. These organisations need to be encouraged to contribute back to the community, whether through funding, or in kind contributions of staff time and effort, etc.

However, I will not pursue my intervention further at this stage. I appreciate the work that this team is doing and do not wish to derail that effort and good work.

Kind regards,

Bruce


On 16 Jan 2019, at 22:48, Serena Coetzee <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Bruce,

thanks for the constructive comments.

OSGeo is a partner in the UN Open GIS initiative and, as partner, OSGeo has to support the project. Participation in the initiative is done by volunteers (from OSGeo) and we can't ask the volunteers to pay with their money. This is the reason for the first request. OSGeo partnering in the UN Open GIS initiative should benefit you and all other OSGeo members. Let us know if there anything that the person travelling to Sudan can do to also improve your case.

About the development of training material, this raises awareness of open source software for geospatial and contributes to capacity building in OSGeo. It is a way to support young OSGeo members. Such challenges are common place in industry. The mentors are working for OSGeo as volunteers, increasing the visibility of OSGeo within the UN and beyond. 

Regards,
Serena

Serena Coetzee (GPr GISc 1245)

University of Pretoria
Director: Centre for Geoinformation Science
Professor and Head of Department Geography, Geoinformatics and Meteorology
Geography Building 3-5, Hatfield Campus, Lynnwood Road, Hatfield, 0083, South Africa
email: [hidden email] · Web: www.up.ac.za/ggm · Mobile: +27 82 464 4294 · Tel: +27 12 420 3823


On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 2:16 AM Bruce Bannerman <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello Maria,

I do appreciate your passion towards this initiative and the outreach work that you do. 

However, I am very uncomfortable with the approach outlined in the proposal below.

The UN should appreciate the value of open source spatial software by now and be willing to contribute back to the open source community.

Therefore, I believe that the activities suggested below should be funded by the UN and not OSGeo.

Regarding the items in the proposal below:

Item 1)   If this is for a UN Project and they value OSGeo representation, then that should be a UN Project cost and not an OSGeo cost.

Item 2)   I’m not sure what this is, but I interpret it to be for the preparation of QGIS training material specific for UN staff. If so, then again this should be a UN funded activity. The UN may wish to view this as a voluntary contribution that they make to the QGIS Community in part recognition of the benefit that they are receiving from the use of the QGIS Open Source software. This is also an activity that could be undertaken by an commercial organisation that specialises in working with this type of open source software.

Item 3)  I’m not sure what this is, but it also sounds like an activity that would be for UN benefit. If so, then again, they should be paying.

IMO, we need to push back against the expectation that open source is free (as in free beer). There is always a cost to produce and maintain open source and I would like to see those who benefit from using the software to be encouraged to contribute back to the open source communities.

I have been working actively for many years within one of the UN Agencies and am making some real headway towards this agency accepting the value of an open source approach to a specific problem that they have.  I can’t discuss this publicly yet. I’m sure that you’ll appreciate that the wheels can move quite slowly at times as people become comfortable with what is in reality a new approach for them and they have internal processes that need to be followed.

If I have misunderstood the intent of the proposed items in your email, then I apologise in advance.

Kind regards,

Bruce




On 16 Jan 2019, at 06:03, Maria Antonia Brovelli <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear All
it is time to make the proposal to OSGeo Board for the activities of the UN Committee in 2019.
We have the UN Open GIS Initiative entering in its third year of activities; many people of the UN staff have been trained in QGIS and PostGIS (more than 100) thanks to volunteers of GeoForAll. 
Currently, there is the third edition of QGIS (Victoria Rautenbach chairing the initiative; Thomas Mueller and Cameron Green mentoring)and the second one of PostGIS (Ivana Ivanova chairing, Paolo Corti, Oliva Martin Sanchez, and Gregory Giuliani mentoring). 

About UN Open GIS Initiative the request will be:
1) support for attending a couple of project meeting and training - (one will be probably in South Sudan) 5000$
2) one UN OSGeo Challenge (similar to what we organized last year) to prepare a new training material course on PostGIS (the one we are using, which is a Boundless one, has to be updated and re-built considering the experience of the trainees and trainers). The budget for this initiative will be 3000 $, the same as the initiatives of last year. In case we got financed, Ivana Ivanova and I can be the mentor of the winner of the Challenge.
3) Moreover, we can ask some budget for another training course about SDGs and open data/open software. Last year Codrina Maria Ilie was the winner and the training material is almost ready and will be released soon (it is about the computation of SDG indicator 9.1.1 using QGIS). The budget can be 3000 $, the same as last year and Serena Coetzee and I can be the mentor.
Obviously if you there is somebody who wants to offer her/himself as a mentor, they are more than welcome!
Please let me know if you have comments. If none, I will proceed with the proposal.
Bets regards,
Maria






Please pay attention to these two opportunities:

A new IJGI Special Issue
"State-of-the-Art in Spatial Information Science"
(deadline for submissions: 1 may 2019)


A new Transaction in GIS  Special Issue
"Open Source Geospatial Science, Software and Education"
(deadline for abstract submissions: 15 february 2019)



----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)
Tel. +39-02-23996242 - Mob. +39-328-0023867,  [hidden email]




 

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un
-- 
Cameron Shorter
Technology Demystifier
Open Technologies and Geospatial Consultant

M +61 (0) 419 142 254
_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un
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Re: Budget proposal 2019

Maria Antonia Brovelli

Thanks, Cameron. It is a pity that you can't contribute. I suggest, please, next time to explicit if you are simply advising or you are commenting as an active member of the committee in such a way that we can better organize our time and activities.

Have a good day!!

Maria 


Please pay attention to these two opportunities:

A new IJGI Special Issue
"State-of-the-Art in Spatial Information Science"
(deadline for submissions: 1 may 2019)


A new Transaction in GIS  Special Issue
"Open Source Geospatial Science, Software and Education"
(deadline for abstract submissions: 15 february 2019)



----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)

Tel. +39-02-23996242 - Mob. +39-328-0023867,  [hidden email][hidden email]

https://orcid.org/0000-0003-3161-556





 


Da: Cameron Shorter <[hidden email]>
Inviato: lunedì 21 gennaio 2019 21:47:14
A: Maria Antonia Brovelli; Nils Hempelmann; Bruce Bannerman
Cc: Hae-Kyong Kang; [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Oggetto: Re: [UN] Budget proposal 2019
 

I'm afraid I don't have the bandwidth to contribute. In line with principles of "Do-ocracy" my comments to should be seen only as advice, and should not hold as much weight as those volunteering to do the work.

Good luck, Cameron


On 20/1/19 9:19 pm, Maria Antonia Brovelli wrote:

This is something that I have no idea. I subscribed many years ago. Please write to OSGeo mailing list and ask.

Best,

Maria


Please pay attention to these two opportunities:

A new IJGI Special Issue
"State-of-the-Art in Spatial Information Science"
(deadline for submissions: 1 may 2019)


A new Transaction in GIS  Special Issue
"Open Source Geospatial Science, Software and Education"
(deadline for abstract submissions: 15 february 2019)



----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)

Tel. +39-02-23996242 - Mob. +39-328-0023867,  [hidden email]

https://orcid.org/0000-0003-3161-556





 


Da: Nils Hempelmann [hidden email]
Inviato: domenica 20 gennaio 2019 11:11:06
A: Maria Antonia Brovelli; Bruce Bannerman
Cc: Cameron Shorter; Hae-Kyong Kang; [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Oggetto: Re: [UN] Budget proposal 2019
 
Dear Maria. 
Who is responsible for the accounts? 
I am already waiting for the account since some weeks.

Cheers n. 

Envoyé depuis mon smartphone. 

-------- Message d'origine --------
De : Maria Antonia Brovelli [hidden email]
Date : 20/01/2019 11:06 (GMT+01:00)
À : Nils Hempelmann [hidden email], Bruce Bannerman [hidden email]
Cc : Cameron Shorter [hidden email], Hae-Kyong Kang [hidden email], [hidden email], [hidden email]
Objet : Re: [UN] Budget proposal 2019

Thanks. Please do it in next days as soon as you have a working OSGeo account.

Best,

Maria


Please pay attention to these two opportunities:

A new IJGI Special Issue
"State-of-the-Art in Spatial Information Science"
(deadline for submissions: 1 may 2019)


A new Transaction in GIS  Special Issue
"Open Source Geospatial Science, Software and Education"
(deadline for abstract submissions: 15 february 2019)



----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)

Tel. +39-02-23996242 - Mob. +39-328-0023867,  [hidden email]

https://orcid.org/0000-0003-3161-556





 


Da: Nils Hempelmann [hidden email]
Inviato: domenica 20 gennaio 2019 10:41:09
A: Bruce Bannerman; Maria Antonia Brovelli
Cc: Cameron Shorter; Hae-Kyong Kang; [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Oggetto: Re: [UN] Budget proposal 2019
 

Both proposals suits me.

I can't log in to edit the page my account is ```in a pending account request```

Thanks for the organization.

Cheers
nils


On 20/01/2019 08:32, Bruce Bannerman wrote:
Proposal 2 suits me best.

Proposal 1 is at 1am my time. I won’t be able to make it.

Cheers,

Bruce

On 20 Jan 2019, at 06:58, Maria Antonia Brovelli <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear All

thank you a lot for your great comments and suggestions. 

I suggest doing in this way.  As OSGeo is a partner of the UN Open GIS Initiative, given the fact that the Challenges of last year have given OSGeo good visibility - and many people have contributed to this success, I propose to go ahead with them. 


Hae-Kyong, you proposed a new challenge based on Spiral 3. In order to submit the proposal to OSGeo, I need to provide a description of the challenge. Can you send me it by Monday my morning? I want to submit the proposal of the budget on Monday at my lunchtime and therefore I need you to send the proposal before.  I give for granted that you want to volunteer as the mentor of the challenge (as you did in 2018), do you?


Moreover, Nils, Bruce, Cameron, and everybody who is now interested in contributing to the activities of the UN Committee with new projects: I propose to have a meeting for discussing the initiatives that you want to propose. 

With Serena, we defined two possible time slots. Please find details on the wiki page of the OSGeo UN Committee under Meeting January 2019  (https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/UnitedNations_Committee). 


Thanks to everybody. I'm looking forward to meeting you at the end of January.

Best regards,

Maria



Please pay attention to these two opportunities:

A new IJGI Special Issue
"State-of-the-Art in Spatial Information Science"
(deadline for submissions: 1 may 2019)


A new Transaction in GIS  Special Issue
"Open Source Geospatial Science, Software and Education"
(deadline for abstract submissions: 15 february 2019)



----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)

Tel. +39-02-23996242 - Mob. +39-328-0023867,  [hidden email]

https://orcid.org/0000-0003-3161-556





 


Da: UN <[hidden email]> per conto di Bruce Bannerman <[hidden email]>
Inviato: giovedì 17 gennaio 2019 21:33:51
A: Nils Hempelmann
Cc: [hidden email]
Oggetto: Re: [UN] Budget proposal 2019
 
Hi Nils,

OK by me.

However, I will need to insist that we use Chatham House Rule [1].

Cheers,

Bruce



On 17 Jan 2019, at 23:13, Nils Hempelmann <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear all 

Its nice to read this discussion. Would it make sence and be possible to have a video/telefon converence for a profund exchange? 
Dealing with very big organisations like UN needs multiple strategies. Its good that we are coming up with concrete proposals and alternative ideas. 

Cheers nils 


Envoyé depuis mon smartphone. 

-------- Message d'origine --------
De : Cameron Shorter <[hidden email]>
Date : 17/01/2019 12:34 (GMT+01:00)
Objet : Re: [UN] Budget proposal 2019

Hi Serena, which I acknowledge the value of your points, I'm inclined to agree with Bruce's points that the OSGeo volunteer organisation shouldn't be subsidising a funded organisations such as the UN (who I've heard are able to find money to purchase ESRI licenses).

It is hard to teach an organisation like the UN that they should pay to gain the value of Open Source if we keep diverting our budget toward giving them a free ride.

Warm regards, Cameron

On 17/1/19 7:48 am, Bruce Bannerman wrote:
Thanks for the more detailed information Serena.

I understand the issue of supporting young and not so young OSGeo volunteers. This is also behind the point that I was trying to make.

There is a principle here, that as a volunteer organisation OSGeo can’t afford to be subsidising other organisations’ use of open source. These organisations need to be encouraged to contribute back to the community, whether through funding, or in kind contributions of staff time and effort, etc.

However, I will not pursue my intervention further at this stage. I appreciate the work that this team is doing and do not wish to derail that effort and good work.

Kind regards,

Bruce


On 16 Jan 2019, at 22:48, Serena Coetzee <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Bruce,

thanks for the constructive comments.

OSGeo is a partner in the UN Open GIS initiative and, as partner, OSGeo has to support the project. Participation in the initiative is done by volunteers (from OSGeo) and we can't ask the volunteers to pay with their money. This is the reason for the first request. OSGeo partnering in the UN Open GIS initiative should benefit you and all other OSGeo members. Let us know if there anything that the person travelling to Sudan can do to also improve your case.

About the development of training material, this raises awareness of open source software for geospatial and contributes to capacity building in OSGeo. It is a way to support young OSGeo members. Such challenges are common place in industry. The mentors are working for OSGeo as volunteers, increasing the visibility of OSGeo within the UN and beyond. 

Regards,
Serena

Serena Coetzee (GPr GISc 1245)

University of Pretoria
Director: Centre for Geoinformation Science
Professor and Head of Department Geography, Geoinformatics and Meteorology
Geography Building 3-5, Hatfield Campus, Lynnwood Road, Hatfield, 0083, South Africa
email: [hidden email] · Web: www.up.ac.za/ggm · Mobile: +27 82 464 4294 · Tel: +27 12 420 3823


On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 2:16 AM Bruce Bannerman <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello Maria,

I do appreciate your passion towards this initiative and the outreach work that you do. 

However, I am very uncomfortable with the approach outlined in the proposal below.

The UN should appreciate the value of open source spatial software by now and be willing to contribute back to the open source community.

Therefore, I believe that the activities suggested below should be funded by the UN and not OSGeo.

Regarding the items in the proposal below:

Item 1)   If this is for a UN Project and they value OSGeo representation, then that should be a UN Project cost and not an OSGeo cost.

Item 2)   I’m not sure what this is, but I interpret it to be for the preparation of QGIS training material specific for UN staff. If so, then again this should be a UN funded activity. The UN may wish to view this as a voluntary contribution that they make to the QGIS Community in part recognition of the benefit that they are receiving from the use of the QGIS Open Source software. This is also an activity that could be undertaken by an commercial organisation that specialises in working with this type of open source software.

Item 3)  I’m not sure what this is, but it also sounds like an activity that would be for UN benefit. If so, then again, they should be paying.

IMO, we need to push back against the expectation that open source is free (as in free beer). There is always a cost to produce and maintain open source and I would like to see those who benefit from using the software to be encouraged to contribute back to the open source communities.

I have been working actively for many years within one of the UN Agencies and am making some real headway towards this agency accepting the value of an open source approach to a specific problem that they have.  I can’t discuss this publicly yet. I’m sure that you’ll appreciate that the wheels can move quite slowly at times as people become comfortable with what is in reality a new approach for them and they have internal processes that need to be followed.

If I have misunderstood the intent of the proposed items in your email, then I apologise in advance.

Kind regards,

Bruce




On 16 Jan 2019, at 06:03, Maria Antonia Brovelli <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear All
it is time to make the proposal to OSGeo Board for the activities of the UN Committee in 2019.
We have the UN Open GIS Initiative entering in its third year of activities; many people of the UN staff have been trained in QGIS and PostGIS (more than 100) thanks to volunteers of GeoForAll. 
Currently, there is the third edition of QGIS (Victoria Rautenbach chairing the initiative; Thomas Mueller and Cameron Green mentoring)and the second one of PostGIS (Ivana Ivanova chairing, Paolo Corti, Oliva Martin Sanchez, and Gregory Giuliani mentoring). 

About UN Open GIS Initiative the request will be:
1) support for attending a couple of project meeting and training - (one will be probably in South Sudan) 5000$
2) one UN OSGeo Challenge (similar to what we organized last year) to prepare a new training material course on PostGIS (the one we are using, which is a Boundless one, has to be updated and re-built considering the experience of the trainees and trainers). The budget for this initiative will be 3000 $, the same as the initiatives of last year. In case we got financed, Ivana Ivanova and I can be the mentor of the winner of the Challenge.
3) Moreover, we can ask some budget for another training course about SDGs and open data/open software. Last year Codrina Maria Ilie was the winner and the training material is almost ready and will be released soon (it is about the computation of SDG indicator 9.1.1 using QGIS). The budget can be 3000 $, the same as last year and Serena Coetzee and I can be the mentor.
Obviously if you there is somebody who wants to offer her/himself as a mentor, they are more than welcome!
Please let me know if you have comments. If none, I will proceed with the proposal.
Bets regards,
Maria






Please pay attention to these two opportunities:

A new IJGI Special Issue
"State-of-the-Art in Spatial Information Science"
(deadline for submissions: 1 may 2019)


A new Transaction in GIS  Special Issue
"Open Source Geospatial Science, Software and Education"
(deadline for abstract submissions: 15 february 2019)



----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Professor of GIS and Digital Mapping
Politecnico di Milano

P.zza Leonardo da Vinci, 32 - Building 3 - 20133 Milano (Italy)
Tel. +39-02-23996242 - Mob. +39-328-0023867,  [hidden email]




 

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un
-- 
Cameron Shorter
Technology Demystifier
Open Technologies and Geospatial Consultant

M +61 (0) 419 142 254
_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un
-- 
Cameron Shorter
Technology Demystifier
Open Technologies and Geospatial Consultant

M +61 (0) 419 142 254

_______________________________________________
UN mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/un